Ausmumof3 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 13 hours ago, Tanaqui said: That's right up there with "let's not bring politics into this" for rage factor, in my eyes. Our prime minister said in his address last night “I’m not interested in the politics of this”... kinda odd choice of words for a politician. I know what he means but at some point it becomes a cop out 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I’ve been following a few news outlets from China. They really mostly only post positive news or reframe anything negative as a positive. I think that’s incredibly dangerous. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 9 hours ago, SKL said: So you see a danger in posting positive actual facts but no parallel concern in posting exclusively negative actual facts. As for your comment connecting "being negative" to "factual" information, I'm not sure if you are saying positive info is not "factual," or if you are implying that positive posters are too stupid to know that some of the actual facts are bad. I don't see why those messages should annoy you, unless you believe the whole world is reading into them the additional words "so the dead people don't matter." Which is IMO a completely illogical reading of those comments. Basically I am reading your posts to mean that hope is stupid. So I guess I don't agree with you. Hope is necessary. Okay, well, I give up, SKL. I’ve clarified it to the best of my ability and am not interested in trying any longer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 14 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said: For people without health insurance, a "survivable" form of this virus could be an instant entryway into lifelong bankruptcy and/or poverty. There are an estimated 30 million people in this country without health insurance. And those of us who buy our own private health insurance instead of an employer handing it to us are paying $1000+ monthly in addition to individual deductibles like $6800 for my recent emergency surgery and $13,000 family deductibles. That's for in network. providers only. There is no limit to out of network providers, and what are the odds when services are overwhelmed that people will have an in network provider available? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneezyone Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: And those of us who buy our own private health insurance instead of an employer handing it to us are paying $1000+ monthly in addition to individual deductibles like $6800 for my recent emergency surgery and $13,000 family deductibles. That's for in network. providers only. There is no limit to out of network providers, and what are the odds when services are overwhelmed that people will have an in network provider available? Washington, NY, CA and perhaps others states (I don't know) have required insurers to waive out-of-pocket costs for COVID testing. Insurers have also agreed to waive in/out-of-network fees for treatment. https://www.ahip.org/health-insurance-providers-respond-to-coronavirus-covid-19/ Edited March 30, 2020 by Sneezyone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Sneezyone said: Washington, NY, CA and perhaps others states (I don't know) have required insurers to waive out-of-pocket costs for COVID testing and treatment. What about when the system overwhelmed so people can't get treatment for things in earlier stages and have to wait until it's a full blown emergency ? What about when they designate a single hospital for all COVID treatment and people are forced to go to other hospitals and providers out of network for other treatments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneezyone Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Just now, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: What about when the system overwhelmed so people can't get treatment for things in earlier stages and have to wait until it's a full blown emergency ? What about when they designate a single hospital for all COVID treatment and people are forced to go to other hospitals and providers out of network for other treatments? I have also seen reports of out of network costs being waived. I did not look for an article tho. The system will be overwhelmed for people regardless of their insured/uninsured status. Urgent cares, as far as I know, are still seeing non-COVID patients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Sneezyone said: I have also seen reports of out of network costs being waived. I did not look for an article tho. The system will be overwhelmed for people regardless of their insured/uninsured status. Urgent cares, as far as I know, are still seeing non-COVID patients. I hope so. Urgent cares can't help with real emergencies. And non-COVID is currently nonsense. Until there's large scale testing, no one without symptoms knows if it's because they don't have it or because they're a stealth carrier. Meanwhile, many of them will visit urgent cares and expose people there. The difference is, those paying for private insurance will be hit much harder hit financially than those who get employer paid insurance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 16 hours ago, SKL said: Well since I don't know the exact quote that prompted you to post this thread, I guess I can't really tell if I agree or disagree with you. But assuming for argument's sake (as you did) that the 98% is true, how can it be "misleading" to quantify the same exact fact in a positive tone vs. a negative tone? Are you assuming people old enough to be on social media are too stupid to understand what 2% / 98% means? It causes things to happen like young immature teachers at my son’s school to tell the kids the illness is no big deal, all just media hype. It causes things like the kids themselves rolling their eyes and rebelling and genre acting like ignorant turds as parents try to rein them in. (Personal experience.) They tend to be relatively oblivious of danger even if it clearly affects them (speeding, drifting, etc in cars) at certain ages. And telling them (falsely in fact) that 98% of cases are “mild” or that they are “immune” tends to increase reckless behavior, putting everyone in greater danger. And very possibly increasing risk that the 20% or so of cases serious to need hospital will have a greater number dying rather than recovering if hospitals are overwhelmed. But, again, a good news only thread would be fine. