What are your HS triggers?

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. Please delete any quotes.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[LAS in LA]

Interesting question. I wouldn't call them triggers per se, but I definitely notice that I have more natural understanding with some of my children's thought patterns than with others. So it takes more work to sympathize with and understand what the "other" child is saying or meaning. Haven't analyzed why I feel the way I do -- way to be aware of your feelings and responses!

(FWIW - I can't imagine what would happen if I tried to add a Lego piece to one of DS12's creations! I don't think he'd appreciate that! 🤣)

[Shoeless]

Yes, identifying the issues has helped me curb troubling behavior.  I also grew up in a situation where I felt "unheard". It came to a head 3 years ago, I blew my stack in a pretty epic way, and spent about 2 years ranting and yelling about it to anyone who would listen. 

I think you could benefit from doing some deep reading on narcissism and dysfunctional parent/child relationships.  And therapy, if you can find the time and money.  When you bring up issues you are having with your daughter, you generally lead with info about your parents and how you related to them. I think there's something in there that you should investigate. 

Based on what you've shared, it sounds like you grew up with people who made you feel unheard. Your daughter is inadvertently pushing that button that makes you feel unheard. Her behavior is very typical for a kid; that's what all kids do from time to time, and the only cure there is time and maturity.   

That all the hard work to shift this dynamic has to be done by you. You've gotten some good advice in previous threads about how to de-escalate a situation when you are in the middle of it (take a break! have a snack! go for a walk! yoga! change your teaching approach!).  But I don't think those things will really fix the underlying issue.  

Your solution won't be found in trying to keep DD8 from pushing your buttons.  The solution comes from doing the hard work to remove those buttons and their associated programming. 

[kbutton]

20 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

Ouch, big trigger here too. My parents are not narcissistic though. 

My kids, thankfully, don't tend to do this, but I have people in my life that do. 

I declared the word too to be a swear word in some contexts. I was always too something, and too serious, as the lowest hanging fruit, was lobbed at me often and freely by all kinds of people from intimate friends to near strangers.

11 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Your solution won't be found in trying to keep DD8 from pushing your buttons.  The solution comes from doing the hard work to remove those buttons and their associated programming. 

So what kind of research could I do to help with these things? My family was not particularly dysfunctional (communication trigger) or narcissistic. I do have a therapist, and no, it's not made a big dent in being triggered. It does help to be able to vent about it and to gain a bigger vocabulary around triggers, but if this is progress, it's glacial.

Edited October 29, 2020 by kbutton

[HS Mom in NC]

And now for a dive into Homeschool Mom in AZ's adapting to being raised in the crazy:

I have a very complicated family background too, including a father who was divorced 3 times between the time I was 1 (my parents separated when I was a week old and my bio brother was 11 months old) to when I was 16 and I suffered a very difficult loss of my step-siblings I was close to when he divorced the last time.  My mother, who I lived with,  had a moderately high conflict second marriage from the time I was 3 to present day (no physical violence just constant arguments, mostly  because of her selfish, irrational  behaviors) and other very difficult daily factors built into blended family dynamics with my step-siblings who lived with us and one who visited, until the visiting one was abducted in a custodial interference situation. My mom and step-dad never said a word about her for years. I just had a step-sibling no longer come to visit or get mentioned. That's a small sampling of not the worst of it. Yeah, it was all a pile of batsh!t crazy to navigate as a kid.

I made a very clear, conscious choice before I had kids to not make parenting decisions and interactions based on my psychological inner child's unmet needs. I just wrote those off as a loss. I grieved the loss.  I've made no plans to get those met because the time for that has passed. I'm not a child anymore. It's unfillable. I don't even try to fill it. I like to call it the "gift of amputation."  I practice a much more compartmentalized approach to life because I don't want to spread the misery, I want the misery to end.  I don't want any of the mess touching my kids in any way.

