s/o cabinets- How to paint terrible, horrible, no-good very bad cabinets

[Mergath]

Since we're talking about cabinets, I thought I'd see if anyone who knows more about this stuff than me has any ideas.

Our kitchen cabinets are really old. Like, sixties old. We can't rip them out and put in new ones because we rent, but we can paint them or do whatever else we want. 

Before we moved in, the LL had someone paint them. They were coated in a shiny varnish, and the person painted over them with cheap paint and no primer. As you can probably guess, I have bits of paint falling off the cabinets everywhere. I can't even clean them without the paint coming off. It's terrible.

I was going to just sand them all and repaint properly, but we did a lead test and the varnish contains lead. ? The baby and I were both tested and were negative for lead, so it isn't dangerous in any way as long as they remain intact (we've lived here for three years now, so I've had plenty of exposure) but that also means I can't sand them at all. Like, not even enough to get the paint off. 

So I'm stuck with these hideous cabinets with paint falling off, with shiny varnish under that, that I can't sand or strip or anything. I need to do something to make them look better because they're driving me nuts. Dh is worried that if we prime/paint them, it will just fall off because the varnish is so shiny.

Any ideas? Has anyone painted over varnished cabinets before and had the paint not chip off right away? I don't care if whatever I have to do is a ridiculous amount of work. I'm just sick of looking at them the way they are now. I've seen primer that's supposed to be for covering peeling paint, but I don't know if that would work with the varnish underneath.

[kbutton]

I have had doors/baseboards that were varnished and then painted before we moved in. They do peel, but they take some time and wear and tear first. You will probably have to touch them up pretty frequently if you want them to be perfect. If you are fine with "better" and reasonable, I think you can paint them and be fine. I do not have experience with any special primers for such a situation, but it's probably worth a try. 

Did you talk to someone at a paint store (or at the paint desk at Lowe's, etc?)? They might have some really good tips. I would try a box store first and hope someone knowledgeable is in that day. I have moderate tolerance for pricey paint, so I try to avoid the actual paint stores, lol! 

 

[Katy]

Well the first thing I would do is inform the landlord.  You might need to research local laws and make sure that you're allowed to do ANYTHING.  I think in most places my family has had anything to do with rental properties, the landlord would have to have professional lead abatement when it comes to this sort of hazard, especially when there are kids in the home.

Having said that, if it were my own home I'd wait until I was no longer pregnant and take the kids to a hotel or Grandma's house. Then I'd take the cabinet doors off and take them outside, line the ground with plastic, and coat them with citristrip (the orange kind of nontoxic stripper without bad fumes), and scrape them off, then put on a respirator and sand the rest.  Inside I would coat the floor in thick plastic painter's tarp, coat the frames with citristrip, scrape them off, and then sand them WITH THE DOORS AND WINDOWS AND VENTS TAPED OFF - think duct tape over the seams, so the dust wasn't everywhere. Then VERY CAREFULLY wrap up all the paint gunk inside the plastic, double bag it, and throw it out.  In my location this is legal for owner-occupied homeowners.  I don't think it's legal for landlords. I think for real estate purposes it has to be taken to the hazardous waste site. Then I would vacuum every surface I could using a vacuum with closed bags and a HEPA filter. Then dust with tack cloth, then mop.  Then I would run a HEPA filter air cleaner for three days and repeat the cleaning process. Then I would swab surfaces in the kitchen for lead residue before I allowed kids back in the house.  I might swab the rooms around the home too, just to make sure the dust didn't escape.

ETA:  Sorry, after that long process I would then get very good primer, water-based cabinet enamel from a decent brand (sherwin williams or benjamin moore only), and whatever sort of sealer they recommend for cabinets that goes with that color (sometimes the best poly is yellowing, which won't work for pale colors).  Having said all that, the cost of remediation or all that paint might be significantly more than building new cabinets, Ana White style, if you have the tools to do so, or just buying new IKEA cabinets, which is the cheapest medium quality option.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Katy

[BeachGal]

i Used SmartStrip all over my current house. All doors, some trim and parts of bathrooms. Worked great.

Start with one door to get familiar with the process. First, using one of those cheapo wooden paint brushes, maybe 2”, slather on about 1/4” of the SmartStrip. It’s very thick and doesn’t run easily.Second, cover the door with a thickish plastic bag. This prevents it from evaporating. Wait about 24 hours. Peel off the bag and paint. Scrape off paint with a flat edged scraper. Scrub residue off with a wet scrubby sponge. Let dry for a few days.

Then when you sand, spray the cupboards and use a wet sanding sponge. You don’t want dust in the air because it will have lead. Dry cabinet, clean floor really well using a lot of paper towels so baby doesn’t get any dust or particles. Outside like Katy suggests is good, too.

[Mergath]

5 hours ago, Katy said:

Well the first thing I would do is inform the landlord.  You might need to research local laws and make sure that you're allowed to do ANYTHING.  I think in most places my family has had anything to do with rental properties, the landlord would have to have professional lead abatement when it comes to this sort of hazard, especially when there are kids in the home.

