First IEP meeting- seventh grader

[Terabith]

Our kids are starting at public school in the fall for the first time, so we are having our first IEP meeting.  I’m not really sure what to ask for.  Her testing probably should be updated, but that’s not urgent.  She’s gifted, with a sky high vocabulary, but dyslexia and disorder of written expression.  She has low processing speed and working memory in the less than first percentile.  It’s so low that we’ve been unable to do any metronome work, because I couldn’t find a low enough starting rate, and she has a ptsd like response to metronomes from our vision therapy debacle.  She has a lot of anxiety, and autism keeps being thrown back and forth.  I think she needs honors classes, both for content and because she doesn’t deal well with peers who don’t follow the rules.   She will take a typing class.  I’m hoping typing will be very useful for her as she progresses through school.  She reads above grade level but is a terrible speller, so I know we need teachers not to take off for spelling in regular work.  I’m not sure what else to ask for.  

[PeterPan]

Well are you asking for services or accommodations?

My suggestion would be to make sure they do testing in areas that HAVEN'T been tested before. Yes you could mention your recurrent concerns about spectrum. Some schools have ADOS teams even and will diagnose and be pretty proactive. Even if they don't, at the very least they could run the Social Language Development Test or something similar for pragmatics and have some social goals. 

It sounds like she'll have academic goals. 

Think through how the anxiety was affecting her day and what she needs to happen. She needs sensory breaks and consultative OT services? What supports has she had so far in her other school? That will be very telling I think for what they provide for her at the new school. What more does she need beyond what she was already getting?

[Pen]

Think about what in reality you think could help her and also listen to what they think could help her.

Some of this will depend on the school. Size and other factors could impact anxiety more or less. 

Dyslexia and dysgraphia accommodations  

Perhaps in the circumstances she could have something like honors classes in math and English and maybe one other, the typing class, a fun class if possible or PE to have move around time, 1 study skills class or study hall, and whatever is left to be study hall time to work on the math and English   So maybe she would end up with 4 regular classes including typing and 2 or 3 study halls. Maybe PE  

If friendship might be a problem ask about classes or clubs she might be in tha might help develop friends    Having a friend could help reduce anxiety  

Id definitely mention anxiety, possible ASD, and if you have any EF concerns that too in addition to what is known from past evaluations. Tell them the basics too, instead of assuming they are familiar with her past evaluation and IEPs. 

[Storygirl]

At our first IEP meeting, we took all of the documentation for testing that we had done privately (actually I gave it to them ahead of time, but the case manager did not look at it until the metting). I also wrote up a history that detailed both our concerns and the kind of help and accommodations we had provided during homeschooling. I thought it was helpful to have everything in writing. But I also did a lot of talking during the meeting, introducing to the team all of the concerns that we had.

Two cautions: First, despite all of this, the school said there was not enough evidence to suspect a disability yet, because we lacked input from teachers. This is mentioned in the federal law, and the school used it as a loophole to delay the process for us. Do not be surprised if your school does this too. I was shocked and dismayed, because I was not prepared for that response from them (before the meeting, the school principal had even said she thought an IEP would be appropriate, but the case manager had her own agenda). I hope your school is willing to set up an IEP from day one, but just be ready for them to balk.

Secondly, despite all the testing that I had, some of which was only two months old, the school wanted to do their own testing. Schools are required to consider documentation from private evaluators, but they don't have to accept it in place of their own testing, and I think most schools have their own psych run their own testing. This is not a bad thing, but it does mean that time needs to taken to do this.

Be prepared with a list of things you think she should be tested for, including everything that is currently diagnosed, plus anything you still have questions about. Our school personally did not want to address the autism issue and said that they would consider an outside autism diagnosis if we ever got one. There may (should) be a checklist or document that outlines all of the testing that will be done. Make sure that everything that you have a concern about is going to be tested; in some cases, schools will refuse to consider something later, saying that they are only obligated to test the things on that list. Her social issues will be evaluated by a speech therapist, so make sure to get that on the list. At that age, the school OT will probably not do anything for handwriting, etc., but ask for an OT evaluation anyway. Our son did not qualify for OT services, but the OT's report provided a huge list of accommodations and modifications that made it into DS's IEP, so that evaluation was essential.

Be well prepared to make your case for honors classes. Ask for accommodations such as extra time on tests, which are taken in a quiet room. Speech to text for testing. Being able to type or dictate answers on quizzes and tests, if her spelling is so poor that teachers will not be able to decipher her answers (DD's spelling can make her writing indecipherable). Schools now often use Chromebooks for everything, so most students are typing instead of writing when doing projects and papers, but if your school does not, ask for a typing accommodation.

