wuhan - coronavirus

[Ausmumof3]

BNO:  Brazil's Health Ministry says a man has tested positive for coronavirus in an initial test, but they're waiting for results from a 2nd test. If confirmed. it would be South America's first case

[Ausmumof3]

All from BNO:

1,146 cases for South Korea now.

a cruise ship has being denied access to Jamaica because one of the crew have a cough fever and muscle pain.

at least 50 people in Japan are seriously ill many of them from the Diamond Princess.

[Ausmumof3]

406 new cases and 52 deaths for China mostly in Hubei.  Still showing decline in the numbers 

[Pen]

So, my DS says they talked about it in school and his teachers say it’s nothing. Less bad than flu. Just media hype.  

I’m not sure if that’s a bad thing as having over anxious students would not be a particular help. 

But...otoh...  

 

[Ausmumof3]

From Global Times:

A 56-year-old woman in SW China's Sichuan Province was confirmed with novel coronavirus infection Monday. She tested negative eight times in nucleic acid diagnosis. #COVID19

[mathnerd]

56 minutes ago, Pen said:

I’m not sure if that’s a bad thing as having over anxious students would not be a particular help. 

Most schools and employers (and local governments) are downplaying the epidemic because of this reason. It is hard to manage panicked people and kids.

[Arcadia]

15 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Most schools and employers (and local governments) are downplaying the epidemic because of this reason. It is hard to manage panicked people and kids.

Many employers has suspend business travel, so not really downplaying. Schools can’t do anything and if they say whatever they think they might get angry parents. 

from CNN Updated 8:05 PM ET, Tue February 4, 2020 https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/04/us/coronavirus-school-district-petition-trnd/index.html

“(CNN)There haven't been any coronavirus cases Alhambra, California -- yet more than 14,000 people are urging the local school district to close until the outbreak ends.

The urging comes in the form of a Change.org petition, posted a week ago. The petition, created by "Concerned Aztec," pleads with Alhambra Unified School District, asking it to close its schools.

"The virus has already made a name for itself by killing many individuals in China as well as spreading to other countries at a fast pace," it reads.

The petition goes on to say that attending school would "maximize the spread of the virus," and advocates for wearing face masks as protection if students are forced to attend. This is despite the fact that physicians and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention don't recommend the masks for the American public.

"Petitions like this one to close the Alhambra Unified Schools show us what happens when we make decisions based on false rumors and misleading and hysterical social media," said Toby Gilbert, a spokeswoman for the Alhambra Unified School District, located east of Los Angeles.

Despite the petition, Gilbert said there are no plans to close schools, though officials are remaining vigilant and working closely with the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health.

"AUSD bases all our decisions on fact-based and science-based information from the LA County Department of Public Health and the Los Angeles Office of Education," Gilbert added.”

From Reuter’s https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-verizon/big-tech-cos-pull-out-of-san-francisco-conferences-on-coronavirus-concerns-idUSKBN20F2NW

“(Reuters) - Verizon Communications Inc (VZ.N) has pulled out of the RSA cyber security conference due to coronavirus-related concerns, the organizer said hereon Friday. 

RSA also said that AT&T Cybersecurity will not participate in the conference, taking the total number of companies that have pulled out to fourteen. These include six from China, seven from the United States and one from Canada. 

Separately, Facebook Inc (FB.O) said that it will not be attending the Game Developers Conference, also in San Francisco, due to the coronavirus outbreak. 

Last week, International Business Machines Corp (IBM.N) also withdrew from the conference on similar concerns.”

 

[Pen]

Tag at people with situations that increase risks of being in non mild illness group: 

Another link to VitaminDWiki relevant to D and coronaviruses.  (I lost my slide show link if anyone knows where it went btw)

 I don’t know that D will help, and it probably won’t prevent entirely, but especially for those of us with higher risk factors maybe it could help us to have a mild version not a severe version.  

And it’s available pretty inexpensively.

Anyway, I’m taking mine.  [Dr John whose videos I like, and who doesn’t mostly even believe in supplements as a good thing says he is taking his (though less than I am). ]

 

If taking lots of added D3 also look at info on balancing with A and  K2 and maybe E.    I don’t know if D from sunshine also needs balancing . 

 

https://vitamindwiki.com/Coronaviruses+attach+to+cells+via+ACE2%2C+which+is+reduced+by+Vitamin+D

[Shoeless]

I am wondering if we will see the virus hit the US in a big way after spring break, due to vacation travel. 

[mommyoffive]

13 hours ago, Farrar said:

I'm pretty sure we've lost all the money on our Europe trip. Ugh. I'm just. UGH. Luckily, nearly all of it is the plane tickets, which were extremely cheap, but still, it's a lot of $ for us. I mean, anything could happen, but it's not looking good overall, I think.

Italy had more than 60 new cases in 24 hours. In Iran, the deputy health minister discovered he had it right after a news conference about controlling it. Someone told me about a flight a relative was on from Europe yesterday that was more than half empty. People are starting to hunker down, I think.

