My mom is coming tomorrow...

[BakersDozen]

We have seen my mom twice in the last 7 years (both times only because she came back to NM to help a friend). Before she moved from NM to NJ we saw her maybe twice/year when she would visit us for a day or two (she couldn't stay longer than that because of her plans with friends back home...). There isn't enmity between us but there also isn't a friendship. She chooses anything and everything over family and she is, as all of her kids agree, 100% selfish. She has always been this way. And now she's moving. Here. She arrives tomorrow to start the house hunt. I found a home that meets all of her criteria (budget, one-level, flat yard) and is within walking distance of us so when she falls we can go help her, but she won't look at it because it doesn't have hardwood floors or a sanctuary for a yard. And she can see her neighbors. She falls but refuses to buy a walker (guess what she's getting for Xmas...I'm not joking). When she falls she refuses to call 911 - she expects my older sister drive 1.5 hours to pick her up even in the middle of the night. I have eaten my weight in cookies, chocolate and anything else I can find. I've washed everything I can possibly wash in the house including curtains (my therapy/stress reliever). I'm trying to not take my stress out on my kids...trying...

She'll be here in 24 hours...rocking my world...I'm a little stressed...my washing machine is surely going to break (and it's a Speed Queen)...

Edited December 18, 2019 by BakersDozen

[TechWife]

I'm so sorry you're stressed out. That would stress me out, too.

Just some ideas - feel free skip the rest of the post if you aren't where you want input right now. No problem at all.

Make sure to have discussions with your husband about what boundaries you want to establish - even if it's just bringing things up to mull over w/out setting hard boundaries - if you want to take a "let's see how this goes" approach. Sometimes discussing all of the "what ifs" is helpful to me to mentally prepare myself for a difficult situation & gives me time to think up different ideas.

Make sure you get a walker in the correct size - there are different sizes according to height. Some walkers are adjustable height, some are not. If a walker is incorrectly sized, it doesn't lend stability because the person using it can't properly stand.

Honestly, if she falls regularly and needs help getting up, you can set a boundary of "I'm afraid I'll hurt you - I'd rather the professionals help. I'll call 911 for you." It's honestly a legitimate concern. Another option might be to insist on setting up a visit to a PT together so that they can teach you some safe ways of helping her up (if they will do that). That might also give them an opportunity to put the idea in her head that using a walker will actually help her be more independent in the long run. Falls can have disastrous consequences in the long run for older people. Those consequences can rob her of her independence quicker than she can blink.

 

 

[BakersDozen]

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Falls can have disastrous consequences in the long run for older people. Those consequences can rob her of her independence quicker than she can blink.

She spent almost 3 days on the floor in her house once. Another 24 hours soon after that. She won't stop climbing the treacherous stairs in her house. She won't get anyone to come in and help her. And we remind her that if she wants to be independent then she has to help herself, too. It's like talking to a wall.

I'm open to input/advice, absolutely.

Dh and I talk regularly and he is great about listening. He was a key helper with is dad before his dad passed last year so my dh sees what it seems my mom can't - the need to plan ahead and be prepared.

 I wish I was feeling happy or excited at the idea of having my mom here by us...it's just very sad to me that I don't feel that way.

[Pen]

I’m sorry you are having this stress.

it sounds like her falling is frequent enough that she may need to be in a residence facility with people who can help with that, not a separate private home , even if just one story...   or maybe that consideration would at least be enough for her to use walker 

[matrips]

I’m sorry.  That sounds so rough!

Some ideas based on my years with my elderly folks.  how old is she?  She sounds better for a retirement community; especially if she’s more friends oriented than family ☹️  One of those medic necklaces would be good for her- it senses when someone falls or they can push a button.  Sit with her while she fills out the paperwork for it.  My mom fell a lot due to uti’s and meds.  A friends mom fell a lot due to drinking.  It might be good to have her sign paperwork allowing you permissions for health etc.  a workup may be able to find out why she’s falling so much.  Weakness?  Maybe PT is needed.

