Structuring unstructured days/accountability/traveling/community/belonging

[Soror]

3 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Not sure where I would even find this and so completely foreign to me. 

fwiw---Book clubs would be posted at the library or book stores. Our small town library has 2 different book clubs.

I can relate to the feeling of one thing after another. Really and truly but I realized that thinking was not helpful to me. After each new bad thing I'd sit there and think--- one more thing on the list and go through the litany of all the bad things and then they would connect in my mind all the way back. But when all the focus is on all the bad things the good parts in there got lost. And there are good parts in there. It is not just only bad things. It is fresh and raw to you so your connecting every bad thing that has ever happened in your life and writing the story of your life as nothing good happens to me.  But don't let the narrative of your life be that only bad things happen because it isn't true. I think perhaps going on a mission trip will be good for you as much as you seem to be dreading it. Sometimes getting away from our life can break us out of unhelpful and unhealthy thought patterns and it will likely be a change in perspective. 

Dh had a total change in perspective after our 3 weeks in Europe. I really, really didn't want to be gone that long. He was desperate that he *needed* this. It has been a night/day change for him. He's on his 5th year of college while working FT+. I've spent so much time worrying the stress of it would kill him. It has been rough. But after vaca he was able to step back and realize he could back up some at work and not push himself so hard. It's still hard because it just is but a little bit easier than before is a huge help. 

After a very rough few years dd and I are trying new things. I decided to try pickleball and play whenever I get the chance. I'm not the least bit athletic--- like my hand eye coordination and depth perception are comically bad but I keep going. I've not made any friends yet but am getting friendlier with the people. It is good to have that social time even if we're not friends. Trying new things is also a huge distractor, something to focus on, and as a bonus good for my brain and my body. My daughter had a hard couple of years--- then the wreck (in case you weren't here-- she was with bf when they wrecked on the way to her bday dinner--- he died). It was hard. It is hard. It is horrible. But she's moving on and putting herself out there. She joined the tennis team and found new friends there and now that is finished is going out for swimming.She wasn't athletic before but she decided to just jump right in and do it anyway. Really both of those things are sports but don't have to be, that's just what called to us.

But dd's also doing counseling for the trauma and PTSD. I'd honestly not look for a specifically Christian based counselor but one that uses evidence based practices. I specifically looked for CBT for dd because like you (and myself) she can get in a spiral. Talking and thinking about all the bad things was not what she needed. She needed work on changing her thought patterns because they weren't healthy. You need the same, your thought patterns are not healthy or helpful.  It isn't productive for you to go to a counselor and just sit and go over all the ways your life is bad. 

[TexasProud]

3 minutes ago, Soror said:

 

But dd's also doing counseling for the trauma and PTSD. I'd honestly not look for a specifically Christian based counselor but one that uses evidence based practices. I specifically looked for CBT for dd because like you (and myself) she can get in a spiral. Talking and thinking about all the bad things was not what she needed. She needed work on changing her thought patterns because they weren't healthy. You need the same, your thought patterns are not healthy or helpful.  It isn't productive for you to go to a counselor and just sit and go over all the ways your life is bad. 

I HAVE!!!!!!!!!

How do you find one???????  Seriously. All the ones in the area listed they were Christian. I did BetterHelp and SPECIFICALLY put not Christian.  That guy didn't help either. That is what I mean. I sit and talk about this awful stuff and I don't get any strategies or help.  I have tried 4 times.  I am supposed to talk with a new one on the phone Friday, but yeah, she has Christian in her description.  But really, this will be my 5th try.  It feels hopeless. So if you have any suggestion, PLEASE give them.

[Soror]

20 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I HAVE!!!!!!!!!

How do you find one???????  Seriously. All the ones in the area listed they were Christian. I did BetterHelp and SPECIFICALLY put not Christian.  That guy didn't help either. That is what I mean. I sit and talk about this awful stuff and I don't get any strategies or help.  I have tried 4 times.  I am supposed to talk with a new one on the phone Friday, but yeah, she has Christian in her description.  But really, this will be my 5th try.  It feels hopeless. So if you have any suggestion, PLEASE give them.

