Things you thought you understood but actually didn't?

[wendyroo]

I have learned that whether a need can in any way be feasibly met has no bearing on whether a person needs it.

I have four kids with special needs, and in their cases "special needs" also means copious needs, abounding needs, innumerable needs....24/7/365 never get a break without deleterious results needs. Just meeting their basic safety, health, emotional, developmental, educational needs would take at least twice as much time as I can possibly give them...and that is with me devoting my entire life to them. At this point I think I am so habitualized to their intense needs that I can't even accurately perceive how innundating their needs are compared to their nuerotypical peers.

But none of that changes that those are their needs. It doesn't change that my 13 year old still needs to be supervised or he will stick things in outlets. Or that getting my 11 year old to shower requires evacuating all the other kids from the area for an hour to protect them from his violent tantrum. That my 9 year old needs to be taken downtown to the children's hospital to see specialists a couple times a month. That my almost 7 year old still routinely forgets to wear shoes or even pants when leaving the house unless I step in and act as her executive function and impulse control.

So far too often I look at a child and think they need X, Y or Z...and have to accept that the need will go unmet.

[Momto6inIN]

7 hours ago, catz said:

Does this really happen though?

It did to me 😞

My oldest friend, who was in my wedding and whose wedding I was in and who I've known since the 2nd grade, dumped me over politics a few years ago. We weren't super close anymore and had grown into very different people, but I always valued her opinion and enjoyed hearing her perspective on things and still counted her as a friend. Until she told me to have a nice life over messenger and then blocked me and hasn't responded to my letters since.

[lauraw4321]

3 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

I thought I understood ADHD until I lived with a person who has it and witnessed the enormous challenges it poses.

Oh I could write novels about this. Not novels, non-fiction essays. Thousand page essays. 

[Jaybee]

24 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

I have learned that whether a need can in any way be feasibly met has no bearing on whether a person needs it.

I have four kids with special needs, and in their cases "special needs" also means copious needs, abounding needs, innumerable needs....24/7/365 never get a break without deleterious results needs. Just meeting their basic safety, health, emotional, developmental, educational needs would take at least twice as much time as I can possibly give them...and that is with me devoting my entire life to them. At this point I think I am so habitualized to their intense needs that I can't even accurately perceive how innundating their needs are compared to their nuerotypical peers.

But none of that changes that those are their needs. It doesn't change that my 13 year old still needs to be supervised or he will stick things in outlets. Or that getting my 11 year old to shower requires evacuating all the other kids from the area for an hour to protect them from his violent tantrum. That my 9 year old needs to be taken downtown to the children's hospital to see specialists a couple times a month. That my almost 7 year old still routinely forgets to wear shoes or even pants when leaving the house unless I step in and act as her executive function and impulse control.

So far too often I look at a child and think they need X, Y or Z...and have to accept that the need will go unmet.

That's...a lot. I wish we still had the hugs emoji. 

[catz]

4 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

It did to me 😞

My oldest friend, who was in my wedding and whose wedding I was in and who I've known since the 2nd grade, dumped me over politics a few years ago. We weren't super close anymore and had grown into very different people, but I always valued her opinion and enjoyed hearing her perspective on things and still counted her as a friend. Until she told me to have a nice life over messenger and then blocked me and hasn't responded to my letters since.

Maybe I didn't articulate what I meant well.  I'm sorry that happened to you.  I don't doubt that is how you experienced it.  I just suspect if asked most people who ended a friendship wouldn't say it was because of some basic differences of political opinion.  And that can be wrapped in all sorts of weirdness like group dynamics or conspiracy theories or mental illness.  But for some people it may truly be wrapped in a heartfelt moral belief. 

And sometimes I think as people drift apart they may just be looking for a reason not to expend more energy on a friendship that feels like it isn't working for them and they just pick up on the first conflict that comes along as a reason.

[Jaybee]

4 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

I thought I understood ADHD until I lived with a person who has it and witnessed the enormous challenges it poses.

I could say this in perhaps a smaller way about dyslexia (or expressive language disorder). Affects not just reading/spelling/writing, but comprehension of both written and verbal language. Which means sometimes things get distorted between the saying of them and the hearing/understanding of them. Which can cause relationship complications. Or an inability to follow instructions. Or an inability to understand concepts. Makes lots of things complicated.

[Momto6inIN]

12 hours ago, catz said:

Maybe I didn't articulate what I meant well.  I'm sorry that happened to you.  I don't doubt that is how you experienced it.  I just suspect if asked most people who ended a friendship wouldn't say it was because of some basic differences of political opinion.  And that can be wrapped in all sorts of weirdness like group dynamics or conspiracy theories or mental illness.  But for some people it may truly be wrapped in a heartfelt moral belief. 

And sometimes I think as people drift apart they may just be looking for a reason not to expend more energy on a friendship that feels like it isn't working for them and they just pick up on the first conflict that comes along as a reason.