how much time do you have for her? Something to think about, because parents can take it all.  My folks moved near us 7 years ago and my dad was unwell.  All my time was consumed by his appts, shopping,  and doing stuff.  I loved him, and was happy to do it, but wow, I wasn’t ready for that.  And there was no way I could have kept it up long term. I had 3 little kids and was homeschooling too.  So be careful before you offer to do her shopping or run her around and whatever else.  Maybe consider having her use a grocery shopper (we have Shipt here).  And have her use the transportation that a lot of cities offer seniors.  Check out the senior centers/classes.  Get her  signed up for uber.  Basically, have an alternative ready besides YOU doing everything for her. Have her be as independent as she can be. That boundary is easiest to set up in the beginning and not down the road. Be firm.  Don’t let her refuse common sense things if she wants your help.  they just don’t see their downhill progression like others can.

i hope it all goes better than you expect. 🙂

[BakersDozen]

Quote

t sounds like her falling is frequent enough that she may need to be in a residence facility with people who can help with that, not a separate private home , even if just one story...   or maybe that consideration would at least be enough for her to use walker 

We did look into independent living (her own small place on the grounds of assisted living) but the cost was whew...high. My mom has not planned well financially. She is insistent on living in her own place. The reason she won't let anyone call 911 is because after a certain number of calls they have to take her in and she doesn't want that. At least that's what she says. I have no idea why she won't at least have a walker even if she doesn't use it. She wouldn't invest in a device that she could use to call for help when she fell, either.

It's crazy...my siblings and I are as different as night and day and we agree on almost nothing save for my mom. So I guess that's one good thing - this is reuniting the 4 of us at least via email/phone calls.

[BakersDozen]

Quote

how much time do you have for her? Something to think about, because parents can take it all.  My folks moved near us 7 years ago and my dad was unwell.  All my time was consumed by his appts, shopping,  and doing stuff.  I loved him, and was happy to do it, but wow, I wasn’t ready for that.  And there was no way I could have kept it up long term. I had 3 little kids and was homeschooling too.  So be careful before you offer to do her shopping or run her around and whatever else.  Maybe consider having her use a grocery shopper (we have Shipt here).  And have her use the transportation that a lot of cities offer seniors.  Check out the senior centers/classes.  Get her  signed up for uber.  Basically, have an alternative ready besides YOU doing everything for her. Have her be as independent as she can be. That boundary is easiest to set up in the beginning and not down the road. Be firm.  Don’t let her refuse common sense things if she wants your help.  they just don’t see their downhill progression like others can.

We are very careful with our time in that we aren't involved in many activities and guard our free time from being taken over with on-the-go lifestyle. If she lived across the street it would be way easier to assist with groceries, etc. She has been told that if she chooses a hardwood floor home where she can't see her neighbors that is 20-30 minutes from us then she will need Uber or whatever. It's hard because all of my young adult kids live in town and I know my mom expects them to help her which is a laugh because they are incredibly busy. Not that they won't step in as they are able but they don't have the freedom of time that I do (work, school). I think my mom is going to face a reality that is far different than what she is envisioning by living here. We will do what we can and are pulling together as a family, but at the same time I know I need to protect my family and our time.

She is very, very social. If she could afford to live in a community that would be great but the prices are through the roof high. This is one of the top retirement locations in the country so she'll have no problem getting involved with things if she can avoid falling/getting injured.

I know we're going to disappoint her and make her angry. Again. I hate feeling like I'm a little kid again and afraid of my mom and her temper/demands.

[J-rap]

Wow, that sounds difficult.  I'd get her set up as much as possible to have lots of support from other people/agencies.  (The local Metro Mobility (if she can't drive),  the grocery delivery service, the local senior center, etc. etc.)    I think one of those fall buttons is a good idea.  It does sound like an apartment in a senior facility would be her best option.

My dad is the opposite.  He's 92 and still wants to do everything himself.  We (my siblings and I and even my children) keep pushing him to accept more help, but he is stubborn!  I finally convinced him to let me climb a ladder to change a lightbulb on a high ceiling the other day, and he kept apologizing!

One thing I just thought of, is that you could set up an afternoon as the one afternoon each week that you commit to her.  So, she might call you other days, but you would just say "Add it to your list of things to do on Tuesday afternoon."  Even things like errand running and doctors' appointments, if possible.  

It sounds like she's someone who will need firm boundaries.

