hmschoolmom22 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 she argues and disagrees about everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if I say "up" she says "down"....I mean truly everything is a disagreement - she even argues that she's not arguing!! I feel horrible saying this but I do not enjoy her company lately. Today, her sister was at a friends house so it was just the 2 of us(Dad was at work), we decided to play Wii together...it was torture for me! she was in my face, saying off the wall things, making noises, couldn't stay still when it wasn't her turn, and she never shuts up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no on around here can ever talk because she's ALWAYS talking!!! She watches Disney shows...Hannah Montanna, Suite Life of Zach and Cody, that kind of thing and I feel she's confusing real life with comedic TV shows, she smarts off at me and thinks it's funny...and her new comeback to me is "how RUUUUDE" which I HATE!!! I'm trying so hard to think of examples to give you and of course can not come up with any exact statements or conversations. Well, here's one example - this morning she comes in to our room at 8 am and pushes on me(I'm sleeping)and says, "Mom, you need to get up, I'm hungry" and I say "honey, I'm sleeping, I'll be getting up soon" "BUT MOM! I'm hungry!!! you need to get up NOW" - which of course causes me to sit up in my bed and pretty much lose my temper with her and tell her how utterly disrespectful she's being and that if she's hungry she knows where the kitchen is and she can certainly get herself a banana or some yogurt until Dad or I come downstairs. She huffs and puffs and says "how RUUUDE" and storms out of our room. Help! advice needed! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) Your morning example is horrifying. I agree that you need to put an end to this type of behavior. I'd start by eliminating all forms of video entertainment - TV, Wii, videos, anything and everything. I'd have a talk with your dd, and tell her what is acceptable behavior, and what is totally unacceptable. Let her know, calmly, what the consequence will be for unacceptable behavior (mouthing off, disrespect, arguing, saying "how rude," etc.). It's okay to tell her that when she behaves in such a disrespectful manner you don't want to be around her; she ought to know. I'm not sure what type of consequence you are willing to come up with, but I think I'd send her to her room alone for a good long while. The key is to be totally consistent. Get your dh on board, too. Let your dd know that it's your house, your rules. ETA: Oh, and if she disobeys you....for example, if you say something to her and she contradicts you or begins to argue, just say quietly but firmly, "Oh, I'm sorry, sweetheart, but you just argued. Time to go to your room." and take her there. Do not allow her to get a word in edgewise...just follow though. Do not engage her. Ria Edited January 26, 2009 by Ria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 :iagree: Good advice, Ria. I've noticed more combativeness in my 8 yodd, too. She has to learn to guard her tongue, and we will be working on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) She watches Disney shows...Hannah Montanna, Suite Life of Zach and Cody, that kind of thing and I feel she's confusing real life with comedic TV shows, she smarts off at me and thinks it's funny... Well, this one is easy. In my home, I would tell her that the Bible says "bad association ruins useful habits" (1 Cor 15:33). This means she simply may not watch those shows as she's not ready to watch them without taking on those traits. You can decide, in the future, if she may watch them on a limited basis. and her new comeback to me is "how RUUUUDE" which I HATE!!! New Rule: "You may not say that phrase again. If you do, there will be a consequence." Then dole out whatever is a reasonable consequence in your home. I'd probably have it include "Mom, I was wrong to say that phrase to you. Next time, I will not mouth off." Well, here's one example - this morning she comes in to our room at 8 am and pushes on me(I'm sleeping)and says, "Mom, you need to get up, I'm hungry" and I say "honey, I'm sleeping, I'll be getting up soon" "BUT MOM! I'm hungry!!! you need to get up NOW" - which of course causes me to sit up in my bed and pretty much lose my temper with her and tell her how utterly disrespectful she's being and that if she's hungry she knows where the kitchen is and she can certainly get herself a banana or some yogurt until Dad or I come downstairs. She huffs and puffs and says "how RUUUDE" and storms out of our room. This is REALLY bad on SEVERAL levels. She needs to make it up to you on top of apologizing for each inappropriate part of it (waking you, demanding your compliance, obnoxious comment). If she isn't sorry, she can still humble herself and say she was wrong. But the most important part would be to make it up to you. ETA the following: she argues and disagrees about everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if I say "up" she says "down"....I mean truly everything is a disagreement - she even argues that she's not arguing!! Disconnect and disengage. She may be in a bad habit and needs you to cut her off IMMEDIATELY when something starts. Don't argue back and forth. Say what you need to say and walk away. You might come up with a cue that means, "that is enough; no more; it's not up for discussion" if she's one to follow you to continue arguing. If she doesn't remediate immediately, she can go to her room until she can come out and say, "Mom, I was wrong for arguing with you. Next