 

You were going to Italy correct?  They are at 322 cases right now.  South Korea is 1,146 and some airlines are now canceling flights to South Korea.  This may end up happening to Italy too.  It did to China and Hong Kong.  They then give refunds or waivers. 

https://thriftytraveler.com/some-airlines-halt-flights-to-south-korea-amid-coronavirus-fears/

 

Thus far, no major U.S. airlines have canceled flights to Seoul-Incheon (ICN) as they have with flights to China and Hong Kong. But Delta, United, and American have all issued travel waivers for flights to South Korea.

Passengers with Delta and United with flights booked through April can push their flights out into late May or cancel for a full refund. American’s waiver extends through April 24.

[Arcadia]

27 minutes ago, ByeByeMartha said:

Is it possible that most of those 14,000 people are students? LOL

It’s not the only case. Alhambra, California has a large Asian population.

From Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-08/coronavirus-gives-schools-a-lesson-in-another-contagion-fear

“Fear Drives Petitions

But the anxiety is especially intense at schools. A request on Change.org to close Arizona State University in Tempe has garnered more than 25,000 online signatures, while another demanding the school boards in the province of Ontario, Canada, close their campuses has gathered almost 51,000.

“Many students with flu-like symptoms refuse to stay at home for fear of missing lectures, but they are running the risk of bringing the virus to campus,” the Ontario petition reads, stating that respiratory masks are sold out in stores in the greater Toronto area.

In Alhambra, California, a Los Angeles suburb where roughly half the population is Asian, the school board put out a statement in four languages on Feb. 5. It was meant to counter what the board said were rumors circulating on social media and in the community, including an online petition signed by over 14,000 people that claimed there was “suspicion of a case of this virus in Alhambra.””

From Pasadena Star News https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/2020/02/03/nearly-14000-want-alahmbra-schools-to-cancel-class-until-coronavirus-outbreak-ends/amp/

“Officials say the movement is just part of a hysteria sweeping across the San Gabriel Valley, especially among the large Asian community, one full of conjecture and rumors.

..,

Without a declaration of an emergency, Superintendent Denise Jaramillo does not have the authority to close the schools because students must attend 180 days of instruction each academic year, Gilbert added. Neither the state,  the Los Angeles County of Education or the county of Department of Health have declared an emergency.”

Edited February 26, 2020 by Arcadia

[mathnerd]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

It’s not the only case. Alhambra, California has a large Asian population.

From Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-08/coronavirus-gives-schools-a-lesson-in-another-contagion-fear

“Fear Drives Petitions

But the anxiety is especially intense at schools. A request on Change.org to close Arizona State University in Tempe has garnered more than 25,000 online signatures, while another demanding the school boards in the province of Ontario, Canada, close their campuses has gathered almost 51,000.

“Many students with flu-like symptoms refuse to stay at home for fear of missing lectures, but they are running the risk of bringing the virus to campus,” the Ontario petition reads, stating that respiratory masks are sold out in stores in the greater Toronto area.

In Alhambra, California, a Los Angeles suburb where roughly half the population is Asian, the school board put out a statement in four languages on Feb. 5. It was meant to counter what the board said were rumors circulating on social media and in the community, including an online petition signed by over 14,000 people that claimed there was “suspicion of a case of this virus in Alhambra.””

From Pasadena Star News https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/2020/02/03/nearly-14000-want-alahmbra-schools-to-cancel-class-until-coronavirus-outbreak-ends/amp/

“Officials say the movement is just part of a hysteria sweeping across the San Gabriel Valley, especially among the large Asian community, one full of conjecture and rumors.

..,

Without a declaration of an emergency, Superintendent Denise Jaramillo does not have the authority to close the schools because students must attend 180 days of instruction each academic year, Gilbert added. Neither the state,  the Los Angeles County of Education or the county of Department of Health have declared an emergency.”

@Arcadia, Bay Area schools are preparing for the eventuality of school closures and "education using online tools" (which is mostly Skype based instruction and Khan academy according to my friend in the local district) if the epidemic explodes locally and if kids are asked to stay home. They are also proposing to cancel events that involve close gatherings of students (sports, assemblies) if the epidemic starts spreading within our county.

[Pen]

4 hours ago, Pen said:

 

9 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

40-70% worldwide is huge.  I'm not sure hiding from it (trying to prevent exposure) is going to be an effective strategy.  If it is that contagious, it seems exposure is ultimately inevitable.

9 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

. 

 

If people get sick more gradually the medical system has a better chance of coping. 

So not hiding to prevent, but to slow it down. 

 

I decided to elaborate because this is important IMO.

Following the math of this thing, and NB I’m pretty tired right now so could be making huge arithmetic mistakes...

if you have, say an area with ~ 500,000 population and ~ 2000 hospital beds, and where, say, 100 of the hospital beds are relevant adult ICU, if 50% of the 500,000 come down with the virus within weeks of each other and ~ 20% need the hospital that’s 50,000 needing hospital many overlapping in need —It’s  going to way overwhelm the 2000 beds available at the hospitals (and ICUs also) . (Even if only 40% get sick and only 10% of them need hospital, it’s still overwhelming if condensed in time. ) 

On the other hand, If it can be draaaaawn out, with same number of people ultimately getting sick, but over 2-4 years then it becomes far more manageable.   Still a lot though.  But more manageable, more absorbable. More likely for medical systems to be able to give care that would save more people— possibly including front line health care workers who may get it.  