[J-rap]

6 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

We are very careful with our time in that we aren't involved in many activities and guard our free time from being taken over with on-the-go lifestyle. If she lived across the street it would be way easier to assist with groceries, etc. She has been told that if she chooses a hardwood floor home where she can't see her neighbors that is 20-30 minutes from us then she will need Uber or whatever. It's hard because all of my young adult kids live in town and I know my mom expects them to help her which is a laugh because they are incredibly busy. Not that they won't step in as they are able but they don't have the freedom of time that I do (work, school). I think my mom is going to face a reality that is far different than what she is envisioning by living here. We will do what we can and are pulling together as a family, but at the same time I know I need to protect my family and our time.

She is very, very social. If she could afford to live in a community that would be great but the prices are through the roof high. This is one of the top retirement locations in the country so she'll have no problem getting involved with things if she can avoid falling/getting injured.

I know we're going to disappoint her and make her angry. Again. I hate feeling like I'm a little kid again and afraid of my mom and her temper/demands.

About senior living communities...  At least in our state, you can apply for medical assistance when you are a senior.  It is a big job just to apply.  I just helped my dad with all of that, and we probably ended up sending in over 50 pages!!  I think it's our state's version of Medicaid for the elderly, but it specifically addresses living expenses/rent.  Many really nice senior communities here surprisingly accept Medicaid, and they would accept medical assistance payments.  Anyway, it's certainly worth checking into.  You might be pleasantly surprised!

[BakersDozen]

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One thing I just thought of, is that you could set up an afternoon as the one afternoon each week that you commit to her.  So, she might call you other days, but you would just say "Add it to your list of things to do on Tuesday afternoon."  Even things like errand running and doctors' appointments, if possible.  

That is a fantastic idea! Thanks!

Senior living communities/application process: It took numerous emails and two phone calls just to get my mom to call her bank and have them fax a statement of funds to the realtor. The idea of doing anything "business" makes my mom shut down. She'll putter around her house and yard all the day long but will not send a letter/email or make a phone call. I would love for her to begin the application process for a few things but she just won't. Maybe I'll try again once she's here...even that alone was a feat! She wouldn't make plane reservations - my sil made them for her. She won't.do.anything for herself.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, BakersDozen said:

I know we're going to disappoint her and make her angry. Again. I hate feeling like I'm a little kid again and afraid of my mom and her temper/demands.

Is there a reason her mental health issues aren't being treated? 

I'd tell her to take a flying leap and not help her move near me if she has been unstable mentally in the past and isn't getting treatment. 

I don't know, we lived with that for a lot of years when I was growing up. I'd be zero tolerance on it. Who is her health care power of attorney? If she's making choices that are not good for herself, you have both your legal liability AND maybe some power to use the POA to get her better care.

[BakersDozen]

Quote

Is there a reason her mental health issues aren't being treated? 

I have no clue. She took all of us to family counseling as kids then threw a huge tantrum (at home, of course, not in front of the counselor) when things didn't go as planned (she was part of the problem...she didn't like that). She's just got a temper and no hesitation showing it. Maybe we just considered it part of who she is? She was Jerry Spring material for a long time...that temper...  I honestly haven't been around her enough these last 10 years or so and don't know if she's gotten better or worse. One thing I know is that she needs/wants her own space and time - she cannot live with people (she hated being married). She also knows I won't put up with any crud as I kicked her out back in 1998 when she verbally attacked my dh and again in 2010 when she was verbally abusive to one of my daughters. So the few times she's visited after that she has been civil...I guess that's a good thing.

POA is my sil. We've discussed at length at what point POA would come into play and my mom exhibits a relatively sound mind, just a very selfish one. As one of my sisters put it, "Mom doesn't take into account the effect her actions have on others." She's lived her entire life so completely self-absorbed/self-serving it doesn't cross her mind that other people are feeling the effect of her decisions. As for her temper, she seems to think it her right to say what she wants and not have any ill effect from the one being verbally shredded. Have you ever seen someone lose their temper in a restaurant because the right kind of sugar substitute isn't on the table? Or go off on the cashier at the grocery because they gave the wrong change? That's my mom.

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by BakersDozen

[BakersDozen]

Quote

I'd tell her to take a flying leap and not help her move near me if she has been unstable mentally in the past and isn't getting treatment. 

