TraceyS/FL Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 There is a thread on a computer board i frequent. The OP is trying to dream up educational ways to use an iPod Touch in the classroom. He can get a grant for them.... Frankly, short of using it for some sort of test input device - i'm finding it a bit over the top. I think less techno and more teaching needs to be going on.... Here is what he is thinking.... Some basic ideas I have: Games for +,-,%,x basic research e-books Virtual Fieldtrips Is there a remote app I could use on the smartboard that would allow it to work almost as a wireless keyboard/tablet?? Note he says they have computers in the classroom and access to a wireless laptop cart so each student could use their own laptop. My input has already been bashed. But i'm used to it over there. But i'm curious what you guys think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaid Dad Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I don't see any need for children to use computers below junior high age, whether at home or in school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I'm horribly conflicted. To the point where I almost feel that there are two separate "personages" in my mind, each with their own passionate (and diametrically) opposed position on the matter. Neither is overly open to compromise. And I'm in for a clash of the Titans. Aggggg!!!! Bill/Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Ohhhh, that is what we need - the Wii Broccoli game!!! My main thing is WHY? WHy do they need yet more screen time at school? Especially with a $300 gadget... i can't think of a need right now beyond more fun. There isn't a great depth of educational stuff for it either. And Bill - well gee, is either side going to get to share his thoughts?!?! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 In our family, we have a rule that kids don't wear shoes with velcro closures until they learn to tie their laces. And they don't get a digital clock in their bedrooms until they learn to read the analog version. So, I'm basically okay with technology as long as it doesn't displace anything else. None of the things you mentioned in your quote strike me as terribly out of line, ad long as the students aren't doing those things instead of something more worthwhile. In other words, if using a tech goodie makes drilling math facts more palatable, that's fine. In my mind, there's not virtue in slogging through something that is bound to be tedious the absolute most tedious way, just because it's "traditional." I question whether some of these ideas would actually work. The virtual field trips, for example. I have an iPod Touch, and that screen is frustratingly small to watch videos. In principle, though, I don't see what's wrong with using the available technology to put kids in touch with the world. We do a lot of real-life field trips in our homeschool, but there are some places it's not practical to visit in person. And I've done the virtual field trip thing here. I don't think it's a replacement for reading about these places and their significance, but it's a nice enrichment. I guess my most significant feeling is that a tech goodie is only as good as its content. In other words, an e-book isn't better (or worse) just because it's read on a screen. So, I think as long as the content is being carefully chosen for its quality (and not just because it's cool), there's nothing wrong with introducing some technology into the classroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 And Bill - well gee, is either side going to get to share his thoughts?!?! :D Oh. Well...one side thinks: use every technology at ones disposal to creatively teach subject matter bringing in visual and auditory materials with the click of a mouse or the wave of a hand. Let no medium go unused, or unexploited. It's a modern age, use technology for "good". This side lusts for a "Smart-board" , and wonders about programming DS math and logic games, believes there is something to be learned from "limited" (and outstandingly well done) television and videos. And that there are certain "skills" such as "keyboarding", researching via the internet, facility with interfaces, and other such skills that will be of value in a myriad of ways in the future. The other strongly prefers to raise an "analog" child in a digital age. He's particularly concerned with "how" a child's brain is "wired". He's concerned all the flashing lights, sounds, and gizmos promote something akin to "attention deficit disorder". That the attention span to read for hours on end could be destroyed by an excess of electronic simulation at an early age. Better to play outside, read a book, play an analog instrument, or be involved in almost any real activity, in preference to a video game. And that learning to type or surf the internet or reach "level 22" in a video game are "talents" one can acquire later (but a restful, calm, and well-reasoning mind is only built once). So there is a clash :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 A rabbit-hole, but we told our son from time he began to eat that "broccoli makes you strong". To this day he is an avid consumer of broccoli and other greens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Wow Bill, Wish the broccoli thing would work with my son! Oh well. Not that we keep the games and videos from my son, BUT if it was a choice that was only mine to make...we'd have no games or anything until children were at least in middle school. And, my children would never see movies or use computers in school...or calculators...or even do those comprehension tests that they have young children do...on computers. And, no little gadgets that you punch words into them and they tell you how to spell....And of course, no phones that you text message words, incorrectly...because it's faster. I guess the perfect spot would be untouched out in the country.... Reality is that we have computers and such..and my husband is playing the Wii with my son right now. (he's 5.5) Crazy....BUT, nothing of ours that is electronic is paid for out of taxes! Maybe I can at l get him to eat his broccoli....If he eats his broccoli...he'll get strong and be able to play the Wii. Carrie:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Wow Bill, Wish the broccoli thing would work with my son! We did (and still do) make an awfully large production of broccoli eating. Including "lustful" eating sounds (which have been a detriment to "table manners" truth told) and frequent squeezing of biceps: "OH MY, YOU ARE STRONG!!!. What makes you strong? Greens make me strong! Thanks right, and you're getting so strong I wanna go up to be strong like Daddy (Speechless with joy :001_smile:) On rare occasion if he's being a pistol (and I'm feeling "mean") I'll tell him he's getting too strong and that there'll be no more broccoli for him and from now on it'll be nothing but donuts and ice cream. It's not nice to make children cry, but this will do it around here. Bill (who's not sure what this has to do with electronics) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I have mixed feelings too. We are a techie family. I want my ds to learn about gadgets, we watch shows about upcoming technology, but... I still feel like the grounding needs to happen via the old-fashioned methods. Pencil, paper, learn the art of writing, etc. I think an I-pod touch is over the top for 4th graders. My ds has an I-pod and a laptop, but we haven't integrated them into everyday school work yet. I use a calculator almost every day as a adult. I don't allow my ds to use one in school. I want to train his brain to think, not to manipulate software. For me, that's the bottom line. Software changes all the time and can truly be learned fairly easily. He only has one brain (so far as we know) :tongue_smilie::lol: and I want him to learn it efficently instead of a computer. Paula: who does NOT force broccoli on anyone in my house. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I have mixed feelings too. We are a techie family. I want my ds to learn about gadgets, we watch shows about upcoming technology, but... I still feel like the grounding needs to happen via the old-fashioned methods. Pencil, paper, learn the art of writing, etc. I remember reading about students freaking out because the SATs are going to require "handwritten" essays, and that was a skill they did not possess. Paula: who does NOT force broccoli on anyone in my house. :D No one gets *forced* here either...we've just (heavily) manipulated "free-will" :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 My kids have always had access to educational computer games. This year we began computer training with dd (5th grade) in earnest. She is learning to use Word, and also learning to type. I think next I will let her have some fun creating with Print Shop, and eventually want to visit Excel, databases, Photoshop and web page design. I think nowadays computer skills are fundamental, and I consider them as basic as reading and writing. With that said, I think the school mentioned in the op already has all the hardware they need to teach these kids basic skills, and there is no reason to soak the taxpayers for any more gadgets. Oh, and I can usually convince even my most carnivorous child that a piece of broccoli will not kill him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 No one gets *forced* here either...we've just (heavily) manipulated "free-will" :D Manipulating free-will? :w00t::svengo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Manipulating free-will? :w00t::svengo: I like that one too. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Manipulating free-will? :w00t::svengo: We call it...."parenting" :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 We call it...."parenting" :D :lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Technology in the hands of a teacher who takes the time to master it is incredible in the classroom. "Mastering it" takes a lot of time outside of the classroom, outside of work hours. So, for some teachers it's a waste and for others it really expands what they can do and how much the kids learn. Does any class K-8 need electronic tools? No. But I've seen some people do really great stuff with them. And honestly, if you are a teacher in my district have a class size of 25 (up to grade 3) or 32 (grade 4 and above) and you know how to improve learning using technology I want you to have it. I don't see giving teachers who can use this stuff as soaking tax payers. The kids in my districts public schools are going to be adult very soon and I have to live with them. I want them to have the opportunity to benefit from this stuff and any other things a good teacher can give them, because I like interacting with competent, educated adults. So, if a teacher can get an ipod touch to keep 32 4th graders progressing in 5 different math levels and 6 different reading levels, better than other tools she's used then I think it's a good thing. I do think a teacher needs to demonstrate some competence with technology. It doesn't do any good to blanket every classroom with every new gadget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Sounds like he sees the grant and is looking for a need, rather than seeing the need and looking for a grant. I would have to agree with the pp who said this classroom had enough technology to master the (high school graduation requirement) skills already. I would also say that any halfway intelligent child can master all "normal workplace" programs within a month or two, at any time after about age 12. If you hand them a laptop at the beginning of 9th grade and require all projects to be done on it, by October, they will know Word, Powerpoint, etc. Why waste all this time in the younger grades too? Dd12 is upset that I won't let her use a calculator, let alone a computer, even though Lial's put a cute little picture of one next to about a third of all the problems in BCM. We use plenty of technology in our house and there is no doubt she'll be competent before she leaves, but she'll be competent in math too. It wasn't even discussed in 4th grade. Early screen use is bad for the eyes (See The Child and the Machine, sorry I don't remember who wrote it.) They are cutting funding around here, and have been unable to get a new junior high passed for the last 10 years in a neighboring town, even though the state is now threatening to condemn the old one. If there were any mention of a project like this, there would be an uproar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 The other strongly prefers to raise an "analog" child in a digital age. He's particularly concerned with "how" a child's brain is "wired". He's concerned all the flashing lights, sounds, and gizmos promote something akin to "attention deficit disorder". That the attention span to read for hours on end could be destroyed by an excess of electronic simulation at an early age. Better to play outside, read a book, play an analog instrument, or be involved in almost any real activity, in preference to a video game. And that learning to type or surf the internet or reach "level 22" in a video game are "talents" one can acquire later (but a restful, calm, and well-reasoning mind is only built once). I find myself agreeing with Bill (at least the above half) and I have to say that really deep down shocks me. It's kinda nice though. LOL. And yes, on the flip side, my DH would have been happy to have had one decently working computer in his 4th grade classroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsdrcook Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Read "The Dumbest Generation" by Mark Bauerlein and you won't want the kids to have any more screen time. American Academy of Pediatric says no more than 2 hours a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpidarkomama Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I don't see any need for children to use computers below junior high age, whether at home or in school. :hurray: Neither do I!