Is MUS enough?

[mocamom]

I'm hoping y'all can chime in with your thoughts.  I have 4 children and the oldest 3 have always used Saxon math.  They didn't necessarily love it, but they all did well on their ACTs and have commented that Saxon really prepared them for their college Calculus classes.  My 12 year old son though is really struggling with math.  He seems to understand a concept when you explain it, but then he completely misses the problem when he's doing homework later that night.  I've explained fractions multiple times and he's still getting confused sometimes when multiplying or adding them.  It's the same for other type problems as well.  Clearly he hasn't mastered the basics yet.  Even though he scores greater than 85% on both his Saxon tests and homework, he doesn't understand WHAT he's doing when you question him.  My other kids never did this.  It's completely throwing me for a loop!  He's currently in Saxon 7/6 and I've thought about stopping and switching to MUS so he can visually see the concept.  He does seem to be a visual and kinesthetic learner (which I'm not used to!).  So my question is do you think MUS alone is a good math program, and does it adequately prepare them for advanced math (providing they want to take those advanced math classes in college).  Does it prepare them for the ACT well?  I've heard it wasn't a strong program before, but wondered about it now.

 

Thanks so much for your help!

[HomeAgain]

We used MUS for my oldest from Gamma to Pre-algebra.  It worked for him.  The amount of preparation it gave him for high school level math was great, and I still keep the videos/blocks around if the youngest ever wanted it.  The oldest went from MUS to AoPS, to being in dual credit and on a math team.  He's now in an engineering program and still loves math. 

 

His friend used MUS through at least Algebra.  He is also in an engineering program.

 

The visualization techniques and the breakdown of lower level math worked very well for my son.  He was able to complete most of high school math without a calculator thanks to much of what MUS taught.  However, we did find some drawbacks with the high school level math, which is why we switched after completing the lower levels.  The higher levels didn't require him to think through problems as much as he should and seemed very light.  It would have required me to supplement more than I was able.  Our best course of action for high school was to find teachers who were passionate about the subject and taught it well.

[wapiti]

The reputation of MUS for secondary math (algebra 1 and up) is different from the reputation of MUS for elementary, so perhaps it's best to consider them separately.  The secondary levels of MUS have a reputation for being lighter, less challenging, less advanced; that said, what is most important is finding the best fit for the particular student to understand concepts.

 

It sounds like there's a need to review and/or reintroduce fraction concepts.  I don't know what the best program is for fraction concepts - it may be worth searching the forum.

[forty-two]

When my dd was having fraction troubles, I added in MUS fractions - but I still stayed with our regular math program (Singapore math, in our case). Our regular program worked for everything else, so why switch entirely, kwim? But we needed something more for fractions, so why not add in MUS just for fractions - didn't mean we needed to switch to MUS for everything. If Saxon is working in general for you, then I don't think you have to switch away from it entirely just to remediate fractions, unless you are wanting a change from Saxon for other reasons, too.

 

MUS did wonders for helping dd understand fractions, though - I'm glad we did it. The fraction overlays in particular were a big help.

[EKS]

I used MUS with my son when halfway through Saxon 7/6 I realized he was confused about some key concepts.  So I gave him the MUS placement test and he placed into Beta!  We did Beta-Zeta in about six months, going quickly through what he really did know (facts, for example) and slowing down for the things he was shaky on.  By the time he was finished with Zeta he was ready for Jacobs Algebra (though looking back on it, I think that a year with Derek Owens prealgebra would have been good for him).

 

I would not use the upper levels of MUS based on what I've seen of the geometry materials. 

 

 

[Lisa]

We have used MUS from K to Pre-calculus. I have two kids in college and MUS prepared them well for college. I love MUS and wish I was taught math the way Steve Demme of MUS teaches math. I would not say MUS is light at all. My kids love math and have done well in math.  I highly recommend it.

[PeterPan]

My dd's ACT math scores went up *significantly* when we switched her over to MUS her last couple years. 

 

Really, your kid is who he is. Light is so relative. What is light to your kid might be wicked brain-taxing and hard to mine. Oh well. Remember too, on the ACT that composite is getting them their scholarship, not the single math score. So even though my dd had a spread in scores, her composite was still high enough to get her top tier scholarships everywhere she applied. Without MUS, she would NOT have had that jump. 

 

You only need the math to be good enough for the dc. I can tell you plenty of reasons why it might not be good enough for someone else's dc, but reality is it was good enough for my dd. It was within reach, got done when I was bogged down with a difficult child with autism, and was something she could understand. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[PentecostalMom]

I'm hoping y'all can chime in with your thoughts. I have 4 children and the oldest 3 have always used Saxon math. They didn't necessarily love it, but they all did well on their ACTs and have commented that Saxon really prepared them for their college Calculus classes. My 12 year old son though is really struggling with math. He seems to understand a concept when you explain it, but then he completely misses the problem when he's doing homework later that night. I've explained fractions multiple times and he's still getting confused sometimes when multiplying or adding them. It's the same for other type problems as well. Clearly he hasn't mastered the basics yet. Even though he scores greater than 85% on both his Saxon tests and homework, he doesn't understand WHAT he's doing when you question him. My other kids never did this. It's completely throwing me for a loop! He's currently in Saxon 7/6 and I've thought about stopping and switching to MUS so he can visually see the concept. He does seem to be a visual and kinesthetic learner (which I'm not used to!). So my question is do you think MUS alone is a good math program, and does it adequately prepare them for advanced math (providing they want to take those advanced math classes in college). Does it prepare them for the ACT well? I've heard it wasn't a strong program before, but wondered about it now.

 

Thanks so much for your help!

