Might need to change math for 3rd grade!!!???

[seemesew]

Okay here we go again! I really thought we had found the math we would stick with till my 3rd grader gets to Saxon but we need to change. He isn't ready for saxon yet because his handwriting isn't good enough yet to copy into a notebook that is why I'm not switching straight to that,

We've been using The Good and the Beautiful math his whole schooling and I have completely satisfied with everything they have taught, he is very good at math and his thinking is beyond what any of my other kids have been at his age. I credit it to the hand holding I've had as a teacher using Tgab math. However, the last year my son has been frustrated with the math and it boils down to 2 things, the biggest issues is the color their new editions are SO colorful that he will start his independent work and then before he knows what is happening he is off to daydream and can't do a simple 11-5= problem and math ends in tears because he has spent 30 minutes on 2 problems most of which is because he is so distracted by the fun images that basically cover the whole page. The other issue is now that he is 1/3rd through their 3rd grade book I am NOT liking the way they teach multiplication. They don't do it by families but random problems based on music the author wrote that has no rhyme or reason to the facts, they say its because it all has be memorized so why teach by families and waste time? This may be true but my son has not mastered any of the problems and we've been doing it faithfully. I think their method is just plain weird.

All that to say I am now looking at Horizons, Saxon 3, or possibly Abeka (not sure about his one). Except I'm worried about them because tgab math has such great logic and rea life math that its been so refreshing instead of just facts, I'm worried my sons great understanding will go away with using these very fact driven programs. I know Singapore or beast academy is good but I am ONLY considering those 3 I mentioned because I wouldn't be able to teach the others.

Question 1. Do they need to all the multiplication facts for Horizons 3? My son knows 2,5,10,1's, he understands the concept completely but the others aren't memorized yet.. He passed everything for 3rd grade horizons except the multiplication without help.

Question 2: Do you think doing tgab lessons with me (only the lesson not the additional practice) and then horizons work pages would be too much or even work? I love the way they teach and hold my hand without being too much work or manipulative heavy and the only reason I'm considering switching is because he can't focus with the color pages.

Any other suggestions to make tgab math work would be appreciated.

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by seemesew

[HomeAgain]

If something works, I wouldn't throw it out just yet.  Is there any way you can prep the lesson ahead of time so that you can do more orally/on white paper?  Or conversely, sit with the independent work and continue to keep him on task?

[seemesew]

5 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

If something works, I wouldn't throw it out just yet.  Is there any way you can prep the lesson ahead of time so that you can do more orally/on white paper?  Or conversely, sit with the independent work and continue to keep him on task?

I could possibly do some prep work... I'm not really sure how i would do that but I'll give it some thought. As for the sitting with him during independent part I'm not sure that would be helpful or not. The images are distracting even when i sit with him 🙄 but maybe i can give more direction during that time or set a timer... I'm not sure. I did look at the next levels and they cut the color images quite a bit so if we can just get through this level he might be okay in the next ones. 

 

[HomeAgain]

I wonder if a "full cup" strategy would work...where it doesn't matter what he does during his independent time.  You don't get angry or frustrated that he only did two problems, but the result is he looks at the same image for several days.  When he completes it, he's able to use the rest of his time that period to look at the next lesson, which in turn helps him get that out of the way before the next one.

It won't get math done quickly at first, and it might be something you've already tried, but it has helped here when something is visually stimulating.

[seemesew]

5 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I wonder if a "full cup" strategy would work...where it doesn't matter what he does during his independent time.  You don't get angry or frustrated that he only did two problems, but the result is he looks at the same image for several days.  When he completes it, he's able to use the rest of his time that period to look at the next lesson, which in turn helps him get that out of the way before the next one.

It won't get math done quickly at first, and it might be something you've already tried, but it has helped here when something is visually stimulating.

That is amazingly brilliant! I have not tried that but I think it may work. I'm definitely going to try this strategy starting tomorrow!  Thank you!!!