time, I will not argue." If it is when you tell her to do something, then she's back to 3yo level where she says "yes, mom" and obeys until that is the new habit. She can appeal AFTER compliance until it is the habit, then only when reasonable and not done to argue. Edited January 26, 2009 by 2J5M9K wanted to address one more thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I have to say that I LOVE the fact that we no longer get any of the "little kid soaps" here. This includes no Hannah Montana....and her other "tv friends." I never wanted to have them and I should have always said, "NO." You can do it....don't answer the door to the snotty friends! "Send them home." :-) Carrie:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen in CO Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 This is her childhood. These are the memories she will look back on. it isn't about you going batty. Its about her needing a different kind of attention. My 8yo is delightful. She is curious and questioning. She surprised me last week by making me breakfast in bed. We limit our tv, computer and video games - everyone does not just the kids. We do housework together everyday. I read to them for more than an hour every night. We spend time outdoors in all kinds of weather where young ones can expend some of their energy. We stress respect for each other. My 8yo has a very quick wit, but we don't hurt each other's feelings. She loves to have the last word in discussions, but we always make sure we listen at least as much as we talk. I love being with my 8yo - she is bright, funny, inquisitive, artistic, creative, and loving. Our relationship didn't happen overnight and you can't fix the relationship with your dd overnight. I'd start with shutting off the tv and video games and finding better ways for everyone to communicate with more love and respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Wow, this sounds amazingly like my ten year old son. He is obsessive/compulsive, and I tend to think that some of his behaviour is a loop he gets into and has trouble ending. He also (like most OC's) has control issues and some of it is his desire to control. I would agree with immediately curtailing all video viewing. If I think that mine is picking up behaviours from this area, I immediately do that, too. I also have to make certain that he isn't consuming too much sugar during his day (and he'll seek it in the most covert of places, rather than through obvious sweets/desserts, too) and that he's getting enough sound sleep at night. We can REALLY tell when there are disruptions in either of these two areas, as there were this past weekend when we were all out of town. Two late nights and he has been absolutely incorrigible. OY, I thought I was going to lose it before I could get him back home tonight...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldilocks Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) My 6 yo dd is very argumentative. We limit tv time (she has never seen the shows you referred to), I think it is just part of her personality. Some kids have immature ways of dealing with thier emotions. This is part of my dd's problem. I have been doing some reading on the subject lately and what I have discovered is that I have been taking everything too personally. If I can remain calm and try to look at the situation objectively I am better able to teach dd the proper words to say in a given situation or I am able to hold my tongue until she is calm enough to hear my guidance. It is soooo hard though. I came back to edit because I didn't say what I wanted to say, but I'm not sure how to say it..... I'm glad for Karen in Co and that she has a delightful 8 yo, I have one too. But some kids are just different. I think it is the emotional immaturity thing. My 6 yo acts just like my 3 yo and it is not like I have parented my children any differently. It is tough but I think the key is staying calm and teaching appropriate behavior each and every time. BTW I am giving myself this advice as I type! I am still working on it. Edited January 26, 2009 by Goldilocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmschoolmom22 Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 This is her childhood. These are the memories she will look back on. it isn't about you going batty. Its about her needing a different kind of attention. My 8yo is delightful. She is curious and questioning. She surprised me last week by making me breakfast in bed. We limit our tv, computer and video games - everyone does not just the kids. We do housework together everyday. I read to them for more than an hour every night. We spend time outdoors in all kinds of weather where young ones can expend some of their energy. We stress respect for each other. My 8yo has a very quick wit, but we don't hurt each other's feelings. She loves to have the last word in discussions, but we always make sure we listen at least as much as we talk. I love being with my 8yo - she is bright, funny, inquisitive, artistic, creative, and loving. Our relationship didn't happen overnight and you can't fix the relationship with your dd overnight. I'd start with shutting off the tv and video games and finding better ways for everyone to communicate with more love and respect. I have a 12 yr old dd also and this post could have been written by me when she was 8 yrs old...I think that is what makes this so hard - I feel as though I'm the same parent then as I am now, but yet, my dds are so extremely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datmama4 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I have to agree with