Spelling Woes

[Jen Kandel]

I am homeschooling my 7 and 5 year old children for the 2nd year and am in a major spelling conundrum. My son (7) is using All About Spelling with great success and generally does really well on spelling practice and weekly tests. However, when we switch to any form of writing or copywork it seems like every single word he writes is spelled phonetically. I know that he is an auditory learner but when he is still spelling 'was' as 'wus' as he writes it's driving me bananas. He is getting frustrated also because any writing-related assignment instantly takes at least three times longer than it should in order to correct spelling errors. Any advice here?

[....]

It's been years since I listened to these, but somewhere on one of SWB's audio lectures - I think it's the one of teaching writing - she talks about spelling and writing being two different developmental tasks when they're little.  Their brains have to develop more before their spelling abilities translate into their writing.

[Frances]

For copywork, it seems like he should do better at spelling than for writing assignments, since he should be focused on the text of what he is copying. Have you tried having him look for his own errors after he finishes? Are you reminding him to look at each word he is copying? Do you also do dictation? Personally, I founded it and copywork to be way more valuable in the early years than any writing assignments.

As for writing assignments, I’m not sure I would make him correct every single spelling error at this age. I certainly would encourage him to read over his own work, probably out loud, and identify as many spelling errors as possible and correct those. The more he reads, the better his spelling will improve, and his ability to spot errors. My own son was very verbally advanced in every way except spelling. For him, time, copywork and dictation, and Sequential Spelling did the trick. Outside of copywork and dictation, the only required writing he did at your son’s age was thank you notes or short letters or cards to grandparents. 

[Ellie]

2 hours ago, Jen Kandel said:

I am homeschooling my 7 and 5 year old children for the 2nd year and am in a major spelling conundrum. My son (7) is using All About Spelling with great success and generally does really well on spelling practice and weekly tests. However, when we switch to any form of writing or copywork it seems like every single word he writes is spelled phonetically. I know that he is an auditory learner but when he is still spelling 'was' as 'wus' as he writes it's driving me bananas. He is getting frustrated also because any writing-related assignment instantly takes at least three times longer than it should in order to correct spelling errors. Any advice here?

He's just seven; things will get better even if you don't work very much with them right now. 🙂

How much copywork and writing does he have to do? 

[HomeAgain]

I could have written your post a few years ago.  We did AAS but it didn't seem to stick or work.  I think part was age, part was.......okay, age.  He wasn't ready to take those rules and apply them across his work.
I ended up doing more copywork with him and we started a free program called Dictation Day By Day.  It teaches spelling through repetition, where each day a passage is given for dictation and the new words are written out for the child.  We incorporated the rules from AAS into teaching the new words before starting the passage and I'd hover over him while he wrote to stop any misspellings as they start.
We're now on the third year of it (4th year, according to the book titles since it starts at 2nd year) and ds spells quite well.  He grasps more nuances, too, like hearing commas and possessives properly.  The copywork complements it well by introducing more complex words and sentences first before ds ever reaches that level in spelling, so he's constantly reinforcing the smaller words as well as learning the more difficult ones.

[Miss Tick]

After my twins I swore off teaching spelling before third grade. They just didn't write enough to incorporate the spelling they were learning. Even with my current fifth grader I see some of this. I can't ask her to write something and expect completely correct spelling on the first go. It is much better than it was! but still not perfect. I limit the majority of my spelling corrections to spelling time. Occasionally I add words to the spelling missed list that I see repeatedly misspelled in her writing.

[Momto6inIN]

I didn't begin to see crossover of spelling skills into writing skills until late 6th or 7th grade (11th for my reeeeeallly baaaaaad speller).

I don't stop the writing process to correct grammar or spelling. Let them get their thoughts on paper however it comes out, and then work on editing as a separate step. There are so many skills that come into play with composition (thinking of the ideas, putting them into well formed sentences, handwriting, spelling, and grammar) that it really does take a terribly long time for them to all come together well.

We don't do any composition before 3rd grade though - copywork only before that.

 

[wendyroo]

I agree with others that spelling and writing are separate skills and that it isn't unusual for a child to know how to spell a word during a spelling lesson and then spell it incorrectly 10 minutes later during a writing lesson.

My first grader does not do any independent written composition.  He does copywork, the dictation sentences in AAS 2, and oral narrations (which I occasionally write down and have him copy).  He is thriving with AAS and does seem to be an intuitive speller who is able to apply the rules to his own words.  He has correctly spelled milk, chapstick and baby wipes on the grocery list.  Of course he has also completely butchered the spelling of other items he has written, and as long as I can sort of figure out what I need to buy, I just thank him and leave them alone.