I don’t think struggling with a single math concept is enough reason to switch programs. Have you looked at Key to Fractions? You can also just stop with Saxon for a few days and focus on learning fractions, working with manipulatives and real-life applications like cutting and serving pizza, cooking, and measurements.

 

Also, are you doing ALL of Saxon? Some try to skip the drill sheets, or do odd problems or evens problem only. These modifications detract from the way the program is designed. We have used and are still using Saxon. Yes, they do ALL problems the drill sheets. We don’t skip. It seems redundant some days, but the proof is in the pudding!

 

ETA: I also have two children using MUS. I am not trying to discourage you from that. I am simply saying that switching programs sometimes causes more complications instead of helping. We use different things for different learning styles.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited November 6, 2017 by PentecostalMom

[Bambam]

I'll second the advice to stop and use Key to Fractions to thoroughly learn fractions and then return to Saxon. 

[Crimson Wife]

I would recommend the Right Start Fractions kit.

[mocamom]

Thank you so much for your help!!  I'll be honest, it never occurred to me to stop, do some MUS, and then restart.  I don't know why.  You would think after 3 older kids, I'd have the hang of this by now!!  I have the placement tests for MUS so I think we will test him on that and see where he is.  I also am looking at Keys as well.  My older daughter needed Keys for some reinforcement, but it was more of a supplement for her rather than a different way of explaining it.  Zach is my only hands on learner and I'll admit that I just don't function that way, so I'm learning how to help him learn the best!

[Lisa]

Thank you so much for your help!!  I'll be honest, it never occurred to me to stop, do some MUS, and then restart.  I don't know why.  You would think after 3 older kids, I'd have the hang of this by now!!  I have the placement tests for MUS so I think we will test him on that and see where he is.  I also am looking at Keys as well.  My older daughter needed Keys for some reinforcement, but it was more of a supplement for her rather than a different way of explaining it.  Zach is my only hands on learner and I'll admit that I just don't function that way, so I'm learning how to help him learn the best!

I have used Keys to... as a supplement when a child was struggling with fractions.  It was very helpful. I continued to use MUS at the time. 

[PeterPan]

Family Math has an upper level book. It would give you some more hands-on, contextualized ways to explore concepts. Then go to your more abstract bookwork.

[MerryAtHope]

 Even though he scores greater than 85% on both his Saxon tests and homework, he doesn't understand WHAT he's doing when you question him.  

 

We used MUS for Pre-alg through Alg 2 for one, and through Pre-calc for the other. Both had solid ACT scores and neither has had any trouble with college math. I'm very happy with MUS and would use it again. In my mind, using a program that helps your student understand what he's doing (which MUS tends to excel at) is more important than whether it's the most rigorous program out there. I do like the idea of using it for a time to help him get over this wall he's having with Saxon. Then you can decide whether to go back to Saxon or to continue with MUS. I'm glad I didn't let the naysayers dissuade me from trying MUS though.

[Guest2]

I love Math U See Epsilon for fraction study. Even my kids who didn't do much Math U See liked this. ( We typically do Math U See for early elementary learning math facts.) My kinesthetic learners do much better on a huge whiteboard doing one problem at a time as well.

 

I noticed that there is a gap of time between when you go over a lesson and he does it. Is there any way he could do the lesson right after you teach it? That might be all he needs.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Silver Brook

[....]

In my mind, using a program that helps your student understand what he's doing (which MUS tends to excel at) is more important than whether it's the most rigorous program out there. 

 

Yep, don't make the same math mistakes I made!  I should've used MUS all along with ds14, who is a visual-spatial learner.  I didn't use it, because it has a reputation of not being very rigorous.  He's using their Algebra 1 and it's been a great fit for him.  I regret not using MUS all along with that kid.   

[coralloyd]

^{I was feeling the pressure to switch from MUS, for my son, since he loves math and I can see him heading into a math field. And then it hit me. Why am I switching from a program that has worked great for not only him but his sisters? Yes, his sisters are not as in love with math as he is, but they are very competent in it. I actually purchased another curriculum for him. After looking at it, I am convinced that MUS is enough. I will be adding some fun supplements for him, but it has been great so far for us. I spoke to my dd15's tutor about what she thought of MUS ( I got her a tutor for the upper math levels because I was not able to help her the way I wanted to when she had questions.) She said it was a solid program and saw no issues with the content covered. I choose to take the word of someone that knows what they are talking about and has been working with dd from Algebra to Pre-Cal. I believe a lot of the naysayers are people that have not actually tried MUS all the way through.}

Edited November 6, 2017 by coralloyd

[nixpix5]

^{I was feeling the pressure to switch from MUS, for my son, since he loves math and I can see him heading into a math field. And then it hit me. Why am I switching from a program that has worked great for not only him but his sisters? Yes, his sisters are not as in love with math as he is, but they are very competent in it. I actually purchased another curriculum for him. After looking at it, I am convinced that MUS is enough. I will be adding some fun supplements for him, but it has been great so far for us. I spoke to my dd15's tutor about what she thought of MUS ( I got her a tutor for the upper math levels because I was not able to help her the way I wanted to when she had questions.) She said it was a solid program and saw no issues with the content covered. I choose to take the word of someone that knows what they are talking about and has been working with dd from Algebra to Pre-Cal. I believe a lot of the naysayers are people that have not actually tried MUS all the way through.}

There is also a difference between the older books and the newer ones. I kept hearing MUS didn't have enough story problems and I was so confused since my son does them every single day in MUS. I looked at an older book and it was quite different. I love hearing about success with MUS. My son is doing wonderfully with it and I want to use it all the way through.