Addressing those childhood issues is the responsibility of a licensed mental health professional. It requires years of specialized training and expertise and those are the only people I'd bring it up with. My husband knows what he needs to about it to function, but I've never gone into detail.  It sucked enough when it was happening, I don't want to drudge up the memories except in rare situations like this when I hope it's helpful to someone.

Don't interpret what I'm saying as more than I've said.  I'm not minimizing those types of issues and burying them or ignoring them.  My youngest is an international adoptee and I'm currently seeking out a counselor for her to talk to about adoptee issues because I don't want any of her childhood issues going unaddressed. I want her to say whatever she wants to without having to worry about my feelings because I know she needs to be heard and she'll have a professional help her process her feelings and voice them to maximum effect. My point is to take these weighty matters so seriously that I built a barrier between the crazy and my other family members so they don't cross contaminate subsequent generations and to find the appropriate help for them as needed.

It's not a matter of not meaning to, it's a matter of meaning not to.  The first is reactive, the latter is pro-active.  For me, being proactive meant a very cold, hard realistic look at what was possible and what wasn't.  Then it was the work of accepting that reality so thoroughly that I not only believed it in words, but evidenced it in my deeds. Then I had to decide what portions of my life were going to be spent focusing on the past, present, and future.  The vast majority of my mental and emotional focus is on the present and future.  Yes, I know there are times focusing on the past is appropriate and necessary, but when I do I look at it with a sense of permanence and resignation.  There is no possibility of changing the past or my inner child's experience with it.  The loss is final.  So there's no looking back with thoughts of what should have or could have been or convincing myself I'm right about it. I already know I'm right and they were wrong, so no more energy needs to be spent on that. It's like the final stage of grief: acceptance. No more attempts at bargaining. 

Also, being understood is usually overrated.  I'm an odd bird, I always have been.  I'm a female INTJ personality-very uncommon.  I had a weird childhood.  I've always been out of the mainstream.  All I care about is being respected and loved.  If I've explained myself and people don't really get it-oh well, I did what I could but it didn't work out the way I wanted.  That's life. I just move on. And how could they really get it? People who grew up outside the crazy can sympathize and try to understand, but it will never be the same as experiential understanding. Even being heard about my feelings of all that won't fix it, even if my parents had any interest in improving, which they don't.

I wouldn't put a piece in my kid's Lego structure because it would be rude to do so without getting her permission first. That's not about her wanting things her way, that's about respecting her as not being an extension of myself, but rather a separate individual, so I try to model respecting boundaries. I would correct her if she tried to put a Lego on someone else's structure without getting their permission first, so I can't be a hypocrite and do what I would tell her not to do.

[Ausmumof3]

Re the lego ... that would have very much been me as a child.  I was considered “very independent” of very stubborn or very determined.  According to my school reports.  My youngest kid is like me.  It’s both a strength and a weakness.  I’m going to relate it to math because that’s your thing, but my older two were very willing to accept my input, do it my way and not fully understand it.  Youngest emphatically does not want to be shown or taught.  But once he gets it he fully understands.  So I think while the urge to work it out themselves is frustrating to us it most likely leads to better long term learning. 
 

[Shoeless]

2 hours ago, kbutton said:

So what kind of research could I do to help with these things? My family was not particularly dysfunctional (communication trigger) or narcissistic. I do have a therapist, and no, it's not made a big dent in being triggered. It does help to be able to vent about it and to gain a bigger vocabulary around triggers, but if this is progress, it's glacial.

My family has some general narcissistic traits, but no one has a personality disorder, per se.  I had a HUGE blow out with my family that probably sped me down a path of progress faster than "normal".  I feel like I spent about 2 years rebuilding big parts of myself after the blow out with my family. It was hard and ugly.  I cried and yelled a lot for about 2 years.  