[amiesmom]

I haven't looked at TGTB math, so I don't know if this is possible, but what about using Multiplication Facts that Stick to teach multiplication specifically by fact family. Would it be possible to leave out lessons specifically focused on teaching multiplication from TGTB but continue using it to teach other concepts?

[ktgrok]

Could you cut a piece of white paper so that there is a hole in it about the size of one typical problem, and he can put it over the page so that it blocks the rest of the images?

[seemesew]

16 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Could you cut a piece of white paper so that there is a hole in it about the size of one typical problem, and he can put it over the page so that it blocks the rest of the images?

That is a great idea!

[seemesew]

17 hours ago, amiesmom said:

I haven't looked at TGTB math, so I don't know if this is possible, but what about using Multiplication Facts that Stick to teach multiplication specifically by fact family. Would it be possible to leave out lessons specifically focused on teaching multiplication from TGTB but continue using it to teach other concepts?

I think that is what I'll do. He can look the answers up on his multiplication chart for things where he needs to know them in other places.

 

[Malam]

You could also teach him to fill out his own (half of the) multiplication chart using skip counting, etc, and use that as a reference. That way he'll get practice with the logic behind multiplication while still seeing them often enough to build atomicity

[Janeway]

OK..I know you said you are not interested in other suggestions...BUT.....

Alright, I will say, of the ones you listed, Horizon's is the best choice. I think you will like it. I like Horizon's just fine, it is great and all, BUT, I like BJU a little better.

I wanted to add in our opinion of TGTB Simply Math. I think it is an excellent and solid program. However, it just "felt" cumbersome. It took a long time for each lesson and in some cases, had unnecessarily complicated games. I felt it was one of those programs where half the review problems needed to be crossed off. But crossing off problems always makes me feel like we are missing something and/or wasting workbook.

[Shoeless]

I don't know if Horizons 3 has changed in the last few years, but when we used it 7 or 8 years ago, it was fairly colorful. 

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, Janeway said:

OK..I know you said you are not interested in other suggestions...BUT.....

Alright, I will say, of the ones you listed, Horizon's is the best choice. I think you will like it. I like Horizon's just fine, it is great and all, BUT, I like BJU a little better.

I wanted to add in our opinion of TGTB Simply Math. I think it is an excellent and solid program. However, it just "felt" cumbersome. It took a long time for each lesson and in some cases, had unnecessarily complicated games. I felt it was one of those programs where half the review problems needed to be crossed off. But crossing off problems always makes me feel like we are missing something and/or wasting workbook.

I felt that way with the old TGTB math, the new version I (so far) feel is just right. But..we do sometimes skip the game if there is one. 

[seemesew]

7 hours ago, Janeway said:

OK..I know you said you are not interested in other suggestions...BUT.....

Alright, I will say, of the ones you listed, Horizon's is the best choice. I think you will like it. I like Horizon's just fine, it is great and all, BUT, I like BJU a little better.

I wanted to add in our opinion of TGTB Simply Math. I think it is an excellent and solid program. However, it just "felt" cumbersome. It took a long time for each lesson and in some cases, had unnecessarily complicated games. I felt it was one of those programs where half the review problems needed to be crossed off. But crossing off problems always makes me feel like we are missing something and/or wasting workbook.

I just can't add another math to my thinking at the moment 😉 but thanks for the suggestion!

I LOVE TGAB simply math but for whatever reason it hasn't been working, And its not just something new we really struggled last year too and ended up taking 6 weeks to 2 months off in the middle of the year just because it was a fight (It wasn't just him either I had to fight myself to want to do it). So I feel like I've given it a year and after starting up new after time off and still feeling this way I think we should switch.

[seemesew]

3 hours ago, MissLemon said:

I don't know if Horizons 3 has changed in the last few years, but when we used it 7 or 8 years ago, it was fairly colorful. 

It is colorful but NOTHING like The good and and the beautiful, they have full on gorgeous pictures intertwined with their math. Its really beautiful and so fun! Horizons is colorful but it isn't like that.

[seemesew]

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I felt that way with the old TGTB math, the new version I (so far) feel is just right. But..we do sometimes skip the game if there is one. 