I specifically looked for ones listed as CBT. The first one was also a Christian counselor and I don't think actually used much CBT. I should have screened her more but at that point we were in a crisis state and needed something soon. The current one is golden. Keep trying, ask them specifically about techniques and strategies they use. The new one was much more forthcoming with information. I should have dumped the first one and in the future will not keep on with counselors for me or the kids that are not helpful. The current one has been very helpful to dd on the dep and anxiety side of things. That being said she's also results focused and suggested that we considered EMDR for the trauma. She had mentioned it before we started sessions but as we have no one local that does it and dd had a good connection with her we thought we'd try the trauma focused CBT first. And like I said it has helped the dep and anxiety but we might need to move to the EMDR specifically for the trauma/PTSD. 

[DawnM]

What are the trips to Africa about?   Where in Africa?   Are you interacting with missionaries there?   Or who?   I grew up in Kenya and the deepest relationships I have are from Kenya to this day.   And we still keep in touch regularly.   

In fact, I have tried to recreate some of those relationships here in the US and it just isn't the same.   Like you said, once the activity is over, the friendship is often over too.  I have found my people, but it is like one from this Bible Study, one from my boys' scouting days, one from here or there.   I do have a few friends from work.   And of course, I am leaving that job now, but will remain friends with one of the ones I actually brought over from my last school.   We go out weekly for dinner which is very nice.

[TexasProud]

7 minutes ago, DawnM said:

What are the trips to Africa about?   Where in Africa?   Are you interacting with missionaries there?   Or who?   I grew up in Kenya and the deepest relationships I have are from Kenya to this day.   And we still keep in touch regularly.   

 

Sent you a pm

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

For the most part, I feel safe because I know I can survive stuff. I trust the practice I've had...

Ha this is me too.  I am like……whatever.  As much as I thought some of recent years events would kill me, here I am.  I get up each day and try to enjoy the small things and not let the big ‘what Ifs’ worry me too much.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Soror said:

 

But dd's also doing counseling for the trauma and PTSD. I'd honestly not look for a specifically Christian based counselor but one that uses evidence based practices. I specifically looked for CBT for dd because like you (and myself) she can get in a spiral. Talking and thinking about all the bad things was not what she needed. She needed work on changing her thought patterns because they weren't healthy. You need the same, your thought patterns are not healthy or helpful.  It isn't productive for you to go to a counselor and just sit and go over all the ways your life is bad. 

Yes I agree. @TexasProud you have a big tendency toward ANT. (Automatic Negative Thought).  My son has this too and it had not served him well. You need to specifically ask for help changing your thought pattern.  

[TexasProud]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes I agree. @TexasProud you have a big tendency toward ANT. (Automatic Negative Thought).  My son has this too and it had not served him well. You need to specifically ask for help changing your thought pattern.  

Again, I have tried.  Just looking, not really seeing it.  They may list it, but doesn't sound like thatis what they really do.  EVERY therapist I look at is "listening non-judgementally."   I think I need judgement.  So again, if anyone has a specific therapist to share that would actually do what you describe, I am all ears. 

[TexasProud]

13 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Ha this is me too.  I am like……whatever.  As much as I thought some of recent years events would kill me, here I am.  I get up each day and try to enjoy the small things and not let the big ‘what Ifs’ worry me too much.

Yeah, it didn't kill me, but I was isolated, alone with no one to help me.  That isn't much of a life. It is always up to me. Whenever I think I can let go ( hospice being latest example), it ends up a huge disaster.

That said, the spiritual director is saying you have been there so much for everyone else, this is a space for you to be held and comforted.  So hopefully, but we will see. 

[Rosie_0801]

2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Again, I have tried.  Just looking, not really seeing it.  They may list it, but doesn't sound like thatis what they really do.  EVERY therapist I look at is "listening non-judgementally."   I think I need judgement.  So again, if anyone has a specific therapist to share that would actually do what you describe, I am all ears. 

Who do you want judgment from?
You won't get it from a therapist. That's not really their job.
You get judgment from your mates, if they are impolite enough to give it.
 

[TexasProud]

2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Who do you want judgment from?
You won't get it from a therapist. That's not really their job.
You get judgment from your mates, if they are impolite enough to give it.
 

