Does your state allow you to award a high school diploma? WWYD?

[Night Elf]

I live in Georgia and while I can tell my children they've graduated at the end of homeschooling it would not be considered an accredited diploma. There are homeschool friendly colleges who will work around it but they do so by having the student take the SAT II series of tests.

 

My question is: what do I do if my child doesn't want to go to college?

 

My oldest is 16 and this is the first year she's homeschooled. She's been in private and public schools until this year. She wanted to do Keystone because they offered an accredited diploma. Unfortunately, 5 months into the school year, she's not working very hard. She's only worked on 3 of the 6 classes and isn't even at the halfway point of those.

 

I grew up thinking a high school diploma would make/break your future. Her father and stepmom (public school teachers) have taught her the same thing. But now that she has the freedom away from public schools and her father, she's lost her self-motivation.

 

She wants to be a pastry chef. She's working in a gelato/chocolates shop and is learning how to prepare everything from scratch. She loves it. So she has an interest but not really a plan.

 

Realistically, I cannot force her to do academic work to finish her degree. Rather than taking a negative approach and taking away privileges, I'd prefer to take a positive approach to help her.

 

What do you think?

[Night Elf]

What about a GED?

 

I've been looking into that. First of all, the GED has a negative reputation. Second, if she took the GED and wanted to go to college/cooking school she'd have to wait until she was 18. The schools I've looked at specifically say that a student with a GED must wait until their graduating class is ready for college and cannot start earlier. I suppose this is to discourage kids from dropping out of high school to start college earlier.

 

My daughter is 16 months away from being 18 years old. I guess that isn't too bad. I just don't want her to do something she may regret later. It's tough.

[Pamela H in Texas]

You might check out the local private schools. Do THEY have an accredited diploma? Accredited by some entity that anyone knows anything about? In most areas, they are done by one of hundreds of accrediting agencies (or by no one at all). Your diploma would be accepted just as much as theirs are. And employers and such wouldn't know such information at all anyway. And really, look at public schools, in general. Does their accreditation mean much anyway? Not in terms of education, it doesn't.

 

Honestly, I just wouldn't worry about it. I'd issue a diploma so yes she has a diploma and go on with life.

 

I just re-read your OP though. I would not give a diploma if a student didn't meet the minimum graduation requirements of my homeschool. She needs to get her rear in gear. It is perfectly fine for those requirements to be catered (hee hee) for her individually. You can allow her work credit (many schools do that for 11th and 12th graders) but she still must get some basics done. The sooner she gets moving, the sooner she'll finish.

 

Anyway, so when she meets what you agree upon is what she must have for her diploma, issue her one.

 

I really don't buy into issues with non-accredited (or other-accredited) diplomas. I understand what you're saying about universities in your area (not the norm nationwide anymore), but it sounds like she is going other directions anyway. Also, half of her credits are from accredited schools, right? And if she decides to go to college, she might start at a community college where the real issue is "ability to benefit" for anyone over 18. And won't she graduate, officially, just after turning 18?

 

Does this make sense?

[Danestress]

anyway, because she apparently isn't doing the work to earn one.

 

I guess if you don't want to force (or manipulate) her to do the work, you need to tell her, "Okay, I guess at this point you are a high school drop out." She wouldn't be the first, and she can always decide later she wants a GED.

[Chris in VA]

My state doesn't allow us to issue a diploma and call it accredited. My son had to take the GED (actually taking it tomorrow and Wednesday--took the practice and did fine) in order to apply to Virginia Commonwealth U, his school of choice. I, too, was hesitant, b/c of the reputation, but it was the only way they'd give him a chance.

 

I'm not sure what I'd do in your case, except that maybe a meeting with the people at the school she wants to attend might be helpful in providing motivation. Maybe if she sees what she can do there (sees the equipment, sits in on a class, whatever) she will want to finish so she can attend. You could even ask them to help you motivate her--I know I'd be glad to have a motivated student, and wouldn't be above colluding with the mom a bit.

[chiguirre]

Does your local public school or cc offer food service vocational education? Your dd would still need to meet minimum academic subject requirements, but she might be very close to fulfilling them after 2 years of public hs. This wouldn't exactly be culinary school, but it's a first step and it wouldn't hurt her chances to go to a good school later.

[Mandamom]

What I have always suggested parents do is to consider their post high school plans and work backwards, whether they want to send their children to college if they want something else.

 

So, what is it that she wants to do after high school? Does she want to enter a trade/culinary school? If so, find out the requirements for entry and aim toward those? Does she just want to work? Than definitely go for the GED so that at the very least she has that. Might she consider community college? What is needed for entry?

