Anonymous tEA and decline of “relationships” in college issues?

[Pen]

 

Heard a radio program half on the problem of the “hook up” culture in colleges.  I’m wondering how much of a real problem this is at most colleges currently.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Pen

[Farrar]

Since sex rates are massively lower, if it's a problem, it's statistically less of one than when we were in college.

[Pen]

https://www.npr.org/series/423302056/hidden-brain

show dated June 14, 2019

(the one on pets vs pets also looks interesting)

[hippiemamato3]

A problem in what sense?

[Pen]

https://www.amazon.com/American-Hookup-New-Culture-Campus/dp/039328509X

interview was with author of the above book

[hippiemamato3]

I don't see this as being anything new at all. I think it's just hype. College students will...brew tea. I don't think it's any worse than its ever been. 

[Pen]

15 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

A problem in what sense?

 

Allegedly the culture on many campuses has turned away from relationships and romance and toward the “hook up” with negative repercussions for both participants and abstainers.  

Especially seeming bad for women, but not so great for many guys either.

 I googled and a list of the top 10 “hook up” colleges in US includes 2 major universities in my state, which may make it seem more credible to me that it is a “thing” rather than just hype.  

Edited June 18, 2019 by Pen

[Farrar]

Sexual mores are always changing. Today's young people have less sex overall. They may also be turning away from serious relationships in college. That could have good aspects (more focus on studies and career goals) and negative ones (less practice with long term commitments, less emotional connections). I'm not sold that in and of itself this is anything bad. But I also think that brewing a pot one time for fun, as long as it's consensual, is fine. I have no moral judgment of that practice at all.

Unless there's more to this... Basically, this just seems like yet another, oh no, young people do things differently thing. Meh.

[gardenmom5]

much has to do with the personality of the students.  I know my kids - they didn't "hook-up" at all.

[Farrar]

I usually like The Hidden Brain, so I was curious. The transcript is here if anyone wants to read instead of listen:
https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=731731328

She brings up some good points that I think may be of concern. In particular, she's talking about how students are having short term relationships (which includes relationships with sex and also with what you might call "making out" but without sex) without any emotional connections. And that emotional connections in that context are seen as weak, desperate, and generally wrong and undesirable.

But... I don't think in broad practice that it's that different from the past. Like, she also talks about students using alcohol to loosen up to make sex more possible and less serious. Um, that's been a thing since the first people discovered the joys of fermentation. Also, so has casual sex. And the ways in which it can be good and bad for people.

I would actually argue that this is not about students brewing tea at all. It's more about broad trends in how we interact with each other - and that includes people of a lot of generations.

[Corraleno]

I read the transcript, and my impression is that this author is trying to sell books by repackaging and relabeling something that has existed for decades as if it's (1) a new phenomenon and (2) a huge problem. The actual facts that she cites do not line up with the claim that hook-up culture is rampant on college campuses and causing serious problems. In addition to the fact that students are actually having less sex than they were a few decades ago, the author admits that fully one-third of students never hook up at all in four years of college, and the percentage of students who are really into hooking up is a mere 15%. And it will come as a surprise to exactly no one that the majority of those 15-percenters are white males who are "conventionally attractive" and "upper-middle-class or wealthy." So... frat boys with fancy cars get laid a lot in college? This is news?

Also, the fact that the following quote was provided as evidence of hook-up culture is pretty absurd, since it sounds exactly like every guy who ever whined about being "friendzoned" since time immemorial. The fact that this guy thinks there must be something terribly wrong with the culture if a girl he wants to have sex with doesn't want to have sex with him, even though she says she likes him, is an illustration of male entitlement, not proof of the dangers of hooking up.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #16: We really liked each other, but she would not have sex with me. But I also knew that she was hooking up with someone. And this was such a confusing concept, which is that people will have sex with people that they don't like but won't have sex with people that they do like.

 🙄

[Chris in VA]

I will say one thing that is very different-zConsent is drilled into the freshman, so much so that kids have sex THEN go drinking, just so consent is real. 

[Carrie12345]

20 minutes ago, Chris in VA said:

I will say one thing that is very different-zConsent is drilled into the freshman, so much so that kids have sex THEN go drinking, just so consent is real. 

It’s been over 20 years since I was in college, and defining consent is really the only difference I can see.  Well, that, and more LGBTQ openness.  There was a lot of sex going on in 1995, and a lot of alcohol.  And no real discussion as to what enthusiastic consent might look like.

I would consider unplanned pregnancies and STDs - sorry, STIs; I’m old - to be problems, but aren’t they statistically down?

Emotionally, of course casual sex isn’t right for all people at all (or any) ages, so people who don’t want that should refrain from it.  Going against one’s own values is going to be problematic. But blaming others for that feeling would be irrational.