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Pen said: It causes things to happen like young immature teachers at my son’s school to tell the kids the illness is no big deal, all just media hype. It causes things like the kids themselves rolling their eyes and rebelling and genre acting like ignorant turds as parents try to rein them in. (Personal experience.) They tend to be relatively oblivious of danger even if it clearly affects them (speeding, drifting, etc in cars) at certain ages. And telling them (falsely in fact) that 98% of cases are “mild” or that they are “immune” tends to increase reckless behavior, putting everyone in greater danger. And very possibly increasing risk that the 20% or so of cases serious to need hospital will have a greater number dying rather than recovering if hospitals are overwhelmed. But, again, a good news only thread would be fine. Nobody is advocating telling people false information. Nobody is against teaching kids/ young people (factually) how and why to be careful. I can't understand how people are reading into everything. Sometimes words just mean what they say. Anyway, this thread is annoying me and I have a lot of work to do. I'm going to try not to open it again. Edited March 30, 2020 by SKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 35 minutes ago, SKL said: Nobody is advocating telling people false information. Nobody is against teaching kids/ young people (factually) how and why to be careful. I can't understand how people are reading into everything. Sometimes words just mean what they say. Anyway, this thread is annoying me and I have a lot of work to do. I'm going to try not to open it again. Good plan. I think me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 The thing that annoys me the most about people complaining about not seeing the recovery rate is the assumption that "people are hiding something." No, they simply can't say what the survival rate is yet. Stop assuming everything is a conspiracy. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, SKL said: Nobody is advocating telling people false information. Anyone saying 98% of cases recover or are mild is almost certainly telling people false information. Quote Nobody is against teaching kids/ young people (factually) how and why to be careful. I can't understand how people are reading into everything. Sometimes words just mean what they say. Anyway, this thread is annoying me and I have a lot of work to do. I'm going to try not to open it again. We don’t currently know what is the ultimate actual recovery rate. It is certainly not correct that 98% are recovered thus far. Worldometer.info: 165,712 Cases which had an outcome: 137,336 (83%) Recovered / Discharged 28,376 (17%) DEAD It is also not a proven correct fact that 98% are “mild” thus far. Today, 95% are listed as “mild” / 5% serious and critical — which is already different than a 98%/2% split— but “mild” doesn’t mean what most people think when they hear “mild” — it means a whole range through what people think of as mild through to just short of “severe” or “critical” so includes, for example pneumonia mild enough to handle at home. .... Sometimes words like “mild” mean something technical, but that is misleading for most people hearing / seeing the word. Edited March 30, 2020 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 17 hours ago, SKL said: So like I said, being positive doesn't equal being in denial. They are completely separate things. I completely agree! I do get tired of the doomsday predictions given on the news and some of these threads like they are the actual truth. Two things...they don’t help anyone make rational decisions and they aren’t the path we are taking as a country. Are we doing enough? Debatable, we will all have to agree to disagree there because we do not know what the future will hold. Around here in SE Michigan we have a growing number of cases particularly in Detroit. One hospital system for planning purposes came up with DNR planning document. It was not intended for release, it isn’t in use yet, but the Detroit News (can’t speak for the Free Press) along with the TV stations have run that story like they have already put those guidelines in place. It isn’t current, it isn’t in use, but they treat it as both to drum up the anxiety. That I can’t stand. The “facts” are changing daily and really all I can do is take it one day at a time. Keep me abreast of what is changing, but because I choose to be hopeful doesn’t mean I am running around having coffee with my friends. I am in my house with my husband doing school/work/keeping my children who rely on me calm as best as I can while choosing not to drive myself into a depression by obsessing over every worst case scenario discussed on TV. The politicians/government officials I like could do better, the ones I hate could be doing worse, but we are all human and I choose give grace to both sides in this ever changing, terrible situation we find ourselves in. Really, if God wants to wipe us all out He has the power to do so regardless of how much data analysis we do or social distancing we practice. We can hope other people make the choices we want them to, but getting angry about it won’t hurt them-only us. This pandemic has reminded me that we are not in control and that is scary, but I continue to pray for the sick and examine my life and live it as closely to God’s will as I can while remembering His words (paraphrased) that Every day has enough worry for itself and that we don’t need to worry about tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Pen said: Anyone saying 98% of cases recover or are mild is almost certainly telling people false information. We don’t currently know what is the ultimate actual recovery rate. It is certainly not correct that 98% are recovered thus far. Worldometer.info: 165,712 Cases which had an outcome: 137,336 (83%) Recovered / Discharged 28,376 (17%) DEAD It is also not a proven correct fact that 98% are “mild” thus far. Today, 95% are listed