Singapore grade 3

[Ausmumof3]

And a dd who is just not getting it...

 

I'm feeling pretty frustrated with my dd and maths right now. I'm trying not to let that spill over into frustration with her but it's hard.

 

She is just not getting certain concepts that I've explained over and over again on so many ways. Estimation is one problem area and long division is another. Long division is somewhat understandable as its a pretty challenging concept that Singapore hits way early. I wish they gave the kids a bit longer mastering times tables first.

 

However stuff like estimating seems relatively simple. But if I ask her to round something like 220 to the nearest 100 she will come up with 100 not 200.

 

I don't really know exactly what I'm asking. Mostly I'm just frustrated. Last year in one of those aptitude tests she scored on the 96th percentile for her age. But it's like she gets stuck on certain stuff and I'm wondering whether to put her back a grade.

[Noreen Claire]

Can you leave the 3A book and go on to the 3B book for a while? Come back at the estimating and long division in a few weeks/months, when she might be more ready to handle them?

[Ausmumof3]

Yeah. We actually have gone right through the 3A book but not finished every lesson because the lessons were taking so so long.

 

So maybe we'll call it quits for now, take our school holiday break and just go onto 3B and hopefully things will make more sense then.

[Sneezyone]

We just slowed down. We did't skip anything. I figured if it takes a long time so be it. Who cares? We broke it into manageable chunks and just allowed more time. DS had no trouble with the times tables but we did the math minute exercises from the HIG and some iPad games to solidify them. Have you included those sorts of activities to break things up and add variety? The mechanics of division were tough for DS but time is taking care of that too.  Because we slowed down, DS won't finish 3B until the end of this month but, meh, I care more that he gets this stuff down.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Sneezyone

[EKS]

What we did for long division was to move on but do one problem per day *for months*.

 

For the estimation, I'd do some scaffolding.  With the example you gave--round 220 to the nearest hundred--you could do it in a few different ways.  For example, you could say "Is 220 closer to 200 or 300?"  Presumably, she would say 200.  Then you would say, "Then round 220 to the nearest hundred" (don't say or write "nearest 100" or "nearest one hundred").  Do this a few times each day until she gets it.  Then once she is able to round reliably, have her do estimation problems mentally.  

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

What we did for long division was to move on but do one problem per day *for months*.

 

For the estimation, I'd do some scaffolding. With the example you gave--round 220 to the nearest hundred--you could do it in a few different ways. For example, you could say "Is 220 closer to 200 or 300?" Presumably, she would say 200. Then you would say, "Then round 220 to the nearest hundred" (don't say or write "nearest 100" or "nearest one hundred"). Do this a few times each day until she gets it. Then once she is able to round reliably, have her do estimation problems mentally.

Yep that makes sense and is generally what I do after getting the wrong answer. I guess maybe I'm expecting too much:.. I want to be able to do the manual and teachers guide and have her go on with the workbook while I work with my five year old but I'm clearly being unrealistic at this stage.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

We're in 3a.  

 

I have found estimating to be difficult for both my kids who have gotten that far.  Some tricks we've used:

 

-Someone posted here about drawing a hill.  In your example, the left side of the hill would be 200, the right side would be 300.  Ask child what the top of the hill would be (250).  Tell them that if the car can get that far, it will be able to coast down to 300.  Otherwise, it will roll back to 200.  

- At the beginning of a "round to the nearest hundred" lesson, draw out a hundreds timeline, so only 0, 100, 200, 300... would be marked.  First have the child point to where on the number line the particular number is located, so 220 would be located between the 200 and 300.  Then go from there to the hill example.  Make number lines for each of the possible "round to the nearest _____" types (10, 100, 1000...).  

- Generally, the rounding problem seems to come down to being able to identify which two numbers are the possible answers, and then which one is the correct of the two.  Treat it as two separate skills and build them one at a time.  

 

The harder problems are the ones like "172 divided by 8", where the child is supposed to magically know to do 160 divided by 8.  We do these problems, but we do them together.  I've found my older child has naturally come to understand these just be moving through the math curriculum, even though they were difficult at the time.  

 

For long division, make sure you do it many times with side-by-side manipulatives and paper.  We used the base ten cards from right start for this.  You can print off some for free (search for base 10 printables), you can use base 10 blocks if you have them, or cuisinaire rods and hundreds flats.  

 

Here is the procedure for manipulatives.  