I read a heck of a lot about narcissistic and toxic relationships. Read a lot of Brene Brown, Cheryl Strayed, (all the Dear Sugar columns, plus her book Wild).  I read a lot of Captain Awkward.  Like, I read every single book or website that was written by a woman who'd been through some real hard $hit, but came out strong and empathetic on the other side.  I thought a lot about the type of person I wanted to be around my son.  I don't want him to be 40 and thinking "My mom is full of crap.  I can't trust her to be honest with me, so I'd rather not be around her".  So I thought, "ok, I need to learn to be comfortable with saying difficult things and feeling difficult emotions".  My family can't do that. The lengths they will go to in order to avoid uncomfortable feelings and words is crazy-making.  So I learned how to just sit with a hard situation/feeling and not panic because I didn't have the answer or because I had to tell someone an ugly truth.  

I feel like any further advice I would give would require a lot of background info, and my not be particularly helpful for you without knowing your specific issues.  Like, what do you think is the source of your communication issue? 

I'm fine with sharing my experience, I just don't want to waste your time with a lot of stuff that is unrelatable. 🙂 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by MissLemon

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. Please delete my quotes, thanks.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[TravelingChris]

8 hours ago, LAS in LA said:

Interesting question. I wouldn't call them triggers per se, but I definitely notice that I have more natural understanding with some of my children's thought patterns than with others. So it takes more work to sympathize with and understand what the "other" child is saying or meaning. Haven't analyzed why I feel the way I do -- way to be aware of your feelings and responses!

(FWIW - I can't imagine what would happen if I tried to add a Lego piece to one of DS12's creations! I don't think he'd appreciate that! 🤣)

THIS.  Only one of my three has similar ways of thinking to me.  But that also included being very stubborn.  In fact, all three of my kids were and are very stubborn.  When you are a parent of younger children, you often think that characteristics like being stubborn (that is just one example) are bad.  However, there is a very good side to being stubborn.  If you develop good character but are stubborn, you do not relent when bad stuff is happening.  It doesn't matter if everyone else is doing something wrong, you will stand up and not do it because of that inborn stubborness.  That stubborness helped both dh and I many times do the right thing.  It has now helped all three children in a number of situations.  Now one was more attuned to what others think but she is growing out of that too.

[Danae]

29 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

Yes, we pretty much never did, because she didn’t like it. (Sorry, for context, this was when she was 3 or 4, not now. She’s want us NEARBY but not contributing.) She point was that it was hard for her to collaborate, not that we overrode what she wanted. DD4 tends to like building together. This issue also comes up with other kids, because DD8 can be very “my game or nothing.” I respect that part of her personality, just like I respect just about everything that makes my kids individuals (I’d say I’m much better at this than average), but it’s something specific about her that’s probably worth her working on.

I have this trait, I think.  Sometimes I don’t want anyone else to contribute because I want everything done in a very precise way and I don’t want anyone to mess it up, sometimes it’s because I want the accomplishment of completing something and it would be cheating if someone else helps.
 

One thing I’ve found that helps is to be very clear, with myself and others, when something is a potential shared project that I’m happy to have help with and when it’s a thing that I’m doing for me and want to finish myself. Knowing which is which makes me a better collaborator and more willing to accept help, because otherwise I default to “keep your fingers out of my stuff.”  As an adult I also make sure that if I’m doing something that looks fun/interesting around other people that I have some extra supplies so that if someone wants to try it they can do so without affecting my project.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Danae

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 29, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Familia]

Old trigger, because I am long done with homeschooling, but I found it internally disconcerting when dc did not get what I was trying to communicate in lessons - lessons in which I was doing things differently or trying  a new technique.  I felt criticized. 

For example, at the beginning of narration or dictation or outlining, (any subject could be a problem) if dc wasn't getting it, I became very frustrated sometimes.   Subconsciously it was at myself.  Outwardly, I was only conscious of the child first not doing it 'right', then their escalating frustration.  Hence, sometimes things got to a point where I saw a 'bad attitude' in them and blamed the child for that.  If I had been more attuned to the real fact that I felt, irrationally/internally, criticized, I would have had more understanding and patience.  

Overall, things went well, so dc say, but if I could change anything about our homeschooling, it would have been to realize this was going on sooner.  Instead of feeling criticized and questioning every method, I would have stepped back and asked myself what I was really trying to teach in a given circumstance, and, at times, abandon the 'method' for simply communicating the facts of what they were trying to learn.  I don't think I am wording this well.  Anyway, I wish I had been more patient and lighthearted more of the time, especially with eldest.