Also if people develop antibodies, after recovery they possibly may be able to then help more with things like delivering food to homebound sick... 

 

(and too if drawn out, it could be that a helpful effective non dangerous vaccine arrives ) 

[I talk to the trees]

10 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I am wondering if we will see the virus hit the US in a big way after spring break, due to vacation travel. 

This is my big concern too. Dd is coming home for spring break, but I know that one of her professors and several students in her research lab are flying to Washington (state) for a research project for break. And who knows where her dorm mates are going for break? Airplanes and dormitories = big ol' Petri dishes! Ick! Ick! Ick! (Could someone turn down the volume on my anxiety, please? I am finding it difficult to hear myself think!)  

[Arcadia]

2 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

@Arcadia, Bay Area schools are preparing for the eventuality of school closures and "education using online tools" (which is mostly Skype based instruction and Khan academy according to my friend in the local district) 

 

CAVA (California Virtual Academy) use Blackboard Collaborate Ultra and it’s not bad for online instruction. Much more stable than Skype. 

It won’t be hard for Foothill college to conduct the classes DS15 is now taking to online as they have done that before. So not too worried. Final Exams in March (winter quarter) however would be interesting if there is a local epidemic. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, I talk to the trees said:

This is my big concern too. Dd is coming home for spring break, but I know that one of her professors and several students in her research lab are flying to Washington (state) for a research project for break. And who knows where her dorm mates are going for break? Airplanes and dormitories = big ol' Petri dishes! Ick! Ick! Ick! (Could someone turn down the volume on my anxiety, please? I am finding it difficult to hear myself think!)  

I’m going to share this in case it’s helpful.  When we went through the bushfire situation most recently every time I felt my anxiety start peaking I made myself take 1 preventative action.  Sweep the back step to keep it clear.  Etc.  Just one small simple thing.  Waiting is really hard for anxiety but doing simple preparedness actions can really help.

one proviso here ... I’m not sure if this is a good way to deal with it if you suffer from OCD or something.  But for normal run of the mill anxiety it seems to help.

[Ausmumof3]

I don’t know if this was shared yet but a US serviceman tested positive in South Korea according to CNN

[Arcadia]

From CNA https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/china-quarantine-seoul-flight-covid-19-12471090

“(Updated: 26 Feb 2020 11:05AM)

SEOUL: China quarantined 94 air passengers arriving from Seoul after three people on the flight were discovered to have fever, state media reported on Wednesday (Feb 26). 

The three passengers, all Chinese, arrived in the city of Nanjing on Tuesday morning and were discovered after customs personnel boarded the aircraft on landing to screen passengers for symptoms, Chinese state broadcaster CCTV said.

The three were immediately sent by ambulance to a hospital for isolation and testing, while 94 people who had sat near them on the plane were sent to a hotel to be quarantined, CCTV said.

None of the three people with fevers had any history of travel to Wuhan, the city where the outbreak originated.”

[beaners]

3 minutes ago, I talk to the trees said:

This is my big concern too. Dd is coming home for spring break, but I know that one of her professors and several students in her research lab are flying to Washington (state) for a research project for break. And who knows where her dorm mates are going for break? Airplanes and dormitories = big ol' Petri dishes! Ick! Ick! Ick! (Could someone turn down the volume on my anxiety, please? I am finding it difficult to hear myself think!)  

Plus it sounds like college students and school age kids are going to be minimally sick compared to other groups. So they have the potential to be out and about and spreading it without knowing. In a flu epidemic that spread would be limited more because they would also be sick and staying home. Schools here decide to close to prevent the spread of the flu all the time, but they base that on students being out sick.

[Ausmumof3]

Stephen McDonell who is a China Correspondent for BBC tweeted that at least 18 medical staff have died in China.  It’s unclear whether all died from the virus or from other incidents related to the outbreak.

https://www.cn-healthcare.com/article/20200224/wap-content-531404.html

Chinese source with pictures of those who died 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Arcadia]

6 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I don’t know if this was shared yet but a US serviceman tested positive in South Korea according to CNN

 

From Military Times https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/02/26/first-us-service-member-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-in-south-korea/

“The soldier, who is 23 years old and is stationed at Camp Carroll near Daegu, visited Camp Carroll between Feb. 21-25, and neighboring Camp Walker on Feb. 24. He is currently being quarantined at his home off base, according to the command.

“KCDC and USFK health professionals are actively conducting contact tracing to determine whether any others may have been exposed,” USFK said in a news release Feb. 25.

...

On Monday, USFK announced that a 61-year-old widow of a retired soldier had contracted the virus, a step that pushed USFK to update the risk level for the command from moderate to high. At the time, the widow was the only one affiliated with USFK to contract the virus, known as COVID-19.

The command said Monday the widow visited Camp Walker’s Post Exchange on Feb. 12 and Feb. 15 and that authorities were conducting contract tracing to see if anyone else had been exposed.

...

Over the weekend, South Korea President Moon Jae-in updated the anti-virus alert level to “Red," providing South Korean authorities the ability to close schools and cut back on public transportation services, among other measures. A “Red” alert level has not been issued in 10 years, per the Associated Press.

In response to the outbreak, U.S. Army Garrison Daegu announced Sunday that USFK and the Department of Defense Education Activity had decided schools will remain out of session through Feb. 28.”