Well...she does know we're not exactly helping her get out here - she expected her kids to drop everything and go to NJ, help her pack, drive the truck across the country, etc. The unanimous response was, "Hire a mover." Does that come close to telling her to take a flying leap?

Edited December 18, 2019 by BakersDozen

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, BakersDozen said:

that temper

I'm wondering if what you're calling a temper a psych might call bipolar. 

1 hour ago, BakersDozen said:

POA is my sil.

And does this SIL live where your mother is trying to move? That's pretty odd if she's moving near you and the SIL lives radically elsewhere. And frankly, making the SIL the POA is a pretty bizarre choice. She should move near her POA.

1 hour ago, BakersDozen said:

She's lived her entire life so completely self-absorbed/self-serving it doesn't cross her mind that other people are feeling the effect of her decisions.

You're describing social thinking issues.

1 hour ago, BakersDozen said:

Have you ever seen someone lose their temper in a restaurant because the right kind of sugar substitute isn't on the table? Or go off on the cashier at the grocery because they gave the wrong change?

OCD? Aspergers?

I don't know, I'm not meaning to excuse being a nasty, unkind, bitter, whatever person. But if she means to be kind and decent and just really has a hard time taking perspectives, dealing with things that change or aren't as she expected, problem solving, emotional regulation, etc., maybe there's a larger reason.

1 hour ago, BakersDozen said:

She also knows I won't put up with any crud

Sounds wise. 

[BakersDozen]

Quote

And does this SIL live where your mother is trying to move? That's pretty odd if she's moving near you and the SIL lives radically elsewhere. And frankly, making the SIL the POA is a pretty bizarre choice. She should move near her POA.

SIL lives in CA and there is no way in earth she or my brother would ever have my mom live near them. Ever. My mom knows that. She made SIL POA because SIL is the most detached, if that makes sense. She's the most emotionally removed from anything having to do with my mom...smart move on her part (my dh does the same thing). We've received the same input - that my mom should live closest to the one having POA. But she chose SIL.

 

Quote

But if she means to be kind and decent and just really has a hard time taking perspectives, dealing with things that change or aren't as she expected, problem solving, emotional regulation, etc., maybe there's a larger reason.

You may be right. But I truly believe that if my mom means to be decent it's only to serve her own purpose. She has, in the past, enjoyed throwing verbal zingers when angry because it makes others angry and that makes her feel good. I don't know...I gave up trying to figure her out and have tried to figure out how to work with/handle things on my end instead. I need to control my own emotions and words. I need to be patient and not have expectations. This is going to be a whole new thing for her and me.

[Laura Corin]

She's moving in with you while she looks for a place to live?  Is that right?  Be very, very careful. 

We moved my mum in with us (against my better judgement, but we couldn't rent something in her name in her absence) while she looked for a place to live .  She found fault with every place that we found for her to live, and she finally ended up living with us for two years.  Of course nothing was as nice as our house...... 

I finally cracked, researched care homes, told her that she could no longer live with us and gave her the choice of which one to move into. She has the money.  It was not good, really not good, but the stress of having her emotional demands in the house was damaging all of us.  I was in therapy.  I now go to see her every week at the home.  She's not a happy woman, but she's doing her best not to be - not taking advantage of the opportunities that are offered.  Her happiness is not my responsibility.

Good luck.  It sounds as if you are much clearer about your mum's personality than I was before all this began - I had lived overseas for a couple of decades and hadn't sorted through what I actually thought about her personality before she reached a crisis and I had to take responsibility. 

[Familia]

I am so sorry you are stressed, about to begin a challenging time, and have a difficult mother.  I have walked almost exactly the same road.  Do continue to set boundaries, especially for your time.  I do not mean simply the time you spend helping, but the mental time.  Be as generous as your stress level can tolerate, and as generous as your heart wants to be, but protect your mental time fiercely.   When you are not with her or directly doing something for her or planning, let.it.go (easier said than done, but it took me a long time to realize that I needed to schedule my thinking about it as well as the work)

ETA - you are doing a very loving thing for your mother.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Familia

[Pen]

10 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

I have no clue. She took all of us to family counseling as kids then threw a huge tantrum (at home, of course, not in front of the counselor) when things didn't go as planned (she was part of the problem...she didn't like that). She's just got a temper and no hesitation showing it. Maybe we just considered it part of who she is? She was Jerry Spring material for a long time...that temper...  I honestly haven't been around her enough these last 10 years or so and don't know if she's gotten better or worse. One thing I know is that she needs/wants her own space and time - she cannot live with people (she hated being married). She also knows I won't put up with any crud as I kicked her out back in 1998 when she verbally attacked my dh and again in 2010 when she was verbally abusive to one of my daughters. So the few times she's visited after that she has been civil...I guess that's a good thing.

