thanks

[heartlikealion]

My advice - speak to the priest ahead of the confession. Let him know whatever you think is pertinent. 

If there’s an issue with your son calling his dad, tell the priest that — so it’s not part of the penance. 

[katilac]

2 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

You are looking at this in a very, very narrow way.

There is a protective order against the father. That makes any advice about that father extremely fraught. And it invites danger.

No one has to ask BandH's son what exactly he wants to confess. He doesn't have to tell anyone at all except who he chooses.

No one is asking the priest to break the privacy of the confessional either.

BandH wants the priest to understand that their family situation is literally, physically DANGEROUS so the priest doesn't make a recommendation or say something that puts a CHILD in danger. 

 All I said in that post was that talking to the priest ahead of time clearly involves also talking to her son about his confession. Which it does. 

[Terabith]

Just now, katilac said:

 All I said in that post was that talking to the priest ahead of time clearly involves also talking to her son about his confession. Which it does. 

Not necessarily.

I can imagine a scenario where B&H "confesses" first and says, "My 12 year old wants to confess, and obviously, I want to support him in that.  I, of course, have no idea what he might want to confess.  But something he might want to confess is that his father accused him of lying to him, and of disobeying his father.  Here is the family context/ situation, so you know it, in case that is what he confesses."

[Corraleno]

3 minutes ago, katilac said:

 All I said in that post was that talking to the priest ahead of time clearly involves also talking to her son about his confession. Which it does. 

No it doesn't. She can tell the priest what the issues are with her family and why it would not be a good idea to make her son feel guilty for lying to his dad, or tell him to call his dad, IF that is something he confesses about. There is absolutely no need to discuss the son's actual confession with him, either before or afterwards.

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Corraleno

[Innisfree]

58 minutes ago, katilac said:

 All I said in that post was that talking to the priest ahead of time clearly involves also talking to her son about his confession. Which it does. 

I’m not Catholic, but for whatever it’s worth, I was imagining a scenario where BandH talks to the priest not immediately before confession, but hours or days before, and not in her son’s presence. She needn’t speculate or inquire at all about what her son wants to say; she just needs to explain the family situation. Communicating with the priest does sound necessary.

[Corraleno]

@BandH I'm an ex-Catholic and haven't been to confession in many decades, but I absolutely remember as a kid getting the exact sort of advice from priests that you mentioned, and I think your concerns are fully warranted. SMH at people assuming that since that's not their personal experience, it won't happen to your child, and insisting you shouldn't worry because "it'll all be ok." Maybe people who've never had their lives threatened by a mentally ill spouse should just keep their mouths shut about whether someone else's concerns are valid.

I may not have recent experience with the Catholic Church, but I do have recent experience in dealing with a mentally ill spouse and having to be very very careful what I and my kids said to him (or to someone who might repeat things to him). I know that it puts kids in an incredibly difficult spot emotionally. My ex once went completely ballistic on them when he discovered they had withheld certain information at my request, and I had to intervene in a way to redirect his anger at me. But my situation was not remotely as difficult as yours because I was thankfully able to get 100% custody and move 1000 miles away instead of having to deal with him every day. I know what my blood pressure and adrenaline levels were like in the months before we were able to move, and I can only imagine the levels of stress you are under, continuously, now and for the foreseeable future. Sending you a million hugs and tons of sympathy, empathy, and commiseration.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Corraleno

[Harriet Vane]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Not necessarily.

I can imagine a scenario where B&H "confesses" first and says, "My 12 year old wants to confess, and obviously, I want to support him in that.  I, of course, have no idea what he might want to confess.  But something he might want to confess is that his father accused him of lying to him, and of disobeying his father.  Here is the family context/ situation, so you know it, in case that is what he confesses."

