I think we may have hit a turning point yesterday

[DawnM]

Son has been saying for all of June and July that he either isn't sure he wants to go back to college in the Fall, or that he definitely isn't going back.   We looked at more inferior schools that he could do online and still finish or a gap year or finish a the CC and then decide.   

He started his group therapy about 6 weeks ago here locally.  That has helped.  And we are getting him in to see an individual therapist this week and hopefully every week until school starts again.

He was all set to do the online program and got accepted yesterday and got a call from them and he and I went online to look at everything.  Then he went to group therapy last night.  And by the time he got home he said,  "Mom, I don't think the online program feels right.   I think I should probably go back to school and make it work."

Apparently his future roommate called yesterday and he is an awesome guy who wants my son to succeed and told him he will be a support for him and is looking forward to Friday night Warhammer games with him and introducing him to his friends for more support, etc.....this guy is a grad student and older (I think over 25) and mature.  It is just who my son needs.

And his therapist and guys in his therapy group all encouraged him to give it another go.  

He said last year not having the meal plan was fine for the first half of the year but then he lost steam and motivation to cook or clean.  I told him that won't be an issue so much anymore because the Univ. has change their policy and ALL students living on campus, even in the apartments,  have to have at least a min. meal plan.  He can get one hot meal per day and either take the other half for later in the day or have a sandwich for his other meal.   That, combined with snacks is really all he needs, but he needs at least one meal with vegetables and more nutrients. I also plan to get him some kind of drink that will give him some nutrients/vitamins.

So, looks like he might be trying again in Sept.  I have to say I am so relieved.  I knew I couldn't be the one to push it or he wouldn't even consider it.  I wanted him to want it.  

I will keep you posted.

Edited July 24, 2019 by DawnM

[PeterPan]

Oh what a miracle!!! I'm so excited for him. And you know, I really love that grad student idea. I think I may actually steal that and have a chat with dd's residence system. They already give her room accommodations, but they have a different, quieter dorm they're moving grad students too. As you say, having an older student for your roommate would be a totally different experience. I REALLY like that idea.

Oh my, he didn't have a meal plan last year?? Ack. My dd will skip meals, but she needs to eat. I think he's right that that's a lot to manage when you're stressed.

Well that's about how it's rolling here too. After a lot of bumps, it's looking like my dd is gonna suck it up and get it going too. And yes, I think you're right that he had to get there for himself. 

Well good!!!

[DawnM]

18 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Oh what a miracle!!! I'm so excited for him. And you know, I really love that grad student idea. I think I may actually steal that and have a chat with dd's residence system. They already give her room accommodations, but they have a different, quieter dorm they're moving grad students too. As you say, having an older student for your roommate would be a totally different experience. I REALLY like that idea.

Oh my, he didn't have a meal plan last year?? Ack. My dd will skip meals, but she needs to eat. I think he's right that that's a lot to manage when you're stressed.

Well that's about how it's rolling here too. After a lot of bumps, it's looking like my dd is gonna suck it up and get it going too. And yes, I think you're right that he had to get there for himself. 

Well good!!!

 

Just to be clear, the grad student and my son requested each other.   They have been friends for a little over a year, although they don't see each other but a couple times a month.  But I always felt he was really good for my son.

No, no meal plan, the arrangement was that his other roommate would cook and he would clean, but that didn't work so well after first quarter but I wasn't told it wasn't working until late 3rd quarter.  OY!~

[Lecka]

Awesome!!!!!!!

[Storygirl]

What a great update!! The friend/roommate sounds perfect! Can we clone that guy?

I hope your son continues to feel confident with this choice and that his next school year goes better.

[Storygirl]

When I first saw this thread title from the LC page, it only showed the first words, so it said, "I think we may have hit a" ..... In my mind, I filled it in with options. When I clicked on it, was it going to be a roadblock or a turning point?

Turning point for the win!!! 🎉✨🎊

[DawnM]

38 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

What a great update!! The friend/roommate sounds perfect! Can we clone that guy?