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Familia]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Yes. I’m seeing this in myself as well, and I’m hoping that being aware of that sensation helps.

You will be so glad you at least worked on it.  Self awareness, as you said you were attuned to, is so much of the battle.  Best wishes!

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 29, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Little Green Leaves]

Nm

Edited October 29, 2020 by Little Green Leaves

[Little Green Leaves]

26 minutes ago, Familia said:

Old trigger, because I am long done with homeschooling, but I found it internally disconcerting when dc did not get what I was trying to communicate in lessons - lessons in which I was doing things differently or trying  a new technique.  I felt criticized. 

For example, at the beginning of narration or dictation or outlining, (any subject could be a problem) if dc wasn't getting it, I became very frustrated sometimes.   Subconsciously it was at myself.  Outwardly, I was only conscious of the child first not doing it 'right', then their escalating frustration.  Hence, sometimes things got to a point where I saw a 'bad attitude' in them and blamed the child for that.  If I had been more attuned to the real fact that I felt, irrationally/internally, criticized, I would have had more understanding and patience.  

Overall, things went well, so dc say, but if I could change anything about our homeschooling, it would have been to realize this was going on sooner.  Instead of feeling criticized and questioning every method, I would have stepped back and asked myself what I was really trying to teach in a given circumstance, and, at times, abandon the 'method' for simply communicating the facts of what they were trying to learn.  I don't think I am wording this well.  Anyway, I wish I had been more patient and lighthearted more of the time, especially with eldest.

I love the way you worded this 🙂 and I completely relate. Thank you!

[Acadie]

20 minutes ago, Familia said:

You will be so glad you at least worked on it.  Self awareness, as you said you were attuned to, is so much of the battle. 

My girls are both teens, and the oldest in particular was a very spirited child. Adolescence has not been so bad (and she's in college now). I really think all the work we did as parents to examine our own triggers, expectations and communication, and to deeply accept the fact that she is her own person, have helped in adolescence. I see some friends whose kids were easy as pie in their younger years having major trouble learning how to talk with their teens, and accept and respect their independence. 

I guess what I'm saying is that if a child breaks parents in early, and if parents are willing to do the work of self-reflection and personal growth, it can be really good for your relationships long term. Developing self-awareness, emotional intelligence and communication skills are lifelong projects, and the work we do as parents while our kids are still young helps them develop in those areas too. Therapy, mindfulness and studying nonviolent communication continue to be helpful to me.

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[HS Mom in NC]

34 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

That’s interesting 🙂 . See, I do very minimal direct teaching, so it’s rarely a lack of understanding of my teaching that’s the issue. It’s more like... things like whining when told to do work, or being sloppy when asked to redo (with instructions on HOW to redo), or looking down and looking pouty when I gently explain what the issues are.

So, basically my triggers are things where I feel like my attempts to engage are being totally shot down and DD8 is making things harder for herself.

One thing I’m realizing is that I gotta decide what I can do and what I can’t, and I gotta stop minding people incurring consequences of their own behavior. I feel BAD giving DD8 extra work, so I try to help more and more, and it just doesn’t work.

Really, if she’s grumpy, she’ll just need to deal with the consequences. It’s not my job to fix that for her. Trying to help someone solve their problem then getting frustrated because they aren’t able to use the help is pointless.

Having been raised in the crazy in a large family, I've watched different adult children of it respond differently to it. I've had some conversations over they years with others from that background, and it's not unusual for couples to pair up in part because they feel understood by their partners of similar background.  I've seen what I think are reactions similar to yours.

I've also homeschooled for 20 years now in huge homeschooling communities and I've been here at TWTM boards off and on for more than a decade, so I have a sense of how wide the range of "normal" homeschoolers are.

