Roadrunner Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 If you were going to tutor a junior who scored 530 on math and made mistakes all over the place, (so no obvious area or weakness) where would you start? Would you spend time just working together through as many SAT problems as you have time every week, or would you put him through Barron’s, or anything else? This is a PS kid who basically didn’t get a good enough math education in school. We have 6 months to help him. They can’t afford professional tutors and he seems to not do well with Khan. Any help at this point is better than nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I think I'd start at the beginning, cover the operations of arithmetic with a good conceptual basis, hopefully just a quick review, make sure fractions and decimals are understood, then go straight through prealgebra topics and THEN move to algebra and geometry topics. Maybe not try to hit every type of question on the SAT but focus on the most common and most accessible ones. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I'd go with an SAT test prep book like Pwn the SAT (not a typo!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I think Pwn the SAT is for kids who are already pretty high scorers. I would try College Panda SAT Math. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I haven't used College Panda math, but Pwn the SAT wasn't off the charts difficult IMHO. If you want something simpler, try Princeton Review. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 What about Barron’s SAT math book? I have it on the self. Is it not good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 The new SAT math section debuted March 2016, so don't use anything too old. Check Amazon reviews, as I didn't use that one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Barrons SAT math subject tests are not timed right. DS could not get them done in the time allotted. (and if anyone should be able to, it would be him). Not sure about the SAT math section in the main SAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 Barrons SAT math subject tests are not timed right. DS could not get them done in the time allotted. (and if anyone should be able to, it would be him). Not sure about the SAT math section in the main SAT. They have a math book for regular SAT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 What about Barron’s SAT math book? I have it on the self. Is it not good? Start with that. Good enough - then borrow stuff from your library The student is starting at a fairly low level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendall Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I can't tell you specifically about the SAT, but I would either do the systematic review of basic math, algebra, geometry or work through real practice tests together(after he has taken them) and stop and cover the concepts as you come to them. Either way you could also try this for anything he didn't remember easily on his own: Write a problem on an index card (either from basic math/algebra review or the SAT test) Write the answer maybe with some work shown as needed. I wouldn't do the harder SAT problems on cards at this point. SAT problems you can cut out and put on the cards if they are too long to write. Each session (ideally at home on his own as well) have him spend 10 minutes or more going through them. Over and over. Then back to working on review or going through a test and then make more cards. This is what I did with my daughter who struggles to remember and understand math. In about 6 months she went from getting 19's on the ACT math section(though it took her about 90 minutes to do that) to getting a 24 on the actual ACT test in September. And we didn't do any practice ACT tests during the few months leading up to it. This would be easier with a student who understands your explanations fairly quickly and remembers well. BTW go through each and every problem on every practice test even if he got it right. You will find weaknesses even doing this. Maybe he took the long way and doesn't understand the short way or maybe he made a lucky guess or even a shaky educated correct guess. llwelma gave me the card suggestion in this thread-post #16 http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/630994-where-to-discuss-math-pedagogy-and-how-to-teach-specific-concepts/. There were other good suggestions, but there are a lot of posts that are pretty specific to my situation, so I wanted to help you jump right to that one. Good luck, Kendall 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 What about Barron’s SAT math book? I have it on the self. Is it not good? Younger boy used the latest Barron’s SAT edition which library has. It should be the 28th edition as the 29th edition was just released in August 2017. He has already done all the 8 practice tests from CollegeBoard before that though and we have ran out of practice materials. https://www.amazon.com/Barrons-NEW-SAT-28th-Sat/dp/1438006497 So I would recommend printing all the 8 practice tests from CollegeBoard as the actual test is still printed. Watch him do the non calculator section and see how he got them done. Did he just guess, dawdle, think hard and could not finish, had trouble bubbling. Then watch him do the calculator section. Most questions do not need the calculator. If the calculator was used for every question,it does slow the test taker down. Read this long thread, it’s not only about the psat. The student is a junior so he has his psat scores too right? So you could see if you could tell weakness from his psat score report. His sat score report would have a breakdown too. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/619243-how-can-we-help-ds-to-be-faster-on-the-psatsat/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I have a kid making straight A's in calculus who just could not crack the Common Core PSAT to score above 680. She switched to the ACT (and to mom-tutoring rather than independent prep, but I emphasized upping her speed on the reading section) to get a 36 in math. You can't just know the math for the SAT. My kid knew the math. You must understand the test format. My DD was also the guinea pig year for the new math so there was less test prep material to choose from. You absolutely do need up to date (for March 2016 or later), SAT-specific test prep material for this test. 530 is not a "very low level." It's right at about the 50th percentile. Not outstanding but still a basic level of readiness. This student is average, not way way behind. This doesn't scream redo the entire algebra textbook to me. This says they're at a level where they can understand an SAT Math prep book without remedial work. Did the student pay for the question and answer service to see their exact mistakes? If not, start with a diagnostic test (preferably from a released SAT, as test prep books vary as to how well they match the actual test). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) I haven't used College Panda math, but Pwn the SAT wasn't off the charts difficult IMHO. If you want something simpler, try Princeton Review.I totally agree that it’s not off the charts difficult and ai have heard really good things about it, but I read somewhere (I think it was directly in the book, but I’m not certain) that the book is geared for scorers in the 650 range who are trying to get close to a perfect score. My son gave the book a try, but really needed more basic explanation and review of the SAT math vs. hints and tricks for the tippy top score. He went through the College Panda book and his score went up from a 580 to 720. It reviews and practices basics, then applies it to SAT problems. But it could also all boil down to different materials working for different people. 530 is not a bad score. The student probably just needs practice with the specific types of problems on the SAT. Edited December 16, 2017 by Jazzy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 The College Panda book looks very nicely organized, and I like that there's a separate practice book so that you don't run out of problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 The College Panda book looks very nicely organized, and I like that there's a separate practice book so that you don't run out of problems. But it’s from 2015, written for old SAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I saw the red bubble "for the new SAT" on the cover and assumed that it was OK! I just peeked at it based on the earlier recommendation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyforlatin Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 There is a new Panda math book, bought it in the summer, and it's for the new SAT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 There is a new Panda math book, bought it in the summer, and it's for the new SAT. I see hebone with tests, but for some reason just this one with workbook https://www.amazon.com/College-Pandas-SAT-Math-Advanced/dp/0989496422 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) I see hebone with tests, but for some reason just this one with workbook https://www.amazon.com/College-Pandas-SAT-Math-Advanced/dp/0989496422 This is the exact book we used. It has the lessons with examples, followed by practice problems. The solutions are in the back. We followed this up by doing the math sections from about 6 SAT tests from the College Board website. I think a student who needed additional practice could do this book also: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0989496449/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1513476642&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=college+panda+sat+math&dpPl=1&dpID=4137BD6HpsL&ref=plSrch Edited December 17, 2017 by Jazzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) If you were going to tutor a junior who scored 530 on math and made mistakes all over the place, (so no obvious area or weakness) where would you start? I would make sure if they really *are* all over the place. Like, they might be in algebra, geometry, etc, but they could still all be similar issues, like sloppiness (forgetting to write a negative sign or w/e). And, of course, ask if the student ran out of time on the test. If there's a fair number of sloppy mistakes, I'd work on techniques to combat that. If they're all conceptual mistakes though, that are all over the places (in algebra, geometry, etc), then you'd want to do a review of everything, starting at the beginning, like Maize said. Not every problem in an algebra book etc has to be done... sections the student gets can be done with only a couple of questions to review, whereas sections the student struggles with would require more work. Edited December 17, 2017 by luuknam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted December 17, 2017 Author Share Posted December 17, 2017 This is the exact book we used. It has the lessons with examples, followed by practice problems. The solutions are in the back. We followed this up by doing the math sections from about 6 SAT tests from the College Board website. I think a student who needed additional practice could do this book also: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0989496449/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1513476642&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=college+panda+sat+math&dpPl=1&dpID=4137BD6HpsL&ref=plSrch