 

You have to have professional lead abatement to remove the lead, but if I end up just painting over it, that's fine. It's actually what they recommend for lead paint that's in fairly good condition- it's safer to paint over it than to try to remove it. 

I don't know if I could handle stripping or sanding them, though. With my (actual diagnosed, not the "I'm organized" kind) OCD, I'd be freaking out about lead exposure for months. The way we found out about the leaded varnish originally was that I tested one of the doors before and after I sanded it out on the deck, and it came up positive. I didn't get a positive result before I sanded, though. Only after. And I was hyperventilating and losing my mind thinking I'd poisoned us all, even though I only did one door outside with a mask on and changed my clothes after.

Apparently a ton of pre-1978 varnish and stain contains lead, not just paint. It's kind of horrifying when you think about all the people who are sanding vintage furniture because of Pinterest and exposing themselves to lead dust, or redoing old floors, or whatever.

[laundrycrisis]

You may be able to use Klean Strip to prep them for painting.  Also I am in the process of painting ours, and I ended up using Rustoleum Chalked gray paint as a primer.  Not cheap, but a great primer. It is easy to apply, sticks, covers, and is matte for the top color latex cabinet paint to stick to, and a good base color for the latex gray/taupe I chose.  It also builds up a nice texture on the laminate end panels that had zero texture - now they look like there is wood under the paint. I’m using cheap natural bristle chip brushes that I keep damp with a little water and then blot on a rag before adding a little paint to the ends of the bristles, and adding thin layers slowly. They latex is going on nicely over the primer. 

Also the chalked paint dries faster than the primers I have used in the past. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by laundrycrisis

[itsheresomewhere]

Zinsser bullseye primer is what will work great.  It will take about 2 coats and give it a day or two between coats to dry.  This stuff is great and covered our ugly heavily,  varnished paneling so well.  

[Pawz4me]

I'd try a good oil based primer and do multiple coats. I think Kilz is what I've used before. I needed to use it inside (on our stairs) and wanted low/no odor. An oil based primer will cover much better than a water based one, and you can still use any type of paint over it.

[JIN MOUSA]

I wonder if something like a deglosser over the varnish plus something like gripper primer (I think that's the name of the product, from Sherwin Williams) would be enough for new paint to mostly stick on the cabinets? It might be worth going into a specialty paint store and talking to them about it?

However, I would think for something like that to work, you would definitely have to remove all of the existing flaking paint. Obviously that layer doesn't have good adhesion with the varnish, and putting anything on top of the flaking paint isn't going to address the problem between the varnish and flaking paint. 

edit: I just looked it up and the Gripper Primer is from Glidden, not Sherwin-Williams, so probably more reasonably priced ...

Edited August 14, 2018 by JIN MOUSA

[laundrycrisis]

2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I'd try a good oil based primer and do multiple coats. I think Kilz is what I've used before. I needed to use it inside (on our stairs) and wanted low/no odor. An oil based primer will cover much better than a water based one, and you can still use any type of paint over it.

 

Kilz original is IMO very fumey. Ventilation matters if you use an oil primer. 

[Kanin]

Could you just take off the doors altogether?

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, laundrycrisis said:

 

Kilz original is IMO very fumey. Ventilation matters if you use an oil primer. 

There's an odorless version. It's not totally odorless, but I did three coats of it on the risers on our stairs during the winter (no windows open), which took a couple of days. We didn't find the odor bad at all. To us the odor was barely noticeable.

[Katy]

The thing is, if it's chipping and peeling off there is no way to safely encapsulate it.  It has to be in good condition meaning not chipping or peeling.

[Mergath]

27 minutes ago, Katy said:

The thing is, if it's chipping and peeling off there is no way to safely encapsulate it.  It has to be in good condition meaning not chipping or peeling.

 

It's the varnish that's lead-based, thankfully, not the paint. The paint is only a few years old and doesn't have lead in it, and that's what's falling off. The varnish under the paint is rock hard and not going anywhere. 

[Mergath]

1 hour ago, Mainer said:

Could you just take off the doors altogether?

 

I wish I could! I suppose I could do that with the top doors, but I need the lower cabinet doors because I have an eleven month old baby. I can barely keep her out of the cabinets even with doors and babyproofing, lol.

[Katy]

Did they put a primer on under the paint?

ETA:  You know what?  It doesn't even matter.  There's no way to get the paint off the top without disturbing the lead.  So there is no safe way for you to do this yourself, especially with OCD. There's physical and mental health dangers here. I'd ask the landlord to deal, even if I had to complain to the city, or I'd start looking for a new rental. This isn't your problem, and if you move out and file a complaint with the city the landlord will be forced to deal with it anyway.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Katy

[StaceyinLA]

I recommend chalk paint. It’s a little pricier to use, but it’ll paint over just about anything.

[Scarlett]

I would request new kitchen cabinets.  If your husband is handy, I might even make an offer of installing them if the LL purchased them.  

I don't think there is any other solution honestly.  And with a baby in the house I wouldn't risk her ingesting lead from those chips falling off.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Scarlett