Smoothie Shred & Reversing autoimmune disease

[Katy]

28 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

The people I know that have success with it are at the point where it is the only thing that doesn't trigger excessive food cravings for them, and that let them go from morbidly or supermorbidly obese to a healthy weight where they can exercise and enjoylife. It may not be ideal in theory, but the healthy mediterranean type diets cause them to have uncontrollable food cravings and obesity...so for them, a less than ideal diet that keeps them active and not morbidly obese is better than the theoretical diet that doesn't do that, you know? I don't think the standard person benefits from such an extreme diet - but those that find it works often had nothing else that did. 

I can’t imagine a carnivore diet for me; too much protein literally makes me sweat ammonia and feel like I have the flu. I’m generally happiest eating mostly vegetarian with some shellfish occasionally. DH loves carnivore, but only if he eats Ribeye. He doesn’t like burger and he couldn’t justify spending so much on steak. 

24 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Maybe this is a stupid question, but why smoothies instead of solid food? Is it to cram more greens in than one could possibly eat? (I love greens, but the thought of the smoothie texture makes me gag.)

Yes, the goal is at least 1.5 lbs of leafy greens in a smoothie plus additional raw vegetables in a salad. 

24 minutes ago, regentrude said:

do you have any local farmers?

I’m sure there are but we’re on lockdown for another month until the littles are vaccinated. I’m not going to try a crowded farmer’s market until then. There is a farm stand North of our neighborhood but so far they only have watermelon and sweet corn. 

[Katy]

Something weird is happening with the board today. 
 

@regentrude I typed out this thing about making smoothies taste better and it disappeared. The short version is freeze your (pre washed) greens. Try something mild like spinach or baby kale. Include a frozen overripe banana. Include some of your favorite other fruit like mango or berries. Add artificial sweetener or a few pitted dates if it’s still not good. Add a tablespoon of cocoa powder and make the fruit frozen cherries if you like cherry chocolate flavor. To start the goal is making it taste good while still cramming in the nutrients. 

Obviously if you’re ill and need recovery right away being strict for maximum healing might be worth it. But if you’re a mostly healthy overtired and achey mom who just wants to feel healthier and happier, don’t let the perfect be the enemy of better. Add whatever it takes to make a pound and a half of spinach taste good. 

[ScoutTN]

Any suggestions for making a tasty low carb green smoothie?

I have yet to find one I’d make twice. I cannot use a banana or lots of fruit. I am diabetic 1.5 and not on insulin. Most smoothies are way too carby for me. All the keto ones taste like grass or like creamy grass! 🤣

[Corraleno]

48 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Maybe this is a stupid question, but why smoothies instead of solid food? Is it to cram more greens in than one could possibly eat? (I love greens, but the thought of the smoothie texture makes me gag.)

For me it's just a convenient way to get a lot of greens for breakfast, plus it's a way to grind up flax and chia seeds for better absorption. I use a lot of ice so my smoothies aren't too thick and they're super cold (warm smoothies gross me out). My other go-to option for breakfast-with-greens is a tofu scramble, but I can get a lot more greens into a smoothie, plus it's a lot faster and less work. And I still eat lots of whole greens and veg in addition to the smoothies; lunch is usually a big salad with a variety of greens & raw veggies plus some seeds/nuts/legumes, and then dinner is some combo of veg/grains/legumes (stir fry with bok choy, red peppers, broccoli, shiitake mushrooms, crispy tofu;  curry with lentils, carrots, cauliflower, peas, spinach, brown basmati; whole grain pasta with roasted peppers, zucchini, blistered tomatoes, portobello mushrooms, arugula, cannellini beans, toasted pine nuts; warm quinoa salad with black beans, roasted corn, tomatoes, red onion, orange peppers, romaine, salsa; Buddha bowl with wild rice medley, roasted Brussels sprouts and orange & purple sweet potatoes, spiced chickpeas, garlicky sautéed chard, maple tahini sauce, etc.). 

[regentrude]

54 minutes ago, Katy said:

Something weird is happening with the board today. 
 