Or where BandH simply says:

My son wants to confess. He has not discussed it with me, nor have I asked him to do so as that is between him and God. But to be safe, I think you as the priest should be aware that there is a protective order for [reasons] and he is unsafe in [specific circumstances]. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Harriet Vane

[Harriet Vane]

2 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

@BandH I'm an ex-Catholic and haven't been to confession in many decades, but I absolutely remember as a kid getting the exact sort of advice from priests that you mentioned, and I think your concerns are fully warranted. SMH at people assuming that since that's not their personal experience, it won't happen to your child, and insisting you shouldn't worry because "it'll all be ok." Maybe people who've never had their lives threatened by a mentally ill spouse should just keep their mouths shut about the level of danger involved.

TRUTH.

[Faith-manor]

I am not Catholic. I am just going to make a generic observation since I am pretty familiar with the faith and with other christian faiths. I think it is important for all of the leadership in a child's life to be informed of threats to child's physical danger, and enough information about that for those persons to be able to then make wise decisions should there be any point at which they might need to advocate for the child. I think in the instance of any religious family, regardless of the religion or denomination, the spiritual leaders and administrators should be informed. So in this case, if the priest does not already know that at religious events he has a minor child attending/participating who might be separated from the physical care of the safe custodian/parents/guardian whatever, the priest needs to know. This is entirely separate of the fact that this same child may later come to confession or counseling or whatever. A restraining order has the most chance of any success in protecting a child when all the adults involved are informed, and that means sports coaches, and piano teachers, and drivers ed instructors, and pastors, and Sunday school teachers, and ya...it feels like a big violation of a child's privacy. But this violation of privacy beats all to pieces the worst case scenarios of violated restraining and custody orders.

This actually doesn't need to have a single thing to do with the confession. This is also making sure that if kid is dropped to church for a kid event, the people in charge know to call the police if the unsafe person shows up or tries to take the child. It is in my mind, the first line of defense. Once the adults are informed, the chances that an inadvertent bad advice situation occurring drops significantly.

[Innisfree]

Also, about the “12 is old enough to understand…” comments: twelve year olds who have been through significant trauma, are being pulled into emotional pretzels by factors outside their control, and who are loving, deeply conscientious kids, might not be able to summon the same emotional maturity that others can.
 

This is clearly a kid who is struggling to do the right thing in an impossible situation. He’s torn between multiple people he loves. Making sure adults he sees as authority figures have the information they need to avoid making his life harder— and genuinely more dangerous— seems like a basic parental responsibility. I think BandH is absolutely right to consider the effects of whatever the priest might, without sufficient information, say.

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

Thank you, I was just about to post the same thing. Some of the responses in this thread have seemed so clueless and dismissive of the actual danger involved here, it's blowing my mind. People are responding as if BandH is somehow trying to prevent her son from confessing, or trying to find out what he's going to say, when all she's trying to do is make sure the priest has the background information he needs so that he doesn't inadvertently (1) make the child feel like he's sinning for doing what he needs to do to keep his family safe and/or (2) tell him to do something that could cause his family serious harm.  Have people not read her previous threads?? Do people not watch the news??

She made a post asking for ideas. 

I have indeed read many previous threads, but I don't know why people assume that everyone will have read previous threads related to a specific situation or poster. 

Reasonable people can disagree. 

If she has determined that the risks of just letting him go to confession are too great, then she needs to go ahead and talk to him. I do maintain there is no way of doing that without letting her son know she thinks she knows the topic of his confession. If he planned to confess to impure thoughts or cheating on a test, there is obviously no need to fill the priest in on the background information. That may not be enough of a factor to not do it, but let's acknowledge that he's going to know why she's doing it. 

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Not necessarily.

I can imagine a scenario where B&H "confesses" first and says, "My 12 year old wants to confess, and obviously, I want to support him in that.  I, of course, have no idea what he might want to confess.  But something he might want to confess is that his father accused him of lying to him, and of disobeying his father.  Here is the family context/ situation, so you know it, in case that is what he confesses."

If she wants to relate family context to the priest, she needs to make an appointment. First of all, the sacrament of reconciliation is not the time or place, and the priest wouldn't even know who she was or if she was telling the truth. Second, there is a chance her son would overhear enough to know she was talking about hi. The temptation to attempt eavesdropping when mom suddenly decides to go to confession when I do, and makes sure to go ahead of me? Almost irresistible. 

