S/O psych and math; non math majors

[Janeway]

S/O, BA Psychology and Mathematics.
 

BA in "International Studies with concentration in Business and Econ," "Professional and Technical Writing," "Integrative Studies"

Son is in a complete lock down emotionally about doing math. So in looking for degrees that have little math but look employable, these are the top three degrees son is currently looking at. Integrative studies is a major that I think sounds bad, in my opinion, and I could be completely wrong, but he can pick 3 areas to focus on, which he would choose business for one of those areas. All these degrees offer enough space in electives to take some things that might build some skills. Any feedback on these? 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Janeway

[lewelma]

I'm no expert, but thought I would at least get the conversation going.....

I'd be concerned with any writing degree given how quickly AI is moving.

My nephew is in international studies, but to get a good job, you need a second language, preferably one in high demand. He has learned Arabic. 

I don't know what integrative studies is. Is this well know in the USA?  If not, employers may not know what it is either.

 

[Faith-manor]

As far as writing, my eldest son graduated with a degree in English and Creative Writing. He is not making great money, but he is doing what makes him happy. He is an editor, work from home. But, he was able to get his foot in the door in that industry right away post college because he was able to be the student editor of more than one academic journal at his college, and was already a published author with a major publisher by the time he graduated. In addition, he had numerous academic papers published in peer reviewed journals around the country prior to graduating. He began that trajectory, really pushed forward, from the beginning because he knew his heart's desire was not a very high paying or marketable degree.

I don't know what integrative studies is. I do know a couple of international studies majors who are studying at least one foreign language in order to increase their chances of employment.

[regentrude]

"Integrative studies" sounds like a cobbled together consolation degree for students who couldn't hack it in any rigorous major. I'd stay far away from that.

Technical writing is still in demand, despite AI; our school is expanding its program. I would make sure to combine it with a focus in digital marketing.

International Studies has great potential for students who speak multiple languages, especially highly sought after ones. Good feeder for law school, and diplomatic jobs. I would, however, imagine that in this field the university matters a lot; graduates from prestigious schools get the great jobs. Without foreign language skills, however, I don't know if there's any use for that degree.

Edited June 27, 2023 by regentrude

[EKS]

54 minutes ago, regentrude said:

"Integrative studies" sounds like a cobbled together consolation degree for students who couldn't hack it in any rigorous major. I'd stay far away from that.

Yes--I suspect it is the same thing as what is called "liberal studies" elsewhere.  Here is an example: https://degrees.apps.asu.edu/bachelors/major/ASU00/LABLSBLS/liberal-studies?init=false&nopassive=true

[Katy]

The thing is, math isn’t a talent. It’s a skill. A math phobia usually means he missed something fairly simple in middle school, probably to do with fractions, before algebra. Once he grasps whatever that is, math will be “easy” for him. Or as easy as anything you have to actually learn and not BS your way through is. 

I would gently but strongly suggest he work through his math phobia by studying for 30 minutes per day on something low pressure and free like Khan Academy. I heard of an adult who dropped out in 3rd grade who went back and taught himself math by studying 3 hours per day on khan until he could pass all the engineering courses. All his life he’d been called dumb, but he wasn’t dumb, he just lacked the skills so he got them. Chances are if he spent 3 hours a day fixing his math schools he could major in anything he wants. The “easiest” high paying job is generally something like MIS or CIS, an information systems management degree that’s generally mostly business and only a bit of programming. 

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

The thing is, math isn’t a talent. It’s a skill. A math phobia usually means he missed something fairly simple in middle school, probably to do with fractions, before algebra. Once he grasps whatever that is, math will be “easy” for him. Or as easy as anything you have to actually learn and not BS your way through is. 

I agree to some extent. Some students do have legitimate dyscalculia.
But yes, in most cases math difficulties can be traced back to lack of mastery of fundamental prealgebra and basic algebra, problems often caused by poor teaching in the middle grades. 

[SKL]

I looked up the integrative studies degree ... it looks like the "bachelor of general studies" that I got back in the 1980s.  I had been pursuing an education degree for 2.5 years when I changed my mind and decided I wanted to prepare for law school.  The BGS was recommended as it would use the courses I already took, and I could choose additional courses that seemed useful.  If a person was going to try to impress in a job interview or a competitive tech grad school admissions office, a BGS / Integrative Studies probably wouldn't be so hot.  😛

[Katy]

Absolutely, math learning disability exists. 

[EKS]

17 minutes ago, Katy said:

Or as easy as anything you have to actually learn and not BS your way through is.