You can ask for preferred seating in class and for copies of any notes the teacher put on the boards. You can ask for study guides already filled in, if needed (DS can't fill in a study guide in class well enough to then use it for studying). You can ask for you to be able to scribe at home, when she is doing homework. You can ask for workbook or assignment pages to have larger print, more white space, fewer problems on math pages and workbook pages.

The modification of having fewer problems/ questions to do for homework might be a good one for her, since she is gifted. She may grasp concepts without having to do as much homework as the average student. She can also have extended time to complete assignments. Ask if there are audio versions of the school texts. She should have that as an accommodation, as well.

I hope your school is easy to work with! It's good that you are getting a jump start on this before school begins. Hopefully you can have some helps in place by the first day of school. If they say they can't do much until the teachers have a chance to give input, ask to set up a follow up meeting with teachers present after the first four weeks of school. They may push for a grading period or even a semester, but hopefully you can make the case that it's important for her to have a successful start.

[Storygirl]

Also, if she has executive function issues that hinder her ability to write down and turn in assignments, you can ask for help with that. DS got a lot of help at his old school with that, but his new school puts all assignments on the computer, and students don't need to keep assignment books. Something to ask about.

Also, if she will have trouble with a combination., ask if she can have a locker without a lock. And if she will get lost in the hallways, ask if she can learn her way around before school starts and if they will provide a guide for the first days of school.

[Terabith]

Good thoughts!   I asked her what she thought would help, and she didn’t have any thoughts.  Honestly, I’m not sure she needs direct services. She does Wilson tutoring at a local autism school, and I know they won’t do tutoring starting at HER level anyway.  All services are geared towards getting her to pass the year end standardized tests, and I’m not sure what that will be like in reality.  What made her successful at the Catholic school was small classes, very tight discipline, and they made sure everyone wrote down assignments in their planners. I’m not sure how that can be replicated.  Friends are a worry for me.  She actually has a pretty active social life with boys from her D&D groups, but none of them are at her school.  Her classes will be:  English, Math (basically Pre-Algebra), Physical Science, US History from Civil War to present (which is actually a repeat of what she took in sixth grade), PE/ Health, Art/ Typing (not sure if it’s by semester or alternates daily), and Choir.  No study halls, but I’d be fine with her taken out of history for one.  I’d love it if they helped her find a friend.  She does better if teachers don’t write in cursive.  For note taking, she actually prefers taking her own notes to being given copies of teacher’s notes, but at the Catholic school, they pretty much wanted everyone copying the same thing.  She’s slow, and will need copies of notes if teachers go fast.  Not sure how she will do if they are expected to take own notes from a lecture...she has never learned how to do it.  The middle school teachers at the Catholic school were nervous about reading her spelling, but they said it’s actually completely phonetic and easy to read.  Her religion teacher said English would be better off if her spelling was the standardized ones.  I’d love it if she didn’t have spelling tests.  I don’t know if that’s a thing in seventh grade.  They all get laptops in 8th grade, but until she types better, I don’t think tech will help her much.  Extra time in a quiet room might help, but I don’t know if she’d need it or not.  Mostly her teachers have adored her.  They all thought she belonged in honors classes, even though she sometimes got C’s in history especially, since she’s terrible at remembering names and dates.  But she’s great at remembering stories and making connections.  Apparently she often offered fun facts related to what they were learning and was not shy about correcting the science teacher (who was a complete idiot).  

[Terabith]

She doesn’t need audiobooks because she actually reads well above grade level and doesn’t have issues with speed.  She shouldn’t get lost.  She’s never used a lock, but I don’t think she’d have trouble with one.  She once got a NVLD diagnosis, but I really disagree with it since her visual puzzles and block design on the WISC were in the 99.9th percentile and the more abstract the math is, the better she does.  It just never seemed to explain her issues. She did very well on both verbal and nonverbal parts of the WISC but bombed working memory and processing.  I don’t have a good feel for how homework will be in public school.  In Catholic, I thought mostly it was good, except for occasional things like word searches or crossword puzzles.  In math, she sometimes does need the extra practice that all the assigned problems give.  Part of why I want honors classes is they tend to have more serious students and better teachers.  But if they have a ton of busy work, reduced stuff would be good.  If they don’t include time for students to write down assignments in their planner, then I’d like her to be able to take a picture of assignment or something.  She’s not going to do well with a teacher orally saying on the way out the door, “Do page 87, odd questions.”   But I don’t think many seventh graders would.

