out-of-level SATs

[chocolate-chip chooky]

My 12 yr old's counsellor has suggested that I consider having her take SATs. She said that this could open up options for higher level courses and opportunities.

We're in Australia, so this is only relevant for online US courses and programs, as far as I know. Or maybe it's not. This is how little I know.

I've heard of SATs, and I know they get talked about on here regularly, but I've never really paid attention because it didn't seem relevant to us in Australia.

So, can you give me a quick crash course please?

What are SATs?

What does it mean to do out-of-level SATs? Is this a different test? Or does it just mean you do the exact same test at a younger age?

How is the test (tests?) done? Online? Invigilated? 

What are the benefits? 

Any cons I should know about?

 

The counsellor will obviously give me info too, but I'm hoping to hear from those of you who have had a child do this out-of-level, why you did it, and any experiences and opinions you'd like to share.

Thanks ? 

[8filltheheart]

I have no idea what out of level SATs are. There are subject test SATs and the regular college admissions SAT. I would assume the reference is yo the latter bc I have never heard of subject tests helping with acceptance to higher level courses.

Fwiw, plenty of kids start taking the SAT around 7th grade for talent searches. So it isn't that unusual here.

Edited August 4, 2018 by 8FillTheHeart

[chocolate-chip chooky]

6 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I have no idea what out of level SATs are. There are subject test SATs and the regular college admissions SAT. I would assume the reference is yo the latter bc I have never heard of subject tests helping with acceptance to higher level courses.

Fwiw, plenty of kids start taking the SAT around 7th grade for talent searches. So it isn't that unusual here.

 

Thank you for your reply.

So, is it usually about gaining entry to colleges?

What's a talent search? Please excuse my ignorance.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

I'm reading about it and getting a bit jumbled.

Is it the Scholastic Aptitude Test or the Stanford Achievement Test?

When people generally use SAT, which are they referring to?

[regentrude]

The SAT is one of two tests (the other is the ACT) students take before entering college. The score demonstrates their college readiness. Student take it around 11th grade, some earlier, but at the very latest fall of 12th grade.

"Talent Searches" are conducted by certain organizations that offer courses and other resources for gifted students, and students who may be candidates are encouraged to take the SAT or ACT earlier, in 6th or 7th grade, to qualify.

"Out-of-level" probably refers to the fact that students typically take it between 10th and 12th grade; so it would be out-of-level for a 12 y/o

The test is given in person in testing centers which, in the US, are mostly high schools. There are specific dates on which the test is administered; you have to sign up through the website of the College Board, which is the organization that offers the test. You can check their website to find out about testing in other countries; there are test centers, but they do not offer all dates.

[regentrude]

3 minutes ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I'm reading about it and getting a bit jumbled.

Is it the Scholastic Aptitude Test or the Stanford Achievement Test?

When people generally use SAT, which are they referring to?

In reference to college applications, they mean the Scholastic Aptitude Test

But your counselor may refer to the Stanford. You need to ask her. There, "out of level" would mean test for higher grades.

Edited August 4, 2018 by regentrude

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Thank you ? 

That's really helpful.

I've been reading back through my communication with the counsellor and she mentioned things like Stanford online courses, and maybe needing an SAT to access these at my daughter's age. She also mentioned SATs as 'college entrance exams' that 'have a primary school version'. I'll need to get more info from her and find out exactly what she's talking about.

It may be what you are calling talent searches that she's referring to. 

[Kathy in Richmond]

You want the SAT run by the College Board. The letters no longer stand for anything, though they stood for the Scholastic Aptitude Test in the past.

Out of level testing just means young kids taking a test meant for older kids.

In the US, some advanced middle schoolers take the ACT or SAT (meant for high schoolers applying to college), often through a talent search. Johns Hopkins CTY is one of those organizations. 

Khan Academy has official SAT practice tests free online.

SATs are not administered officially online, only at in-person testing sites. Registration is done in advance:

If under 13 years old, registration must be done by mail.