 

I have some children that might not be driven toward college and my minimum is that they get their GED if there's even a chance they'll end up delaying college. A GED will make them more employable.

[LaxMom]

You can award a diploma, but it's not accredited. "Accredited" is an institutional process.

 

GED does not have negative connotations for homeschooled kids. The US military has very specific policy to not ding homeschoolers on the basis of having a GED, and every single Ivy League and state university (and those in between) has accepted homeschoolers, with or without an accredited diploma or GED. They are much more interested in the portfolio and test scores you submit with your application. Further, if she is university bound, she can always attend a local community college (no diploma necessary), knock out her Freshman requirements, and transfer with or without an Associates degree (no testing necessary) to a 4-year school.

 

In the past 20 years of professional work, I have never been asked for a copy of my high school diploma (prior to that, I didn't have one). Job applications ask if you graduated. Her answer would be "yes".

[Night Elf]

I just re-read your OP though. I would not give a diploma if a student didn't meet the minimum graduation requirements of my homeschool.

 

Because my other 2 children are younger, I haven't really had a need to figure out what I'd consider the minimum requirements. She spent 9th and 10th grade in public school and did very well. She is past me in mathematics and I did graduate from a high school. Here is what she's taken so far:

 

9th grade:

World Literature

Algebra I

World History

Directed Study (gifted research & writing)

Honors Biology

Phys. Ed/Health

Personal Fitness

 

10th grade:

American History

American Literature

Honors Chemisty

Algebra II

Geometry

Nutrition & Wellness

Latin I

 

She's currently enrolled at Keystone in:

Environmental Science

American Government

British Literature

Spanish I

Marketing (hasn't started)

Fine Arts (hasn't started)

 

She knows I'm asking for opinions so will probably read the responses with me. Thanks ladies!!

[bettyandbob]

You stated she asked to do Keystone. I'd tell her that since she chose it and you supported her by paying for it, if she doesn't finish the courses then the only option is to enroll in the local high school.

 

That said, I know nothing of Keystone's requirements. I am familiar with some other online programs and have noticed and witnessed students involved. In some of these programs kids who are smart can finish a course within 2 weeks. Sometimes kids will procrastinate until a serious deadline looms and then work night and day to finish. This fall, I knew a student who just wanted to be done with school. So, she started her senior classes in September, focused absolutely and finished with an accredited diploma by November. Some spread the work out, some get it all done at the beginning and some wait until the last minute.

 

I'm wondering if your district offers a culinary training program. Mine does. By junior and senior year the students have only 2 or 3 academic classes and 3-4 periods of culinary training daily.

 

I, personally, would not be comfortable without accredidation or graduation, unless I was certain my child was going to get at least an AA from community college right after high school.

[Peek a Boo]

GED does not have negative connotations for homeschooled kids. The US military has very specific policy to not ding homeschoolers on the basis of having a GED, and every single Ivy League and state university (and those in between) has accepted homeschoolers, with or without an accredited diploma or GED. They are much more interested in the portfolio and test scores you submit with your application.

 

I'll have to disagree w/ the GED's reputation.

 

This was a hot button issue a few years ago in NY: a memo from the State Ed Dept found its way to the homeschool circuit about how they [the SED] wanted to find SOME WAY for the juvenile delinquents/ dropouts to get an actual diploma BECAUSE of the negative connotation of the GED.

 

So here they were, telling homeschoolers to 'just get a GED', when they didn't even hold the GED in that high regard for juvenile delinquents.

There was also some concern about certain scholarships not being available if you had a GED.

 

I'm sure that colleges and the military aren't supposed to treat GED'ers any less, but there's still a negative connotation associated w/ it. I'd skip the GED and go straight to the portfolio.

 

Otherwise, I agree that 'accredited' isn't all that and a bag of chips, and yeah, the portfolio seems to be what they are most interested in. In TX we can award a diploma, but we're not accredited.

 

If she's interested in a Culinary school, maybe talk to them about visiting the campus and sitting in on some fun classes? That might spur some motivation. She might even be able to do some dual credit. What does the college expect to see? What about her employer? could she go further w/ a diploma? higher pay/ promotions? Do you know what the state high school diploma requirements are? I've noticed that my requirements are usually higher than what an 'accredited' diploma requires....

 

Another option might be 4-H --she could knock out some credits and get scholarship money turning her coursework into a cooking/ speaking/ science project.

 

 

good luck :)

[Nestof3]

My son graduated high school 6 months late b/c he worked almost full-time through high school (to pay for college, save up for downpayment on house, etc.), and when he applied at our local community college (another way to save money), no one even asked for a high school diploma -- b/c he was 18. I have his transcript ready if anyone wants to see it, but he started today, and all is fine.