some of the above answers which state that the TV could be a major part of the problem. We had a slight problem with this when my then-7yo son used to exhibit the "nobody likes me, I don't deserve to be a part of this family" during the VERY short time they were allowed to get Rugrats videos from the library. We realized he was quoting and imitating Chuckie, one of the characters on the show. We stopped those and reassured him that this was a lie and that God certainly thought he belonged in our family -- basically, was he calling God a liar? The behavior stopped. Our dd (who is now 8) was also starting to get a little smarty-pants mouth on her recently, and sometimes even non-confrontational/rude things like saying, "But...but...but..." when we'd ask her to do a chore or something she didn't want to do. We basically told her people only talk like that in the movies and that it wasn't cute at all and would only get her into trouble for not speaking like a normal person. She is generally a sweet little gal, but when she gets like that, I usually say something like, "Oh, you must be picking that up from [fill in friend's name or movie name]. I guess we'll have to limit how much time you spend seeing her/watching that/whatever." It corrects the behavior quickly. Not sure how to advise you on the morning wake-up event. I do know I'd never tolerate that from any of my kids. Most days I'm awake before they are, but when I sleep in, they do not bother me unless there is an emergency. Rude phrases around here are treated like swear words. Punishment or consequence for each time they are said. I hope this helps! Reading the other posts, it sounds as if you're getting some wise council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmschoolmom22 Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 thanks everyone!! I have a few questions... how do I go about removing the tv shows...I mean, I have a 12 yr old dd who handles the shows and always has very well...do I tell just my 8 yr old that she can no longer watch them but her big sister can...they watch tv together(they have very limited tv during the week). Actually they spend almost all of their time together and my 12 yr is a great role model for her little sister, she is very respectful, very caring, thinks of others first, etc...as a matter of fact, she puts up with quite a bit from her little sister and sometimes cries over being mistreated my her and will come to me asking why her sister treats her so badly. She can be very demanding and sometimes my 12 yr old has a hard time handling her. School is quite demanding with her also. She can not stand me to work with her older sister, she will come up with a million reasons to interrupt us, she wants my attention 100% of the time, I will try and read with her(even to her)she interrupts me, asks off the wall questions, every little thing that enters her mind - she has to say, I guess she has no control yet of these things at 8 yrs of age. Drama, always drama...white lies, stretching the truth, making mountains out of mole hills...what do I do about this? we have talked about the boy who cried wolf time and time again, we have prayed together about it, I've even heard her ask God to help her be a better person...she wants to tell everyone everything...example: The other day our puppy was very sick, she was throwing up in the house and having diarrhea, my oldest dd starting crying because it scared her I guess and she was very concerned. That afternoon while playing at the park with friends, my youngest dd tells the friends(various ages 8 to 12)that "Allison was bawling this afternoon when our puppy got sick, you should have heard her, she sounded like a baby" - needless to say, oldest dd was so hurt and embarrassed! why does she do these things? why does she feel the need to tell our business to everyone, she will tell the neighbors everything if they let her talk long enough. I know I'm rambling and I apologize for that, I'm just at such a loss. I'm having my dh read these posts in hope that he and I can learn something from all of you and we can improve our parenting or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumbledeb Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 :grouphug:This is what I would do: Give her as much one-to-one attention, love, cuddles and time as you possibly can, forcing yourself to not react when she irritates you. If you feel so irritated that you feel you are about to react it is time to switch the activity you are involved in. E.g. when you can't take it any more playing the Wii, say "Let's play Hide-and-Seek" and have as much fun as you can doing that. But keep yourself completely engaged with her absolutely as much as possible. Something my little ones love from time to time is cuddling up while I tell them the story of when they were born with as many details as you can think of. They know the stories very well, how I loved and wanted each one, how happy I felt when I first saw them, what we did when we got them home from the hospital for the first time . . . and so on. Also they like to hear the stories of how their names were chosen and the meanings of their names. They like to hear the stories of people who had the same names and how good, brave or whatever these people were. We have Bible stories every evening and keep it a fun, positive, calm and loving event. We also have Bible studies every morning, again in an uplifting, joyful, loving atmosphere. We pray every morning for Holy Spirit to display the Fruitage of the Spirit in our dealings with one another during the day, emphasizing love, joy, kindness and patience. When you