Our 20 y.o. dd came out to me on Saturday.....

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Sometimes they do, and sometimes they really, really struggle. The homelessness stats for LGBTQ youth are not encouraging.

 

Scarlett, seriously, if you want people to tell you things then you have got to be willing to keep their confidences. Otherwise you will rapidly find that people have learned not to let you in on anything.

I do fine at keeping confidences.  Some things I would not keep from my husband.  Especially if he was the father of the child in question.

[bolt.]

Living with parents while one of them fundamental rejects ‘you’ and treats ‘you’ in a cold / harsh / dismissive manner can be psychologically unbearable.

A father doesn’t need to ‘kick her out’ in order to make her homeless. What he is doing is the emotional equivalent of sabotaging an adult child’s bedroom while claiming they can go on living at home ‘if they want’. Ignoring the emotional content of the home is every bit as difficult as ignoring someone messing with your space and belongings. Unless he gets his poop together, his claim to ‘not kick her out’ while making home life intolerable is patently false. 

As a mom, I’d be getting ready to ask *him* to step away from the family home. Lots of time, and as much slack as possible... but I’d know exactly where and how I would ‘draw the line’ if it became necessary.

Edited November 5, 2018 by bolt.

[Tanaqui]

Sounds like you and I have a different idea of what constitutes "fine", Scarlett.

[BeachGal]

A lot of families initially find themselves in similar situations to the OP's when a child comes out. My son's boyfriend is from a conservative Mexican family and his parents asked that he not let his younger siblings know that he is gay until they are older. So my son is invited to family events and whatnot but for now he is his friend. Some families go to Pflag meetings. We didn't but it is there.

I do think young gay men and women need good guidance and education when it comes to staying healthy. For our son it's meant learning thoroughly about HPV, HIV and meningitis prevention. What can be done to maintain good mental health, too. My son's doctor is gay himself and has been truly wonderful.

[QueenCat]

19 hours ago, laundrycrisis said:

 

IMO what you are supposed to do is be an example of loving kindness and higher moral behavior for your husband to learn from.   Make up your mind not to give any room to anyone who is going to shame her for being gay.  I would walk away from the church in a heartbeat and never look back if they are anything other that 100% accepting.  He could make his choice to follow me out or not. 

 

Yes, this... It is never moral to not show love and kindness to one's child for being who they "are." Never. 

[QueenCat]

18 hours ago, Farrar said:

OP, lots of LGBTQ youth end up homeless and are at risk for exploitation because they're kicked out or driven out of their homes, often as students. I think the best thing you can do with your dd right now is make a plan to ensure that she has somewhere to go if it gets really bad at home. Somewhere safe. And that she's preparing herself for financial independence, perhaps ahead of the schedule you had originally intended. And this is an act of love for her. And hopefully an act that can preserve your loving relationship with her and maybe do that miracle and allow your dh to have a relationship with her one day as well. Because if home becomes an unsafe place for her, then there's even less of a chance that the relationship can be salvaged one day.

4

 

This is so important. The OP's daughter needs a safe place to go if her father continues in his current behavior of not talking to her or worse. Safety isn't just about the physical, it's about the mental. 

[Farrar]

22 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Living with parents while one of them fundamental rejects ‘you’ and treats ‘you’ in a cold / harsh / dismissive manner can be psychologically unbearable.

A father doesn’t need to ‘kick her out’ in order to make her homeless. What he is doing is the emotional equivalent of sabotaging an adult child’s bedroom while claiming they can go on living at home ‘if they want’. Ignoring the emotional content of the home is every bit as difficult as ignoring someone messing with your space and belongings. Unless he gets his poop together, his claim to ‘not kick her out’ while making home life intolerable is patently false. 

As a mom, I’d be getting ready to ask *him* to step away from the family home. Lots of time, and as much slack as possible... but I’d know exactly where and how I would ‘draw the line’ if it became necessary.

I would also kick dh out before I'd let my kid leave because they felt psychologically unsafe. I think a lot of us would. I also think it's quite possible that she'll leave if he continues on the trajectory that he's on, even if he doesn't physically remove her from the house (though I think it sounds like that's possible as well if she doesn't change to do what he wants when he finally confronts her). And I think she would be right to do so. I'm trying to be realistic. If the OP isn't going to part ways with her spouse (and I think she's probably distraught and not sure what she's going to do), then helping her dd have a moving out plan and be ready for financial security is pretty imperative.

A 20 yo is an adult. But nowadays, the vast majority of 20 yos are financially dependant in some measure on their parents. Assuming the OP isn't going to part ways with her husband to protect her child, if she has to leave suddenly (and not just because of being physically kicked out), then short of kicking him out, helping her prepare for that is the greatest act of support and love that I think her mother could engage in right now.