My third grader is a very (very, very) resistant writer, and his spelling is frankly atrocious.  He still does copywork every day, the dictation sentences in AAS 3, oral narrations, and a few one-sentences written narrations every week.  He is not thriving with AAS, but all of my experience with him tells me that is due to his executive function weaknesses and would be the case with any other spelling curriculum we tried as well...and we have tried many and always returned to AAS as the least bad.  He is completely incapable of applying spelling rules (which he knows by heart and can accurately explain and give examples for) to new words.  Even during spelling lessons he just throws in random letters willy nilly.  I would be thrilled if he would spell words phonetically, even if most of them were still technically wrong.

My fifth grader is finally showing some spelling skills in his independent writing.  At this point he does the dictation sentences in AAS 4, oral narrations, sentence building exercises, and about one paragraph of independent writing every other day.  He recently wrote a 4 page story about a space battle, and I found his spelling (both correct and incorrect) reassuring.  There were many words that he got wrong that I would not necessarily expect him to know at this stage; he spelled diamond as "dimond", surprise as "suprise", and torpedoes as "torpedos".  It was also abundantly clear that we need to review letter-doubling rules - in one single paragraph he wrote "planed", "atack", "spoted", "asist", "suplies", and "runing".  But, I was very impressed by how well he was able to apply the spelling rules he knew to new words; he correctly spelled harvested, operation, astray, unfortunately, steal, gazillion, and many more.  Plus, at this point he is consistently spelling all the ubiquitous little words (then, while, was, his, were, for, etc) correctly, which is a great relief after many years of wondering how he could do so well on his AAS dictation and then misspell "and" in an independent sentence later that day.

Wendy

[Susan in TX]

I don't even start a spelling curriculum until the child can read fluently, which is usually 3rd grade. I don't require any written composition until we start Rod and Staff English in 4th grade. Before then we do copywork and/or penmanship. So I would back off of the writing assignments altogether. When he does copywork keep it short and have him correct any mistakes. 

Susan in TX

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I agree with everyone else.  This is normal.  I would only remind him for copywork, where he should be learning to transfer the word- first letter by letter, then perhaps syllable by syllable, then finally word by word from one place to another.  So no reason for errors with careful attention.  

If it's absolutely driving you bonkers, for high frequency words you can use the "say to spell" technique.  Pronounce was as it's spelled as a reminder when spelling it.  As in:

"your next word to spell is was (wuz).  Remember, we say to spell: w/a/s (rhymes with grass)"

 

[MerryAtHope]

Yup, completely normal! For outside writing, focus on his content and what he's trying to say and just encourage him. Spelling will come in time :-). When students are writing outside of spelling time, they have many more things to focus on–content, creativity, organization, punctuation, spelling, grammar, capitalization, what kind of audience they are addressing–it’s a lot to think about at once! Many kids are in junior high before they are able to put these skills together more effectively. Since he's doing well with AAS otherwise, just keep going. Here's more info on how to handle spelling mistakes. Have fun with your little ones!

[ktgrok]

I like and use AAS but it doesn't get to the "tricky" words for SO LONG! So we got these for my very visual dyslexic DD and she loves them. She practices "drawing" the word and saying the sentence on the back and it really is working! They have three sets that all together cover most of the most common words. And like I said, they WORK. 

An example for the word "was" is that the tricky letter, the "a" that sounds like a 'u' has a picture of a girl's face - so the lowercase "a" looks like her face. That way his attention is drawn to the "tricky" letter. Then on the back it has the sentence, "Was Anna Sad" with the W, A, and S in a different color. Since Anna obviously doesn't start with a U it helps them remember, same with the S in sad. Now, yes, this is taught in AAS eventually with the concept that the A says it's third sound often after a W, and that the /z/ sound at the the end of a word is almost always an S. But that isn't until I think the end of level 2, and he needs to know how to spell that word right now. So get the cards 🙂

https://www.iseeispellilearn.com/store/p1/PictureSightWordsSET1.html

This is for the free sample so you can really see what they have: https://www.iseeispellilearn.com/freesamples.html

Link is to their website, but you can get them on Amazon with free 2 day shipping if you have Prime. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Ktgrok

[Mbelle]

I was worried about spelling last year with my then 1st grader.  My oldest child didn't really get spelling until around 7th grade, so I don't know why I was worried.  She was a fantastic reader and writer so it really was not connected to her reading ability at all.  He's doing apples and pears this year, but I did do AAS with my oldest in 7th grade and it worked too, but I just thought I'd try something different.  If I need to we will go back to AAS.

16 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

like and use AAS but it doesn't get to the "tricky" words for SO LONG!

I can't remember AAS (dd is in college now), but Apples and Pears seems to do a lot of the tricky words and I was wondering why.  Those word are hard to remember.  I don't know if either way is better, but was, of, all, why etc.. are in the first third of the book.  I just keep going, because they repeat over and over.