[Pen]

9 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Right, I'm not saying you shouldn't stock up....it's the balance of what people are stocking and the thought processes behind it that I'm pondering.  I think everyone has to do what they are comfortable with.

But....if most of us are going to get it in the next two years (as the current modeling shows, with this becoming endemic), and most of us are either going to be asymptomatic or have mild symptoms for three weeks.....then why the six months of rice and beans? I think it unlikely in the US that they will shut down society for months at a time....it may be that they encourage people to remain at home during peak times to try to minimize impacts to local healthcare. I *do* think we will probably see some supply disruptions---but again, those are likely to be of something other than rice and beans.

 

Well again, as in my reply to @8filltheheart, sloooooowwwwiiinngg spread down helps keep medical care system from being swamped by the more serious cases. 

9 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

What *would* I buy?

 

I mostly agree with the just buy a little extra idea

9 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 

But six months of rice and beans and a water filter and calling it good? Eh, maybe a bit shortsighted.  Same with going on the flip side and running up a credit card bill and buying all the things.

Again, YMMV, just my .02 pondering....

 

I agree with others who have explained that for a lot of people a big bag of rice and a big bag of beans is financially and storage space feasible.

and clean water of course — yes.  Probably people on municipal water systems will still have running water as good as whatever is the usual, but filter could be helpful. 

 

I also agree with whoever mentioned having some salt and oil too. 

 

[Arcadia]

From CNA https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/hong-kong-budget-deficit-announcement-protests-coronavirus-12471258

“HONG KONG: Hong Kong's government on Wednesday (Feb 26) said it will give a HK$10,000 (US$1,280) handout to seven million permanent residents in a bid to jump-start a recession-hit economy now compounded by the coronavirus outbreak.

Financial Secretary Paul Chan unveiled the cash gift in an annual budget, committing HK$120 billion to help alleviate the worst economic downtown the international financial hub has faced in a decade.

Hong Kong boasts significant fiscal reserves of more than HK$1 trillion built up over the boom years, a stockpile that the government is now tapping into.

The cash handout alone will cost HK$71 billion but officials hope consumers will plough much of the money back into local businesses.

"Making good use of fiscal reserves to support enterprises and relieve people's hardship is certainly in line with our people's expectations," he said.

Hong Kong's economy is reeling from the US-China trade war, months of protests last year and now the coronavirus: a triple whammy Chan described as "exceptionally austere".

Other measures announced in the budget included profits and salary tax breaks as well as low-interest loans for businesses struggling to pay staff wages.”

[Ausmumof3]

5 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

From CNA https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/hong-kong-budget-deficit-announcement-protests-coronavirus-12471258

“HONG KONG: Hong Kong's government on Wednesday (Feb 26) said it will give a HK$10,000 (US$1,280) handout to seven million permanent residents in a bid to jump-start a recession-hit economy now compounded by the coronavirus outbreak.

Financial Secretary Paul Chan unveiled the cash gift in an annual budget, committing HK$120 billion to help alleviate the worst economic downtown the international financial hub has faced in a decade.

Hong Kong boasts significant fiscal reserves of more than HK$1 trillion built up over the boom years, a stockpile that the government is now tapping into.

The cash handout alone will cost HK$71 billion but officials hope consumers will plough much of the money back into local businesses.

"Making good use of fiscal reserves to support enterprises and relieve people's hardship is certainly in line with our people's expectations," he said.

Hong Kong's economy is reeling from the US-China trade war, months of protests last year and now the coronavirus: a triple whammy Chan described as "exceptionally austere".

Other measures announced in the budget included profits and salary tax breaks as well as low-interest loans for businesses struggling to pay staff wages.”

Is this likely to be partly political as well?  I don’t understand the political situation in Hong Kong properly but I keep reading that the govs approval rating is at an all time low.

[Ausmumof3]

In terms of preparedness what about if you have to leave your place to go into quarantine?  I’m not sure if that’s even a likely scenario at this stage but it did happen in Wuhan.  And it appeared the quarantine centres were pretty under equipped at the start.  Is it worth having a stash of portable food?

[Shoeless]

40 minutes ago, I talk to the trees said:

This is my big concern too. Dd is coming home for spring break, but I know that one of her professors and several students in her research lab are flying to Washington (state) for a research project for break. And who knows where her dorm mates are going for break? Airplanes and dormitories = big ol' Petri dishes! Ick! Ick! Ick! (Could someone turn down the volume on my anxiety, please? I am finding it difficult to hear myself think!)  

 

I am right there with you, regarding the worry. 

My husband's employer wants to send him on a business trip to Chicago next month. Even without the specter of this virus looming, I'd still frown about that because air travel during flu and cold season = husband with a cold/the flu.  Oh, and looking at the calendar, he'll be traveling during spring break. Fantastic. 

 

[Pen]

42 minutes ago, I talk to the trees said:

This is my big concern too. Dd is coming home for spring break, but I know that one of her professors and several students in her research lab are flying to Washington (state) for a research project for break. And who knows where her dorm mates are going for break? Airplanes and dormitories = big ol' Petri dishes! Ick! Ick! Ick! (Could someone turn down the volume on my anxiety, please? I am finding it difficult to hear myself think!)  