are reading to her, try giving her something else to do at the same time. My 14yo, 9yo and 5yo like to sew while I read. They sometimes draw, colour, play with lego or practice handwriting while I read. She can help you as you do the housework and the cooking. Make it a treat for her to help you. Do housework for a set time then promise you will sit together with a cup of hot chocolate or something and chat. Or have a girly makeover and manicure, or do her hair in a special way. If you feel it would cause too much difficultly to stop her watching certain shows, you could sit and watch them together, pausing the show if possible to discuss issues and why you expect better/different behaviour from your children. You may find after watching several episodes with your full attention that you will have a lot to discuss with both your girls. I have a different take on the breakfast issue. If she is used to you preparing food for her it may not have occurred to her that she could help herself. I can sympathize with an eight year old being hungry at that time of the morning and feeling that she must be fed immediately. Maybe you could have a chat with her and give her some strategies for dealing with this - explain in advance what food she can help herself to if she gets up before you. At a separate time I'd have a gentle chat about respect within the family and appropriate speech. It's simply not her fault if she is copying inappropriate speech from TV shows you allow her to watch. (I'm not suggesting it is your fault either, I think it's shocking the kind of language the children use towards each other and their parents/teachers and so on on many of these show which are targeted at young children.) I think she needs lots and lots and lots of reassurance that she IS good, that God loves her and thinks she is good and that you love her and think she is good. Not just verbal assurance but a general feeling that you trust that she is good and will do the right thing and that when she gets things wrong you understand she made a mistake and that you forgive her and love her. Sometimes it can be hard for a younger sibling to cope with having a 'good' older sibling to live up to. We just read the part in 'Little House in the Big Woods' where Laura slaps Mary after a long build up of jealousy. I think a lot of younger siblings could identify with Laura's feelings there. A younger sibling has a lot to deal with one way or another and may need years of reassurance that they are just as loved and valued as their 'superior' older sibling. Even if you are absolutely certain that you never hint that your older daughter is in any way better than your 8yo, she will be noticing for herself the way things are. :grouphug: I hope you can find something of some use to you in this rambling epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I agree that the TV is going to have to go. What I would do is bring your 12yo dd in on the deal. Explain that you think that the TV is contributing to 8yo's difficult behavior, and ask her to help you out by giving up TV for a while. If 12yo is suffering, she might be willing to make the sacrifice--sweeten the deal with something else for her. Do they have different bedtimes? You could always tape the shows and allow 12yo to watch them after 8yo goes to bed, but this might create more conflict than it's worth. You're going to have to set consequences for all these problematic behaviors and enforce them every time; 8yos schoolwork may well suffer for a while, but once she's doing better, she'll be able to progress faster, I should think. Perhaps in school, you could set a timer for, say, 5 minutes, and tell her she has to let you work with 12yo uninterrupted until the timer dings. Then give her some attention when she successfully lets you work, and gradually lengthen the time. Also, I would say that you'll need to pick your issues one at a time. She won't be able to change every bad habit at once, so you'll have to pick the biggest one and work only on that for a few weeks until that's pretty well established, then move on to the next. My biggest advice is, set the consequences and deal them calmly. Don't get engaged in a spiral of emotion, don't take anything personally, don't get upset; just remember that you're the adult and she's the kid and she's the one with the issue, not you. Getting emotionally involved and caught up in the drama is fatal. (I have an 8yo girl, and while we don't have these exact issues, you can find my "helllllp me with my 8yo" thread from a week or so ago....:grouphug:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I'm another one with an extremely argumentative six year old and a pleasant, helpful 8 year old. We don't have TV, and that really helps with the mouth. I know since we tried TV for a year a few years ago. I saw how things went downhill so we got rid of our TV service. BTW, my kids do watch videos. I also have a dd13 who was a lot like dd6 when she was younger, not quite as argumentative, but VERY high maintenance from day one. Fortunately, she never watched American TV so she never really got the mouth. Now, however, she's wonderful. She has just calmed down and is a joy. But when she was little, she was honestly hard to be around. I don't really have any wisdom to share except to say, she probably will get better with maturity so do what you can, whatever that is, to not let your relationship suffer in the meanwhile. That's what I'm hoping for with my dd6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Another chiming in to encourage you to cut out the "junk food" tv shows altogether! Just say no! :) Although they