How do you define wealth?

[Clarita]

4 minutes ago, Hannah said:

54 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

There, anyone with middle class money was expected to have servants and to "spread the wealth".  It was a cultural expectation.  

That is very much the expectation here.   We have 33% unemployment in the country.  Us employing a cleaner and gardener feeds 9 mouths.

(Not in the Philippines but close) My mom's housecleaner goes to her house several times a week and I can just afford for one to come to my house once a month. We have more assets and income than my mom. So the cost of employing help is also a factor. 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

We were asked to take in a poor teenage relative and raise her in the US.  Edited to add that "raise" is the wrong word - there was no expectation that we would actually raise her and help her to become an independent adult but to just use her as labor.  They didn't understand that we didn't feel like we could morally take in a young person and have them serve us for what here would be "slave wages" with no schooling etc..  And we certainly didn't have the money to pay her what would be appropriate pay here in the US.  I feel guilt at having said no and leaving her there and yet we couldn't take what is an entire culture built around a servant class and plunk it into the US.  (And people who do that here in the US are rightly prosecuted for labor trafficking.) And we weren't in the position to adopt a teenager in the real sense of the word.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Jean in Newcastle

[Ting Tang]

Wealth can mean many things.  I always think it would be nice to have unlimited funds for spending and hiring people to do the things I do not want to do.  I just bleached one of my newer shirts today, and I was glad I only paid $9.99 for it on Amazon, lol.

 

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I will also say that culture frames a lot of conceptions around money.  When we were in the Philippines people had such a hard time wrapping their minds around the fact that I didn't have servants to do my laundry etc. here in the US.  

Same for my country of origin. Domestic helpers are hired to be all in one baby sitters, elderly aide, cook, housekeeping and their starting pay is from as low as US$350 to as high as US$750. They do get room and meals but their working hours are long, and they get only a day off per week. People who earned less than US$3k may still employ a domestic helper because it is cheaper than paying for daycare and housework is taken care of. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Arcadia
typo

[Jean in Newcastle]

23 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Same for my country of origin. Domestic helpers are hired to be all in one baby sitters, elderly aide, cook, housekeeping and their starting pay is from as low as US$350 to as high as US$750. They do get room and meals but their working hours is long, and they get only a day off per week. People who earned less than US$3k may still employ a domestic helper because it is cheaper than paying for daycare and housework is taken care of. 

Yes. But “room “ is often not what people in this country would consider even basic. I saw the cook lay a thin cot mattress on the concrete kitchen floor and that was her “room” for sleeping purposes. (Not saying that everyone with in house domestic helpers had the same housing arrangements.  But a studio apartment/room in this country would have been luxurious for the servants I observed.). And yet she told me about how grateful she was to have the position because family back home had it so much worse and she was able to send money back to them. 

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, Hannah said:

That is very much the expectation here.   We have 33% unemployment in the country.  Us employing a cleaner and gardener feeds 9 mouths.

 

Yes, that was hard for me when we were in Kenya. We hired someone to do our laundry and to clean our small studio apartment, which I could easily have done myself. But my husband convinced me that it was a good thing to do so for the reason you mentioned.  It just felt so wasteful to me and also weird... wrong actually like I think I am too good to do menial tasks and have to hire someone else to do them...  Probably why I will never hire a housecleaner here in the US.  It feels like cleaning toilets is good for spiritual formation.

[vonfirmath]

Everytime it storms outside, I am reminded how wealthy I am to be living in a secure house that does not leak and is temperature controlled.

 

[Hannah]

17 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, that was hard for me when we were in Kenya. We hired someone to do our laundry and to clean our small studio apartment, which I could easily have done myself. But my husband convinced me that it was a good thing to do so for the reason you mentioned.  It just felt so wasteful to me and also weird... wrong actually like I think I am too good to do menial tasks and have to hire someone else to do them...  Probably why I will never hire a housecleaner here in the US.  It feels like cleaning toilets is good for spiritual formation.