 

Is there some useful action you can take? If so sometimes action helps anxiety.   If not maybe physical exercise? Meditation? 

Logic?   The virus is  likely to be mild for most of the young people with this if it doesn’t change its patterns, so long as they don’t have the risk factors .  (Though Professors, staff, parents... who are older will be more vulnerable.) 

[Garga]

11 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

 

I actually think laundry detergent, dishwasher detergent, soap, toilet paper are things I would want to make sure I had enough of for a few weeks on top of basic food supplies in case you feel too sick to go out shopping. 

I got extra of all those things.

11 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Don't forget tampons and sanitary pads. I so do not want to have to improvise for THAT!

Yup—I got extra of those, too!

10 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 

What *would* I buy? Cold and flu medicines, OTC meds that you normally use that are likely to be disrupted (Benadryl, Zantac, etc.), electronic items that keep life going for you---a spare phone charging cord, an extra toner cartridge for the printer, household items that keep life comfortable for you like laundry soap, dishwasher tabs, etc.   Like, think about what you normally use in life and just buy a little extra.

Yup—all those as well, except for the extra toner.

I also got extra cat food and litter.  

I keep a master list of everything I buy at the store and each week I cross off the items I don’t need and only get what’s left.  Last week, I went in and bought 2 week’s worth of EVERYTHING off my master list.  

It was expensive.  It would be best to do that over a few shopping trips, but I worried that I wouldn’t have the luxury of time.  

7 hours ago, ByeByeMartha said:

You're right, but if I have to touch that germy faucet again--what's the point?

You’re supposed to grab a couple of paper towels. Use one to turn on the faucet to wet your hands and then turn off before you lather.  Then use another to turn it back on and off after you’ve lathered.  Sing Happy Birthday during the lather time.  There will be more time when you’re rinsing that’s above the 20-second Happy Birthday singing.  Washing hands properly takes a good 30-40 seconds.  I cringe because I have a friend who sometimes just wets the tips of her fingers and then dries her hands on a towel—no soap, no scrubbing.  Eep!

Edited February 26, 2020 by Garga

[Pen]

7 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

In terms of preparedness what about if you have to leave your place to go into quarantine?  I’m not sure if that’s even a likely scenario at this stage but it did happen in Wuhan.  And it appeared the quarantine centres were pretty under equipped at the start.  Is it worth having a stash of portable food?

 

Wow!  Whole other level consideration.

well for those of us in bushfire / wildfire areas some portable stuff might be useful.  But I figure if needing to evacuate portable only needs to be for a limited time.  

I don’t know. The Covid-19 scenario would be forced evacuation, but to something like a repurposed convention center, and still feeling well or minimally sick?

I think one’s personal medicines if any, things like that.  Maybe a water bottle and some granola bars or similar ?  I dunno.  I’d think carrying stuff would be hard.  I’d want my cellphone and charger and cord.  Glasses.  Eye drops I use. Change of clothing if allowed.  Stuff like that. My vitamins and supplements.

  I would not have thought to bring a lot of food.  But ???? 

[Arcadia]

25 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Is this likely to be partly political as well?  I don’t understand the political situation in Hong Kong properly but I keep reading that the govs approval rating is at an all time low.

Hong Kong is historically messy. People there are used to thinking of themselves as British (more privileged than Chinese from other countries).

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/britain-agrees-to-return-hong-kong-to-china 

“Hong Kong–a small peninsula and group of islands jutting out from China’s Kwangtung province–was leased by China to Great Britain in 1898 for 99 years.

In 1839, in the First Opium War, Britain invaded China to crush opposition to its interference in the country’s economic, social, and political affairs. One of Britain’s first acts of war was to occupy Hong Kong, a sparsely inhabited island off the coast of southeast China. In 1841, China ceded the island to the British with the signing of the Convention of Chuenpi, and in 1842 the Treaty of Nanking was signed, formally ending the First Opium War. At the end of the Second Opium War (1856-1860), China was forced to cede the Kowloon Peninsula, adjacent to Hong Kong Island, along with other area islands.”

[Pen]

6 hours ago, pitterpatter said:

What kind of spray should we disinfect our clothes, shoes, etc. with before coming back into our houses? I plan to directly wash them after returning home, of course, but what about spraying our clothes in the garage or outside before entering our house (or someone else's house) if we don't have the option of disrobing outside first? At least, what about for our shoes, some really can't be washed.

 

Has anyone taken a stab at this yet?

I don’t know answer.  But it seems like a great question. 

Can you leave shoes outside where UV light from sun can help sterilize?  Set up a clothesline in sun? 

Just leaving them outside or in garage or on landing outside apartment, etc, virus will tend to die with time.   Or maybe much better would be plastic bagging so virus is contained while time is helping for the viruses to die. 

 Bagging in plastic and heating from outside bag with blow dryer so heat could speed up die off?  (Should we feel sorry for the viruses who are just trying to “live” (debatable) out their lives and we are plotting about trying to kill the viruses?) 

 

I don’t know what spray is being used in Photos of epidemic hot areas.  But it may take more spray than would be feasible long term. And could have unintended bad consequences perhaps like increasing bacteria that are antibiotic resistant or what have you. 