[Scarlett]

27 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Sounds like you and I have a different idea of what constitutes "fine", Scarlett.

More likely we just have entirely different lives.  I am constantly astounded by the number of people who confide in me.  So no I don't think I am an untrustworthy person.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

 

All of this.

I don’t expect anyone to suddenly change their deeply held moral and religious views overnight.  She knows her parents believe being gay is a sin.  She also knows they aren’t going to be accepting, especially dad; otherwise it wouldn’t have taken six years to work up the courage to tell them.  I don’t think dad is going to stop thinking it’s a sin anytime soon.

But being gay isn’t the only sin in the world in this religious context.  Being unloving and inflicting mental cruelty on another person(this ignoring is exactly that) is also a sin. And it’s a sin Jesus actually spoke against many times in the Gospels.  He never once said a word about homosexuality. (And how did He treat those found in sexual sin? With love and kindness. Repeatedly.)

It has been a week people.  Seriously, sometimes silence is the best option in emotionally charged situations.  

[scholastica]

1 minute ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

 

All of this.

I don’t expect anyone to suddenly change their deeply held moral and religious views overnight.  She knows her parents believe being gay is a sin.  She also knows they aren’t going to be accepting, especially dad; otherwise it wouldn’t have taken six years to work up the courage to tell them.  I don’t think dad is going to stop thinking it’s a sin anytime soon.

But being gay isn’t the only sin in the world in this religious context.  Being unloving and inflicting mental cruelty on another person(this ignoring is exactly that) is also a sin. And it’s a sin Jesus actually spoke against many times in the Gospels.  He never once said a word about homosexuality. (And how did He treat those found in sexual sin? With love and kindness. Repeatedly.)

Yes, he treated them with kindness and also told them not to sin anymore. 

[goldberry]

Honestly I don't think dad is doing too bad right now. He's not being mean to her, or harsh to her, or kicking her out. Of course he needs some time to process! If he continues not speaking to her at all, then that might be different. But for right now, he is processing what is obviously a huge deal to him. He deserves a little room to do that.

[TCB]

48 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Living with parents while one of them fundamental rejects ‘you’ and treats ‘you’ in a cold / harsh / dismissive manner can be psychologically unbearable.

A father doesn’t need to ‘kick her out’ in order to make her homeless. What he is doing is the emotional equivalent of sabotaging an adult child’s bedroom while claiming they can go on living at home ‘if they want’. Ignoring the emotional content of the home is every bit as difficult as ignoring someone messing with your space and belongings. Unless he gets his poop together, his claim to ‘not kick her out’ while making home life intolerable is patently false. 

As a mom, I’d be getting ready to ask *him* to step away from the family home. Lots of time, and as much slack as possible... but I’d know exactly where and how I would ‘draw the line’ if it became necessary.

I'm very protective of my children and they are the most important thing to me. However, I think some of this advice is jumping the gun a bit. I can understand someone taking a while - has it even been a week yet? - to be shell shocked and not know how to react. It seems like some of you are over-interpreting his behavior in a really negative way. You may not understand his behavior  but you seem to be just about as harsh in your judgment of him as you think he is being to his daughter. I honestly don't know completely what I would do in this situation but I think the OP is doing well in what is obviously a very difficult situation for her. I get the feeling from some on this thread that they are really not able to put themselves in the position of someone who thinks differently from them. Try thinking about something that would shell shock you and then imagine your child saying it to you and think about how you'd react. 

[TCB]

31 minutes ago, Farrar said:

 I also think it's quite possible that she'll leave if he continues on the trajectory that he's on, even if he doesn't physically remove her from the house (though I think it sounds like that's possible as well if she doesn't change to do what he wants when he finally confronts her). 

?? Where do you get this from? I thought it was stated that he said he was not going to be thrown out. 

[Scarlett]

34 minutes ago, TCB said:

?? Where do you get this from? I thought it was stated that he said he was not going to be thrown out. 

That is what the OP said.  He wasn't going to throw her out.

[Farrar]

45 minutes ago, TCB said:

?? Where do you get this from? I thought it was stated that he said he was not going to be thrown out. 

I think if he continues treating her like this, it could easily be unbearable for her psychological health to stay. I also think that everything the OP is describing indicates that when he confronts her that if she doesn't capitulate and do what he wants... which could easily be something like conversion therapy, which is proven to be deeply damaging to LGBTQ people... then at that point he may change his view about allowing her to live at home. He may see it as "supporting her lifestyle."

Look, I hope this is worked out. But it is not crazy for her to make an exit plan. It protects the daughter. It potentially protects the OP's long term relationship with her dd. Heck, if the dd wants to have a relationship with her father one day, enduring less of the silent treatment and whatever his talking to her under these circumstances looks like is probably better for both of them.