I hope your son continues to feel confident with this choice and that his next school year goes better.

 

I know right?  I had wanted him to ask him to be his roommate this last year, but he waited too long and he had already committed to some other guys.

[SanDiegoMom]

On 7/24/2019 at 8:54 AM, PeterPan said:

 

Oh my, he didn't have a meal plan last year?? Ack. My dd will skip meals, but she needs to eat. I think he's right that that's a lot to manage when you're stressed.

 

My dd came home this year a nervous wreck, convinced her hair was falling out and spending most of her day in crisis mode.  Turns out she had basically dropped down to one meal a day for the last 6 weeks, and that consisted of fried tofu and curly fries.  OMG.  She's doing so much better now and has timers set for meals, now that she realizes that eating actually does, you know, matter.  🙂 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

now that she realizes that eating actually does, you know, matter.  🙂 

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that, but yeah, lol. And it's been a consolation to know other people are in the same boat, helping their fledglings get through this. I keep thinking about MGW's comment about parent's trying so hard to help their kids through and then realizing the kids are unemployable and I wonder if we're doing that. But really I don't. Her grades are fine, she's fine. Only time will tell I guess.

[DawnM]

 My son is set to go back Tuesday (start Wed) and he is now second guessing his decision.  It is too late to go anywhere else academically until January, but he is now saying he isn't sure college is for him, blah, blah, blah.

He did NOTHING over the summer.  NOTHING.  He had all these plans to get a website going to showcase his work, get a resume, maybe work some.  Nope.  He did none of it.  And he is depressed.  He did go to group and individual therapy all summer, but obviously, that can only help so much.

Back to square one.  

[PeterPan]

Did you say he was going on meds for the anxiety/depression?

[DawnM]

21 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Did you say he was going on meds for the anxiety/depression?

 

Nope.  I said he won't.  He tried it, it cause a lot of issues, he won't try another.  One and done.  Black and white.  Didn't work, done.

[DawnM]

He is on his way to school, DH is driving himl!~

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

 

Nope.  I said he won't.  He tried it, it cause a lot of issues, he won't try another.  One and done.  Black and white.  Didn't work, done.

Yeah, see that's what I'd expect with my ds. His genetics are totally different from dd's. They give these meds without running genetics, and some of the responses are pretty predictable when you see the genetics. So I don't know, with my ds' mix, what a good med would even be. 

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

He is on his way to school, DH is driving himl!~

Yay!!!!!!! I hope he settles in and has a great year! He may. I even got wild this year and bought all my dd's holiday flight tix. We usually just wait around for her to share rides, and I was like nuts, let's just do this, lol.

[DawnM]

So he is in week 6 of a 10 week quarter.  So far, so good.  Ups and downs certainly, but overall it is going ok.

We are going down every 2 weeks.  That is also helping.  It is a 4 hour drive but we go to the beach and do some fun stuff while we are there.  We were there Oct 5-6 and it was DH's birthday. We tried two new restaurants, hit the beach just a little bit, and had a good time.  We will go down again this coming weekend.  Then DH has a conference in Orlando the first week of Nov so he will stop on his way down and back to see DS and I can have a break from going down.

We hope to space it out to every 3rd weekend next quarter, but will do what it takes to make this work!

[Storygirl]

Yay!!! That's good news!

[DawnM]

14 hours ago, Storygirl said:

Yay!!! That's good news!

 

Yeah, and I have finally also been more at peace with him quitting or taking a break if he needs to.  It isn't worth the stress of me carrying way more than he does.  

[PeterPan]

My dd is doing well this semester too! She has a social structure thus semester that is higher support, kinda like your visits. Last year was a weird year for that. And the Wellbutrin is sanity nectar. 

Id keep up the frequency or alternate 2,3 so low risk. He has another year? Could do 2,3 next semester and 3,3 next year.

Edited October 15, 2019 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

48 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

Yeah, and I have finally also been more at peace with him quitting or taking a break if he needs to.  It isn't worth the stress of me carrying way more than he does.  