 

If you can catch what might be preliminary signs of building to tantrum or lashing out, try to nip that in the bud before she blows.  

If that’s possible—sometimes the attempt to stop a tantrum becomes the final trigger to have one. If she doesn’t want to act that way, it’s remotely possible that having a word or sign that can be used could help.  But she may enjoy tantruming and lashing out. 

Do you have an option place for her to go to on an immediate basis if necessary? Residence motel? Or if Mother’s impossible can you call SIL in as POA?  Or call 911 to take her to hospital for evaluation? 

[catz]

6 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

She's moving in with you while she looks for a place to live?  Is that right?  Be very, very careful. 

We moved my mum in with us (against my better judgement, but we couldn't rent something in her name in her absence) while she looked for a place to live .  She found fault with every place that we found for her to live, and she finally ended up living with us for two years.  Of course nothing was as nice as our house...... 

I finally cracked, researched care homes, told her that she could no longer live with us and gave her the choice of which one to move into. She has the money.  It was not good, really not good, but the stress of having her emotional demands in the house was damaging all of us.  I was in therapy.  I now go to see her every week at the home.  She's not a happy woman, but she's doing her best not to be - not taking advantage of the opportunities that are offered.  Her happiness is not my responsibility.

Good luck.  It sounds as if you are much clearer about your mum's personality than I was before all this began - I had lived overseas for a couple of decades and hadn't sorted through what I actually thought about her personality before she reached a crisis and I had to take responsibility. 

Agree!  If she is moving in with you while she looks for something, I'd set a hard limit on how long she could stay.  If she weren't already on her way, I'd insist on finding her a short term rental.  I can imagine having her under your roof is going to be hard!  To me it sounds like she'd be better off in a senior living community with step wise care.   They have great amenities and social opportunities in place.  And having clear boundaries on your ability to help is a really good idea.  

[matrips]

11 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

Senior living communities/application process: It took numerous emails and two phone calls just to get my mom to call her bank and have them fax a statement of funds to the realtor. The idea of doing anything "business" makes my mom shut down. She'll putter around her house and yard all the day long but will not send a letter/email or make a phone call.

Your sister as POA should be able to start the application process.  If your mom is shutting down at the thought of it, she’s not really capable.  And because it is such a process, it’s better to start now.

your mom is moving in with you?!  I didn’t catch that.  I’d suggest a weekly type motel. It’ll be more motivating for her to find a place.  Again, sis as POA can pay the motel from your moms funds. POA just needs to act in the best interest.  And your mom is obviously having medical issues with the falling.

good luck!

[Pen]

11 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

That is a fantastic idea! Thanks!

Senior living communities/application process: It took numerous emails and two phone calls just to get my mom to call her bank and have them fax a statement of funds to the realtor. The idea of doing anything "business" makes my mom shut down. She'll putter around her house and yard all the day long but will not send a letter/email or make a phone call. I would love for her to begin the application process for a few things but she just won't. Maybe I'll try again once she's here...even that alone was a feat! She wouldn't make plane reservations - my sil made them for her. She won't.do.anything for herself.

 

You may know from a lifetime that that’s just how she always is.  But from outside it sounds like an indication of needing to be in a care facility not on her own.

And she may be able to get into a nicer place if with some funds she can find a place where she buys in and then gradually “spends down” so Medicaid can help while there and while moving stepwise toward nursing level care.  

A grandmother of mine, anyway was in such a place—sold her own house and then bought an apartment cottage unit — still at a mostly independent level, still driving her own car— in a senior multi level assisted care place, where she remained for 20 or so years, gradually moving into more and more assistance, and from own cottage to a room in main building.  It meant she had basically zero assets left when she died, but it allowed her to be in much nicer place than if she’d waited till later on. It was set up so the purchase price of the initial unit basically financed a lot of her stay, iirc.   