Well, whenever I tell what I have been up against I get, "That must be hard. I can see how frustrating it would be." No ways to fix it. 

I need more what the hive does: STOP IT.  Think like this instead.  You will fix your feelings by doing xyz.

Edited September 29, 2022 by TexasProud

[Rosie_0801]

Just now, TexasProud said:

Well, whenever I tell what I have been up against I get, "That must be hard. I can see how frustrating it would be." No ways to fix it. 

I need more what the hive does: STOP IT.  Think like this instead.

Well, there are things that can't be fixed.

Secondly, you don't like it from us either.

[TexasProud]

2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Well, there are things that can't be fixed.

Secondly, you don't like it from us either.

UGGHH..  I am trying.  WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ME TO DO>  I AM TRYING

[Rosie_0801]

2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

UGGHH..  I am trying.  WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ME TO DO>  I AM TRYING

I don't expect you to do anything because you have been very clear you don't want to think the way you need to to get the outcomes you want.

We're all hanging on your threads anyway, because we're not collectively scuzzes who'd leave a sister sitting in the muck by herself.

[TexasProud]

Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

I don't expect you to do anything because you have been very clear you don't want to think the way you need to to get the outcomes you want.

We're all hanging on your threads anyway, because we're not collectively scuzzes who'd leave a sister sitting in the muck by herself.

So there is no hope...  Ok, now I know. I will stop looking.  I always knew I was too broken to be fixed.  Thank you. 

[Rosie_0801]

Just now, TexasProud said:

So there is no hope...  Ok, now I know. I will stop looking.  I always knew I was too broken to be fixed.  Thank you. 

Good choice. There is absolutely no hope that you will achieve the impossible.

Really, if God sat down next to you right now and said "Eh, Love, you're overthinking. Those things, they weren't your doing. They were just things that had to happen," you'd argue wouldn't you? 

You're not too broken to fix yourself, but you can't do it the way you want to. You can't fix yourself using self-sabotage as your main tool and that's what you're trying to do. Morale never improves while the beatings continue.

[Scarlett]

13 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I don't expect you to do anything because you have been very clear you don't want to think the way you need to to get the outcomes you want.

We're all hanging on your threads anyway, because we're not collectively scuzzes who'd leave a sister sitting in the muck by herself.

Yep.  I know when I have been through the worst of my life the ones that stuck with me and listened to my raving lunacy…..over and over….those are my real friends.  And eventually, when they felt I had raved and wailed and stomped my feet enough…..they said, ‘ come now,  time to think about other things.  Time to let go of those bad things.  Time to move forward. ‘. And it isn’t an overnight thing.  Just last week I had a little moment where a friend had to tell me, ‘what they do is between them and God. Worry about your own self.’   
 

You get a lot of good feedback here. A little bit of hugs and a little bit of ‘come now, let’s move forward’.  
 

Personally, I am not a therapy fan.  I know it helps some people but it never helped me.  I have always needed more tough love, action plan.  
 

One thing that helped me—- when I have intrusive, spiraling thoughts I envision a big 🛑 in my head and I mentally also put up my own hand in a stop motion.  And then I redirect my thoughts away from the bad and toward the good.  
 

 

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

One thing that helped me—- when I have intrusive, spiraling thoughts I envision a big 🛑 in my head and I mentally also put up my own hand in a stop motion.  And then I redirect my thoughts away from the bad and toward the good.  

I shake my head, as though it's going to mess the thought patterns up like a snowglobe. 😂

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I shake my head, as though it's going to mess the thought patterns up like a snowglobe. 😂

Ooooh I like that one!  Thank you.  
 

Last night  Dh was telling me something that is a real positive for him but it triggered me big time…..I could see in his eyes that he knew it might….and I actually felt a little dizzy like I was about to fall off a cliff.  So I focused on him and his mouth, and the words and I smiled and I breathed and it PASSED!  I was so proud of myself.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

3 hours ago, TexasProud said:

I HAVE!!!!!!!!!