For my dd that piece improved with the added med. she did care but she couldn’t get there. Your balance now seems good (support plus accepting).

Edited October 15, 2019 by PeterPan

[DawnM]

And we are back to wanting to quit.  4am calls, blah, blah, blah.

We may very well just be done for a while.  This seems to be the pattern, start the quarter off strong, get 6 or 7 weeks in, and hit a downward spiral.  If he is begging to come home, we are going to let him.  If he wants to go back, he needs to initiate and ask and want it.  I am done with the cajoling and hand holding.  Too much other stuff going on.  He can come home, build his resume and portfolio, and see if he can get out in the world without the degree.

No, he is refusing to talk to his therapist.  No, he is refusing to get on campus help.  No, he isn't open to help or suggestions or discussions about medication.  

[Lecka]

I think building his resume and portfolio sounds like a good plan.  I hope he does better back home.  

[PeterPan]

12 hours ago, DawnM said:

And we are back to wanting to quit.  4am calls, blah, blah, blah.

I'm sorry. It's a sucky time of year. My dd isn't even answering phone calls. I call and call and she clicks it to refuse the call. So I assume she's stressed or this or that. She just got through midterms and is crazy, I'm sure. 

I agree you're probably pursuing the best plan. But if it's any consolation, I'm jealous that he's talking with you. At least you have that, sigh.

[DawnM]

23 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I'm sorry. It's a sucky time of year. My dd isn't even answering phone calls. I call and call and she clicks it to refuse the call. So I assume she's stressed or this or that. She just got through midterms and is crazy, I'm sure. 

I agree you're probably pursuing the best plan. But if it's any consolation, I'm jealous that he's talking with you. At least you have that, sigh.

 

Oh, I am sorry.  That is the worst.  Hugs

[DawnM]

DH is down there now, in a hotel for two nights.  We have been going down every two weeks this quarter, we try to only go twice each quarter max, but this time, it is more.  

He told DH, "I just can't wait to get to my own room, my own bed, smells and sounds of home, and never come back here."  SIGH.

[Lecka]

That is too bad!

[Serenade]

On 10/31/2019 at 11:08 AM, DawnM said:

And we are back to wanting to quit.  4am calls, blah, blah, blah.

We may very well just be done for a while.  This seems to be the pattern, start the quarter off strong, get 6 or 7 weeks in, and hit a downward spiral.  If he is begging to come home, we are going to let him.  If he wants to go back, he needs to initiate and ask and want it.  I am done with the cajoling and hand holding.  Too much other stuff going on.  He can come home, build his resume and portfolio, and see if he can get out in the world without the degree.

No, he is refusing to talk to his therapist.  No, he is refusing to get on campus help.  No, he isn't open to help or suggestions or discussions about medication.  

 

I'm sorry.  I think this is a really difficult point in the semester.  My son, who is at home and attending community college, is stressed to the max like I have never seen him before.  There is just so much work to do, and the tests all seem to happen at the same time.   And I can't help him get organized.  Well, he doesn't want my help, and I get that, but he is just having a hard time managing everything that is due.  With some classes, he has work that is due every day except Sunday, so he feels like he can never take a break and relax.  And while all my son's classes are live, in person classes, the teachers really use the online class management systems to constantly add assignments and due dates.  A syllabus given at the beginning of the semester means nothing anymore.  Anyhow, I'm just sharing because I don't know how common this is, but I can see how for anyone who struggles with the organizational aspects of college, how this can make things so much more stressful.

 

[PeterPan]

17 hours ago, Serenade said:

the teachers really use the online class management systems to constantly add assignments and due dates.

Can you talk with the disability services about this? It seems unreasonable that every class is changing that much and not following their syllabii. I can ask my dd, but I think in general in her classes the syllabii stand. But I'll ask, definitely.

[Storygirl]

I'm sorry, Dawn. Is your husband preparing to bring him home, or are you hoping his visit will help stabilize things enough that your son can stay on campus?