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

No it doesn't. She can tell the priest what the issues are with her family and why it would not be a good idea to make her son feel guilty to tell him to call his dad IF that is something he confesses about. There is absolutely no need to discuss the don's actual confession either before or after he confesses.

 

I am utterly surprised that some people seem to be saying that she should talk to the priest about his confession, and personal situation, without his knowledge. First of all, how would that even work? If he goes to regular confession, the priest has no idea who he is, plus it's not like only one priest hears confession. If his mom says he shouldn't go to regular confession, but go by appointment, he will clearly know something is going on. What is she going to say if she suggests an appointment, and he calmly replies that he'll just go to regular confession? 

19 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

@BandH I'm an ex-Catholic and haven't been to confession in many decades, but I absolutely remember as a kid getting the exact sort of advice from priests that you mentioned, and I think your concerns are fully warranted. SMH at people assuming that since that's not their personal experience, it won't happen to your child, and insisting you shouldn't worry because "it'll all be ok." Maybe people who've never had their lives threatened by a mentally ill spouse should just keep their mouths shut about whether someone else's concerns are valid.

 

It's been acknowledged that it's a complicated situation, but that doesn't mean all reasonable people will agree that there is one way, and one way only, to handle it. If that were so, there would be no need for discussion.

He has already been thoroughly and repeatedly advised about his dad, so I would let him go to confession, but I can see that a reasonable person might make a different choice. I do think the choice of talking to the priest should be done openly, because I think that type of secret is harmful. 

I know that I would never have agreed to giving the priest context or having confession by appointment, so that factors in my thoughts. I would have simply not gone to confession. 

9 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

 This actually doesn't need to have a single thing to do with the confession. This is also making sure that if kid is dropped to church for a kid event, the people in charge know to call the police if the unsafe person shows up or tries to take the child. It is in my mind, the first line of defense. Once the adults are informed, the chances that an inadvertent bad advice situation occurring drops significantly.

Yes, those in charge need to be aware of unsafe people. I don't think the general knowledge of that really affects the advice given in confession, though, unless the kid agrees to giving context and having confession by appointment (or telling the priest who he is in confessional, I suppose). 

[Grace Hopper]

2 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

You are looking at this in a very, very narrow way.

There is a protective order against the father. That makes any advice about that father extremely fraught. And it invites danger.

No one has to ask BandH's son what exactly he wants to confess. He doesn't have to tell anyone at all except who he chooses.

No one is asking the priest to break the privacy of the confessional either.

BandH wants the priest to understand that their family situation is literally, physically DANGEROUS so the priest doesn't make a recommendation or say something that puts a CHILD in danger. 

Not only physically dangerous, but verbally as well. That’s what makes the potential penance/advice to “call dad and apologize” a potential problem.

[Drama Llama]

.

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by BandH

[Harriet Vane]

15 hours ago, BandH said:

 

 

This is a great plan.

FWIW I think it's perfectly fine for parents to discuss things behind their kids backs if necessary to protect from trauma. It does get a lot more complicated when the kids are teenagers--they have more feelings about being a part of things and about being in charge of themselves. Your plan is based on your kids' needs and it makes sense. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Harriet Vane

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited January 23, 2023 by BandH

[ktgrok]

16 hours ago, katilac said:

If he goes to regular confession, the priest has no idea who he is, plus it's not like only one priest hears confession. If his mom says he shouldn't go to regular confession, but go by appointment, he will clearly know something is going on.

Not everyone does the behind the screen thing for confession. I never have. The priest had a chair set up behind the screen, but also one on the other side, facing him, so you could sit face to face in conversation. I've always used that one. 

Also, she already said that regular confession times don't work with his schedule anyway, so that's reason enough to do it by appointment. 

[Drama Llama]

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Not everyone does the behind the screen thing for confession. I never have. The priest had a chair set up behind the screen, but also one on the other side, facing him, so you could sit face to face in conversation. I've always used that one. 

Same

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Also, she already said that regular confession times don't work with his schedule anyway, so that's reason enough to do it by appointment. 

I just told him the truth.