[Kanin]

I'm not sure about the range of accommodations available at public schools, but could you ask her to be exempted from spelling tests, if they're still a thing in 7th grade? Also, you could ask for an accommodation that a teacher checks her planner to see that she's written down her assignments in each class. That seems low stress but really helpful.

[PeterPan]

You want tech in a 504 at least. It's only an IEP if services or specialized instruction. 

[Pen]

22 hours ago, Terabith said:

 What made her successful at the Catholic school was small classes, very tight discipline, and they made sure everyone wrote down assignments in their planners.

 

Getting assignments written down down has been an area of great difficulty for my son even when teachers have been trying to help make it easier by posting them on the wall or in other ways. It’s hard to do well if what to do is not known. If you work out a great way to manage this please let me know. 

22 hours ago, Terabith said:

I’m not sure how that can be replicated.  Friends are a worry for me.  She actually has a pretty active social life with boys from her D&D groups, but none of them are at her school.  

Ask what groups have a reputation to being inclusive and supportive. 

22 hours ago, Terabith said:

Her classes will be:  English, Math (basically Pre-Algebra), Physical Science, US History from Civil War to present (which is actually a repeat of what she took in sixth grade), PE/ Health, Art/ Typing (not sure if it’s by semester or alternates daily), and Choir.  No study halls, but I’d be fine with her taken out of history for one.  I’d love it if they helped her find a friend.  

 

Since she is good at science and already went through the history once, that may be fine. I’d let it be unless a problem develops. Plenty of extra times on the history may help to do well in high school history. 

22 hours ago, Terabith said:

 

She does better if teachers don’t write in cursive.

 

It it turned out at my son’s school  that was already a rule because so many children had difficulty reading cursive.  So all the teachers wrote in print letters.  I hope that will be the case at your daughter school also. 

22 hours ago, Terabith said:

 

 For note taking, she actually prefers taking her own notes to being given copies of teacher’s notes, but at the Catholic school, they pretty much wanted everyone copying the same thing.  She’s slow, and will need copies of notes if teachers go fast.  Not sure how she will do if they are expected to take own notes from a lecture...she has never learned how to do it.  The middle school teachers at the Catholic school were

 

 Again I don’t know how your daughter’s school will be, but at my son’school they are still teaching  note taking in seventh and eighth grade. The teachers tend to put everything they want written into student notes on the board.  And in eighth grade, his history teacher was actively working with the students to learn how to take notes from the book and from what she said. 

[Pen]

Some teacher’s are good at putting kids with partners for group work so that they have required interaction with others who may be able to turn into friends. You could perhaps request this. I had a problem of my ds gravitating towards bad role model buddies, and a couple teachers used seat assignments to move him away. Other teachers have used rotating seat assignments to put kids near a variety of other students rather than let everyone cling to their besties all year. 

[Terabith]

My gut is that she's going to do fine, but I can imagine situations where things don't go well.  She had an ISP at the Catholic school.  For a couple years, they took her out of class to work with her.  The first year it was fine, but the second year she HATED the new intervention special ed teacher and flat out refused to work for her.  So in fifth grade, the intervention teacher pushed into her regular class, but she refused to even look at the lady.  They wound up with the intervention teacher helping other kids so the regular teacher could help her if she was struggling.  Last year, they just had her on consult services, where every once in awhile the intervention teacher observed.  That worked best, but again, a big part of the issue was she hated the lady who was the intervention teacher.  (And honestly, I don't blame her.  She was condescending and had a voice like nails on a chalkboard.  Her passive resistance/ ignoring approach wasn't appropriate, but I understood her reluctance.)  And they don't like taking them out of class in middle school as much as they do in the elementary grades.  I'd like the IEP for the protections it provides, but I'm not strictly sure it will help.  

She does have a low frustration tolerance and can be rigid.  And when she panics, she freezes, and that can look oppositional.  And she can refuse to do stuff, too.  She's usually polite about it, doesn't throw a fit, but will just have a passive resistance that Gandhi would have been proud of.  If she likes the teacher, she's golden.  If not...well, she's gotten better than she used to be.  Her teachers at the Catholic school all thought she belonged in honors classes.  At lunch, they all sit as a class, which I think will be good.  That helps prevent the "I don't have anyone to sit with" scenario.  And they don't change clothes for pe, which eliminates some anxiety.  