 

When he transfers to a 4-year college, no one will even know he was homeschooled.

 

So, she can always start off in community college if she changed her mind about college.

 

But, there may be a time in her life that she would need a diploma (for example, working for someone else), so I personally would still make sure she finished high school. But, I cannot tell you what to do.

 

You could tailor her studies to help out with the credits and such.

[LaxMom]

I'll have to disagree w/ the GED's reputation.

 

This was a hot button issue a few years ago in NY: a memo from the State Ed Dept found its way to the homeschool circuit about how they [the SED] wanted to find SOME WAY for the juvenile delinquents/ dropouts to get an actual diploma BECAUSE of the negative connotation of the GED.

 

 

There is a negative connotation. It is associated with delinquents and dropouts. The military and colleges, however, understand that there is no "official" body in most states to offer a diploma for homeschoolers and that the only such diploma they are likely to have available is the GED... or one that is akin to a note from their mommy. That being said, I think a GED would be superfluous for a college-bound homeschooler, and I agree that focus should be on the application portfolio. To enter the military, however, one still needs a state-recognized diploma.

 

And, as nestof3 pointed out, community colleges, like job applications, have a check box to indicate whether you graduated. They don't ask to see the diploma.

 

Actually, with all this talk... (duh, sometimes all four of my working synapses just gel together) Why doesn't she enroll in the hospitality / culinary arts program at the local community college?

 

Hypothetically speaking, of course, she could easily address the grade 11/12 requirements by taking CC classes (my eldest did not go to HS at all her junior or senior year because of this) while she also gets ahead in the path she would like to take. Would there be something preventing her from doing that?

[katilac]

I'll also chime in as saying that I think the GED does have quite negative connotations. If a student is heading off to college and has the transcript and test scores to get in, then it's of very little import. It matters much more to students who are NOT going on to college, like the OP's dd.

 

In my area, the big employers offer quite a few job training programs. A person can start with no experience and work their way up to a really good job, but these programs almost all require a high school diploma. A GED does not qualify you, and yes, you do need to provide a copy of the diploma.

 

So, it can matter a great deal on both a perceptual level and a practical level. If she decides to stick with the culinary arts, the school/job she is interested in may or may not require a diploma. The problem is, what if a great opportunity occurs that does require it? She will lose it.

 

I think you are correct that, at this point, you cannot FORCE her to finish. I would lay out the repurcussions for her and make it very clear that she is responsible for the decision she makes, and that you would far prefer her to finish.

 

Also, I would remind her that non-grads do NOT get graduation gifts, :D

[Ellie]

She doesn't have to have an "accredited" diploma. Most parents issue high school diplomas to their dc without giving "accreditation" a second thought; hundreds of thousands of homeschooled grads have gone on to adulthood without an "accreditated" diploma. There are very, very few situations where accreditation counts for a thing.

 

As your dd is discovering, even a high school diploma may or may not be a necessity at all.

 

You could help her come up with a plan. If she likes doing the chef thing, you and she could figure out how she could launch her career in that field, and when she has taken certain steps, you can graduate her. Your diploma will be legitimate, and it will actually mean something.

[datmama4]

I don't have a whole lot of original wisdom to offer here, but I do agree with a few of the other posts: if she isn't doing the work, then she doesn't "officially" graduate. In PA (where I am), we have an accredited diploma program, where we follow certain requirements in order to obtain a general, academic, or honors diploma for our homeschool grads; i.e., x-many years of math, science, English, etc., and a certain number of credits per year for the four high school years.

 

Perhaps you could look at the requirements for other states and try to guide your daughter toward those minimum subjects in order to help her to finish well. If she finishes, she graduates, and most likely no one will ever ask to see a diploma (the only time I've shown mine to anyone was as part of PA's requirement when filing the initial hs affidavit for my oldest child).

 

Sadly, there is a negative connotation to the GED, whether people admit it publicly or not -- it implies that the person has "quit" at some point and changed his mind later in life, or was required to complete the GED in order to further his job status or education. It doesn't give the image of someone voluntarily taking the test.

 

I'm sure with your concern about this, a do-able solution will be able to be worked out.

 

 

Lynda

[Night Elf]

I'm wondering if your district offers a culinary training program. Mine does. By junior and senior year the students have only 2 or 3 academic classes and 3-4 periods of culinary training daily.

 

Our local school district? They do offer culinary classes as part of their vocational tech diploma program. But it's public school and requires the student to attend full-time. There is no part-time school in Georgia. She left school due to anxiety issues so going back really isn't an option.