[PeterPan]

On 11/2/2019 at 6:38 PM, DawnM said:

He told DH, "I just can't wait to get to my own room, my own bed, smells and sounds of home, and never come back here."  SIGH.

At the workshop on anxiety I attended yesterday they talked about persistence as a skill deficit. Also the idea of tolerating discomfort. Knowing the end is coming can help. 

Its hard to watch when they’re uncomfortable and needing to persist. And they pointed out what we all know, that as anxiety goes up the brain goes more negative. So like with my dd it’s these big dramatic, inaccurate negative assertions. They said the response is disproving. That’s probably what you’re doing. 

But it’s hard to watch and know if they’re objectively safe and hacking it, yes. I’m glad your dg can go down!!

[DawnM]

On 11/3/2019 at 3:33 PM, Storygirl said:

I'm sorry, Dawn. Is your husband preparing to bring him home, or are you hoping his visit will help stabilize things enough that your son can stay on campus?

 

He only has a week and a half left, so we are hoping he can get through and do his finals.  But when he is done, he is done, so we aren't holding our breath.

[SanDiegoMom]

On 11/6/2019 at 6:54 AM, PeterPan said:

At the workshop on anxiety I attended yesterday they talked about persistence as a skill deficit. Also the idea of tolerating discomfort. Knowing the end is coming can help. 

Its hard to watch when they’re uncomfortable and needing to persist. And they pointed out what we all know, that as anxiety goes up the brain goes more negative. So like with my dd it’s these big dramatic, inaccurate negative assertions. They said the response is disproving. That’s probably what you’re doing. 

But it’s hard to watch and know if they’re objectively safe and hacking it, yes. I’m glad your dg can go down!!

I definitely need to learn more about anxiety.  It's only been a year since my dd was diagnosed with adhd, and now we are realizing she has anxiety which is sometimes just as crippling.  We just didn't know. But this is totally her-- dramatic, inaccurate negative assertions.  A perfect example was before going back to school her friend and future roommate for the year asked if she could call my dd.  My dd went into a huge anxiety spiral that she had done something wrong and her friend was mad at her.  It took her an hour before she could call, and it turned out that the FRIEND was going through a mental health crisis and wanted to let my dd she was taking the quarter off and wouldn't be there until January.  

This has happened so many times, and she's always convinced SHE is doing something wrong.  It's like it's hardwired into her. 

[DawnM]

On 11/6/2019 at 6:54 AM, PeterPan said:

At the workshop on anxiety I attended yesterday they talked about persistence as a skill deficit. Also the idea of tolerating discomfort. Knowing the end is coming can help. 

Its hard to watch when they’re uncomfortable and needing to persist. And they pointed out what we all know, that as anxiety goes up the brain goes more negative. So like with my dd it’s these big dramatic, inaccurate negative assertions. They said the response is disproving. That’s probably what you’re doing. 

But it’s hard to watch and know if they’re objectively safe and hacking it, yes. I’m glad your dg can go down!!

 

47 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

I definitely need to learn more about anxiety.  It's only been a year since my dd was diagnosed with adhd, and now we are realizing she has anxiety which is sometimes just as crippling.  We just didn't know. But this is totally her-- dramatic, inaccurate negative assertions.  A perfect example was before going back to school her friend and future roommate for the year asked if she could call my dd.  My dd went into a huge anxiety spiral that she had done something wrong and her friend was mad at her.  It took her an hour before she could call, and it turned out that the FRIEND was going through a mental health crisis and wanted to let my dd she was taking the quarter off and wouldn't be there until January.  

This has happened so many times, and she's always convinced SHE is doing something wrong.  It's like it's hardwired into her. 

 

And it does make sense.  I may have my son meet with his therapist to work on this a bit.  Because today he wants to stay.  Roller Coaster!

[PeterPan]

45 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

 

And it does make sense.  I may have my son meet with his therapist to work on this a bit.  Because today he wants to stay.  Roller Coaster!