I don't think the cursive will be an issue, since none of their friends in public school know cursive, even the ones in high school.  The Catholic school prized itself on their handwriting instruction and did cursive contests and stuff.  She can COPY cursive beautifully, but reading what it says is laborious for her.  We're going to hold off on foreign language until high school and probably do ASL.  They have the option of starting Spanish for high school credit in sixth or seventh grade, but my gut says ASL will be a better fit.  And I figure most middle schools are still teaching note taking.  That's a pretty age appropriate thing to still be working on.  Her executive functioning is really not that bad.  I think it's pretty age appropriate.  The Catholic school made a big deal about homework planners and everything getting written down, and she did great.  I don't know how much support for that kind of thing is built into the regular day at the public school.  Given some reasonable options (assignments written on the board and/ or time provided to write down assignments in a planner) I think she'll do fine, but she's going to do better with a structured, old fashioned teacher than a loosey goosey one who doesn't do those things but expects kids to remember what is mentioned in passing.

[Terabith]

So, I got an email from the person in charge telling me I can pick up the draft copy of the IEP tomorrow.  I’m wondering...how can someone who has never met my daughter, has not talked with her parents or teachers, and who has not had any testing done for several years, have any kind of a draft done in advance?

[Lecka]

I get drafts.  They may have a lot of blanks.  At least you can make sure name/address stuff is filled out and not have to worry about that at the meeting.  You can see if they have included results from testing you have dropped off; if you have dropped anything off.

I would not expect there to be much filled out at this point but it is helpful not to waste anytime with stuff like this, or show up and find out you dropped off some info and nobody has it — things like that.  

[Storygirl]

It sounds weird to me. How have they even determined that she qualifies for an IEP? Unless to streamline the process, they have decided to accept whatever testing results you provided instead of doing their own.

If you are not satisfied that whatever is in the draft copy will meet her needs, don't sign anything, even if they ask you to. Is there any kind of meeting scheduled? The law requires for the creation of the IEP to be a team process, and the team MUST include a classroom teacher, the parent(s), a representative from the school (sometimes the principal, but sometimes the special ed case manager fills this role), a special education teacher, and a person who can interpret test results (usually the school psych).

http://www.wrightslaw.com/idea/art/iep.team.members.htm

Perhaps you will agree with everything they have in the draft. Even if that happens, If it were me, I would insist on having an IEP meeting with all members of the team in the room to discuss the document before signing it. You can also ask that they update testing. Especially anything that is over three years old (schools are required to retest -- or have the team decide that certain testing is not necessary to repeat --  every three years).

And maybe the draft will be very preliminary, as Lecka suggests.

It will be interesting to see what happens. At least it sounds like they are willing to have an IEP in place.

[Lecka]

I request my drafts and if she has had any school testing then you can get the results with the draft possibly.  That is a huge positive for me as I can look through stuff, instead of trying to look through it at the morning.

Nothing that’s an actual decision should be decided before the meeting and it is easy to change drafts.

OThis is not with brand new meetings, but other times I get drafts I circle things I want changed, so I’m ready to bring it up at the meeting.  

Anyway — I agree, don’t sign anything if you aren’t totally satisfied.  It’s  really fine to say you want more time to look over it.  I have said I want my husband to weigh in, too, if there’s some decision and he is not able to attend.  

I really do better getting things in advance though, it makes for a smoother meeting for me.  

Another thing is it may say who is expected to attend.

You CAN say you want more people to attend, if the list looks sparse or you think the highest person won’t be able to make decisions adequately.  Like — some meetings are fine if there is a speech therapist and a teacher.  Other meetings I have had — I have had two IEP meetings attended by a principal.  

Where we live now there is a (forgetting the title) but I have had either the director or an assistant director attend.  If I thought it would be a meeting where things wouldn’t go smoothly, I would consider requesting the director attend if we were scheduled with the assistant director.  

[Lecka]

It also might give you a name for a case manager who you could email before with questions if you wanted.  

It will just depend on what is on the draft!

There can be a lot of administrative stuff that is not really about making decisions, though.  

I do think it’s the law that they provide any draft material they have before the meeting, they may have a policy to proactively offer it before meetings.

It gives me a good impression that they are proactively offering it and not just having it be for parents who know they can request it and request it.  

But I think what it’s like when you get it will make a big difference if it seems good or like they’re trying to do too much without your input.  