as “mild” / 5% serious and critical — which is already different than a 98%/2% split— but “mild” doesn’t mean what most people think when they hear “mild” — it means a whole range through what people think of as mild through to just short of “severe” or “critical” so includes, for example pneumonia mild enough to handle at home. .... Sometimes words like “mild” mean something technical, but that is misleading for most people hearing / seeing the word. Why are you harping on the 98%? I didn't cite that as a statistic. Also, whoever did cite it wasn't saying "mild," they were saying "recovered" as in did not die of COVID19. True, we don't know the exact stats, but that hasn't stopped you and others from talking as if the latest estimate you heard was a fact. Censoring only one voice doesn't make sense. People can and should filter what they hear from everyone and realize that none of it is for sure yet. Your info above about cases which have had an outcome obviously do not include all the people who are currently infected but will recover (or die). We do know the vast majority will recover. So I'm not sure why you are even posting that info. Rest assured I have seen that info on Worldometer numerous times each day. You don't have to make sure I'm up to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 11 hours ago, Sneezyone said: Washington, NY, CA and perhaps others states (I don't know) have required insurers to waive out-of-pocket costs for COVID testing. Insurers have also agreed to waive in/out-of-network fees for treatment. https://www.ahip.org/health-insurance-providers-respond-to-coronavirus-covid-19/ Oregon is taking it up, among many other provisions, in emergency legislative sessions this week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 9 hours ago, OH_Homeschooler said: The thing that annoys me the most about people complaining about not seeing the recovery rate is the assumption that "people are hiding something." No, they simply can't say what the survival rate is yet. Stop assuming everything is a conspiracy. Exactly. And because the feds still can’t supply an adequate number of tests. And yet today on a conference call with governor’s our fearless leader claimed there were no issues with testing. I honestly struggle to understand being positive when faced with such ego and incompetence at the very highest level. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innisfree Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Mom2mthj said: We can hope other people make the choices we want them to, but getting angry about it won’t hurt them-only us. I don't think anyone wants to "hurt" people who are making poor choices. We would like to explain to them why other choices are better. 7 hours ago, Mom2mthj said: This pandemic has reminded me that we are not in control and that is scary, The thing is, we, collectively, *are* in control. That is the.whole.deal. We are in control of the course the pandemic takes. We can't absolutely stop it right this moment, because lots of people are already infected, but every single one of us is in control of our own actions, and if we work together, we can shut this pandemic down. But if other people don't understand or cooperate, that won't work. The virus will keep spreading. And that is why I get frustrated with people who don't listen, or who don't do their part. Personally, I think a bit of anger is understandable, maybe even appropriate. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 4 hours ago, SKL said: Why are you harping on the 98%? I didn't cite that as a statistic. Also, whoever did cite it wasn't saying "mild," they were saying "recovered" as in did not die of COVID19. It is false. Why do you keep repeating it? if you stop repeating the false statement I will stop posting rebuttal statements Below is the current results from confirmed cases, which is the best actual statistics we have. 98% of people have not recovered. Earlier today 17% of cases with outcomes ended in deaths now it is 19%. 203,422 Cases which had an outcome: 165,607 (81%) Recovered / Discharged 37,815 (19%) Deaths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 OTOH for some I hope good news, FDA approved hydroxychloroquine/ azithromycin for Use in some CV19 patients. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pen said: It is false. Why do you keep repeating it? if you stop repeating the false statement I will stop posting rebuttal statements Below is the current results from confirmed cases, which is the best actual statistics we have. 98% of people have not recovered. Earlier today 17% of cases with outcomes ended in deaths now it is 19%. 203,422 Cases which had an outcome: 165,607 (81%) Recovered / Discharged 37,815 (19%) Deaths I never cited 98%. I only repeated what the OP mentioned for discussion purposes. Why do I feel like I'm in the twilight zone right now? As for the stats you post above, that is misleading because cases that end in death "resolve" sooner than cases that don't end in death. So if the disease takes x weeks to run its course, the "resolved" cases will include all the deaths in x weeks but none of the new cases that people survived. With cases increasing, using figures like the above will overstate the actual death rate. Also, the above does not include any cases that were not diagnosed because of being too mild to justify testing. I think you know this, so I'm not sure what your point is other than you want me to shut up. Edited March 31, 2020 by SKL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pen said: 203,422 Cases which had an outcome: 165,607 (81%) Recovered / Discharged 37,815 (19%) Deaths Also the same source you cite provides the following (and includes only cases that have been diagnosed, therefore excluding all the cases considered too mild to justify testing): Active Cases 582,328 Currently Infected Patients 552,840 (95%) in Mild Condition 29,488 (5%) Serious or Critica Edited March 31, 2020 by SKL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) Hope this doesn’t offend anyone but I saw it on Facebook and it did make me think of this Edited March 31, 2020 by Ausmumof3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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