Any Math program without a grade level?

[Mom28kds]

My DD is melting down as we speak. I'm pulling her out of public school after going for 2 years. She did CLE when she was homeschooled before and wanted to go back to that. She has executive functioning issues and stresses out terribly when something is hard or she doesn't understand. In having her take the placement test to see what math level to do she doesn't remember any of it. She'll be going into 8th grade and CLE says to give the 700 placement test. The thought of her going back grade levels for her is so depressing. At the public school she had no idea where she was only that she was in a room that needed extra help. Are there any Math programs that I could look up that doesn't have a grade level on it and I can place her where she needs to be without her feeling like a failure?

[Pen]

Math u see

[Slache]

Math on the level

Math mammoth dark blue

Rightstart ($!)

Key to

Life of Fred

Vintage math (Strayer Upton/Ray's)

 

I like Key to for your situation. If it were my kid I'd rotate Key to books according to her need and ability and use Xtra Math for fact practice if necessary.

[shinyhappypeople]

Learn Math Fast 

Principles of Mathematics

[Pen]

http://www.jamestanton.com/

 

[Pen]

The Magic & Joy of Exploding Dots: A revolutionary concept that changes the way we learn and teach mathematics https://www.amazon.com/dp/9388459113/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_0l0qDb1076V1E

[Mom28kds]

You are all so wonderful!! Thank you so much for the responses. Now off to go look at them all :)

 

[PeterPan]

3 hours ago, Mom28kds said:

At the public school she had no idea where she was only that she was in a room that needed extra help.

So did she have an IEP? And since you're in Ohio, have you applied for the Jon Peterson? Then you could have a tutor work with her and assign homework. 

CLE is not keyed to Common Core, so you have the issue of where she was relative to the class (which must have been discrepant because they were pulling her out) and where she is relative to ANY curriculum, like whether she was even retaining with CLE.

If she has a disability of number sense, SLD math, dyscalculia, pick a name, it may not be worth it to focus on computation and going backward exceedingly. She needs her basic facts, 2 digit math in her head, FRACTIONS, life skills math. Beyond that, hand her a calculator and move forward.

                                            Working with Algebra Tiles (2nd Edition)                                     

                                            Didax Educational Resources Dice Activities for Algebraic Thinking                                      

                                            Dice Activities for Mathematical Thinking                                     

I just got these to use with my ds. They say a range of grades on the cover and you print her pages from a cd anyway. If when you place her she needs to go back a bit, then you might supplement it with 10 minutes daily with you doing these hands-on investigations.

This only goes through gr6, but she won't be able to tell after you print the pages. If she can't do them, I'd definitely have her backing up and working through them. https://www.evan-moor.com/p/20051/Evan-Moor-Daily-Word-Problems-Grade-6 With a calculator is fine. The question is whether she can understand multi-step word problems and work through them, and this series is keyed to Common Core. I haven't looked for grades beyond 6, sorry. There's probably something out there and I just haven't looked yet.

I have not seen this in person. It just showed up when I searched for gr8 word problems and it seems like it could be an option.                                             Word Problems, Grade 6-8: Workbook 1 (Kumon Math Workbooks)                                     

Edited August 1, 2019 by PeterPan

[Mom28kds]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

So did she have an IEP? And since you're in Ohio, have you applied for the Jon Peterson? Then you could have a tutor work with her and assign homework. 

CLE is not keyed to Common Core, so you have the issue of where she was relative to the class (which must have been discrepant because they were pulling her out) and where she is relative to ANY curriculum, like whether she was even retaining with CLE.

If she has a disability of number sense, SLD math, dyscalculia, pick a name, it may not be worth it to focus on computation and going backward exceedingly. She needs her basic facts, 2 digit math in her head, FRACTIONS, life skills math. Beyond that, hand her a calculator and move forward.

                                            Working with Algebra Tiles (2nd Edition)                                     

                                            Didax Educational Resources Dice Activities for Algebraic Thinking                                      

                                            Dice Activities for Mathematical Thinking                                     

I just got these to use with my ds. They say a range of grades on the cover and you print her pages from a cd anyway. If when you place her she needs to go back a bit, then you might supplement it with 10 minutes daily with you doing these hands-on investigations.