[Farrar]

Yeah, the teens I know all seem to have already had consent drilled into them, including enthusiastic consent. When they get to college in a couple of years, I'm sure they'll get it again. One of the points she's making in this seems to be something we've discussed here, which is basically that enthusiastic consent isn't some magic way to make sex good or satisfying or even psychologically and socially healthy. Like, lots of people are still brewing some weak tea. But that also just seems like... well, duh. That's what college tea is like sometimes. And adult tea. There aren't rules that are going to make it magically great.

[ktgrok]

I agree that the sex part is silly....sex among twenty something year old people is not new. That rich, white, attractive twenty something year old men are having it a lot, also not new. 

What is maybe a bigger issue to look at is that people are postponing romantic relationships in general - is it due to finances? Other issues? Is it healthy? Have we stressed financial stability to a point that people are afraid to be in a romantic relationship without a 2 bedroom house downpayment first? Or is it the other way, that young people are financially strapped and therefore have other priorities than romance (maslow's hierarchy of needs) or is it something else? Or is the lack of romantic attachment actually the normal state of being, and previously people were pushed into relationships out of societal and family pressure to settle down? Those are the interesting questions to me, not "are young adults horny".

[TravelingChris]

At least at the college my daughter attended, the group of friends and closer acquaintances she had, weren't into hook=up sex.  And yes, consent was and is a really big deal.  But I didn't think there was anything all that different going on than was going on when I was in college.  My daughter was telling me about some frat guys who had lists of conquests.  I told her that in my dorm house, there was a girl who was doing the same.  Now my dd and her friends did not hang out at the frat houses- they were more into things like video games, theater and singing, etc, etc.  So no, some people do hook up and some don't.  None of my kids not my dh nor I have those kinds of personalities.

[Pen]

4 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I agree that the sex part is silly....sex among twenty something year old people is not new. That rich, white, attractive twenty something year old men are having it a lot, also not new. 

What is maybe a bigger issue to look at is that people are postponing romantic relationships in general - is it due to finances? Other issues? Is it healthy? Have we stressed financial stability to a point that people are afraid to be in a romantic relationship without a 2 bedroom house downpayment first? Or is it the other way, that young people are financially strapped and therefore have other priorities than romance (maslow's hierarchy of needs) or is it something else? Or is the lack of romantic attachment actually the normal state of being, and previously people were pushed into relationships out of societal and family pressure to settle down? Those are the interesting questions to me, not "are young adults horny".

 

I agree with that. I did not mean to give a “young adults are horny” meaning. Probably a better thread title is needed.

 I have had some irl indication of something different, more of a frequent anonymous sex in college phenomena...  nearish  city, one of the university s mentioned as a “big hook up “ school ...  heading into something more akin to the pre AIDS era atmosphere in parts of NYC gay community   

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I agree with that. I did not mean to give a “young adults are horny” meaning. Probably a better thread title is needed.

 I have had some irl indication of something different, more of a frequent anonymous sex in college phenomena...  nearish  city, one of the university s mentioned as a “big hook up “ school ...  heading into something more akin to the pre AIDS era atmosphere in parts of NYC gay community   

But the thing is, they are having less sex than before. So they had sex before, but in relationships. they have sex now, but not in relationships. What changed isn't the sex, what changed is the relationships, or lack of them. That is what the focus should be on, why are people not in relationships, and what does it mean. The sex part is the constant. 

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

But the thing is, they are having less sex than before. So they had sex before, but in relationships. they have sex now, but not in relationships. What changed isn't the sex, what changed is the relationships, or lack of them. That is what the focus should be on, why are people not in relationships, and what does it mean. The sex part is the constant. 

 

Right.  I’ll try to revise title. 

[Pen]

Maybe it is similar to online community and communications in place of irl , face to face, communication, friendship, relationships...

[Farrar]

8 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I agree that the sex part is silly....sex among twenty something year old people is not new. That rich, white, attractive twenty something year old men are having it a lot, also not new. 

What is maybe a bigger issue to look at is that people are postponing romantic relationships in general - is it due to finances? Other issues? Is it healthy? Have we stressed financial stability to a point that people are afraid to be in a romantic relationship without a 2 bedroom house downpayment first? Or is it the other way, that young people are financially strapped and therefore have other priorities than romance (maslow's hierarchy of needs) or is it something else? Or is the lack of romantic attachment actually the normal state of being, and previously people were pushed into relationships out of societal and family pressure to settle down? Those are the interesting questions to me, not "are young adults horny".

The postponing relationships thing is interesting. Like, I feel like a number families I've known have outlawed any dating before age 18 and strongly discouraged it afterward. Like, on this board sometimes, people post that they don't like that their college age kids are in relationships and that they would like to discourage them. And, yeah, usually there's a reason (bad partner, bad situation, etc.) but often there's also an undercurrent of "college relationships are too young," or "college relationships will distract my kid from their very important goals," or even, "not while my young adult is under my roof!" Okay... but then we look at this and it's like, ooh, what's wrong with youth today? Why aren't they having relationships? Why are they waiting too long to start having kids? Why aren't they getting married? Um... some of this seems to me like it's parenting that's changing the timeline!