My family who live in Europe also did not understand until they came to visit.  Our previous cleaner worked for us for 28 years before she passed away and our gardener has been with us for 20 years.  Now that we are empty nesters I would actually prefer not having a cleaner, but I felt a social responsibility  to again provide someone the opportunity of a job. 

eta: they do not live in.  They live in their own homes and use public transport to get to us.  The cleaner's is a brick home: 2-bedroomed + kitchen + bathroom.  The gardener's is a shack built of wood and corregated iron.  Both have running water, sewerage and electricity.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Hannah

[Arcadia]

15 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Yes. But “room “ is often not what people in this country would consider even basic. I saw the cook lay a thin cot mattress on the concrete kitchen floor and that was her “room” for sleeping purposes. (Not saying that everyone with in house domestic helpers had the same housing arrangements.  But a studio apartment/room in this country would have been luxurious for the servants I observed.). And yet she told me about how grateful she was to have the position because family back home had it so much worse and she was able to send money back to them. 

Where I am from a domestic helper is supposed to get a room at least the size of a den here, though sharing a larger bedroom with the baby or a senior is acceptable if there are no spare bedrooms. For example, my husband’s aunt’s home is one bedroom apartment so the domestic helper slept in the only bedroom with the grandma (when she was alive) while the aunt slept in the living room. The domestic helper had her own bed and dresser. 

[vonfirmath]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

 

@Jean in Newcastle  Yes, we bought our house 27 years ago and paid it off 20 years ago.  I like our house.  We have done some renovation. It is nice.  However, I would be embarrassed if  other doctors he practiced with came over here.  Our house is NOTHING like any of their's. Nothing.  It looks so shabby. On the other hand, when our Honduran missionary pastor came over here on a stateside visit, I was so embarrassed about how nice my home is...how ostentatious compared to anything we saw in Honduras.  

We keep our vehicles for 20 years. Obviously, we chose a house and stayed in it. My husband had a nice job, but we decided on a level of living and stayed with it over the years and didn't feel like we needed to keep up with the Jones'. And we chose to live in a low COL place.  

You've been to Honduras? What part?

That is where I am preparing to go next summer. Lempira department.

[SKL]

It really is interesting how differently wealth plays out in different countries.

The way my housemate summed it up, "back home, the cost of a pound of chicken and a month's worth of household help is the same."  Also, "at least they are not on the street, they have good food to eat, and their kids can go to school."  The latter is huge.

I don't plan on hiring a full-time house servant, unless that is needed in my declining years.  But I do provide funds to educate a number of kids in less-developed countries.  I hope it makes a real difference.  (Not that you have to be wealthy to do that; I co-founded a charity when I was $85K in debt.)

[Hannah]

34 minutes ago, SKL said:

It really is interesting how differently wealth plays out in different countries.

The way my housemate summed it up, "back home, the cost of a pound of chicken and a month's worth of household help is the same."  Also, "at least they are not on the street, they have good food to eat, and their kids can go to school."  The latter is huge.

I don't plan on hiring a full-time house servant, unless that is needed in my declining years.  But I do provide funds to educate a number of kids in less-developed countries.  I hope it makes a real difference.  (Not that you have to be wealthy to do that; I co-founded a charity when I was $85K in debt.)

Education makes the most difference - especially good STEM education.

[Resilient]

Some good definitions upthread.  What makes me FEEL wealthy is not having to price check at the grocery store and having a car that works right. I get really bummed out when my car won’t start. 

[Melissa Louise]

Wealthy - can buy a house in this cursed city of million dollar plus sheds.

Wealth creator - nope. I don't even know what this means. Building a factory? Employing people?

Spiritually?  Increasing inner freedom to create.

Less egocentrically? Roof, water, flushing loo, food, warmth and safety? Wealthy.

Economically speaking - I'm not sure but pretty sure assets come into it. If you're sitting on a two million dollar house, paid for, and a million bucks in a retirement account, and you want to tell me you're not wealthy, go away.

~

I sort of don't care about people making fine distinctions between whether or not they are wealthy, or 'just' comfortable. Count your blessings, don't worry about being described as wealthy even if you think you're not and move on.