Wahl’s Protocol

[Spryte]

Anyone using this? Want to share thoughts, experiences? Did you ramp up quickly or go slowly?

Any links for meal plans, tips, etc would be appreciated. I don’t watch YouTube videos, so anything I can read is a personal preference.

Is the cookbook helpful? The app is a bit pricey, but curious if that is beneficial, too. It’s pretty tempting.

[Jean in Newcastle]

https://www.verywellhealth.com/reasons-to-try-the-wahls-protocol-for-ms-5218077
 

I didn’t get the book, but I was doing something very close to this. (I still eat keto/paleo with lower inflammatory foods). I reacted badly to the fasting and have gone back to eating regular keto or paleo meals.  For me, it’s all about regulating my blood sugars. Nothing has changed my fibromyalgia. 

[Katy]

I tried it maybe 10 years ago, before I figured out that saturated fat, too much protein, &  histamine are terrible for me.  I got rapidly worse and it was obvious.  I have a friend who it helped some with MS, but she's not in remission.

[SHP]

Hmm that diet looks a lot the crazy crap I was told to eat by the first nutritionist. I didn't even bother trying it since most of it was counter to my actual needs so no clue if it works. I would be concerned about heart health and wouldn't touch it if there are any GI issues. 

 

[Pawz4me]

25 minutes ago, SHP said:

wouldn't touch it if there are any GI issues. 

 

QFT

[Jean in Newcastle]

Eating low (or no) grains or dairy, lots of non-nightshade veggies and lean (notice I put that in there) protein isn't a bad diet.  I think that people need to experiment to see what their body can handle. 

I've gone on a number of 3 month trials of diets.  For example, I went off nightshades totally for 3 months.  In my case I found that it depends on the nightshade and it depends on the frequency.  I can enjoy certain nightshades perhaps once a week.  I ended up adding some back in because the benefit wasn't enough to cut them out totally and I still get the benefit from only eating them on occasion.

I've naturally gone mostly no grain because of being celiac but I do find that my digestion benefits from my vegan flaxseed 1/2 muffins that I eat daily.  I also get a lot of fiber from veggies.  I eat low fruit but do berries daily.

I tried intermittent fasting for 3 months.  I had severe bouts of nausea that lasted the entire 3 months.  And my blood sugars went up and not down.  I felt that three months was a decent time to see if bad effects were transitory or not.  I ended up stopping on the advice of my naturopathic doctor.  But of course there are tons of other people who swear by it and seem to do well on it. 

[BlsdMama]

I did Wahl’s Level 3 for a year-ish. The weight poured off of me. I wasn’t 120-125 in high school (5’6”) so it was pretty shocking. Dr. Wahl herself told me not to do her diet, or at least not Level 3. ALS is hyper-metabolic and not known to be autoimmune. I’m planning on going back to Level 1.

 

 If you’rea big woman start with getting in nine cups of veg 3/3/3. Of small six cups - 2/2/2. By focusing in on getting in the veg and the fat. Then start weeding out. You won’t be hungry and the cravings will pass in about 2.5 weeks for the most part. Use the Carb Manager app. Keep frozen raspberries for afternoon emergencies. 

[GoVanGogh]

I have the book and have read parts of it. I was interested in it for my Parkinson’s. But I was turned off by the fact that she, in one portion of one of her books, blames her MS on being vegetarian. I am following Dr Fuhrman and have been having very good results with reducing inflammation. 

[SHP]

10 minutes ago, GoVanGogh said:

I have the book and have read parts of it. I was interested in it for my Parkinson’s. But I was turned off by the fact that she, in one portion of one of her books, blames her MS on being vegetarian. I am following Dr Fuhrman and have been having very good results with reducing inflammation. 

Seriously?! She blames being vegetarian. That is a huge red flag. I was already put off by it being something she discovered for herself that is she monetizing. The little I read really reminded me if the stuff I was given

[SHP]

12 minutes ago, GoVanGogh said:

I have the book and have read parts of it. I was interested in it for my Parkinson’s. But I was turned off by the fact that she, in one portion of one of her books, blames her MS on being vegetarian. I am following Dr Fuhrman and have been having very good results with reducing inflammation. 

Do you have a link you would suggest for starting to learn a out Dr. Fuhrman's diet?

[Selkie]

2 hours ago, SHP said:

Hmm that diet looks a lot the crazy crap I was told to eat by the first nutritionist. I didn't even bother trying it since most of it was counter to my actual needs so no clue if it works. I would be concerned about heart health and wouldn't touch it if there are any GI issues. 

 

Increased risk of cancer would be a concern as well.

[Spryte]

So, it’s not for me, but for someone else in the household. Doc recommends 9 cups of veggies per day (3 dark leafy/3 sulfur rich/3 colorful), lean protein (poultry and fish), no gluten or dairy, organic, whole foods . I think it’s like the Level 1 of Wahl’s.  It’s not too far off from our usual plan since we already do GF, mostly DF. Not cutting out nightshades, legumes, etc.

Trying to meal plan for 9 cups of veggies in the right proportions, though. I really need some ideas.