But the book I linked is dated to 2015. I am wondering if it’s still good given the redesign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) But the book I linked is dated to 2015. I am wondering if it’s still good given the redesign. To be clear - I have no clue about the new SAT vs the old SAT - I took the old old old old or so SAT in Jan 2005, the last one before the essay. If I had to retake the SAT and try to squeeze out the best possible score, I'd use the latest book. I don't think it's likely going to matter 100 points or anything, but it might matter 20 points or w/e. The only prep I did for the SAT I took was to read the test taking tips section (I don't recall if there was anything useful in there, most of it was generic test taking advice), the section on complex numbers (because those aren't taught in high school in NL), and 2 practice tests (on which I scored something like 780-800*). Knowing the math is much more important than test prep, but, if you're trying to maximize your score, you're going to want to do a *bit* of test prep, and yes, specific to the test you're taking. To be a bit more specific... basically, if the student has little experience with tests, any test prep for any test is probably going to make the student better at taking tests in general. If the student is good at taking tests, you'll really need test prep specific to the test - generic test prep (such as for a previous version) is not going to help. The gains are likely to be marginal in that case though. Even if the student has little experience with tests in general though, prep for the actual test is better than generic test prep... it's just that generic test prep wouldn't be a complete waste. E.g. one example of generic test prep is to not dwell on a problem, but to skip it and go back to it. It doesn't matter what book you use for that in order to practice that. *Disclaimer - I blew the real SAT, mostly out of carelessness. I was only applying to one state school where the average SAT score was nowhere remotely near 780, so, it didn't matter to me what score I got - I did the test in significantly less than the allotted time (which is good, because then your brain can rest between sections), didn't check my work (strategy - ime, I tend to be at least as likely to change a correct answer to a wrong answer as the other way around), and got a 720 (maybe I should've checked my work... maybe not, because of the time for brain to rest thing - the SAT is a marathon). On the other hand, I did better on the ELA parts of the test than on the practice tests, so, it all averaged out to about the same as on the practice tests. ETA: and my mistakes were also all over the place, both in ELA and in math, pretty much one mistake per section or so. Edited December 17, 2017 by luuknam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 How is the teen’s English scores for the SAT? The math questions in the SAT are rather wordy (less than AoPS but still wordy). Highlighters are not allowed but he can still underline key words in each question with his pencil. My younger boy improved on test taking speed the second time around. His English score went up as well as his math. My older boy reading speed is fast but he complained that he finished the SAT English sections just in time (no time to check) while he had a little time to spare for math sections (but too tired to check). For a junior with the usual public school course load, the 8 practice tests and the Barron’s SAT Math book is good enough. You don’t want to risk test prep burnout too especially if he is taking a few AP exams in May and the SAT again in June. What math is he taking in school this year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Why does the student not do well with Khan? That was going to be my first suggestion. Does the student know they have transcripts of many (all?) videos if the student prefers not to watch/listen? (I don’t like videos/audio myself; I prefer print.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 But the book I linked is dated to 2015. I am wondering if it’s still good given the redesign. Hmmm... You’re right. The publication date is Jan 2015. But the red label on the book says for the new SAT. We did use that exact book, though, because when I follow your link, Amazon shows I purchased it in 2017. We used it this year to prep for the Nov 2017 SAT. But I see what you mean about the publication date. There may be more recent materials available. I have not looked at Barrons, but if it is more recent it might be better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted December 17, 2017 Author Share Posted December 17, 2017 Why does the student not do well with Khan? That was going to be my first suggestion. Does the student know they have transcripts of many (all?) videos if the student prefers not to watch/listen? (I don’t like videos/audio myself; I prefer print.) I suggested that, but it seems based on the response that he needs a real person sitting with him for either motivation and/or explanation. He doesn’t seem to know how to approach studying for this test. I think his math and English scores are about the same. I have no idea what his plan is on pulling up English, but we were only asked for help on math. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Hmmm... You’re right. The publication date is Jan 2015. But the red label on the book says for the new SAT. Every time they come out with a new SAT it's the new SAT. The label on the book doesn't automatically change to say "old SAT". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.