You seem wildly over-sensitive to your child's very normal kid behaviors.  Children aren't mini adults. Based on your posts, you give the impression (to me at least) that you, the adult, are uncomfortable with your child responding to your efforts without immediate enthusiasm, which is disturbing.  You seem to be the center of all of your child's behavior in your own mind. You appear to take personally your child's normal behaviors. And being that bothered that a child might be experiencing temporary emotional discomfort is a big red flag of a parent's  underlying psychological issue that needs addressing.  You need to talk to a licensed mental health professional as soon as possible, not strangers on the internet. Your need for validation from your child has to end because it is/will become toxic-it can't be/become anything else.

Homeschooling isn't for everyone, and it's possible it's not a good fit for your family at this time based on your posts.  There are very experienced homeschoolers giving you solid, time tested homeschooling perspectives and advice that you immediately reject, yet you keep asking questions while you don't seem to want to make any changes by applying those answers.  You should ask yourself what it is you really want. It appears to me you want us to categorically validate all of your thoughts, feeling, and approaches. 

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 29, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 29, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[hippiemamato3]

15 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

That’s REALLY harsh. And I don’t think it’s in any way a fair response to things I said, which have been aimed at picking part my own internal unproductive behaviors (and as a result overfocus on things I do badly.)

I don’t even know what to say to this post. I feel like engaging with it is simply getting me into a pointless scuffle, since it’s such a misrepresentation of what I said. I don’t know if you’re projecting other experiences or what, but I’d think deeply about what, exactly, is the point of trying to PUSH strangers on the Internet might be for you. 

I think it's pretty accurate based on the picture of your life you've posted here and on numerous other threads. I hope you are able to get some help. 

[sweet2ndchance]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

All right, I’m unequivocally done with saying anything else that may be misconstrued in public.

Then there isn't much you can say at all. Growing up with and having formerly been married to narcissists, if I know anything, it is that anything I say can be misconstrued. I have walked myself in circles for years trying to make sure what I say can't be twisted in a way I didn't intend. I end up not saying much at all when I do that.

This is the Well Trained Mind boards. They are famous, even infamous, for decades now for being candid and at times brutally honest. There are other communities on the internet that have been started because people feel too vulnerable or are too thin skinned to tolerate the type of advice given and conversations that go on here. If you don't find the advice given here helpful, you may be better off finding a different community to post these types of questions.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, sweet2ndchance said:

Then there isn't much you can say at all. Growing up with and having formerly been married to narcissists, if I know anything, it is that anything I say can be misconstrued. I have walked myself in circles for years trying to make sure what I say can't be twisted in a way I didn't intend. I end up not saying much at all when I do that.

This is the Well Trained Mind boards. They are famous, even infamous, for decades now for being candid and at times brutally honest. There are other communities on the internet that have been started because people feel too vulnerable or are too thin skinned to tolerate the type of advice given and conversations that go on here. If you don't find the advice given here helpful, you may be better off finding a different community to post these types of questions.

I don’t mind usually. I’m pretty willing to give people a piece of my mind in exchange for theirs. However, I find it jarring and unpleasant in a thread that requires a certain amount of courage and vulnerability to post. 

But it is certainly unreasonable to expect empathy from a world of anonymous Internet posters. I’ve gotten the information I’ve needed from this thread. Thank you for everyone who participated in an empathic way.

[kbutton]

8 hours ago, MissLemon said:

So I thought, "ok, I need to learn to be comfortable with saying difficult things and feeling difficult emotions".  My family can't do that. The lengths they will go to in order to avoid uncomfortable feelings and words is crazy-making.  So I learned how to just sit with a hard situation/feeling and not panic because I didn't have the answer or because I had to tell someone an ugly truth.  

I feel like any further advice I would give would require a lot of background info, and my not be particularly helpful for you without knowing your specific issues.  Like, what do you think is the source of your communication issue? 

I'm fine with sharing my experience, I just don't want to waste your time with a lot of stuff that is unrelatable. 🙂 

The bolded gives me hope because that's what I am learning to do, and I think I am doing it pretty well. 

The rest I'd have to think about.