Again, making plans doesn't bring on a crisis. It protects people. It's great when you don't have to use a bad things may happen plan. But you have one.

 

[Farrar]

4 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

That's not quite how it went. 

An adult angrily disclosed to her mom. This was not a 'Mom, I have something I want to share with you, but only if you feel able to keep it to yourself' scenario.

Mom was the unwilling recipient of a secret. She did not consent to secret keeping.

Mom is within her rights to say, having been put in that position,  'I don't feel I can keep this a secret'. 

Mom told dd that she needed to tell her dh. Adult dd said 'OK, but you have to do it, I'm not telling him.' (paraphrase)

Dh has already said he does not plan to kick out adult dd.

LGBTQ people are not obliged to come out the way you want them to in order for you not to out them, regardless of age.

I get why the OP told. I'm not going to pile on about it. I've tried to be respectful to the OP's beliefs. I sincerely believe that the best thing she can do for herself and her family right now is seek out an LGBTQ friendly church, of which there are many these days. But it has potentially made her kid unsafe. I'm sorry, but just because a spouse says they're not going to kick a kid out - if they're refusing to talk to them while they're in the same room and talking about how they refuse to accept this... I would not trust that that's necessarily going to hold long term. Especially for an adult child.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

I think if he continues treating her like this, it could easily be unbearable for her psychological health to stay. I also think that everything the OP is describing indicates that when he confronts her that if she doesn't capitulate and do what he wants... which could easily be something like conversion therapy, which is proven to be deeply damaging to LGBTQ people... then at that point he may change his view about allowing her to live at home. He may see it as "supporting her lifestyle."

Look, I hope this is worked out. But it is not crazy for her to make an exit plan. It protects the daughter. It potentially protects the OP's long term relationship with her dd. Heck, if the dd wants to have a relationship with her father one day, enduring less of the silent treatment and whatever his talking to her under these circumstances looks like is probably better for both of them.

Again, making plans doesn't bring on a crisis. It protects people. It's great when you don't have to use a bad things may happen plan. But you have one.

 

She very much should be making an exit plan.  Otherwise known as becoming self sufficient.  I would not dream of expecting to continue living in my parents home as an adult after such an announcement. 

[Farrar]

Just now, Scarlett said:

She very much should be making an exit plan.  Otherwise known as becoming self sufficient.  I would not dream of expecting to continue living in my parents home as an adult after such an announcement. 

Many young adults do. And are reliant on their parents for insurance, and "little things" like cell phone and car insurance and... so forth, not to mention tuition. I certainly intend to do these  things for my kids well into their 20's. My parents did them for me into my early 20's. And then were generous about giving dh and I "starter" money in the form of checks at holidays. Things like that make a big difference in the long term financial security of people. It's part of why the middle class is self-perpetuating and the working class isn't.

But, just realistically, I agree. When you have this big a difference of worldview as your parents, then you sadly can't count on them for those things. And if the mom knows or accepts that this may happen, walking her dd through making a plan for if/when it does is a loving act that she can do.

[goldberry]

The original plan was for her to live at home until she finished her masters, which I'm reading would be another two years. That may or may not work in the current situation. It doesn't have to be a matter of "kicking her out" or her feeling so emotionally abused she has to flee.  It's possible they eventually decide as a family that she should work on finding her own place.  But as Stella mentioned, there is no point rushing or jumping ahead.  Let everyone process for a bit and see what happens. Daughter may even be the one who wants out, regardless of what the dad says.  Who knows?  She may want the freedom to pursue her choices without anyone looking over her shoulder.  There's a reason most adult children are ready to move out and onward. 

[bolt.]

3 hours ago, TCB said:

I'm very protective of my children and they are the most important thing to me. However, I think some of this advice is jumping the gun a bit. I can understand someone taking a while - has it even been a week yet? - to be shell shocked and not know how to react. It seems like some of you are over-interpreting his behavior in a really negative way. You may not understand his behavior  but you seem to be just about as harsh in your judgment of him as you think he is being to his daughter. I honestly don't know completely what I would do in this situation but I think the OP is doing well in what is obviously a very difficult situation for her. I get the feeling from some on this thread that they are really not able to put themselves in the position of someone who thinks differently from them. Try thinking about something that would shell shock you and then imagine your child saying it to you and think about how you'd react. 

I think you are reading me with an emphasis that I didn’t intend.

What I said was that there should be “plenty of time” and “as much grace as possible” given to the dad as he processes this. That’s conpletely in agreement with your idea that he is shell-shocked and is perfectly expected to take a while longer to get himself together.

I feel that I can understand his feelings and behaviour. I don’t know where he would land. That’s why I would be working on what I would plan to do in various hypothetical futures. Since I would need a while to even begin to think of when and how (and whether) to ask a husband to temporarily step away... I would be thinking through what that would look like. I would be asking myself where my “line” is, and I would feel unsettled until I picked one. Therefore I would be picking one.