 

647 div by 4

 

Create four "zones" on a white board or table.  These are the four groups you are making out of the 647 total things you have.  Ask them how they could do it.  One option would be to pick up four a time and place one in each zone, over and over (this is the equivalent of counting by 4s to 647.).  Point out how long that would take, then show them the following "shortcuts".

a.  Pick up the 6 hundreds flats.  Ask the child to divide them amongst the 4 zones.  Child will place one in each zone, with two left in her hand.  Show her on the long division problem that she place ONE (write in above the 6 in the quotient area), and that she used up FOUR (write it below the 6).  Ask how many she has left (2).  Draw the subtraction bar under your four and show there are two remaining.  

b.  Now tell her you need to break up those hundred flats into ten rods.  Change them at the bank for 20 ten rods.  Ask if there are any other tens (there are 4 other ten rods).  Now ask how many tens she has altogether (24).  Show her the step of "bringing down" the four to be next to the 2 in the written problem.  Show her those represent 24 TENS, because the answer to how many go into each zone is going to be written in the tens place for the quotient.  

c.  Now, divide up the 24 tens into the four zones (6 each).  Write SIX in the tens place in the quotient.  Show that is used up 24 of the tens she had by writing it below the 24.  Ask how many she has left (zero), do the subtraction in the problem.  

d.  She still has 7 ones left out, show her to bring down the 7.  Ask her to divide them up (1 per zone).  Write the 1 in the ones place, she she used up four, subtract to show 3 left.  Are there any other blocks out?  No?  Then she is done and those 3 are a remainder.   

 

We do this soooooo many times.  But long division is just too easy to mess up if you don't know WHY you are doing it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nixpix5]

For estimating I would always draw a number line to show proximity. Only thing that worked for DS

[HomeAgain]

For rounding numbers the show Odd Squad showed this brilliantly.  They had a picture of a hill with a meatball on it and you had to know which way it would roll down.  The visual made it click immediately in my kid's head.  In his work, we drew the hill for a while with three numbers on it: the beginning, end, and midway. 

 

https://www.pbslearningmedia.org/resource/65e35b34-1163-4d70-82bc-cf88aac814c3/meatball-mountain-odd-squad/#.WVZ9--mQy00

[EKS]

Yep that makes sense and is generally what I do after getting the wrong answer. I guess maybe I'm expecting too much:.. I want to be able to do the manual and teachers guide and have her go on with the workbook while I work with my five year old but I'm clearly being unrealistic at this stage.

 

You can do those things too--just tweak your approach for the things she needs extra input on, and don't have her work independently on a topic until she is able to reliably do whatever it is with you.

[letsplaymath]

When we used Singapore math, I found the A levels tended to be heavy with arithmetic calculation, which made them hard slogging, while the B levels often had more interesting topics and went quicker. We often worked in more than one place at a time, to balance the work level. A little of this, a little of that.

 

With the really difficult topics, we let them sit for a few weeks or a few months. They were often easier after a break when we came back to them fresh.

 

And you might find my Cookie Factory Guide to Long Division helpful.

[alisha]

My son struggled with both those topics as well. What helped was watching the videos at mathantics.com. There is one on estimating and one on long division. It helped with explaining the why as well as the process.

[EKS]

When we used Singapore math, I found the A levels tended to be heavy with arithmetic calculation, which made them hard slogging, while the B levels often had more interesting topics and went quicker. We often worked in more than one place at a time, to balance the work level. A little of this, a little of that.

 

The problem with this approach is that Singapore math is very carefully sequenced.

[letsplaymath]

The problem with this approach is that Singapore math is very carefully sequenced.

 

No, not a problem at all. Of course, you have to skip the review questions that cover topics you haven't covered. But we could proceed with graphs, for instance, or fractions, or volume, or geometry. There are lots of topics that do not require long division.

 

The main thing to remember with any curriculum is that we are the master and it is the servant. We can use it in whatever manner fits our family and best helps our children enjoy learning. And for my family, that meant never letting ourselves get bogged down with repetitive arithmetic.

[Heathermomster]

Have you seen this video for Singapore long division?

 

 

 

The Odd Squad show that covered estimation was excellent.

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

No, not a problem at all. Of course, you have to skip the review questions that cover topics you haven't covered. But we could proceed with graphs, for instance, or fractions, or volume, or geometry. There are lots of topics that do not require long division.

 

The main thing to remember with any curriculum is that we are the master and it is the servant. We can use it in whatever manner fits our family and best helps our children enjoy learning. And for my family, that meant never letting ourselves get bogged down with repetitive arithmetic.

 

 

I totally agree.  If we hit a rough patch, we continue doing it gently, bit by bit, but we also jump ahead and do a geometry or graphs chapter just to keep moving through the material.  

 

Just right now we're in 3A and my dd is struggling with the word problems in the 7,8,9 times tables chapters.  But she is still able to do the actual simple ___x___=? problems, so we are doing those while still gently plugging away at the word problems using buddy math.  

[Roadrunner]

The only way long division made sense to one of my kids was partial quotients method used by Beast. His understanding was instantaneous, because he said that's the way he does math in his head. It's worth a try. He never did get SM long division.