[Selkie]

13 minutes ago, Spryte said:

So, it’s not for me, but for someone else in the household. Doc recommends 9 cups of veggies per day (3 dark leafy/3 sulfur rich/3 colorful), lean protein (poultry and fish), no gluten or dairy, organic, whole foods . I think it’s like the Level 1 of Wahl’s.  It’s not too far off from our usual plan since we already do GF, mostly DF. Not cutting out nightshades, legumes, etc.

Trying to meal plan for 9 cups of veggies in the right proportions, though. I really need some ideas.

We eat more than 9 cups a day and keep it pretty simple - huge salads, lots of steamed and roasted veggies, and whole food plant based recipes that are naturally high in veggies. Green smoothies are a great way to get lots of veggies in, too.

[Jean in Newcastle]

20 minutes ago, Spryte said:

So, it’s not for me, but for someone else in the household. Doc recommends 9 cups of veggies per day (3 dark leafy/3 sulfur rich/3 colorful), lean protein (poultry and fish), no gluten or dairy, organic, whole foods . I think it’s like the Level 1 of Wahl’s.  It’s not too far off from our usual plan since we already do GF, mostly DF. Not cutting out nightshades, legumes, etc.

Trying to meal plan for 9 cups of veggies in the right proportions, though. I really need some ideas.

My grocery store sells a “stir fry mix” of  veggies in the produce section. It has onions, carrots, celery, broccoli, yellow squash, bell peppers, zucchini, sugar snap peas, sometimes cauliflower, sometimes bok choy. I use it in stir fries with a bit of lean protein. Or I chop it finely and throw it into a pot of soup. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Jean in Newcastle
Typo

[SHP]

15 minutes ago, Selkie said:

We eat more than 9 cups a day and keep it pretty simple - huge salads, lots of steamed and roasted veggies, and whole food plant based recipes that are naturally high in veggies. Green smoothies are a great way to get lots of veggies in, too.

This

[dsmith]

I did level 2 for a while. I did have less fatigue, but I can't say it helped with any other MS symptoms. I also lost weight, about 20 pounds. I kept the protein low - at about 12%. It bothered my stomach a lot at higher amounts. I also did more like 7 cups of veggies. Luckily 2 cloves of garlic counts as one cup of sulfur veggies! Now I'm transitioning to OMS, especially after my brother died of esophageal cancer. I've also been taking LDN, and after 7 months my fatigue is mostly gone, as well as the nerve pain in my left leg. I barely have any spasticity also. In fact the last 2 weeks I've been logging about 12,000 steps a day while we are emptying rooms for painting and renovations, so lots of lifting, going up and down stairs, etc. Heat intolerance is better, too. 

I know there is some controversy with Dr. Wahls about one of her treatments -  I think she was on one of the chemotherapy-type drugs? I don't remember... Some think that may account for her improvements, not just diet. I was turned off when she started charging for everything, and doing a lot of affiliate marketing, selling supplements, etc. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

36 minutes ago, dsmith said:

I did level 2 for a while. I did have less fatigue, but I can't say it helped with any other MS symptoms. I also lost weight, about 20 pounds. I kept the protein low - at about 12%. It bothered my stomach a lot at higher amounts. I also did more like 7 cups of veggies. Luckily 2 cloves of garlic counts as one cup of sulfur veggies! Now I'm transitioning to OMS, especially after my brother died of esophageal cancer. I've also been taking LDN, and after 7 months my fatigue is mostly gone, as well as the nerve pain in my left leg. I barely have any spasticity also. In fact the last 2 weeks I've been logging about 12,000 steps a day while we are emptying rooms for painting and renovations, so lots of lifting, going up and down stairs, etc. Heat intolerance is better, too. 

I know there is some controversy with Dr. Wahls about one of her treatments -  I think she was on one of the chemotherapy-type drugs? I don't remember... Some think that may account for her improvements, not just diet. I was turned off when she started charging for everything, and doing a lot of affiliate marketing, selling supplements, etc. 

LDN has done more for me than any diet. 

[Selkie]

Dr. Brooke Goldner's cellular repair protocol has helped MS patients. She suffered terribly from lupus for years, until her dh came up with a nutritional protocol that put her lupus in remission for going on twenty years now. It is mostly veggies with a bit of fruit and lots of omega 3's from flax and chia.

She puts all her information out there for free, on her website and social media. She does Q & A's every Wednesday on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube for anyone who has questions.

[Spryte]

Oh! We do a lot of green smoothies! I wasn’t even counting those in the cups per day veggie count. Oops! We probably get close to 9 cups as it is. I just need to adjust the proportions. That’s a relief.

 

[GoVanGogh]

19 hours ago, GoVanGogh said:

I have the book and have read parts of it. I was interested in it for my Parkinson’s. But I was turned off by the fact that she, in one portion of one of her books, blames her MS on being vegetarian. I am following Dr Fuhrman and have been having very good results with reducing inflammation. 

Quoting myself, to include that info.