I don’t see where I am judging harshly. I think. In general, I just hope he settles into some kinder behaviour within a reasonable amount of time... I don’t think that’s harsh? It’s what I hope for all blindsided parents in the same circumstances. In fact, I’m kind of grateful that he has given me the opportunity to think through this (and my own potential reaction) in the abstract — In case I ever have to make wise choices in my own reality. It’s good for me.

But it might be harsh, too, I guess — but if I am on the harsh side, I think that’s maybe okay? This man’s psychological well-being does not depend on how well-accepted his actions are on the internet. I don’t owe him a duty of care. My disapproval won’t crush his soul and make him wonder if he is worthy of love and belonging — because I’m not his parent. How your parents judge you is foundational to some serious stuff. (That’s why how he treats her in their shared home is much more important than the ways I muse about him on the internet.)

[Ravin]

2 minutes ago, texasmom33 said:

I'm kind of shocked at how many people are on board with one spouse keeping a secret from another. I mean the relationship between the father and the dd aren't the only one's in question here. It's her SPOUSE. Your kids don't get to dictate what you do and don't share with your spouse. What sort of relationship would that be? I don't get all of the pitting the wife against the husband that is going on here. 

I think Patty Joanna's advice and StellaM's are about as spot on as you can get. Give it time. The daughter has had years to come to grips with this. The parents have had days. 

 

You have a point there, and I don't think anyone so much objected to the OP telling her husband, as the OP telling her husband behind her daughter's back. Which she did not do. Her DD is bound to know enough about her parents to know whether it is reasonable to tell her mother something and expect her to not tell her father. It sounds like she told the parent she felt it would be easier to break the news to, and then was able to avoid a direct confrontation with her father by letting the OP tell him. 

 

[TCB]

1 hour ago, bolt. said:

I think you are reading me with an emphasis that I didn’t intend.

What I said was that there should be “plenty of time” and “as much grace as possible” given to the dad as he processes this. That’s conpletely in agreement with your idea that he is shell-shocked and is perfectly expected to take a while longer to get himself together.

I feel that I can understand his feelings and behaviour. I don’t know where he would land. That’s why I would be working on what I would plan to do in various hypothetical futures. Since I would need a while to even begin to think of when and how (and whether) to ask a husband to temporarily step away... I would be thinking through what that would look like. I would be asking myself where my “line” is, and I would feel unsettled until I picked one. Therefore I would be picking one.

I don’t see where I am judging harshly. I think. In general, I just hope he settles into some kinder behaviour within a reasonable amount of time... I don’t think that’s harsh? It’s what I hope for all blindsided parents in the same circumstances. In fact, I’m kind of grateful that he has given me the opportunity to think through this (and my own potential reaction) in the abstract — In case I ever have to make wise choices in my own reality. It’s good for me.

But it might be harsh, too, I guess — but if I am on the harsh side, I think that’s maybe okay? This man’s psychological well-being does not depend on how well-accepted his actions are on the internet. I don’t owe him a duty of care. My disapproval won’t crush his soul and make him wonder if he is worthy of love and belonging — because I’m not his parent. How your parents judge you is foundational to some serious stuff. (That’s why how he treats her in their shared home is much more important than the ways I muse about him on the internet.)

Sorry I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been. I quoted you but I wasn't necessarily referring to you when I mentioned harshness. I really was thinking more about your thoughts on asking the dad to move out when I quoted you,  and thought  that it was jumping the gun a bit. I did feel that some were being unnecessarily harsh towards him on the thread.

[Farrar]

3 hours ago, texasmom33 said:

I'm kind of shocked at how many people are on board with one spouse keeping a secret from another. I mean the relationship between the father and the dd aren't the only one's in question here. It's her SPOUSE. Your kids don't get to dictate what you do and don't share with your spouse. What sort of relationship would that be? I don't get all of the pitting the wife against the husband that is going on here. 

I think Patty Joanna's advice and StellaM's are about as spot on as you can get. Give it time. The daughter has had years to come to grips with this. The parents have had days. 

If my kid shared something with me that would cause them to be in danger if my spouse knew it, you bet I'd keep it a secret. No regrets.

I do get why the OP told her spouse though. She made it clear to the dd she was going to and the dd acquiesced. I don't think it was the best decision for the dd... but this is just a cruddy situation all the way around for all of them. I think they're all in pain and hurting. And I hope they can take a breath and things will be okay, as calm voices are urging. I mean, that would be great if it works. I just also think the dd needs to protect herself. This is the sort of situation that puts young adults on the street more often than many realize - either because they leave without adequate resources because they're under duress or because they're forced out.