@regentrude I typed out this thing about making smoothies taste better and it disappeared. The short version is freeze your (pre washed) greens. Try something mild like spinach or baby kale. Include a frozen overripe banana. Include some of your favorite other fruit like mango or berries. Add artificial sweetener or a few pitted dates if it’s still not good. Add a tablespoon of cocoa powder and make the fruit frozen cherries if you like cherry chocolate flavor. To start the goal is making it taste good while still cramming in the nutrients. 

Obviously if you’re ill and need recovery right away being strict for maximum healing might be worth it. But if you’re a mostly healthy overtired and achey mom who just wants to feel healthier and happier, don’t let the perfect be the enemy of better. Add whatever it takes to make a pound and a half of spinach taste good. 

Thanks. It's not the taste but the texture... and since my 50s, I can rarely eat anything before lunch. I'm fine and have no ailments to cure, was just curious. Thanks all.

[Katy]

50 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

Any suggestions for making a tasty low carb green smoothie?

I have yet to find one I’d make twice. I cannot use a banana or lots of fruit. I am diabetic 1.5 and not on insulin. Most smoothies are way too carby for me. All the keto ones taste like grass or like creamy grass! 🤣

Extra flax or chia to increase fat & fiber, maybe lemon or lime, coconut, and a few lower glycemic index berries lime strawberries? Or skip the fruit entirely and use one of those zero calorie zero carb sugar free flavor syrups? 

[Corraleno]

15 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

Any suggestions for making a tasty low carb green smoothie?

I have yet to find one I’d make twice. I cannot use a banana or lots of fruit. I am diabetic 1.5 and not on insulin. Most smoothies are way too carby for me. All the keto ones taste like grass or like creamy grass! 🤣

What is your cutoff for carbs in a smoothie? If you are trying to disguise the taste of the greens, there are whey and egg based protein powders that are low-to-no carb and could add some flavor. One of the best tasting (IMO) vegan protein powders is Orgain Chocolate Fudge, which uses stevia and erythritol; 2 scoops = 15 g total carbs but only 3 g net carbs. Peanutbutter is 4 g carbs, 2 g net carbs per TBL. A couple scoops of chocolate protein powder plus a couple TBL of peanut butter plus greens, a little cold water, and lots of ice, might be tasty and fairly low carb. Or you could try chocolate protein powder with a TBL of almond butter (1.3 g net) and some frozen raspberries (5 g net carbs per 100g/3.5 oz),

[ScoutTN]

8 minutes ago, Katy said:

Extra flax or chia to increase fat & fiber, maybe lemon or lime, coconut, and a few lower glycemic index berries lime strawberries? Or skip the fruit entirely and use one of those zero calorie zero carb sugar free flavor syrups? 

I’m not much on sf syrups. They all taste weird to me. The aftertaste if the alternative sweeteners overrides the flavoring.

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

Add whatever it takes to make a pound and a half of spinach taste good. 

Whoa, that's a LOT of spinach. is there concern about oxalates? About binding iron? (I finally got my anemia under control when I realized my daily spinach was interfering with iron absorption)

[Katy]

9 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Whoa, that's a LOT of spinach. is there concern about oxalates? About binding iron? (I finally got my anemia under control when I realized my daily spinach was interfering with iron absorption)

No to the oxalates.  She had some medical explanation for why that isn't a concern that I can no longer remember.  Some people do need iron supplements. A fair number of people with histamine issues apparently can't tolerate it because it releases histamine, though it doesn't seem to be a problem for me.  I read somewhere else that was likely a microbiome thing, which is why some people have a histamine reaction to some foods and others don't.

Anyway it doesn't have to be spinach.  Some people like kale or chard or napa cabbage.  Any leafy vegetable that tastes good raw is fine.  I guess cruciferous vegetables heal faster than spinach.  I rotate with what I can find but I seem to feel best on spinach days, no clue why.

[scholastica]

12 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Whoa, that's a LOT of spinach. is there concern about oxalates? About binding iron? (I finally got my anemia under control when I realized my daily spinach was interfering with iron absorption)

This is really important and often unknown.

[Katy]

1 minute ago, scholastica said:

This is really important and often unknown.

She's had thousands of people go through the program and never had a problem with oxylates.  She does have an explanation but I'm sorry to say I don't recall it.  I've never had any kind of problem with them.

[Selkie]

33 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Whoa, that's a LOT of spinach. is there concern about oxalates? About binding iron? (I finally got my anemia under control when I realized my daily spinach was interfering with iron absorption)

Here's what Dr. Goldner says about it on her Facebook page:

"As a rule, green smoothies do not cause kidney stones!