are probably not the cause of your younger dd's behavior problems, they seem to be contributing to them, and further, there is really no constructive or educational value to those shows (imo, anyway). Your older daughter doesn't need to be watching them, either -- there are so many other healthy and creative things for both of the girls to be doing with their free time. You might get met with lots of whining and complaining at first, but that will pass with time and consistency. Hang in there, mom! You can do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I encourage you to look at my social group. This sounds just like DD and she is much better. Raising Godly Tomatoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 For consequences... I have a 11yob who loves to have a bed time half hour later than his younger brothers. Several weeks ago I let him know that when he argues, he loses late bed time minutes. Same with grumbling. I try to stay calm, warn him if it is just starting and he doesn't really have a bad attitude. I put my hand up like a stop sign, tell him that he is not to argue and then if he continues I let him know that he just lost 5 minutes off his bed time. If he continues on I tell him, now that is 10 minutes off of his bed time. Then I walk away so that it doesn't escalate. I write down on our dry erase board what his bed time is. I give him a few minutes to process this and cool off, then I let him know that he needs to get back to spelling or chores or whatever or sometimes I just say that he needs to let go of the attitude, it's time to move on. If it continues, off to his bed he goes for a time out. If he screams or fusses, he stays there longer. When he is calm and has been there a while, I call him to me, state my expectations and tell him it's time to move on. This all repeats. But for me, I just wont have him argue with me! I work hard for my family and they are not going to do that!! Aside from that long example of consequences, I give him lots of 1 on 1 and he requires (and receives) lots of hugs, pats on the back and smiles. But, he is heading into teen years! In life there are consequences... with a suffering economy, do you think bosses will put up with arguing or attitude? There will most likely be other people lined up looking for that job, so our children need to know how to behave respectfully and know how to work. And, I agree that the tv watching needs to change. If you want the girls to share tv time together, have them watch something different than the teen/preteen shows, like history or science or something that you want them to learn from... whatever they watch, they are learning just the same. Do you want them learning that? :) If not, it should change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Another plan that worked really well was my 5-point plan. When the child's behavior was out of line (you decide what that is), I said, "You have one behavior point. Take 5 minutes and think about ______." The next time their behavior was out of line (even if it was a different type of offense), I said, "You now have two behavior points. Take 10 minutes time out. Do you want to keep going?" At 3 behavior points, "You now have 3 behavior points. You have another 10 minutes time out and you are going to be 1/2 an hour early. Do you want to continue?" Next offense, "You have 4 behavior points. Your time out is immediate and for 30 minutes. You are still going to be 1/2 an hour earlier." When they got to 5 points, they were on an immediate 24 hour restriction - no playing, no tv, just sitting on their bed except for meals and bathroom use. I used this throughout the day all last summer to keep 4 boys in line - they just wanted to be wild and wound up all day and not listen. I posted a chart with consequences for each of the points and a list of what behavior would give the consequences. I kept that part simple - if you argue or disobey or excessively tattle, you get a point. If you hit or kick another person, you are automatically at 3 points. The second hit or kick meant 5 points, immediate restriction. Anyway, I thought I'd throw out what worked well for us last year. It got the boys' attention and I was able to follow through with it and not get upset. Hey, if they got the points, they were in their room... more quiet for the rest of us... Although it is much nicer when they are behaving and having fun with siblings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 :grouphug:This is what I would do: Give her as much one-to-one attention, love, cuddles and time as you possibly can, forcing yourself to not react when she irritates you. If you feel so irritated that you feel you are about to react it is time to switch the activity you are involved in. E.g. when you can't take it any more playing the Wii, say "Let's play Hide-and-Seek" and have as much fun as you can doing that. But keep yourself completely engaged with her absolutely as much as possible. I think she needs lots and lots and lots of reassurance that she IS good, that God loves her and thinks she is good and that you love her and think she is good. Not just verbal assurance but a general feeling that you trust that she is good and will do the right thing and that when she gets things wrong you understand she made a mistake and that you forgive her and love her. :iagree:This works. Level 1 in Effective Practical Parenting is Communicating Love Think of every way you can show love. Smile when you see her walk into the room. Show it in your eyes when you look at her, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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