 I think for ordinary non medical etc workers other options might be better. 

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Current suggestion here is enough food for basic meals (carbs and some protein, basically) for 2 weeks, and to start buying a little bit extra now if possible, no panic buying needed.

That's in case there are temporary, limited problems with supply, and also in case  we are asked at some point in the medium- term future to stay home for a few weeks. I could see planning for up to a month, but I think there's a fine line between going crazy with prep for something that we don't know will be a problem yet, and doing nothing for the possible scenario of an outbreak local to us. 

@Pen, do you know if Vit D supplementation is worth if it you have OK levels normally? ie does the benefit of Vit D supplementation mostly accrue to those deficient? What amount do you take? 

May be less relevant coming off summer here than in US?

[Ausmumof3]

3 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Current suggestion here is enough food for basic meals (carbs and some protein, basically) for 2 weeks, and to start buying a little bit extra now if possible, no panic buying needed.

That's in case there are temporary, limited problems with supply, and also in case  we are asked at some point in the medium- term future to stay home for a few weeks. I could see planning for up to a month, but I think there's a fine line between going crazy with prep for something that we don't know will be a problem yet, and doing nothing for the possible scenario of an outbreak local to us. 

@Pen, do you know if Vit D supplementation is worth if it you have OK levels normally? ie does the benefit of Vit D supplementation mostly accrue to those deficient? What amount do you take? 

I think the reality is in Australia or US that there wouldn’t be the tolerance for a longer lockdown scenario.  

[Pen]

 

Quote

@Pen, do you know if Vit D supplementation is worth if it you have OK levels normally? ie does the benefit of Vit D supplementation mostly accrue to those deficient? What amount do you take? 

 

So far as I know if Vitamin D levels are naturally high (and being still in summertime yours may be) then no, afaik, supplementing not needed.  (Though some liver might give the A and K parts nicely. ) 

I want my level to be around 100nmol/L or higher  but not higher than 300nmol/L.  I know I had very low levels in past and have never tested up at current optimum levels. And I live in the cloudy, rainy Pacific North West of the USA, so poor sunshine most of year in a forestry area little valley in mountains so even in summer there’s not many hours when sun is not shaded. [ (And I have had a melanoma so possibly there are some issues with sunbathing for me (or not—my main melanoma was not in a particularly sun exposed area, though some other pre melanomas and other skin cancers were)]

In general, 1000iu raises level by 10nmol, so I am taking 10,000-15000iu per day for past few days. (I used to take 4000iu per day). 

I was afraid to go that high in past because of D toxicity issues, hypercalcemia etc, but I feel I researched it and that with K2 and A and E balance that I’m okay on that.  And... I feel remarkable better (or less terrible fatigue, pain, etc) in terms of my chronic illness in these last days with this much higher dose. 

 

Btw— note that I am using nmol/L and IU units.  Not ng/ml .  Not micrograms of D3.    The units matter.  

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Pen

[Shoeless]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

Has anyone taken a stab at this yet?

I don’t know answer.  But it seems like a great question. 

Can you leave shoes outside where UV light from sun can help sterilize?  Set up a clothesline in sun? 

Just leaving them outside or in garage or on landing outside apartment, etc, virus will tend to die with time.   Or maybe much better would be plastic bagging so virus is contained while time is helping for the viruses to die. 

 Bagging in plastic and heating from outside bag with blow dryer so heat could speed up die off?  (Should we feel sorry for the viruses who are just trying to “live” (debatable) out their lives and we are plotting about trying to kill the viruses?) 

 

I don’t know what spray is being used in Photos of epidemic hot areas.  But it may take more spray than would be feasible long term. And could have unintended bad consequences perhaps like increasing bacteria that are antibiotic resistant or what have you. 

 I think for ordinary non medical etc workers other options might be better. 

 

For shoes, consider setting up a diluted bleach shoe bath. When we had patients in isolation at the veterinary hospital, we had to step into a shallow pan of dilute bleach with a towel on the bottom of it.  The towel was mostly to keep someone from slipping and falling, but we'd step in, wipe our feet on the towel in the bleach bath for a few seconds, and then step out onto a dry towel. 

We used to gown up to enter iso, (gown, gloves, mask, shoe covers), for iso, and then leave all the potentially contaminated garb in the isolation ward before we left. We did have a spray to use on our scrubs, but I have no idea if it would be effective against COVID-19. 

If I had to set up some kind of decontamination area for my house, I'd set up a shoe bath outside and then keep the shoes in a rubbermaid tote outside.  We have rattlesnakes and scorpions here, so I can't leave shoes outside unprotected, because something will absolutely slither in. My garage is detached, so I could theoretically have everyone change clothes in there, and bag up the contaminated clothes to immediately go into the wash.  

 

[Pen]

Just now, StellaM said:

 

Possibly, although I spent the summer inside due to smoke and air quality...I often feel I get more adequate Vit D in autumn and winter when I can get some sun exposure outdoors.

 

There are some calculators online where you can put in latitude and get figures on how long you need to be in sun, at what time of day, with how much of body exposed, to get good Vitamin D.    Even in Australia it may be that you can’t get enough in winter especially if working etc in Prime sun hours. 

[Shoeless]

Oh, important to note: bleach is inactivated by sunlight.  A shoe bath would need to be out of direct light. 