The most common cause of kidney stones are dehydration, high meat intake and low vegetable intake. 

High vegetable intake is protective against kidney stones.

Now there are rare cases of people who are more susceptible to kidney stones from eating high oxalate foods and they can develop stones when eating vegetables with oxalates. 

It's a rare genetic condition or caused by gastric bypass surgery or certain diseases like diabetes or kidney failure. 

However, 1) the people who have this susceptibility are likely to get kidney stones no matter what, regardless of diet and dose of oxalates, and 2)those folks still benefit from hyper-nourishment, we just take the spinach out since it's the highest in oxalates.

I have had many clients reverse kidney failure and diabetes on my smoothies and I have had numerous clients with gastric bypass who reversed their autoimmune diseases and they did not develop stones. 

I address this topic at length in my book Goodbye Autoimmune Disease. 

Hope this helps!"

[Corraleno]

I believe Dr. Goldner that that has been her experience, but other plant-based doctors, like Michael Greger, are more cautious about oxylates: Dr. Greger's video on oxylates

Edited July 14, 2022 by Corraleno

[Cecropia]

10 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I believe Dr. Goldner that that has been her experience, but other plant-based doctors, like Michael Greger, are more cautious about oxylates: Dr. Greger's video on oxylates

So what is considered moderation for greens like spinach and swiss chard?  I've been eating one or both every day for months, and I guess I should cut back.  No history of kidney stones for me, but my mom had them once. 

(Of course, swiss chard is the only leafy green that grows vigorously and mostly pest-free in my garden!)

[Selkie]

27 minutes ago, Cecropia said:

So what is considered moderation for greens like spinach and swiss chard?  I've been eating one or both every day for months, and I guess I should cut back.  No history of kidney stones for me, but my mom had them once. 

(Of course, swiss chard is the only leafy green that grows vigorously and mostly pest-free in my garden!)

I looked on Dr. Fuhrman’s Ask the Doctor forum and he said that in his experience treating thousands of patients, it is rare for oxalates in spinach and chard to cause stones. He does recommend limiting consumption of spinach and chard, just out of caution. He did not specify an amount, just said that limited amounts of spinach and chard are fine, but they should not comprise the majority of your greens intake.

[Cecropia]

16 minutes ago, Selkie said:

I looked on Dr. Fuhrman’s Ask the Doctor forum and he said that in his experience treating thousands of patients, it is rare for oxalates in spinach and chard to cause stones. He does recommend limiting consumption of spinach and chard, just out of caution. He did not specify an amount, just said that limited amounts of spinach and chard are fine, but they should not comprise the majority of your greens intake.

Hmm, I wish that amount could be pinned down a little more.  A spinach salad is easily 2 cups.  Maybe I'll just have it 2-3 times a week?  Makes me sad, though. 🙁 Sometimes it seems like all the foods are out to kill us...

[Selkie]

5 minutes ago, Cecropia said:

Hmm, I wish that amount could be pinned down a little more.  A spinach salad is easily 2 cups.  Maybe I'll just have it 2-3 times a week?  Makes me sad, though. 🙁 Sometimes it seems like all the foods are out to kill us...

That’s what I do - I have spinach or chard maybe twice a week, and I often steam them or have them in soup, since cooking reduces oxalates. For daily greens, I stick with lettuce, kale, arugula, turnip greens, collards, bok choy, Napa cabbage.

[Selkie]

On 4/21/2021 at 4:42 PM, ktgrok said:

I have to wonder ...I see people with these kinds of resutls on whole foods plant based, and also on carnivore style...total opposites...but both eliminating frankenfoods, weird oils, etc. Gotta wonder if that is the main issue. 

Thought of this thread when I saw the video on Dr. Brooke Goldner's Facebook today. She discusses how people think they are getting healthier on meat-heavy diets because they are losing weight and seeing improved labs, but it is actually causing devastating negative effects on their health.

https://www.facebook.com/DrGoldner/videos/761343618233482

Her brief summary of what she discusses (she goes into a much more detailed explanation in the video):

"On the surface it can seem that many different diets can offer similar benefits for disease reversal, especially when scrolling through google, YouTube or any social media.