Maybe the Minahan workbook, which has the problem solving inventories, would help you narrow it down, get it into words? But yeah, keep working on it. She acknowledged that too, that the behaviors being roller coaster and varying with environment were so telling that it was the anxiety.

[SanDiegoMom]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

 

And it does make sense.  I may have my son meet with his therapist to work on this a bit.  Because today he wants to stay.  Roller Coaster!

I am feeling like I might need therapy myself with the roller coaster of emotions -- I am grateful that my daughter calls me EVERY DAY, but that means I am literally on the roller coaster with her, and sometimes her sadness or anxiety is so overwhelming I feel it myself the rest of the day. And the next day she will call and be like HEY! What's up?? I feel great! And I feel instead like I was flattened by a steam roller.  

And the underlying issues ALWAYS seem to be resolved with more sleep. That is her main goal now -- she has always had terrible sleep and she is teaching herself how to sleep better. It's the best mood regulator.  It also helps that she has a psychiatrist, psychologist, and is taking an applied neuroscience that has the students do an intervention every week (yoga, mindfulness, meditation, improve sleep, etc).  But getting the sleep fixed seems to help the most.  She has a fitbit so she has real evidence that her sleep before was abysmal.  There will be three week chunks where she might have hit 8 hours ONCE and the rest are 5-6.  

[PeterPan]

On November 7, 2019 at 3:06 PM, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

And the underlying issues ALWAYS seem to be resolved with more sleep.

Yeah, sleep is a funny thing. I had a hard time even getting to sleep, like feeling tired, until we ran genetics, found the TPH2 defect, and started taking 5HTP. Stabilizes mood *and* helps sleep, boom, because it is a precursor for serotonin and melatonin. And it takes down methyls if they're a little bipolary. I mean, you're saying she's real up and down, so I'm just being literal here. But if she's an undermethylator (which happens), then it can tank the methyl levels unless she adds methyl donors. 

But it's worth looking into, yes, even if it sounds complicated, lol. The answer has been different for each of the three of us in our house (dd, ds, me), but it has been worth working out.

[SanDiegoMom]

On 11/9/2019 at 11:16 AM, PeterPan said:

Yeah, sleep is a funny thing. I had a hard time even getting to sleep, like feeling tired, until we ran genetics, found the TPH2 defect, and started taking 5HTP. Stabilizes mood *and* helps sleep, boom, because it is a precursor for serotonin and melatonin. And it takes down methyls if they're a little bipolary. I mean, you're saying she's real up and down, so I'm just being literal here. But if she's an undermethylator (which happens), then it can tank the methyl levels unless she adds methyl donors. 

But it's worth looking into, yes, even if it sounds complicated, lol. The answer has been different for each of the three of us in our house (dd, ds, me), but it has been worth working out.

I think this will be the next route to pursue for sure!

[kbutton]

On 11/2/2019 at 9:26 PM, Serenade said:

And while all my son's classes are live, in person classes, the teachers really use the online class management systems to constantly add assignments and due dates.  A syllabus given at the beginning of the semester means nothing anymore.  Anyhow, I'm just sharing because I don't know how common this is, but I can see how for anyone who struggles with the organizational aspects of college, how this can make things so much more stressful.

I have been really worried this would become the case as online classes become more common--I figured it would trickle down to the live classes too and require people to be plugged into their communication 24/7 to keep up. That's egregious, honestly. I think it's egregious in online classes too, but this is worse.

On 11/7/2019 at 11:56 AM, PeterPan said:

Maybe the Minahan workbook, which has the problem solving inventories, would help you narrow it down, get it into words? But yeah, keep working on it. She acknowledged that too, that the behaviors being roller coaster and varying with environment were so telling that it was the anxiety.

Link to the workbook?