[Pen]

@Stella adding to my answer above.  If deficient, the supplements or sun or something is very important not just because of this particular virus threat.  D is involved in huge numbers of body processes.

If “okay” but not optimum, getting to more optimum not bare level of okay is likely to help according to what I have read.  

If already optimum, don’t take extra.  While most people have lower than optimum levels (because clothing, indoor modern lives etc) one doesn’t want to be way too high.  

Did you get to see the slide show I linked upthread? (The one I now can’t find?) 

[Ausmumof3]

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/26/china-child-found-home-alone-with-dead-grandfather-amid-coronavirus-lockdown?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
 

so sad 😞. 
 

[Shoeless]

I've been trying to find some sort of spray that works on enveloped viruses like COVID-19, but the only thing that comes up that is readily available to the general public is bleach. Of course, people aren't going to want to spray their clothes with bleach. So either you wear raggedly clothes out to the store that you don't care if they get bleached, (lol), or you could wear blue farmer coveralls and leave them outside to hang in the sunlight. Or...? I don't know.  You can make yourself crazy thinking about all this. 

[Arcadia]

From Caixin Global https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-02-26/14-of-recovered-covid-19-patients-in-guangdong-tested-positive-again-101520415.html

“About 14% of patients who recovered from the novel coronavirus and were discharged from hospitals in southern China’s Guangdong province were tested positive again in later check-ups, according to the local health authority. A positive test suggests the recovered patients may still carry the virus, adding complexity to efforts to control the outbreak.

There is no clear conclusion on why it happens and whether such patients could still be infectious, said Song Tie, deputy director of the Guangdong Center of Disease Control And Prevention (Guangdong CDC), at a Tuesday briefing.

According to the preliminary assessment, experts believed the patients are still recovering from lung infections and have yet to be fully healthy, according to Song. 

According to the latest treatment guidelines for the Covid-19 issued by the National Health Commission, patients can be considered recovered and released from hospital when their throat or nose swabs show up negative in two consecutive tests, with a CT scan indicating no lung lesions, and when they have no obvious symptoms such as fever. 

The guidelines suggest recovered patients should monitor their health and limit outdoor activities for two weeks after leaving the hospital, and check in for retesting in following weeks.

Some patients’ test results returned to positive in the follow-up checks, said Li Yueping, director of the intensive care unit at Guangzhou No.8 People's Hospital at the briefing.

The No.8 People's Hospital has found 13 discharged patients that tested positive again, although none showed renewed symptoms, according to Li. Nucleic acid tests for 104 close contacts of the patients all found negative results, said Li.

Cai Weiping, director of the Infectious Diseases Division of the No.8 People's Hospital, told Caixin that the positive results in the recovered patients were all found from anal swabs, a method rarely used in other parts of the country. Their results were in the “weak positive” range, said Cai.

The national treatment guideline only requires tests from throat or nose swabs for suspected patients as the virus is believed to spread mainly via respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes. But research by Guangzhou Medical University found the virus in fecal samples, suggesting a new path of transmission. Some hospitals in Guangdong have since adopted the anal swab in virus tests.

Cai said it is still unclear whether the virus detected in the recovered patients is still active. There is also the possibility of a discrepancy in samples, he said.

Song at Guangdong CDC said the province is preparing to put those recovered patients who re-tested positive under concentrated observation. Health authorities will also step up monitoring of discharged patients and their condition as they recover, said Song.

By the end of Monday, Guangdong reported 1,347 infections and 805 recoveries. The death toll reached seven, official data showed. 

Similar cases of recovered patients testing positive have been reported elsewhere in China.

Last week, a patient initially discharged after recovering in southwestern Sichuan province’s Chengdu city was readmitted after testing positive again in later check-ups.

Health authorities in the southern island province of Hainan also confirmed that some recovered patients had tested positive again. The authorities required discharged patients to stay home under quarantine for 14 days, and allowed them to be released after both throat and anal swab tests showed negative.”

[Shoeless]

7 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Health authorities in the southern island province of Hainan also confirmed that some recovered patients had tested positive again. The authorities required discharged patients to stay home under quarantine for 14 days, and allowed them to be released after both throat and anal swab tests showed negative.”

 

Oh no, really? That's a testing method? No wonder people don't want to get tested. 😲

[beaners]

15 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

From Caixin Global https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-02-26/14-of-recovered-covid-19-patients-in-guangdong-tested-positive-again-101520415.html

“About 14% of patients who recovered from the novel coronavirus and were discharged from hospitals in southern China’s Guangdong province were tested positive again in later check-ups, according to the local health authority. A positive test suggests the recovered patients may still carry the virus, adding complexity to efforts to control the outbreak.

There is no clear conclusion on why it happens and whether such patients could still be infectious, said Song Tie, deputy director of the Guangdong Center of Disease Control And Prevention (Guangdong CDC), at a Tuesday briefing.

According to the preliminary assessment, experts believed the patients are still recovering from lung infections and have yet to be fully healthy, according to Song. 

According to the latest treatment guidelines for the Covid-19 issued by the National Health Commission, patients can be considered recovered and released from hospital when their throat or nose swabs show up negative in two consecutive tests, with a CT scan indicating no lung lesions, and when they have no obvious symptoms such as fever. 