I'm sure all of that is true for some people. But she specifically told me it was because of one of my political opinions in her message before blocking me. I'm very sure that she feels her political opinions are a heartfelt moral belief. But we had weathered heartfelt moral belief disagreements before - especially when I became a born again Christian and she was very ambivalent about her faith - and we had always been able to talk and discuss our differences in love before this and stayed friends for at least 15 more years after that point. She told me outright it was this particular opinion that was a line in the sand for her, so it's not like I was assuming anything or prescribing motives to her that weren't there. She would and did say it was a political difference that caused her to end the friendship.

I'm not trying to argue or make some big point, I'm really not, and I'm not trying for sympathy points here either 🙂 But I do want to say that yes, it does happen. I have no idea how widesprad it is, but it's not something that depends only on my perspective of the situation.

[kbutton]

15 hours ago, wendyroo said:

I have learned that whether a need can in any way be feasibly met has no bearing on whether a person needs it.

I wish that more people understood this.

I wish my parents' generation had some concept of it--they think that people can just talk to a professional, and what the professional has to offer will be what the people need. If only.

We've had unusually good access to what we've needed developmentally, but we hit some walls with medical stuff this summer. It's maddening.

18 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

I thought I understood ADHD until I lived with a person who has it and witnessed the enormous challenges it poses.

And Johnny's ADHD is not Susie's ADHD is not Joe's ADHD. There is no one-size fits all solution.

14 hours ago, Jaybee said:

I could say this in perhaps a smaller way about dyslexia (or expressive language disorder). Affects not just reading/spelling/writing, but comprehension of both written and verbal language. Which means sometimes things get distorted between the saying of them and the hearing/understanding of them. Which can cause relationship complications. Or an inability to follow instructions. Or an inability to understand concepts. Makes lots of things complicated.

Yes, and we don't screen well enough at all for language issues that cross categories, are subtle, affect kids with certain learning or developmental profiles (like verbally gifted kids; verbally gifted and language disorders can co-exist), etc.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

My life. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[Not_a_Number]

4 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

I'm sure all of that is true for some people. But she specifically told me it was because of one of my political opinions in her message before blocking me. I'm very sure that she feels her political opinions are a heartfelt moral belief. But we had weathered heartfelt moral belief disagreements before - especially when I became a born again Christian and she was very ambivalent about her faith - and we had always been able to talk and discuss our differences in love before this and stayed friends for at least 15 more years after that point. She told me outright it was this particular opinion that was a line in the sand for her, so it's not like I was assuming anything or prescribing motives to her that weren't there. She would and did say it was a political difference that caused her to end the friendship.

I'm not trying to argue or make some big point, I'm really not, and I'm not trying for sympathy points here either 🙂 But I do want to say that yes, it does happen. I have no idea how widesprad it is, but it's not something that depends only on my perspective of the situation.

From my perspective, you guys are talking at each other. That is, you're drawing a different line in the sand about what's "politics" and what's "a genuine moral belief." 

Maybe more globally, the question is whether genuine moral beliefs can be described as political beliefs, or whether politics must by definition be something people feel a bit removed from. 

[Not_a_Number]

17 hours ago, wendyroo said:

I have learned that whether a need can in any way be feasibly met has no bearing on whether a person needs it.

I have four kids with special needs, and in their cases "special needs" also means copious needs, abounding needs, innumerable needs....24/7/365 never get a break without deleterious results needs. Just meeting their basic safety, health, emotional, developmental, educational needs would take at least twice as much time as I can possibly give them...and that is with me devoting my entire life to them. At this point I think I am so habitualized to their intense needs that I can't even accurately perceive how innundating their needs are compared to their nuerotypical peers.

But none of that changes that those are their needs. It doesn't change that my 13 year old still needs to be supervised or he will stick things in outlets. Or that getting my 11 year old to shower requires evacuating all the other kids from the area for an hour to protect them from his violent tantrum. That my 9 year old needs to be taken downtown to the children's hospital to see specialists a couple times a month. That my almost 7 year old still routinely forgets to wear shoes or even pants when leaving the house unless I step in and act as her executive function and impulse control.

So far too often I look at a child and think they need X, Y or Z...and have to accept that the need will go unmet.

That's so hard, Wendy 😕 . I hope that one of these days you get a genuine break where you get to think about what YOU need. 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

On 9/30/2022 at 7:40 AM, catz said:

A lot of these are good.  The 2 in the OP, I learned pretty early into marriage/parenthood but I wish I would have learned them earlier in adulthood for sure!

I'm jealous. I did a lot of damage not understanding them. My family of origin wasn't real helpful in this regard, which is perhaps a bit of an excuse, but it's also an explanation. 