[Lecka]

https://www.amazon.com/Behavior-Code-Companion-Interventions-Anxiety-Related/dp/1612507514/ref=pd_aw_fbt_14_img_2/145-8180045-9164938?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1612507514&pd_rd_r=449eafc8-70aa-4bed-8abd-5c2d22c44b04&pd_rd_w=NrtnX&pd_rd_wg=d1Wlz&pf_rd_p=6e6afc8a-fbbd-4649-97cf-4e08f5113612&pf_rd_r=Y4P67W6EJWY9MXDTPRNB&psc=1&refRID=Y4P67W6EJWY9MXDTPRNB

I assume it’s this book.  
 

I heard of her book at the end of the time I was reading books about FBAs so I never read it, but it seems like it’s one of the top recommended books now.  

[ktgrok]

On 11/9/2019 at 11:16 AM, PeterPan said:

Yeah, sleep is a funny thing. I had a hard time even getting to sleep, like feeling tired, until we ran genetics, found the TPH2 defect, and started taking 5HTP. Stabilizes mood *and* helps sleep, boom, because it is a precursor for serotonin and melatonin. And it takes down methyls if they're a little bipolary. I mean, you're saying she's real up and down, so I'm just being literal here. But if she's an undermethylator (which happens), then it can tank the methyl levels unless she adds methyl donors. 

But it's worth looking into, yes, even if it sounds complicated, lol. The answer has been different for each of the three of us in our house (dd, ds, me), but it has been worth working out.

Can you tell me what to look for on promethease or what not, to check into this? I have genetics on myself and the kids and am wondering if this might be something to try with myself and maybe my son. 

[PeterPan]

18 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Can you tell me what to look for on promethease or what not, to check into this? I have genetics on myself and the kids and am wondering if this might be something to try with myself and maybe my son. 

https://promethease.com  You upload the raw data, run the report, then you'll have a massive downloadable, searchable file. The raw data is just RS numbers and letters, but the promethease report is plain english.

https://www.knowyourgenetics.com  also run the raw data through here 

[ktgrok]

13 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

https://promethease.com  You upload the raw data, run the report, then you'll have a massive downloadable, searchable file. The raw data is just RS numbers and letters, but the promethease report is plain english.

https://www.knowyourgenetics.com  also run the raw data through here 

Oh, no, I meant I have/use promethease, was wondering which SNPs in particular you were looking at 🙂

[PeterPan]

8 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Oh, no, I meant I have/use promethease, was wondering which SNPs in particular you were looking at 🙂

If you run it through KYG, you'll get a color coded chart. Promethease, as you know, is much more open-ended. Have you looked at TPH2? I went through all the reds, then the grays. I looked for patterns. I searched by terms. I guess I'm not sure what you're asking. KYG doesn't look at TPH2, and that for us was a pretty interesting gene. But beyond that, you're starting to get into the unknown, the vastness. Like they're running FOXP2 and autism genes and all kinds of things you can see, but there's not really a lot to DO with it. I've linked in the past some RS numbers used in a chinese dyslexia study, where they had correlated RS numbers and different components of dyslexia.

When you look at the promethease data, it shows names. So I spent a lot of time looking for patterns. I don't know what you can turn up that's actionable, because I've only done it on our genes. I'm guessing there's more in there I didn't find, kwim? Like I've never studied GABA and how that is done in the body. It's just a whole area I've neglected. So for some of the things, I was googling the other direction. Like I'd google "(pick a mental health label) genes" and then work backward. Ds doesn't really fit mental health labels very well, so for me I was just broadening the net. Like if he doesn't fit the DSM criteria exactly but they know a gene is correlated with such and such and we're tripping it, let's look at that, kwim? 

So yes, you could pick a label and work backward. Dyslexia genes, bipolar genes, ODD genes, whatever you want. Even if there are no genes, lol, sometimes it's curious what shows up. And I just spent hours doing that. Try depression genes. It's pretty fascinating. Anxiety genes, psychopath genes. We're asking questions that other people are asking. Even if the answer is no, you start to notice things, like a gene being *suspected* in such and such and it actually does this other thing you know you have happening. So that's another way to see patterns. You're talking about very complex stuff in the body, where a gene might trip a protein and so it has like 3-4 consequences, systems affected. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by PeterPan