How do you find one???????  Seriously. All the ones in the area listed they were Christian. I did BetterHelp and SPECIFICALLY put not Christian.  That guy didn't help either. That is what I mean. I sit and talk about this awful stuff and I don't get any strategies or help.  I have tried 4 times.  I am supposed to talk with a new one on the phone Friday, but yeah, she has Christian in her description.  But really, this will be my 5th try.  It feels hopeless. So if you have any suggestion, PLEASE give them.

I am desperately trying to find a trauma therapist too. They can’t keep people here.  It’s awful. 
 

I am so sorry.

[DawnM]

It is ok to be a realist.   I am a realist and I can edge into negative.   Ok, I can FALL all the way into negative.   I think several things can play into it for me.   Past experiences, hurts, rejections, etc...... and my ability to see things from all angles.....it is a blessing.....and a curse.

We all have our lenses we see the world through based on personality and experiences.   It can be difficult to break through that.   

What I *try* to do is to name one positive outcome for each negative outcome my  brain comes up with.   I don't always have the ability to do this 😜

[Jaybee]

@TexasProud, I am a Christian too. And I have been through some challenges. So I say what I say through that lens. When I read your posts, I can't really tell what you want. It's like when you offer a little child something because they ask for it, but then they throw it down and pitch a fit because that isn't what they want either. You reference your faith a lot, and then say if things aren't just like you think they should be, it is all hopeless and you should just die. Really, the dramatics is a lot, and I want to be sympathetic with your pain, etc., but this has happened over and over for years, with board name changes, people trying to help you get through things, etc, etc. You have been through a rough time, and you are grieving at least one recent loss. You pile guilt on yourself that is unwarranted. As @Rosie_0801has said repeatedly, you hold yourself to a standard that is ridiculously high. You said you wanted some honesty, and it seems like talk therapy in and of itself is not helpful to you. I really really really don't want to be unkind, but I'm going to talk straight with you. So here are how some things look to me (I may be wrong), and I hope you can take it as if I were your friend who had made you feel heard and cared for first:

In no particular order from a friend, not a counselor.

1. Perhaps you should look into a neurofeedback therapy center. The patterns you learned from childhood were not healthy, according to posts you have made before. We are all over here trying to figure things out, but talk therapy only frustrates you and doesn't seem to help you. It sounds like you need new patterns in your brain. The old ones have made deep ruts. There are also other therapies meant to help with this. 

2. Your Christian faith seems to be based a lot on outward behavior and/or appearance. You hold certain standards of how you should behave and "what Christians should do" and how you are seen. But it seems like you have never internalized that God's love for you is not performance based. He loves you just as much if you are bedridden and unable to function as he does when you run around and do all the things. You have value because you are a human made in His image.

3. Of course, James says that faith without works is dead. But it seems like a lot of your service is just because you feel you should, so then you resent it. What about the verses that say that if we do it unto the least of these, we do it for Him? Is the service an act out of love for Jesus and an offering to Him? Or is it something so that you won't be seen as neglectful or a bad person? The motivation makes a real difference. I know you know that we all have things in our lives that involve duty, things that must be done that we had rather not do, some of them very hard and challenging, and some of them just annoying like dusting the furniture. 

4. It seems like you have some erroneous theology. Jesus is the Savior. He is the perfect one. You are neither. You aren't going to get everything right, and when you don't, the proper pathway is to say, "God, I messed up. Please forgive me. Thank you for forgiving me (and help me to forgive myself)." Then you quit beating yourself over the head with it because He says there is no condemnation in Christ for those who believe. Maybe memorize that verse. God is also the one who is omnipotent and omniscient. You are neither. So you don't beat yourself over the head with that, either. You muddle through, reading the Bible, praying, trying to listen to what God wants from you, but you accept that it does not all fall on you. Could be a pride issue if you believe that it does.