This only goes through gr6, but she won't be able to tell after you print the pages. If she can't do them, I'd definitely have her backing up and working through them. https://www.evan-moor.com/p/20051/Evan-Moor-Daily-Word-Problems-Grade-6 With a calculator is fine. The question is whether she can understand multi-step word problems and work through them, and this series is keyed to Common Core. I haven't looked for grades beyond 6, sorry. There's probably something out there and I just haven't looked yet.

I have not seen this in person. It just showed up when I searched for gr8 word problems and it seems like it could be an option.                                             Word Problems, Grade 6-8: Workbook 1 (Kumon Math Workbooks)                                     

Thank you! I was just checking on the Jon Peterson yesterday. She says she doesn't want a tutor but we will see :) Yes, she has an IEP but if that's all I need to get her to do then how in the world will I be able to do high school Math with her. She doesn't retain much. That's part of our struggle.

[PeterPan]

Yes, if she has an IEP, you find a provider and apply for the scholarship and it will be automatic, boom. Time is a wasting! Good providers are filling up right now. 

To find providers, go to the ODE (ohio dept of ed) website, search for Jon Peterson Scholarship, and search providers. You can limit by county, by area of service provided, etc. If someone is NOT on the provider list, they can get added. It takes a while, so it's easier to start with another provider and have the tutor you want subcontract with the provider. That's what I'm doing with an SLP I want to use until she gets set up on the scholarship.

Given the load you have going, I'm not sure I would consider it her choice on the tutor, at least not till you investigate to see if there would be someone who is a good fit. She might actually like it once she has a good fit. With SLDs, you're automatically at tier 2. Anxiety, if listed in her IEP as her disabling condition, would be tier 3. If SLDs are the disabling condition, then she'll be tier 2. 

[Mom28kds]

21 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Yes, if she has an IEP, you find a provider and apply for the scholarship and it will be automatic, boom. Time is a wasting! Good providers are filling up right now. 

To find providers, go to the ODE (ohio dept of ed) website, search for Jon Peterson Scholarship, and search providers. You can limit by county, by area of service provided, etc. If someone is NOT on the provider list, they can get added. It takes a while, so it's easier to start with another provider and have the tutor you want subcontract with the provider. That's what I'm doing with an SLP I want to use until she gets set up on the scholarship.

Given the load you have going, I'm not sure I would consider it her choice on the tutor, at least not till you investigate to see if there would be someone who is a good fit. She might actually like it once she has a good fit. With SLDs, you're automatically at tier 2. Anxiety, if listed in her IEP as her disabling condition, would be tier 3. If SLDs are the disabling condition, then she'll be tier 2. 

Thank you for putting a rush on it. I didn't realized spaces filled up. I had gotten a recommendation and just called and left a message. Thank you for all your help.

[Mom28kds]

6 hours ago, shinyhappypeople said:

Learn Math Fast 

Principles of Mathematics

Have you used the Learn Math Fast? It looks intriguing

[EKS]

Math U See.  My son was in Saxon 7/6 (6th grade) when I realized that something was amiss.  He took the MUS placement test and placed into Beta (2nd grade) since he got every single subtraction problem involving borrowing wrong.  In MUS, he was able to move through material that he had already mastered quickly and then slow down for the stuff that he was iffy on.  He ended up going through Beta-Zeta in about six months.  

My point here is that MUS not only has no grade level designation, it is also easy to adjust the pacing depending upon your student's needs.  I suspect that your daughter is solid with some stuff and needing remediation on other stuff.  MUS works very well in this situation.

Edited August 2, 2019 by EKS

[EKS]

17 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I don’t have many specific suggestions for curriculum, because the resources I know best are designed for school settings, but one thing that has always been helpful me in addressing math deficits is to think about whether a kid is working at a specific lower level, or they have holes all the way throughout.

I think that often in PS end up getting some math every year, and missing some skills every year, and it adds up so that they end up with holes in the knowledge far back in the early grades, and also some skills on grade level or close to grade level.

if that’s the case, one resource I have liked is Aleks.com because it tests kids and then only introduces what’s missing.  I like the MS RTI curriculums for that purpose.  