 

[PeterPan]

7 hours ago, Terabith said:

So, I got an email from the person in charge telling me I can pick up the draft copy of the IEP tomorrow.  I’m wondering...how can someone who has never met my daughter, has not talked with her parents or teachers, and who has not had any testing done for several years, have any kind of a draft done in advance?

This is just my two cents, but I think when they see a lot of kids (which they do), they know profiles and patterns. So there was enough documentation and evidence that they got something moving forward. She had prior evals that they accepted or SOMETHING that they could base it on. And to me, I'd rather they were pro-active than in a wait and see, let the kid fail first, kind of policy. So I'd be cool with that.

The trick comes if they pigeon hole the dc and aren't willing to acknowledge anything further with new evidence. That can be a problem. But if they're being helpful, then maybe think the best and roll with it and figure they'll do more evals and up the support if more is needed, kwim? This is a dc who already had private evals, right? She already had paper trail. Even for a dc like mine, really experienced people really his paperwork and know what they're going to see. Yes he's an individual, but they know how it pans out in their system. So look at it as a starting point. If something is missing you KNOW needs to be there for her to succeed, negotiate and get it in. The social is the piece I would be bringing up, because you may or may not have had evals for that. Sometimes people deal with that in the ps system, but sometimes at this stage parents pay for private services. 

[ktgrok]

My son would take photos of assignments written on the board using a smart phone, as it was faster. If she could do that, and then write them down later, that might work. Same with any notes on the board maybe? Or if the teacher doesn't want her having a phone in class, maybe the teacher could take the photos and email or text them to her or you?

[Terabith]

She was accepted for services back when she was seven, based on our neuropsychologist’s report.  They gave her an ISP, which is a service plan for kids in private or home schools.  She’s received services ever since, but she’s very different at 13 than she was at 7.  There’s a meeting scheduled for the ninth.  I just was surprised that this person who has never met her could do any kind of draft beforehand.  Guess I’ll see what they have to say in it tomorrow.  

[Lecka]

They may be getting reports from her current service providers?  

If she has an active ISP they may be going off of her current ISP, too.  If that’s the case ———— that sounds very typical to me.

Often people at IEP meetings have no contact with my child and are going off of paperwork.  Not everybody —— but for example the (whatever they are) director and assistant directors have never laid eyes on either of my kids.  They go off of paperwork.  

[Terabith]

That makes sense.  It's just weird, because she hasn't worked directly with any providers in two years.  But it's probably what it is.

[Terabith]

Okay, I got the draft.  Mostly it's copies of testing and stuff from years ago, including the fact that she's on medication for mild ADD.  (We tried medication for two days when she was seven in the hopes that it would improve her processing speed.  It did, but it made her manic.  Her behavior was truly bizarre for her, and that was the end of that experiment.)  But, whatever.  It talks about how oppositional she can be, which I guess is strictly speaking true, but it's more accurate to say that when she panics, she freezes.  The effect is pretty similar, but if you treat her as if she's being defiant, it just makes the whole situation worse.  They copied stuff that was true when she was seven (she sometimes refuses to complete written work) but hasn't been true for many years.  So, that's annoying.

They don't have the main thing that I think is important:  not taking off for spelling in classroom work.  They include things like redirection as needed, preferential seating, testing in small groups, and breaks as needed.  Honestly, I'm going to ask Catherine, but I'm not at all sure she's going to want to take tests in another room.  She hates being removed from the classroom.  It makes her very self conscious, and she's never really needed extended time.  (She might on standardized tests, but I don't know.)  It includes such exciting goals as "Using a variety of strategies, Catherine will attempt 8/10 tasks by established deadlines in each core class for 2 consecutive grade levels."  Such an ambitious goal for a kid with an IQ over 140....  

[ktgrok]

Oh, I was recently reading that for ADHD kids extra time is useless, but being allowed to take breaks is important. If sitting and concentrating is hard, sitting and concentrating LONGER isn't going to help, lol. But being able to get up and get a drink of water, use the bathroom, etc CAN help. Just a thought. 

[Terabith]

Yeah.  She doesn't actually have ADD.  She just has no working memory and really low processing speed.  So the effect can be similar.  I asked her how she felt about testing in small groups, and she actually is in favor of it, so that's good.  I'm just disgusted with the goals.

[PeterPan]

Or she has ADHD but is an over-methylator (COMT defect, THP2 defect, etc.) explaining why she went manic when you put her on methyl donor ADHD stimulant medication. METHYLphenidate. It's why ds isn't on meds right now, because our ped won't even consider them. 