International Registration & Testing Sites for SAT

My only caution would be to make sure your child is on board with the testing. Some kids, especially those who are used to excelling at everything, can be a bit shaken the first time they encounter a test that may cover material they haven't studied yet. Some have test anxiety. Other kids are energized by the same experience. I had the latter kind of kids, and we found the results useful in a couple of ways. We never did IQ testing, so it was a less expensive way to see how they stack up with gifted kids their own age and also with the college bound population. The scores can be saved and came in useful when my kids applied to certain academic summer camps. Others find the scores useful for dual enrollment in college courses at a young age (we didn't pursue that). Scores earned before high school age disappear from the College Board's records if they're not officially saved, so there's no stress about what to do if they score lower than anticipated.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Kathy in Richmond

[Kathy in Richmond]

Just saw that you're interested in Stanford Online High school. I took a look at their requirements (whether you enroll full time or take a single course or two):

International and Homeschooled Applicants

There it suggests the SAT test as the most commonly available exam for international kids, though they take any of the exams on this list:

Approved Standardized Testing

 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

2 minutes ago, Kathy in Richmond said:

You want the SAT run by the College Board. The letters no longer stand for anything, though they stood for the Scholastic Aptitude Test in the past.

Out of level testing just means young kids taking a test meant for older kids.

In the US, some advanced middle schoolers take the ACT or SAT (meant for high schoolers applying to college), often through a talent search. Johns Hopkins CTY is one of those organizations. 

Khan Academy has official SAT practice tests free online.

SATs are not administered officially online, only at in-person testing sites. Registration is done in advance:

If under 13 years old, registration must be done by mail.

International Registration & Testing Sites for SAT

My only caution would be to make sure your child is on board with the testing. Some kids, especially those who are used to excelling at everything, can be a bit shaken the first time they encounter a test that may cover material they haven't studied yet. Some have test anxiety. Other kids are energized by the same experience. I had the latter kind of kids, and we found the results useful in a couple of ways. We never did IQ testing, so it was a less expensive way to see how they stack up with gifted kids their own age and also with the college bound population. The scores can be saved and came in useful when my kids applied to certain academic summer camps. Others find the scores useful for dual enrollment in college courses at a young age (we didn't pursue that). Scores earned before high school age disappear from the College Board's records if they're not officially saved, so there's no stress about what to do if they score lower than anticipated.

Kathy, thank you!

Regarding the bold - oh yes, I've already discussed this with the counsellor. My daughter has always been homeschooled and has never taken any official exam for anything, so she's never experienced a grade. And there's the fact that she's seeing the counsellor for anxiety-related issues ? 

As I said to the counsellor, if offered at the exact right time, I believe my daughter could love the experience and gain heaps from it. If offered at the wrong time, I think it could be a step backwards for her. I'll need to rely on my mama intuition and her counsellor's advice. And of course all of you helpful folks here.

Thanks heaps. I'm off to look at Khan and John Hopkins.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Almost fell off my chair looking at the cost of the John Hopkins CTY courses ?

I'm thinking this is probably the sort of thing the counsellor is referring to though: online, high-level challenging courses that you need to show test scores to be eligible for.

Edited August 4, 2018 by chocolate-chip chooky

[Kathy in Richmond]

Just now, chocolate-chip chooky said:

Almost fell off my chair looking at the cost of the John Hopkins CTY courses ?

I'm thinking this is probably the sort of thing the counsellor is referring to though: online, high-level challenging courses that you need to show test scores to be eligible for.

Then don't look at the cost of the Stanford courses! ??

My daughter did take math with Stanford in the old days when the classes cost less, and then she received about 2/3 of the tuition as financial aid. Not sure if aid is possible these days.

I agree that the cost is high, & I used to work as a CTY math instructor LOL (not online, though). I certainly wasn't paid anywhere near that amount!

We did splurge on summer camp experiences, though. They were worth it to us for the chance for the kids to connect with others like themselves.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

2 minutes ago, Kathy in Richmond said:

Then don't look at the cost of the Stanford courses! ??

My daughter did take math with Stanford in the old days when the classes cost less, and then she received about 2/3 of the tuition as financial aid. Not sure if aid is possible these days.