The truth is that while many diets can appear to give similar results – like weight loss and reduction of HbA1c (measurement of average blood sugar), the mechanism of how the results come about and the impact on overall health between plant-based and meat-based diets could not be more different.

I bring up the example of diabetes today because of a recent wellness appointment for a gentleman with kidney failure who needs my help to reverse his disease, whose wife insisted that she needed a different diet than him because her issues were “metabolic” rather than renal. 

I decided to flip on the camera and explain why this is an incorrect and dangerous diet to help others who believe the same thing. Not to stir up controversy, but to save lives.

She has been faithfully using the Ketogenic or keto diet to successfully lose weight and lower her HbA1c, which she believes means she has reversed her diabetes. Unfortunately, as I explain in the video, she has hidden the evidence of her diabetes while increasing her insulin resistance and increasing her risks of heart disease, cancer, and other diseases like autoimmune diseases. Even doctors who rely on the HbA1c test who have not considered the physiology of HbA1c have made this mistake to the great detriment of their patients.

Heart attacks are the most common cause of death, even in people with diabetes and autoimmune diseases, so this diet that focuses on meat and animal fat for the primary food source actually increases your risk of heart attack and death, even while you look slimmer and your labs appear more favorable. I have also had multiple people come to me who developed kidney failure while on the keto diet.

Also important is the lack of vitamins, minerals, and anti-oxidants on the keto diet which make people more susceptible to cancer, autoimmune diseases, and prolonged infections as the COVID research I mentioned also indicates."

 

[scholastica]

On 7/13/2022 at 9:42 PM, Selkie said:

Here's what Dr. Goldner says about it on her Facebook page:

"As a rule, green smoothies do not cause kidney stones!

The most common cause of kidney stones are dehydration, high meat intake and low vegetable intake. 

High vegetable intake is protective against kidney stones.

Now there are rare cases of people who are more susceptible to kidney stones from eating high oxalate foods and they can develop stones when eating vegetables with oxalates. 

It's a rare genetic condition or caused by gastric bypass surgery or certain diseases like diabetes or kidney failure. 

However, 1) the people who have this susceptibility are likely to get kidney stones no matter what, regardless of diet and dose of oxalates, and 2)those folks still benefit from hyper-nourishment, we just take the spinach out since it's the highest in oxalates.

I have had many clients reverse kidney failure and diabetes on my smoothies and I have had numerous clients with gastric bypass who reversed their autoimmune diseases and they did not develop stones. 

I address this topic at length in my book Goodbye Autoimmune Disease. 

Hope this helps!"

This doesn’t address the anemia caused by binding iron, just kidney stones. Two different problems. 

[Selkie]

44 minutes ago, scholastica said:

This doesn’t address the anemia caused by binding iron, just kidney stones. Two different problems. 

Right, I didn’t find anything from her re. binding.

[Katy]

45 minutes ago, scholastica said:

This doesn’t address the anemia caused by binding iron, just kidney stones. Two different problems. 

I used to have nearly chronic anemia and haven’t had a problem since starting this. When I veered off it and only had a few smoothies a week I stayed healthier than before too. To be fair I don’t have labs, but from energy levels and the color of my gums (which were always accurate before).

From other research I suspect a combination of eating more fiber healing the gut and the large quantity of vitamin C increasing absorption. Also my periods are far lighter when I stick to this, which probably helps more than any other factor. 

When I was vegetarian when younger I did have a problem with iodine deficiency though. That gave me a thyroid problem. I had a doctor supervise (with lab tests) a trial switching from levothyroxine to Iodoral iodine supplement to make sure it was from a deficiency not autoimmune and my labs improved dramatically. 

Obviously an anecdote isn’t data. Some people on this diet do need iron supplements. 

[Selkie]

Also, it's not like her plan requires spinach. There are a huge variety of greens that work for people who have problems with oxalates. Spinach was just mentioned as an example upthread, I think. 

[Soror]

I think many women have problems with anemia even if not vegan. I know plenty that have had that issue and none were even veg. I'm not either and I still take iron. Maybe when I fully go into menopause I won't have to anymore (although even now my periods are light).