Yes, the old was getting hard to want to do as well because of all the pieces, lol! The new really is SO much better! Its just feeling like a struggle and can't even say its him I'm realizing its me too. We both have a hard time with it. And I don't know why! It explains really well, is fun, and has logic.

I tried all the tips today and his focus was 100% better he got in and did his independent practice without any problems while I worked with my kindergartener ....then we got to the lesson and we were both struggling, I ended up just saying you did great lets stop, lol! Its not that its too hard or anything its just something...and I don't understand what is going on.

Edited August 24, 2022 by seemesew

[seemesew]

I just really hope I'm doing the right thing by switching! 😬🙈😭I don't want to buy it and then the same thing happen, i did that with my older kids and we just eventually had to stick with something and make it work. But he's never switched so i just don't know.

Edited August 25, 2022 by seemesew

[Lillyfee]

I just started TGTB math with my beginning 3rd grader and even though I love everything else I also think they teach the multiplication facts weird but thought I might try it. Now after what you said I wonder if I just teach it in number families how I learned it .

I mean of course you can change it up and teach in number families instead of the random groups. 

I will definitely stick with TGTB because it's such a fun math curriculum and my kids love it so much.

I also love TGTB language arts but don't do their spelling. We use All About Spelling instead.

[BusyMom5]

Seeing this a bit late.  For Saxon 4th and 5th grade, I bought an adaptation workbook and did the Intermediate version. In elementary I like to use different approaches and switch every few months.  Saxon is our spine, but I will pause and focus on different topics as needed,  using things like Math in Focus or Math Mammoth.  I recently got the new Primary Mathematics for my K kid, and I love it!  I will probably use that with Saxon for her.  

[Green Bean]

R&S Gr. 3: easy to teach, not expenisve, not colorful. He WILL know his facts afterwards. Definitely do every other row. Memoria Press has plans for it that break everything down to mangeable chunks, if you feel you need that.

https://www.milestonebooks.com/item/1-133--/?list=Mathematics_for_Christian_Living_Series

Scroll down to find the plans.

https://www.memoriapress.com/curriculum/individual-lesson-plans-subject/

I love BJU Math personally. But if it is just for the one year, it is not worth switching to as it is awfully expensive. 

I tried TGTB Math K this year and we had to stop. I felt it was greatly disjointed, did not introduce addition facts in any order, and did not develop concepts well. Since I had already introduced the addition familes ala R&S ducks in a pond stories, the random presentation of those didn't matter. Hearing what you said about multiplication facts makes me doubly glad we jumped ship early on.

HTH!

[Dianthus]

I'm using Abeka for elementary and switch to Saxon in 7th grade. I didn't go with Horizon because I thought the pages were too busy. Too many graphics and everything too close together (at least in K/1st). I don't really follow the curriculum plan but I like the worksheets. For younger grades, I also use RS and BCaOEJ games.

[seemesew]

UPDATE: So I have gone  ahead with many of your guys tips and things are going better. I did buy the multiplication songs and even though its not my normal I thought he may actually enjoy the music and so far he is after a week he almost has the first set memorized! We'll see how it ends up going but so far I think we've worked through the issues 🤞

[Lillyfee]

Yes, we started this week with the musical mulitplication and she has set A down and she has so much fun practicing thr fast with the songs

[kiwik]

Could you make greyscale copies of the workbook pages? 

[seemesew]

On 9/15/2022 at 6:50 PM, kiwik said:

Could you make greyscale copies of the workbook pages? 

Great idea! I think we could for most lessons some it may matter but not many.

[seemesew]

UPDATE #2 So we did switch to Horizons for a bit because I realized I just needed some time to figure things out and Horizons fit what we needed for then. After more than a month of it though I realized the main problem was him not being able to write his numbers quickly and not enough practice on his math facts (my fault because I let him skip more than I should have thinking he had mastered it) so we are back to tgab and he is doing much better! Lessons are going quicker and he is loving math again! Also we stared him on a supplement for add/adhd and his focus is 100% better! He was seriously having a hard time with focus but all the little changes we've made have been so helpful!