5. This one is a vague impression. Again, I could be wrong. It seems that you protect your deep inner self. Even on here, when you start to tell us who you are, it all involves the things you do, the things you are good at, performance in one way or another, as though you are looking at yourself from the outside and wondering what it looks like. Maybe you are afraid that if you were truly known, you would be rejected. When you go for therapy, you want them to hand you a solution. When you try to make friends, you want them to make you feel okay deep inside. You want affirmation and confirmation that you really are okay and worthy of love. You seem desperate for that sometimes. So people are going to fail you in that because they can't supply all your needs. But with God, who can, you can't accept it from Him. Maybe because He also lets you hurt. Maybe because He, too, doesn't meet your expectations of your image of who He is supposed to be. I don't know, it's vague but feels like it is part of the heart of it all. [Sub-question: Do you write, do you sing, do you go on mission, etc., as a humble offering to Him, or because it brings you some of those feelings of worth and affirmation? This is a hard one, because we all have gifts that should be used and we feel more ourselves when we are able to practice them--so it's just something to ponder, not something meant to make you quit doing the things you love.]

6. I hope this doesn't come across as sanctimonious, because that certainly isn't the way I am coming at it. People come at faith many different ways, and sometimes they leave it. Those of us who don't, it doesn't mean we are without struggles sometimes. I choose to still believe. I believe that the gospel is true. I am placing all I am on that. My life has been lived and my choices have been made, however imperfectly, with that being my underlying belief. If I am wrong...I am not going to go kill myself because it wasn't what I thought. I am not going to feel that because I didn't base my life on selfish aspirations that it was worthless (I am NOT saying that people who are not Christians do live with selfish aspirations, I'm just saying that my own inclinations might and still do lean that way sometimes). While my life has looked different in quite a few ways than what I thought it would (and the same in others as what I hoped), it has been worth it to me. Life is hard, but life is good! If there is nothing after this life, I have still learned so much, lived so much, been given so much, and have experienced good. But I don't believe I am wrong. 

 

I am just one person on here, this is just this one person's opinion, and I don't want to cause you harm. If this feels harmful to you, then I hope you will ask the moderators to take it down and that it will not cause you any longterm angst. I have gone back and forth over being frustrated and being sympathetic, but with your last few posts seeming to want some straight talk, this is mine.

[Scarlett]

@Jaybee that is an amazing post. Very kind and insightful. You brought into focus a few things about @TexasProud that I have never been able to pin down.  @TexasProud I hope you are able to find a point or two in her post thet helps you. 

[LaughingCat]

3 hours ago, TexasProud said:

So there is no hope...  Ok, now I know. I will stop looking.  I always knew I was too broken to be fixed.  Thank you. 

IMO, this is just more negative self talk caused by your depression.  Been there done that -- seems endless while you're in it.   None of us nor counselors will be able to fix it quickly as you wish could happen (part of the negative spiral for you seems to be thinking that if only your life were perfect situation you would not feel this way)

fwiw, I was lucky in that I eventually found a counselor that did EMDR with me even though I had no one clear traumatic incident and I personally got HUGE relief from that (know others that it hasn't helped)-- however she moved and next counselor, recommended by first, was not a good fit even though she also did EMDR (this was long ago, pre-online stuff).  I still have a few aural EMDR tapes that I listen to sometimes when I can tell I'm getting caught in a downward spiral of thoughts (mine are old, pre-online stuff but I see a few on Amazon).   

[lauraw4321]

One thing to throw in - therapy was no help until my depression was medically controlled. 

[livetoread]

Therapy is not the be all/end all (and I say that as a former therapist)! You might get some help from going through some books or workbooks focused on changing negative thought patterns. It takes being aware of what they look like and then consciously trying to change them when they happen which is why a therapist can help with that, but the therapist part isn't necessary. You can do it yourself. There is a more recent emphasis on mindfulness and radical acceptance that I personally have found very helpful, ymmv. I know it's frustrating to feel like you are trying and not feeling the results. I hope you find what is helpful for you. Oh, and if you do try another therapist, tell them up front what you want - help recognizing and changing negative thought patterns - and what hasn't been helpful for you in the past - talking on and on about your troubles.

[Jaybee]

Dear @TexasProud, I hope I did not hurt you with my post. I know it was very straight talk, and maybe it was too much with your grief over your mom so fresh. If I was hurtful, I am very sorry. I tried to send this to you privately, but it said that you could not receive messages.

ETA: If anybody is wondering, @TexasProudand I are good.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Jaybee