I agree that the cost is high, & I used to work as a CTY math instructor LOL (not online, though). I certainly wasn't paid anywhere near that amount!

We did splurge on summer camp experiences, though. They were worth it to us for the chance for the kids to connect with others like themselves.

Imagine our commute to the summer camp ? 

[Dmmetler]

A lot of the gifted stuff costs. DD can do 10 classes at the local community college, with NO scholarships or DE money, for the cost of a single OHS class, so we've used her scores more for that kind of advocacy. I'm not sure how useful it would be in Australia, but in the US, those scores make a major difference. I've known people to use them both for high school and for college classes, because being able to show that your 12 yr old is way above the district average or the average for entering students at a college makes a big difference.

[mumto2]

Going to add this to the conversation although I think now the Cty etc might be what the counselor was referring to.....

When I read your initial post I immediately started thinking more of opportunities within your country which SAT’s open for Americans, which would mean you could perhaps utilize them too.  For instance, my DS applied to UK universities at 16 using the 3 SAT/ AP and the ACT/SAT that are traditionally required of American students applying here.  He applied as a Brit using US qualifications which is apparently becoming more common among the UK home ed community because it is so hard to get traditional British A levels as home ed.  The qualifications were never the issue.  His age was his main problem for some programs and they deferred him until 18 for those programs.  Interestingly the programs that deferred him all stated that they anticipated their age requirements to be altered soon.  

Since then we know of a few home ed candidates who have been accepted at 14+ (not sure of exact ages......at least 14) to Open University degree tracks.  These candidates were all accepted via interview I believe.  I have no idea about cost but OU does serve worldwide.  Here it is significantly less expensive than an on campus degree.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

On 8/6/2018 at 12:52 AM, dmmetler said:

A lot of the gifted stuff costs. DD can do 10 classes at the local community college, with NO scholarships or DE money, for the cost of a single OHS class, so we've used her scores more for that kind of advocacy. I'm not sure how useful it would be in Australia, but in the US, those scores make a major difference. I've known people to use them both for high school and for college classes, because being able to show that your 12 yr old is way above the district average or the average for entering students at a college makes a big difference.

What's OHS? Online highschool?

[Dmmetler]

Stanford Online High School

[Pegs]

Chooky, you might also look into the Special Tertiary Admissions Test (STAT). It's an Australian university entrance exam.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

20 hours ago, Pegs said:

Chooky, you might also look into the Special Tertiary Admissions Test (STAT). It's an Australian university entrance exam.

Thanks Pegsy.

When the time comes, I'll definitely look into this as well. I'd heard though that the STAT has a lower top rank you can achieve and that it's more age-restricted than other avenues. I don't know any of this as fact, though. 

 

[Pegs]

It's used by many universities for mature age entry, but I just read the other day that my uni also uses it for early entry, and I bet others do too.

[SeaConquest]

Also, before the SAT or ACT, many of the talent searches use the PSAT 8/9 to qualify. It would normally be the pre-SAT for 8th and 9th graders, but is used for 4th graders and up in talent search because it is out of their grade level knowledge. 

Also, I don't know about for international students, but both CTY and Stanford Online HS have pretty generous financial aid.

[Black-eyed Suzan]

Can I piggyback on this thread and ask an additional question?

How does a younger homeschooled student register for the SAT by mail outside of a talent search?

This link says "To register by mail, ask your counselor for the Student Registration Booklet for the SAT and SAT Subject Tests. It comes with a registration form and return envelope."

Did you call the school where the child will take the test and pick one up? Do I contact SAT as a counselor and request one?

The info for homeschooled students doesn't say how to register by mail.

Thanks!

[gstharr]

Just telephone CollegeBoard and ask them to mail you an application.  When we called, they seemed annoyed, but did mail it. 

[Black-eyed Suzan]

43 minutes ago, gstharr said:

Just telephone CollegeBoard and ask them to mail you an application.  When we called, they seemed annoyed, but did mail it. 

 

Thank you!