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 A rabbit-hole, but we told our son from time he began to eat that "broccoli makes you strong". To this day he is an avid consumer of broccoli and other greens. Yabut, you aren't living in the house with the Diet Soda drinking king (see other thread on that) and makes no effort to try ANY veggies unless it's potatoes or corn. It's a losing battle around here at the moment...... Sigh...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 We call it...."parenting" :D :lol: I sure wish there was more parenting going on in the world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 Sounds like he sees the grant and is looking for a need, rather than seeing the need and looking for a grant. Bingo. He is. (i'm snipping you here in the following) I would also say that any halfway intelligent child can master all "normal workplace" programs within a month or two, at any time after about age 12. If you hand them a laptop at the beginning of 9th grade and require all projects to be done on it, by October, they will know Word, Powerpoint, etc. Why waste all this time in the younger grades too? I agree. We do do more here at home - but still on an informal basis and she writes on paper and reads real books. Dd12 is upset that I won't let her use a calculator, let alone a computer, even though Lial's put a cute little picture of one next to about a third of all the problems in BCM. We use plenty of technology in our house and there is no doubt she'll be competent before she leaves, but she'll be competent in math too. It wasn't even discussed in 4th grade. Actually, this cracks me up because we are doing Homesat for most of our subjects, so DD watches pre-algebra on her laptop. She still is making basic dumb math mistakes (left from a really poor 2nd grade experience), and doesn't even THINK about the calculator she has right there. Huh..... Early screen use is bad for the eyes (See The Child and the Machine, sorry I don't remember who wrote it.) I mentioned this point and got the, "it will always be a debate on wether it was really bad or not...... They are cutting funding around here, and have been unable to get a new junior high passed for the last 10 years in a neighboring town, even though the state is now threatening to condemn the old one. If there were any mention of a project like this, there would be an uproar. Same here. $27million coming from the budget this year - and more than that the following year. The parents won't know it's GRANT money, they will see school waste. Reminds me of the friend whose school spent $30,000 on each classroom for the smartboards - yet had to cut most busses because they couldn't figure out how to pay for it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I would have to agree with the pp who said this classroom had enough technology to master the (high school graduation requirement) skills already. I would also say that any halfway intelligent child can master all "normal workplace" programs within a month or two, at any time after about age 12. If you hand them a laptop at the beginning of 9th grade and require all projects to be done on it, by October, they will know Word, Powerpoint, etc. Why waste all this time in the younger grades too? They can if they are taught. DH frequently hires (high school educated) employees, and supplies them with laptops so they can do their jobs, only to find most of them barely know how to turn the thing on :confused: These kids don't even have basic competancy with the hardware they have already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 totally, absolutely unnecessary and a big potential time waster!!! C'mon, what is so wrong about paper and pencil, books and a chalkboard?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I think it is completely unnecessary and that using an iPod touch will thrill the kids for reasons entirely unassociated with learning. Use brains first to learn to think, is my view, before incorporating high tech gizmos. Since they already have computers in the classroom, having an iPod Touch would gild the lily. Plus, the screen is way too small to be useful in an educational setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Yabut, you aren't living in the house with the Diet Soda drinking king (see other thread on that) and makes no effort to try ANY veggies unless it's potatoes or corn. It's a losing battle around here at the moment...... Sigh...... No. No Diet (or non-Diet) Soda drinkers in this household. We're a beans and greens family here :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I don't see any need for children to use computers below junior high age, whether at home or in school. :iagree: well maybe a CD player for music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 How "techno" do you think a 4th grade classroom should be? I draw the line at Devo hats. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 :iagree: well maybe a CD player for music? How about "digital" recordings of "analog" music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I draw the line at Devo hats. :D Devo hats are "out". But tin-foil hats are "in" :D :auto: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 How about "digital" recordings of "analog" music? No kidding! CD's are SOOOOO 20th century :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plimsoll Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 We only use the computer for Word (composition and revision) and to view educational dvds we borrow from the library. The rest of our homeschooling is decidedly low-tech, but somehow my son is performing well above his grade level in all academic subjects. Perhaps because our classroom is filled with books instead of electronic gadgets? This from a family of genuine hard-reading computer geeks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Rittenhouse Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I have not read all replies, but here is my take. The technology available today to the 4th grade classroom will be out of date by the time these kids reach middle school and obsolete by the time they are in high school and adulthood. The skills a 4th grader needs to apply to any available technology can be taught with a pencil and paper. Reading, writing, and arithmetic do not need electronic gadgets and these basic skill can be applied to whatever the future brings. How many of us are still playing Ms. Packman on our Atari's and word-processing with WordPerfect on our Apples? We all learned these skills.... However, what I really need, as an adult... is more spelling, grammar and composition...pen and paper skills that transfer regardless of technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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