🤣

[2squared]

I’ll put in a plug for accounting. It’s not a huge $ career, but it’s pretty solid….and very little actual math required. I’m hiring 4year college degrees (so not able to obtain CPA) in a LCOL area at $60k. My senior accountants top out at about $90k.  I’m a senior accounting manager making $150k in the same LCOL area with nothing more than business math. Strong accountants know accounting rules (debits, credits, etc) and are logical thinkers. 
 

I think one of the secrets to “making it” financially is to figure out a way to make higher salaries in LCOL areas. I do that by working in a skilled discipline for a large company in a rural area. Dh does that with his law degree in the same rural area. The legal field is over saturated except in rural areas.  

[gardenmom5]

29 minutes ago, Katy said:

The thing is, math isn’t a talent. It’s a skill. A math phobia usually means he missed something fairly simple in middle school, probably to do with fractions, before algebra. Once he grasps whatever that is, math will be “easy” for him. Or as easy as anything you have to actually learn and not BS your way through is. 

I would gently but strongly suggest he work through his math phobia by studying for 30 minutes per day on something low pressure and free like Khan Academy. I heard of an adult who dropped out in 3rd grade who went back and taught himself math by studying 3 hours per day on khan until he could pass all the engineering courses. All his life he’d been called dumb, but he wasn’t dumb, he just lacked the skills so he got them. Chances are if he spent 3 hours a day fixing his math schools he could major in anything he wants. The “easiest” high paying job is generally something like MIS or CIS, an information systems management degree that’s generally mostly business and only a bit of programming. 

This.

1ds had a pinched nerve in his spine, and would miss chunks of school at a time off and on for years before it was properly diagnosed and treated.  He'd missed math chunks.  (the math curriculum our district used exacerbated things - other school districts were suing the publisher.) He eventually dropped out of math after statistics in high school.  The others easily did introductory calculus. (the highest math subject offered.)
He came to me one day and announced he wanted to do aeronautical engineering.  um, you know you need math, right?
He went onto Kahn Academy and started over at first grade math.  Within five months, he tested into calculus and did a transfer MechEng degree program at a community-college (since their students had to meet the requirements of the ABET certified state universities, it met the standards even if they didn't have formal ABET recognition.)

a friend has been unimpressed with many middle and high school math teachers she's met over the years. In her experience, the good ones get the higher level math classes (they're more "fun") and the bad ones get the lower level classes (and kids drop out because they're not understanding.)  She is a middle school math teacher . . . She likes this age group.
 I've also been around long enough with kids in public school and changing math curriculum, that curriculum matters more than people realize.  1dd did higher math in her sleep.  She had two math teachers she learned to completely ignore and just do the assignments.  (one was fired.) After she went through, they changed the curriculum used.  2dd loved math, wanted to major in math (she majored in chemistry), had a hard time with high school math (she was still a top student).  I told her to have 1dd help her.  1dd was cursing that math text book up one-side and down the other. She just ignored it and taught her how to do it.   

[gardenmom5]

19 minutes ago, 2squared said:

I’ll put in a plug for accounting. It’s not a huge $ career, but it’s pretty solid….and very little actual math required. I’m hiring 4year college degrees (so not able to obtain CPA) in a LCOL area at $60k. My senior accountants top out at about $90k.  I’m a senior accounting manager making $150k in the same LCOL area with nothing more than business math. Strong accountants know accounting rules (debits, credits, etc) and are logical thinkers. 
 

I think one of the secrets to “making it” financially is to figure out a way to make higher salaries in LCOL areas. I do that by working in a skilled discipline for a large company in a rural area. Dh does that with his law degree in the same rural area. The legal field is over saturated except in rural areas.  

we've encouraged all of our kids to do college,

but dh is also talking about how there is a huge demand for HVAC people, and they can make six figures.

[2squared]

18 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

we've encouraged all of our kids to do college,

but dh is also talking about how there is a huge demand for HVAC people, and they can make six figures.

We talk about that too, but I don’t see my kids headed in that direction. I worry about the physical stress of the Trades. Now that I am in the latter half of our lives, I am acutely aware of my physical limitations. 

[Faith-manor]

3 hours ago, 2squared said:

We talk about that too, but I don’t see my kids headed in that direction. I worry about the physical stress of the Trades. Now that I am in the latter half of our lives, I am acutely aware of my physical limitations. 

That is where I am at. It is one thing to be in trades in a large construction firm with the opportunity to move into management when the rotor cuffs, knees, and back give out in the mid 40's which often happens in trades. But a very bad situation when one works for self or a small business because there isn't anyway to keep working and not continue busting up the body. I do think automotive seems to have enough lifts, hoists, speciality tools, etc. that a person's body might last a good bit longer. The other issue with self employment and small business employment tends to be health insurance and retirement accounts. Lots to consider.