Ironically, you'll read about anti-depressants bumping attention and being used for people who have atypical responses to ADHD meds. I'm connecting that to the TPH2 (5HTP) defect. To me, my attention is better on the 5HTP. I don't have data on that, but my life shows it. I'm still pretty much a rabbit on speed, but I can actually get things done, which is close enough. 

So run genetics. DSM is junk, bunk. Rant, rant. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Yeah.  She doesn't actually have ADD.  She just has no working memory and really low processing speed.  So the effect can be similar.  I asked her how she felt about testing in small groups, and she actually is in favor of it, so that's good.  I'm just disgusted with the goals.

Schools will do a "file review" sometimes instead of fresh evals at 3 years, which it sounds like is what they did. Have you tried contacting your state dept of ed? They should have departments for disputes, claims of due process, etc. You're not even disputing evals. You're disputing the fact that they didn't DO evals but did a file review using really old evals. And I go back to my point that by not evaling they have failed in their responsibility to identify ALL the disabilities. She very probably would flag as having issues on the SLDT (Social Language Development Test) or the TOPS (Test of Problem Solving). So by doing a file review and not addressing your stated concerns, they're avoiding testing, which is letting them avoid adding real, substantive goals.  And I agree, vague goals are not adequate.

She's of an age where she can be present in the IEP meeting. But I would definitely find out your options before you go in, and I mean your legal options to dispute this. You don't know whether to sign, not sign, state you disagree, or what. You want some counsel. Our state dept of ed has a lawyer, and if you ask really targeted questions, they forward your email to him. It takes a week or so to get a reply, but that's what you can get when you ask really targeted legal questions. Put them in writing and write your dept of ed and don't stop till you get answers. Be really precise. Say you've been out of the system x years, have an ISP with last evals of this date, are enrolling, that they did a file review to generate the IEP and no further evals, ask your question, what is your right to dispute when they write an IEP without doing further evals to identify the disabilities you had asked them to eval for in writing, blah blah. Obviously for that to work, you need to have asked for evals in writing. But just start asking questions. Costs you nothing, might help you find out something. Make some waves.

[Terabith]

I ran genetics on me, and I've spent hours on it, and I can't even figure it out. I'm green for all but one gene, which is heterozygous and yellow?  I don't know.  I feel like an idiot, but no matter how much googling I do, I really can't figure that stuff out.   But she is not hyperactive, has never been .  And she's not even really inattentive.  She's been given a bunch of tests to measure attention, and she's scored highly on all of them.  The neuropsych when she was seven thought it was possible the meds would boost her processing speed, which seemed reasonable, but the nonstimulant ones didn't make any difference and the stimulant ones made her act like she was on speed.  Which seemed reasonable, since she was.  She's been on antidepressants since she was five, and they made a DRAMATIC difference in both her anxiety and her engagement with the world.  They made her seem much less autistic.  In a year or two when driving becomes an issue, I'd be willing to do another trial of a short acting med, to see if puberty altered her responses, because I think that bump in processing speed could be crucial when driving.  But out of all the issues she might have, I honestly don't think she has ADHD.  My husband does, so the genetics are there, but he has never needed more than coffee to help him, but caffeine doesn't really affect her.   Anxiety, absolutely, yes.  Depression, quite possibly.  Autism....maybe?  But I don't think ADHD.  

[Terabith]