Just to clarify--the ALEKS placement process eliminates some, but not all, topics a student has mastered.  Topics that a student already knows that haven't been eliminated (because of the way the algorithm works) require that the student get a certain number of problems correct (typically two or three) in order for the program to consider them mastered.

That said, ALEKS is a good choice for motivated teens or adults who just need a refresher or review.  IMO, the interface is not good for younger kids (unless it has changed significantly) and it is not appropriate as a primary program for anyone.

[Mom28kds]

9 minutes ago, EKS said:

Just to clarify--the ALEKS placement process eliminates some, but not all, topics a student has mastered.  Topics that a student already knows that haven't been eliminated (because of the way the algorithm works) require that the student get a certain number of problems correct (typically two or three) in order for the program to consider them mastered.

That said, ALEKS is a good choice for motivated teens or adults who just need a refresher or review.  IMO, the interface is not good for younger kids (unless it has changed significantly) and it is not appropriate as a primary program for anyone.

Thanks! I like the sounds of it covering what she needs but she specifically said she doesn't want computer course. I think because before she got moved to get more help her teacher used alot of Khan academy and she didn't do well at all with the pace the teacher was expecting. Therefore, decided she hated online. I'll do it if it's what's best though :) I'll check it out again.

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Mom28kds

[shinyhappypeople]

9 hours ago, Mom28kds said:

Have you used the Learn Math Fast? It looks intriguing

I used the first book for awhile several years ago.  It was working well... I can't remember why we stopped.  I remember it being gentle and unintimidating without being patronizing.  

Another option for arithmetic is AGS Basic Math Skills.  That one seems to take a more procedural approach.  It just depends on what's most helpful for your DD.

[EKS]

12 hours ago, Mom28kds said:

Thanks! I like the sounds of it covering what she needs but she specifically said she doesn't want computer course. I think because before she got moved to get more help her teacher used alot of Khan academy and she didn't do well at all with the pace the teacher was expecting. Therefore, decided she hated online. I'll do it if it's what's best though 🙂 I'll check it out again.

To be clear, I absolutely do not think ALEKS would be best in this situation.  

I think that you working with her through a program like MUS would probably be your best bet.  MUS is great because the way it is set up allows for moving rapidly where appropriate and slowing down and really digging into what needs shoring up.

Edited August 2, 2019 by EKS

[Storygirl]

On 8/1/2019 at 2:06 PM, Mom28kds said:

My DD is melting down as we speak. I'm pulling her out of public school after going for 2 years. She did CLE when she was homeschooled before and wanted to go back to that. She has executive functioning issues and stresses out terribly when something is hard or she doesn't understand. In having her take the placement test to see what math level to do she doesn't remember any of it. She'll be going into 8th grade and CLE says to give the 700 placement test. The thought of her going back grade levels for her is so depressing. At the public school she had no idea where she was only that she was in a room that needed extra help. Are there any Math programs that I could look up that doesn't have a grade level on it and I can place her where she needs to be without her feeling like a failure?

 

19 hours ago, Mom28kds said:

Thank you! I was just checking on the Jon Peterson yesterday. She says she doesn't want a tutor but we will see 🙂 Yes, she has an IEP but if that's all I need to get her to do then how in the world will I be able to do high school Math with her. She doesn't retain much. That's part of our struggle.

It's fine to switch to something that is not CLE.

However, if she has anxiety and is resistant and needs a lot of review and wants to use CLE, because it seems familiar and safe to her ---- I think those are points to consider. I wonder if it would help her to know that CLE covers prealgebra over two years, instead of one (which may be just what she needs!). If you tell her that they stretch what she would learn out over two years, but it is still the level of math that she would have been doing in school, would that help her? Would it help her to know that it is very common for kids to be in a level that does not match their grade? And that high school math is not named by grade -- 9th grade math, 10th, etc. -- but by topic -- algebra, geometry, etc. So that it does not matter what number is on the front of the booklet? She may not accept this explanation. However, if she wants to do CLE, you may be able to help her work her way over the hump, so that she accepts the placement without feeling behind.

DD17 was in CLE at a level that did not match her grade, for a long time, and she has gone on to do fine in high school math.