 

[BakersDozen]

Quote

She's moving in with you while she looks for a place to live?  Is that right? 

Oh goodness, no. She has rented a place for a month then will take things step by step. She won't even stay with us when she visits for 1-2 days. If she was actually living with us I think my dh would move out.

[catz]

1 minute ago, BakersDozen said:

Oh goodness, no. She has rented a place for a month then will take things step by step. She won't even stay with us when she visits for 1-2 days. If she was actually living with us I think my dh would move out.

Oh thank goodness! It will be much easier to set up boundaries out of the gate.  And if she gets plugged into a social community where she feels "busy" it will be better for everyone I am sure.  Thinking of you!

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

If you can catch what might be preliminary signs of building to tantrum or lashing out, try to nip that in the bud before she blows.  

If that’s possible—sometimes the attempt to stop a tantrum becomes the final trigger to have one. If she doesn’t want to act that way, it’s remotely possible that having a word or sign that can be used could help.  But she may enjoy tantruming and lashing out. 

Do you have an option place for her to go to on an immediate basis if necessary? Residence motel? Or if Mother’s impossible can you call SIL in as POA?  Or call 911 to take her to hospital for evaluation? 

I don’t want to start a debate. Please understand that is not my intent. I find this to be unhealthy advice for anyone. The OP isn’t responsible for stopping the temper tantrums. That’s her mom’s responsibility, and may bot even be her mom’s desire.

The OP only needs to be responsible for her own action and reactions. Accepting responsibility for other people’s actions creates a co dependent situation at best and an abusive situation at worst. The OP doesn’t need to develop the habit of taking responsibility for defusing situations that her adult parent is creating. The end result is unhealthy for everyone, teaches her mother nothing and gives her mother an opportunity to blame her if she isn’t successful.

Responsibility for the actions and emotional management of another person is never a good idea. 

 

It sounds like the OP already has some good boundaries in play, a supportive husband  and can expand upon those boundaries if and when needed. 

[Pen]

4 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

Oh goodness, no. She has rented a place for a month then will take things step by step. She won't even stay with us when she visits for 1-2 days. If she was actually living with us I think my dh would move out.

 

Yay!!!   Thank goodness! I misunderstood and thought she was coming to visit and staying at your house, in a way that could be hard to then get her out. 

[Shoeless]

Oh wow, that sounds like...so much.  

When my stepmother was ill and falling, we tried to get her to wear one of those buttons so she could get help if she needed it.  No dice, not even after she fell and broke her hip.  She was laying in the dirt in the backyard for hours before a neighbor came home and saw her.  I kind of thought that would have made her see the light, but no.    

All you can do is what they'll let you do.  People who are difficult their whole life continue being difficult in their elder years, too.  Some of them are willing to take their difficult personalities to the extreme to make a point.  What point? To whom? Can't say! Neither can they! But there's a point, by God, and they are making it! 🙄  😉

Hang in there!

[BakersDozen]

Just a quick update. My mom is settled into the rental. She is...old. She has aged so much, it's astonishing. She's very quiet but her temper is still there. How do I know? On the ride home from the airport she read the political news of the day and made a comment that was grossly lacking in foundation or truth. My sweet 16yod who was in the back seat offered some factual information in her gentle, non-confrontational way. What followed was an interesting discussion about Bush, Reagan, Hoover, the Berlin Wall, Iranian hostage crisis, economy, and impeachment. For every comment my mom threw out, my girl solidly added facts that provided balance and insight. I was driving or I would have given her a high five. My mom sulked. When we got to the rental she immediately turned on the TV then muttered about not having her one news station (you can guess which one...). So we just said good night and left. I told dd I was insanely proud of how she eloquently and patiently responded (and pleased as punch at her knowledge base...yeah for Gov't/Politics/US History courses in high school!!), but that for her sake maybe let political comments fly right on by and do not engage.

Had a friend and my dd not been in the van I'm sure my mom would have had a lot more to say if I'd tried to talk politics. Which I'm smart enough to not do with her.