I don't know how many waves to make.  Honestly, I'm really not sure she needs the IEP.  I think she'd be fine with a 504, but I hate to give up the protection when she's starting a new environment.  I asked her if she wanted to go to the meeting, and she doesn't want to.  She doesn't like people talking about her in front of her.  I called the person, and she said they could do fresh testing, but this IEP was to get her started.  That's fine.  I think the goals are bullshit, but it's not like she can't meet them.  "Try 8/10 times a task is presented?"  For a kid with a 140 plus IQ, that's not exactly asking a lot.  But on the other hand, I don't want goals that are so challenging that they're going to pull her from classes to work on.  Asking her to spell seventh grade spelling words....that wouldn't happen, for instance.  It's not realistic.  So don't bother.  What I really want are:  1) for them not to count off for spelling on assignments or tests, and 2) to give her the opportunity to write down assignments. 3)  Ideally, I'd like her not to have timed tests, like those mad math minutes or whatever.  I don't even care if someone checks to make sure she's written  down the homework.  Just give her a chance and don't throw multi step directions at her as she's walking out the door, because then she'll shut down.  No chance of success.  I think those things could be accommodated by a 504, but it would probably be good to have fresh testing done.  It's not crucial until it's time for the SAT/ ACT, though, especially if she does okay.  Now, if she starts falling apart when school starts, then we'd definitely need to get on board with that.  My biggest concern is that reading this draft IEP, it makes her sound as if she's defiant and oppositional, when she really isn't.  What happens is when she gets anxious, she freezes.  So if you treat her as if she's being defiant, it just makes things worse.  If you wait five seconds and move onto someone else and let her regroup, she's fine 99 times out of a hundred.  So I hate for her to walk in and them think of her as a behavior problem when she really, really is not.  She does best with people who are warm and nurturing but structured.  She's a seriously awesome kid.  Funny, droll, sarcastic, perceptive, empathetic, a deep thinker.  She doesn't suffer fools patiently.  There was a complaint from the science teacher who kept telling the class things that Catherine knew were wrong.  So she kept correcting her.  When the teacher asked her if she wanted to teach the class, Catherine proceeded to get up and do so, teaching the class all about punnett squares.  The teacher was annoyed and said that was disrespectful, but even the principal was like, "Well, you asked her...And she was RIGHT about all the things she said."  

[Kanin]

Sorry you’re bummed about the draft goals. They do seem sort of... blah. It sounds like they’re maybe trying to address the potential work refusal? 

I recommend being super-prepared for the actual meeting. Read through the things you’ve said here already (writing down/taking picture of assignments, less busy work, etc) and make a list of things you want addressed in her accommodations.

If you have some specific goals, write those down too. Like - make conversation with peers, learn strategies for when she starts to freeze up, etc. You can print out a stack of copies and give them to everyone at the meeting. You can even look at this IEP goal bank (https://usd320.socs.net/vimages/shared/vnews/stories/5a0c6b023d64b/IEP%20Goal%20Bank.pdf#page71) and copy out some sample goals that you think would fit with the goals you want.

Did you already request new evaluations by the school? You need to make a request in writing, and send it to everyone. There are good samples on the web. 

It sounds like it will be a good experience for her, even though so far the goals are a bit lackluster. Hopefully everyone on the team is up for some revisions!

[Terabith]

That's what it sounds like to me.  But she hasn't refused to do work since she was SEVEN.  She's 13 now.  She's a whole different kid.

[Kanin]

Haha, I just read your last response about teaching the science class. That’s pretty awesome :D

I had a student that sounds like a younger version of your daughter. Boy, did we have some trying times until I figured out that her “defiance” was confusion, embarassment, being overloaded, etc. I think it’s quite a good idea to have an accommodation that says when she’s freezing up, to give her time to regroup.

It’s great that they’re going to do new testing, but I’d put that in writing ASAP. Send to everyone!

[Kanin]

Just now, Terabith said:

That's what it sounds like to me.  But she hasn't refused to do work since she was SEVEN.  She's 13 now.  She's a whole different kid.

 

Yeah.... definitely need some updating! She sounds like a fantastic individual. I wish I could be her teacher!

[Lecka]

It is so easy to change goals.  If you tell them something is from years ago, they can just delete it.  It’s a draft!  

Get your paperwork good.  It’s not making waves.  It will benefit the teachers and your daughter to have good information to work with.  

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, Terabith said:

I ran genetics on me, and I've spent hours on it, and I can't even figure it out. I'm green for all but one gene, which is heterozygous and yellow?  I don't know.  I feel like an idiot, but no matter how much googling I do, I really can't figure that stuff out. 

You're welcome to pm me. 

[geodob]

A draft IEP,  just provides a starting point for discussions.  Where they have informed you about information they have,  so that you know what new information they need to consider.  

 

[Terabith]

It was more of a fight to get her into honors classes than I expected; the guidance counselor wasn't there.  They kept saying to start out in regular classes and bump up, but I argued that it was much harder to do that mid year than bump down.  They kept saying that the expectations for the honors classes were too high, that they were strict about late assignments and such, and I argued that she does better rising to the occasion, and that I honestly care less about grades than about learning, which seemed to puzzle them.  They kept saying, "But she will probably have higher grades in regular classes."  They didn't seem to understand that we don't care.  I think it's a "see how it goes."

Need to get a lock to practice with one for lockers.  That may be an issue.  Not sure.  She's never had one before.  