She could then do CLE at home daily to get the incremental lessons and spiral review. And work with a tutor on filling holes and solidifying the new content.

Also my son who is going into 9th grade will be doing prealgebra in 9th and then algebra in 10th in public school. It's okay. If she does CLE 700 in 8th grade and 800 in 9th, that would be putting her on a path to do CLE algebra in 10th. It's really okay to be on that schedule, and some kids in public school are on that schedule. If you can help her see that, maybe it would help?

Edited August 2, 2019 by Storygirl

[Pen]

I think MUS would probably be a good thing to try.

The Tanton materials would have a completely different approach, however, and might work for her mind.  His book 1 in gateway series is meant for high school , but reviews everything starting with addition, so you could take it really slowly along with Explode the Dots from his website and the Explode the Dots book, and she could feel she’s in a high school level book while still relearning from numbers and adding onward. 

[Mom28kds]

5 hours ago, Storygirl said:

 

It's fine to switch to something that is not CLE.

However, if she has anxiety and is resistant and needs a lot of review and wants to use CLE, because it seems familiar and safe to her ---- I think those are points to consider. I wonder if it would help her to know that CLE covers prealgebra over two years, instead of one (which may be just what she needs!). If you tell her that they stretch what she would learn out over two years, but it is still the level of math that she would have been doing in school, would that help her? Would it help her to know that it is very common for kids to be in a level that does not match their grade? And that high school math is not named by grade -- 9th grade math, 10th, etc. -- but by topic -- algebra, geometry, etc. So that it does not matter what number is on the front of the booklet? She may not accept this explanation. However, if she wants to do CLE, you may be able to help her work her way over the hump, so that she accepts the placement without feeling behind.

DD17 was in CLE at a level that did not match her grade, for a long time, and she has gone on to do fine in high school math.

She could then do CLE at home daily to get the incremental lessons and spiral review. And work with a tutor on filling holes and solidifying the new content.

Also my son who is going into 9th grade will be doing prealgebra in 9th and then algebra in 10th in public school. It's okay. If she does CLE 700 in 8th grade and 800 in 9th, that would be putting her on a path to do CLE algebra in 10th. It's really okay to be on that schedule, and some kids in public school are on that schedule. If you can help her see that, maybe it would help?

Thank you! I did explain to her how in high school things weren't divided up into grades but she would have to go back a grade or 2 in CLE. I'll still give her the choice to do that if she wants. Some things I don't give them choices but in this instance I want something that we aren't feeling defeated from the very beginning. 

[Mom28kds]

5 hours ago, Pen said:

I think MUS would probably be a good thing to try.

The Tanton materials would have a completely different approach, however, and might work for her mind.  His book 1 in gateway series is meant for high school , but reviews everything starting with addition, so you could take it really slowly along with Explode the Dots from his website and the Explode the Dots book, and she could feel she’s in a high school level book while still relearning from numbers and adding onward. 

I've never heard of Tanton materials. I'll check them out along with MUS. I've gathered with MUS that I'd need to start from the beginning and it's quite costly. I'll double check though since so many have recommended it.

[Pen]

You don’t necessarily need to start MUS at the beginning.  What can your dd do in math at this time?

[Mom28kds]

I'm not the greatest in Math and really need the answers and teachers guide especially in the upper levels so I'll need that for anything I do. I can't just wing it and make it work for her. I can do it if I have things laid out.

[Pen]

Can she add or subtract whole numbers?

[Mom28kds]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

You don’t necessarily need to start MUS at the beginning.  What can your dd do in math at this time?

After being in PS for 2 years, I'm not real sure where she is at. She couldn't really do homework so anything she did was in class. I had a handle on things when at home of course and she finished CLE 5. To be honest though, I don't know what she has remembered. I'll need to give a placement in just about anything we do.

[Mom28kds]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

Can she add or subtract whole numbers?

Yes she can add, subtract, multiply and divide but begins to stress on multi digit numbers or when things begin to get complicated with more than 1 step. That is the same at home when given more than 1 task to complete.

[Pen]

Is adding with carrying or subtracting with renaming a problem?

 

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

Is adding with carrying or subtracting with renaming a problem?