 

On 9/30/2022 at 7:40 AM, catz said:

One thing that really changed my mindset is realizing when other people behave badly, it is not about me.  Everyone is fighting a battle you may know nothing about.  That crabby lady in line may have had her dog die yesterday.  I think most people are trying to do the best they can with the tools, resources and time they have.  But some people don't have a good tool box for a variety of reasons. 

Yes. That's such a good point. 

[scbusf]

Before we adopted our girls from China, I thought we understood what we were doing. We took all the trainings, read all the books, etc. We were told that “If you get kids home before they turn 2, you’re in good shape and will avoid major long term issues.” That was so far from the reality we have experienced. I have learned so much about early trauma and the long term effects of it. 

[Not_a_Number]

15 minutes ago, scbusf said:

Before we adopted our girls from China, I thought we understood what we were doing. We took all the trainings, read all the books, etc. We were told that “If you get kids home before they turn 2, you’re in good shape and will avoid major long term issues.” That was so far from the reality we have experienced. I have learned so much about early trauma and the long term effects of it. 

That’s so tough. How old are they now?

[scbusf]

41 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

That’s so tough. How old are they now?

Adopted at 21 months and 18 months, now 14 and 12. The mental health struggles and learning disabilities have been difficult.

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, scbusf said:

Adopted at 21 months and 18 months, now 14 and 12. The mental health struggles and learning disabilities have been difficult.

This might be a bit off-topic, but what general attitude have you found helpful with them? (We don't have adopted kids, but we definitely have some mental health struggles.) 

[Jaybee]

1 hour ago, scbusf said:

Before we adopted our girls from China, I thought we understood what we were doing. We took all the trainings, read all the books, etc. We were told that “If you get kids home before they turn 2, you’re in good shape and will avoid major long term issues.” That was so far from the reality we have experienced. I have learned so much about early trauma and the long term effects of it. 

The wounds go deep. 

[Garga]

On 9/30/2022 at 10:13 AM, Storygirl said:

I thought my love of reading and focus on reading to my children would turn them into people who like to read.

I had years of grief as the above became true for me. Being “a reader” was what I considered one of my primary characteristics. I used to feel that people who didn’t like to read weren’t my people.

I did what most homeschooling parents do and would read until I was hoarse to my kids every day for years. But neither of them like to read (they’re 17 and 20 now) and it was heartbreaking for me to accept. Were my own children not “my people”? Even though intellectually I knew it didn’t matter that they weren’t readers, in my heart I felt betrayed by my children. How could they not be like me at such a core level? Were they rejecting reading on purpose as a way to reject me? How could something that I valued so highly mean absolutely nothing to them?

Over the years, I finally accepted that they’re not readers and that’s ok, and I don’t even think about it anymore, but the road to acceptance was hard and I felt bad about myself along the way for taking so long to accept that my kids weren’t rejecting me, but were their own people with their own likes/dislikes.

 

One thing that took me a while to learn was that people could think differently from me and not be wrong. I spent up to about age 35 figuring that since I had thought about something really hard and had analyzed it from all the angles, that whatever I believed about it simply must be right, because I’d put effort into it. If other people thought differently, they must not understand the issue the way I do, because if they did, they’d agree with me; they were obviously wrong and I was right.

By the time I was 40, I realized how untrue that was and that people can think differently and neither party is wrong. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Garga

[wendyroo]

10 minutes ago, Garga said:

By the time I was 40, I realized how untrue that was and that people can think differently and neither party is wrong. 

I'm 40 now, and my big realization is that most people don't think at all. They don't think about parenting, education, climate change, religion, the economy, the pandemic, systemic racism, etc. They have opinions, but they are just parroting talking points they don't understand or clinging to long held dogmatic beliefs that they can't substantiate or support.

[Clarita]

3 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

I'm 40 now, and my big realization is that most people don't think at all. They don't think about parenting, education, climate change, religion, the economy, the pandemic, systemic racism, etc.

This was a big shock to me. Especially when it came to kids. There were mom's who would come to me for advice and I would give them a book recommendation because really the answer they were seeking were in this short book. Their immediate answer would be "Ugh I don't want to read, just tell me what it says." It was really weird to me that they would want my regurgitated version rather than the actual thing. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Clarita said:

This was a big shock to me. Especially when it came to kids. There were mom's who would come to me for advice and I would give them a book recommendation because really the answer they were seeking were in this short book. Their immediate answer would be "Ugh I don't want to read, just tell me what it says." It was really weird to me that they would want my regurgitated version rather than the actual thing. 

To be a bit of a devil's advocate, I absolutely do not have time to read extra books :-P. I like reading forums, but that's no effort and is a good way to procrastinate work 😉 . But making sense of a book isn't like that and I don't have the juice right now. 

[Hilltopmom]

What parenting kids/ young adults with autism is like.

I’m a special Ed teacher, so I thought I understood. I was wrong.

I’m still proved wrong multiple times a day.

eta- and kids with mental health struggles

really, any kids, I guess 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Hilltopmom