It seems like they work with the kids on note taking and writing down assignments, and most classes let them keep a textbook at home, so you don't have to worry about dragging them home.  They said people wouldn't count off for spelling, but they didn't make it a formal accommodation.   I hope that's okay.  They talked a lot about editing final drafts of essays.  Big writing projects aren't a problem.  They get typed; there's spell check, and we edit at home.  It's the day to day stuff that I'm worried about.  That's the only thing that could be a big issue.  Even if they don't count off but correct everything, she's going to get very discouraged.  In 8th grade, there's a state writing test, and she said they need to know homophones, which is honestly not going to happen.  But we'll worry about it when it happens.  I hope it will be okay.  I really have no idea.  I just don't have a feel for how things will work in practice.  

[Lecka]

If you see a problem with too many markings, I think start with contacting that teacher.  From what I have seen that might only be the English teacher, and even then, many teachers focus on their top priorities.  

If they mark everything all the time, kids don’t even know where to start.  

I don’t see spelling corrected in middle school.

I’m glad you got honors classes ?

 

[Terabith]

Historically, it’s been the science teachers who fussed about spelling.  But we don’t exactly have a huge sample set.  I think the key is going to be working with the teachers, just like everything else.  If the teacher is a bad fit, I’m willing to move her down for one who is better.  But I want to try with the higher level classes and see how it goes. 

[PeterPan]

Well has she been doing work comparable to their honors level classes already?

I think the notetaking could be an issue if they expect more in the honors classes. But would only LA and math be honors or everything? That's what I would bone up on over the summer. Stuff like homophones and testing are their problem, mercy. They can update the IEP and add services. I would work on the notetaking now, with a literacy specialist or SLP or someone qualified, and work on that diligently.

On the lock, you're going to need to find one that works for her. Don't they have some alternative kinds? It's horrible to be stressed and standing there trying to remember. I've seen accommodations listed for that. 

I think you're right that she'll be happier with her intellectual peers, so long as she can keep up enough not to feel terribly overwhelmed/discouraged. You're right there are usually a range of kids, even in "honors" classes.

[Terabith]

It’s hard to compare.  The Catholic school didn’t have honors classes, but their science and history curriculum was a year “ahead” of the standard public school program.  History doesn’t matter, but in public the honors kids do life science in sixth, physical science in seventh, and earth science in eighth.  Regular kids do everything a year later.  Catholic had all the kids on the public school honors track.  So science she needs honors just to take the next class.  History is going to be a repeat for her, so I don’t see why not do honors.  Math was tracked in Catholic, and she was in the lower track, but that corresponds to honors in public.   She was slated for pre algebra next year and algebra 1 in eighth.  There’s an accelerated track at both public and Catholic that was algebra 1 in 7th and geometry in 8th.  She isn’t ready for that, but I think pre-algebra will be fine.  She loves literature and has a good writing voice.  She’s not great at mechanics, but that’s what proofreaders are for.  She prefers taking her own notes; she’s just slow if they want kids copying from the power point.  They said she could get copies of notes if she doesn’t get everything down.  Her English teacher at Catholic was adamant that she should be in the honors class.

 I don’t know if the lock will be a problem.  They didn’t mention alternatives, but since she’s never tried one, I don’t know if it will be an issue.  She will probably need to write down her combination, but we should probably teach her how they work, so she isn’t totally unfamiliar.  

Special ed teacher kept saying that honors teachers are strict about deadlines and such.  She’s going to rise up to or down to whatever the expectations are.  

[Lecka]

I’m just going to say I know you get it, but I can understand why the teacher was saying that about the deadlines and things.  I have seen parents be really unrealistic with expectations and also want their kids in levels where it is getting over their head.  

It doesn’t sound like that applies to your situation with previous teachers saying to do honors, but I can see why it was said up front.  They don’t know you and for some parents this would be a good thing to say up front and let them change their mind or get them thinking about dropping down if things don’t go as well.  

I think too for bump down or bump up, you start where she probably is going to do the best.  It sounds like honors!  It’s probably just less common for an IEP meeting, so not what they were expecting.  

[Terabith]

I totally understand.  And it didn't help that despite the fact I was told that the Catholic school had sent over her grades, the lady running the IEP meeting didn't have them, so that didn't help my case.  My biggest concern is that the only thing I wanted in the IEP (not counting off for spelling in daily work) was not put in there.  They assured me that teachers wouldn't, but they wouldn't put it in the document.  So I don't feel warm and fuzzy about that.