 

 

If yes, and if you decide to use MUS, I’d start at Beta.  

Skipping Primer and Alpha

Edited August 3, 2019 by Pen

[Mom28kds]

3 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

If yes, and if you decide to use MUS, I’d start at Beta.  

 

Ok thanks! I'll check on that. I just saw they have a placement test.

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Mom28kds

[Pen]

If she’s actually okay with that, then iirc Gamma is multiplication (and necessarily a review of addition in multi step problems) .    Delta is division.  Epsilon is fractions.  Zeta decimals.  I think. It’s been awhile.  Then she could have Stewardship math or Algebra depending on direction she’ll be going in.  

 

[EKS]

47 minutes ago, Mom28kds said:

Yes she can add, subtract, multiply and divide but begins to stress on multi digit numbers or when things begin to get complicated with more than 1 step. That is the same at home when given more than 1 task to complete.

She might be having trouble with place value.  This is where MUS shines.

Give her the MUS placement test and watch her while she takes it.  Even if she gets problems right, if she seems unsure or is taking forever or is getting flustered, that means you should consider those problems wrong, if that makes sense.  You want to start where she is fluent and work from there.

[Mom28kds]

44 minutes ago, EKS said:

She might be having trouble with place value.  This is where MUS shines.

Give her the MUS placement test and watch her while she takes it.  Even if she gets problems right, if she seems unsure or is taking forever or is getting flustered, that means you should consider those problems wrong, if that makes sense.  You want to start where she is fluent and work from there.

Thank you!

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Mom28kds said:

Yes she can add, subtract, multiply and divide but begins to stress on multi digit numbers or when things begin to get complicated with more than 1 step. That is the same at home when given more than 1 task to complete.

That's also your executive function piece, knowing how to break the task into steps and stay calm and solve each step. The word problem books I linked you to are particularly good on that. It's a big deal in common core, and those workbooks structure the problems and give support.

She's probably going to need some calming strategies to do her work. Body scan first, a dishpan of stress toys and fidgets, talking about the Zones of Regulation and taking a break or petting the cat if she's yellow zone. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

She might be having trouble with place value.  This is where MUS shines.

Give her the MUS placement test and watch her while she takes it.  Even if she gets problems right, if she seems unsure or is taking forever or is getting flustered, that means you should consider those problems wrong, if that makes sense.  You want to start where she is fluent and work from there.

 

I agree.  

Also, just to say, everything my son did with MUS has had excellent retention and fluency.  He found it somewhat boring, but it was really solid.

[kbutton]

16 hours ago, PeterPan said:

That's also your executive function piece, knowing how to break the task into steps and stay calm and solve each step. The word problem books I linked you to are particularly good on that. It's a big deal in common core, and those workbooks structure the problems and give support.

She's probably going to need some calming strategies to do her work. Body scan first, a dishpan of stress toys and fidgets, talking about the Zones of Regulation and taking a break or petting the cat if she's yellow zone. 

 

17 hours ago, EKS said:

She might be having trouble with place value.  This is where MUS shines.

Give her the MUS placement test and watch her while she takes it.  Even if she gets problems right, if she seems unsure or is taking forever or is getting flustered, that means you should consider those problems wrong, if that makes sense.  You want to start where she is fluent and work from there.

Does she struggle with just word problem steps or with steps for common algorithms? Executive functioning IS a really big deal for either one, but if she's struggling with the algorithms, at some point you have to figure out (probably with something like MUS, Keys to, or Math Mammoth topical) what works and what isn't, and then hand over the calculator. But you want her to know what she understands and doesn't as much as possible. Like, she needs to know when the calculator is a tool and when it's replacing confidence that she understands the concept even if the steps get mushed in her brain.

If it's steps with word problems that are the problem, then yes, the books should help. Singapore Fan Math (Process Skills in Problem-Solving) is another resource. Math Mammoth does modeling also. 

I really think the advice to watch her take the test and see the struggle in person is really good. 

It helps my son A LOT to have someone scribe for math. You might see if that helps. Sometimes taking the writing out of the process keeps it moving forward better, and the working memory gets less overloaded. That's not going to solve your problem, but it might help you take some of the guess out of pinpointing what the problems are if working memory is glitchy.