The guidelines suggest recovered patients should monitor their health and limit outdoor activities for two weeks after leaving the hospital, and check in for retesting in following weeks.

Some patients’ test results returned to positive in the follow-up checks, said Li Yueping, director of the intensive care unit at Guangzhou No.8 People's Hospital at the briefing.

The No.8 People's Hospital has found 13 discharged patients that tested positive again, although none showed renewed symptoms, according to Li. Nucleic acid tests for 104 close contacts of the patients all found negative results, said Li.

Cai Weiping, director of the Infectious Diseases Division of the No.8 People's Hospital, told Caixin that the positive results in the recovered patients were all found from anal swabs, a method rarely used in other parts of the country. Their results were in the “weak positive” range, said Cai.

The national treatment guideline only requires tests from throat or nose swabs for suspected patients as the virus is believed to spread mainly via respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes. But research by Guangzhou Medical University found the virus in fecal samples, suggesting a new path of transmission. Some hospitals in Guangdong have since adopted the anal swab in virus tests.

Cai said it is still unclear whether the virus detected in the recovered patients is still active. There is also the possibility of a discrepancy in samples, he said.

Song at Guangdong CDC said the province is preparing to put those recovered patients who re-tested positive under concentrated observation. Health authorities will also step up monitoring of discharged patients and their condition as they recover, said Song.

By the end of Monday, Guangdong reported 1,347 infections and 805 recoveries. The death toll reached seven, official data showed. 

Similar cases of recovered patients testing positive have been reported elsewhere in China.

Last week, a patient initially discharged after recovering in southwestern Sichuan province’s Chengdu city was readmitted after testing positive again in later check-ups.

Health authorities in the southern island province of Hainan also confirmed that some recovered patients had tested positive again. The authorities required discharged patients to stay home under quarantine for 14 days, and allowed them to be released after both throat and anal swab tests showed negative.”

This seems tied to the fecal route of transmission they are finding. As an unfortunate example of possible transmission, our area has had extreme rainfall and sewer overflow lately. That's not good.

It is also going to be especially difficult in areas where people don't consistently use sanitary sewer systems, like parts of India. 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/08/toilet-defecate-outdoors-stunting-sanitation/

[Ausmumof3]

47 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I've been trying to find some sort of spray that works on enveloped viruses like COVID-19, but the only thing that comes up that is readily available to the general public is bleach. Of course, people aren't going to want to spray their clothes with bleach. So either you wear raggedly clothes out to the store that you don't care if they get bleached, (lol), or you could wear blue farmer coveralls and leave them outside to hang in the sunlight. Or...? I don't know.  You can make yourself crazy thinking about all this. 

There a post further up thread with a study of the substances that were effective and concentration.

i did see the supermarket selling a canestan branded soaking liquid that was advertising effective against virus and bacteria.  Meant to look into it but haven’t.  What about sticking stuff in hot to boiling water - the stuff that can tolerate it?  I know it could tolerate warm water but not sure about boiling.

i don’t tend to worry that much - focus on hands to face contact because that’s easy and beyond that we will have to take our chances.  

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, beaners said:

This seems tied to the fecal route of transmission they are finding. As an unfortunate example of possible transmission, our area has had extreme rainfall and sewer overflow lately. That's not good.

It is also going to be especially difficult in areas where people don't consistently use sanitary sewer systems, like parts of India. 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/08/toilet-defecate-outdoors-stunting-sanitation/

One of the videos I watched I think maybe the four corners ones showed them spraying around drainage points - guy said something along the lines or worrying about the sewers or something. 

[Ausmumof3]

3 more cases in Thailand, 3 in Bahrain (26 so far all from Iran) 1 in Taiwan.

[Ausmumof3]

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN20K0GZ?__twitter_impression=true
 

list of current airline route suspensions from Reuters May be helpful for people looking at travel 

[Pen]

On 1/24/2020 at 11:08 AM, maize said:

I wonder if a big public health campaign to convince people too wear masks would make a difference? It's very common in Japan for example to see people in masks. They do seem to help prevent transmission--healthy people who wear a mask in public are less likely to get sick, so it would be nice if we could normalize their use.

 

I’m catching up back from start of thread!

I don’t think masks for general public will necessarily help a lot with Covid-19 because of its extreme transmissibility.  And because it’s hard to use proper protocol with masks themselves.  And because of sold out supplies and needing them for medical workers.

But might help with other illnesses.

So I would agree that I’d like it to be more normalized 

[Ausmumof3]

3 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I’m catching up back from start of thread!

I don’t think masks for general public will necessarily help a lot with Covid-19 because of its extreme transmissibility.  And because it’s hard to use proper protocol with masks themselves.  And because of sold out supplies and needing them for medical workers.

But might help with other illnesses.

So I would agree that I’d like it to be more normalized 

If anything here they are discouraging wearing of masks because they don’t want a shortage for health workers.  They say it provides minimum protection except in intense health care situations like intubation etc.  The exception is if you are the sick one because it does protect other people to some extent.
 

I’m not saying that’s necessarily right but its the current advice.

[Ausmumof3]

South Korea reported another 115 cases.  Total 1,261 cases. (284 today).