The Wahl’s Protocol, 2020 edition, page 191

The Potential Harm of Vegetarianism

I hope I’ve convinced you that meat has a lot of great benefits for your health, but maybe you don’t care. You’re a vegetarian and you plan to stay that way. I understand… (snip…) but once you proceed to Wahl’s Paleo, vegetarianism is no longer an option. Beyond the many benefits of animal meat, there are also many dangers that come with eating a vegetarian diet that has not been structured to ensure all nutritional needs are met. As a physician and researcher, I do not agree that a vegetarian diet is the healthiest for humans - and in fact I believe it can actually be harmful, particularly if it is not practiced carefully. Furthermore, I believe that my many years as a vegetarian could have helped trigger or at a minimum accelerate my MS. 
 

She then goes on with sections on:

vegetarian danger 1: skewing your fatty acid ratios

vegetarian danger 2: vegetable oil

vegetarian danger 3: grains and legumes

vegetarian danger 4: soy

 

[GoVanGogh]

19 hours ago, SHP said:

Do you have a link you would suggest for starting to learn a out Dr. Fuhrman's diet?

https://www.drfuhrman.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjwkeqkBhAnEiwA5U-uM-kTw1i_CKxPAjbKldH-gs0wI7KTUvjunogbEuT8HLYn5JwHAiM0TRoCjY0QAvD_BwE
Resources tab

I bought the dvd set for myself for Christmas  it was fabulous a bit dated perhaps but the info is good and the message is very inspirational. I was going to direct link to the dvd but then saw one of his books is available on clearance. 

https://shop.drfuhrman.com/sale/

His recipes are widely available on Pinterest. My DH, who hates nuts, absolutely loves his no oil, walnut salad dressing. 
 

This video is five years old now and Dr Fuhrman has moved across country, but it is still fabulous! I absolutely love this YouTube channel! He visited a local (to me) microgreen grower that I buy from at our farmers market. This microgreen vendor and YouTube channel helped me get started eating again after struggling with acute nausea related to Parkinson’s. 
 

 

 

[Selkie]

21 minutes ago, GoVanGogh said:

Quoting myself, to include that info.

The Wahl’s Protocol, 2020 edition, page 191

The Potential Harm of Vegetarianism

I hope I’ve convinced you that meat has a lot of great benefits for your health, but maybe you don’t care. You’re a vegetarian and you plan to stay that way. I understand… (snip…) but once you proceed to Wahl’s Paleo, vegetarianism is no longer an option. Beyond the many benefits of animal meat, there are also many dangers that come with eating a vegetarian diet that has not been structured to ensure all nutritional needs are met. As a physician and researcher, I do not agree that a vegetarian diet is the healthiest for humans - and in fact I believe it can actually be harmful, particularly if it is not practiced carefully. Furthermore, I believe that my many years as a vegetarian could have helped trigger or at a minimum accelerate my MS. 
 

She then goes on with sections on:

vegetarian danger 1: skewing your fatty acid ratios

vegetarian danger 2: vegetable oil

vegetarian danger 3: grains and legumes

vegetarian danger 4: soy

 

Wow, this is mind boggling. It not only contradicts scientific evidence, it also ignores the fact that the healthiest and longest lived people on the planet eat very little or no animal products (the famous Blue Zones, for example).

An interesting side note - a poster in one of my plant based groups knows Dr. Wahl personally and has discussed diet with her - and said that Dr. Wahl admitted that it is most likely the vegetables and fruits in her protocol that produced the benefits, not the meat.

[GoVanGogh]

47 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Wow, this is mind boggling. It not only contradicts scientific evidence, it also ignores the fact that the healthiest and longest lived people on the planet eat very little or no animal products (the famous Blue Zones, for example).

An interesting side note - a poster in one of my plant based groups knows Dr. Wahl personally and has discussed diet with her - and said that Dr. Wahl admitted that it is most likely the vegetables and fruits in her protocol that produced the benefits, not the meat.

1st paragraph: That was my same exact thought! That section was as far as I got with her book. Yes, I threw the baby out with the bath water. LOL 

2nd paragraph: That is fascinating and sad. 
The sections where she went in to vegetarian myths are 100% based on a vegetarian version of the standard American diet, not one that is plant based. The first vegetarian I ever knew was back in 1980’s, when I was in college, and she very much lived on rolls slathered in margarine and French fries. While a similar 1980’s diet well may have accelerated an MS diagnosis, that is far from a plant based vegetarian diet today. 

[dsmith]

13 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

LDN has done more for me than any diet. 

It helped almost immediately for my thyroid (Hashimoto's), but I wasn't seeing any benefit for MS for a while. It took about 6 months before I really noticed any difference, and it came on so slowly that it wasn't very remarkable until I sat down and thought about the changes.

[Jean in Newcastle]

8 minutes ago, dsmith said:

It helped almost immediately for my thyroid (Hashimoto's), but I wasn't seeing any benefit for MS for a while. It took about 6 months before I really noticed any difference, and it came on so slowly that it wasn't very remarkable until I sat down and thought about the changes.

I didn’t notice a positive change either until I missed a couple of doses and saw how much worse I was without it. It’s subtle but real. (For me with my fibromyalgia)