[Selkie]

2 minutes ago, Soror said:

I think many women have problems with anemia even if not vegan. I know plenty that have had that issue and none were even veg. I'm not either and I still take iron. Maybe when I fully go into menopause I won't have to anymore (although even now my periods are light).

True, and there are many vegans who never have a problem with anemia. I've been vegan for many years and my bloodwork is always great. I don't take any iron supplements.

[Grace Hopper]

On 7/14/2022 at 9:28 AM, Cecropia said:

Hmm, I wish that amount could be pinned down a little more.  A spinach salad is easily 2 cups.  Maybe I'll just have it 2-3 times a week?  Makes me sad, though. 🙁 Sometimes it seems like all the foods are out to kill us...

I prep grab and go salad greens in 2-cup portions. I’ve been using a spring mix blend with chopped romaine tossed in, all rinsed and portioned out. So I get some spinach every day I eat a salad (which I plan to do daily but miss some days). I’d love to have a firmer idea of what levels are considered safe/low risk. I can’t do kale because it’s been giving me an oral allergy syndrome sort of reaction - burning tongue and weird mouth feel. I love cooked turnip/cabbage/mustard greens, too, but they are not convenient for chilled tossed green salads. 

[Katy]

35 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

I prep grab and go salad greens in 2-cup portions. I’ve been using a spring mix blend with chopped romaine tossed in, all rinsed and portioned out. So I get some spinach every day I eat a salad (which I plan to do daily but miss some days). I’d love to have a firmer idea of what levels are considered safe/low risk. I can’t do kale because it’s been giving me an oral allergy syndrome sort of reaction - burning tongue and weird mouth feel. I love cooked turnip/cabbage/mustard greens, too, but they are not convenient for chilled tossed green salads. 

I’ve heard doctors say it’s all low risk unless you have underlying kidney disease. 
 

I’m sorry about oral allergy syndrome. That stinks. 

[Selkie]

50 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

I prep grab and go salad greens in 2-cup portions. I’ve been using a spring mix blend with chopped romaine tossed in, all rinsed and portioned out. So I get some spinach every day I eat a salad (which I plan to do daily but miss some days). I’d love to have a firmer idea of what levels are considered safe/low risk. I can’t do kale because it’s been giving me an oral allergy syndrome sort of reaction - burning tongue and weird mouth feel. I love cooked turnip/cabbage/mustard greens, too, but they are not convenient for chilled tossed green salads. 

Two cups is a small amount and the spinach is only a portion of that, right? That does not seem like it would be problematic unless you are one of the rare people who is sensitive to oxalates (Dr. Goldner and Dr. Fuhrman both said it is rare). For most people, it is other foods in their diet that are more likely to cause kidney stones.

Ideas for greens: Other types of lettuce, arugula, bok choy, endive, frisée, Napa cabbage, microgreens. I actually like turnip greens, collards, and all kinds of cabbage raw, but maybe I'm an oddball that way.🙂

 

[Grace Hopper]

29 minutes ago, Katy said:

I’ve heard doctors say it’s all low risk unless you have underlying kidney disease. 
 

I’m sorry about oral allergy syndrome. That stinks. 

Ok I don’t have any signs of kidney disease, as far as I know, and I’ve had some pretty thorough exams. 

And it is a bummer about the kale, because it’s such a good green. I can take it in small amounts if I use baby leaves and sauté them for a mixed bowl with quinoa and other veggies. Just not green in a salad. It’s weird because kale is the only thing that does it to me. 

4 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Two cups is a small amount and the spinach is only a portion of that, right? That does not seem like it would be problematic unless you are one of the rare people who is sensitive to oxalates (Dr. Goldner and Dr. Fuhrman both said it is rare). For most people, it is other foods in their diet that are more likely to cause kidney stones.

Ideas for greens: Other types of lettuce, arugula, bok choy, endive, frisée, Napa cabbage, microgreens. I actually like turnip greens, collards, and all kinds of cabbage raw, but maybe I'm an oddball that way.🙂

 

True, it’s definitely not two cups of spinach daily. I can do raw cabbage, but not every day in salads and not I. Large amounts. I love coleslaw but have to be careful not to overeat it. I only make it these days if we are having lots of company because I would eat all I make and then would pay for it. 😂

I really need to up my shopping game to one of the Whole Foods type markets where there is a wider variety of greens than at my local grocery chains.