A couple of "Maybe buying a pop-up camper" questions

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

We're tentatively thinking about buying a pop-up camper that my parents' neighbors (I know them, grew up next door and went to HS with their daughter) are selling. 

 

First, my van's towing capacity is 3500 lbs, and the camper is approximately 3200. Is that too close for comfort? I read one article that said you should get a camper that's well below your towing capacity, but I'm not sure how far below is low enough. The van's max cargo load is 1200 pounds, so I'm thinking that gear and people would be stowed in the car and the car would only be towing the camper.

 

Second, what else should I be asking/looking for? Basically, we want to camp more but would really love not to sleep in a tent. I'd be happy cooking inside or out, we don't need AC or heat (we're just fair weather campers for the moment!), we probably won't be going very rough until we get better at camping (or maybe never), etc., so I'm not looking for a mini hotel. Mainly we want a place to sleep and stay out of the rain if necessary. 

 

I'd love to hear any great advice you have.

 

Thanks!

[poppy]

We have a pop up and we load it up with kitchen gear and chairs and so forth - but - if you leave it empty , then the weight should be fine.

 

You will need an electronic brake sensor . If your vehicle is wired for towing you are probably all set. I have a 1500 lb popup (in other words, small) and I would not tow it without brakes and turn signals set up.

 

 

With our popup, we typically go to state parks and select sites that are 'tent / popup' (meaning no hookups). I really prefer these sites because they're more secluded and woody and , if we get lucky , waterfront . Typically they have length limits ... the biggest accommodate a 35' popup. You might have a similar preference based on your description! So we don't get water or power. We do have lights from a battery unit. Lights , a stove, off the ground = awesome. OH but if your popup has a toilet I don't know if you could go without hookups. Out doesn't .

[Guest]

We had a very simple one growing up.  I mean, I don't even know if they make them this simple anymore.  No hookup.  But it was a lot more fun to us than the tents were, easier to set up and tear down, warmer and dryer for most of the times we used it.  But it was very small and basically a tent in a box on wheels.  No built in stove or fridge.  My parents moved up to a small trailer and I never liked that as much.  

[Nan in Mass]

We love our pop-up. It is yhe best of both worlds.

 

Just remember that your turning radius is biggish and backing is hard (because of the short hitch). Deadend streets can be a problem.

 

When you are first getting used to it, look for pull through sites and pull through in the direction of any one way streets.

 

Don't forget to put your step up.

 

If you have an awning, take it down if it is windy.

 

Make sure you open the top vent and turn on the fan as well as crack a window if you are using a stove.

 

Battery powered fans are nice if it is hot.

 

We mostly use the camp toilets rather than deal with our portapotty.

 

A few 5 gallon buckets are useful for stools, reaching the roof, wet bathing suits, boots, greywater, etc.

 

A bit of carpeting outside the door keeps the dirt down.

 

Wrap your mugs in the dish towel and put them in yhe dish pan for travel. Put rags, pot holders, wash cloths, or something between any stacked pots to reduce wear. Everything rattles badly when you are driving.

 

Bring skewers if you want somemores.

 

Remember that you have to buy firewood in the campground and not take it with you because diseases and pests get spread when you move firewood around.

 

A plastic table cloth and clips makes the picnic table cleaner.

 

You will probably need a piece of rope to make a laundry line to hang wet towels on.

 

Sea breeze cleanser takes off sunscreen at the end of the day. A little seabreeze, a wet washcloth, and some powder can make going to bed nicer.

 

Bring sheets for when it is too hot for sleeping bags.

 

Nan

[meena]

That's pretty close on towing capacity vs. camper size. Are you going to be towing in fairly flat areas? If so, it's probably not a big deal. If you're planning on traveling where there are changes in grade that will put strain on your transmission anyway, I'd be concerned. We have a smaller SUV and a larger popup and ended up getting a transmission cooler installed in our car to increase tow capacity. I'm not sure if that's an option for your vehicle, but it might be worth looking into. 

 

Also, as mentioned above, you definitely want to get an electronic brake sensor. It makes a huge difference.

 

When we first started looking for a camper, I read a bunch of threads on PopUpPortal to get an idea of what it was like to use one, what kinds of issues they have, model-specific tips, etc. There are a lot of hardcore campers on there, so I took a lot of what I read with a grain of salt but learned quite a bit.

[gardenmom5]

I just got off a site with a very long article about how the specific 2015 highlander the buyer had is claimed to be able to tow 5,000... . uhuh.  not even a 4,000 lb trailer on a level road.   and this was thoroughly investigated with much back and forth with toyota holding to their bunch of bull line.  he ended up selling a brand new trailer at a loss.

 

but one thing the guy who wrote the article said - many companies claim tow-ratings their car can't meet.   so, before you plonk down for a 3,200 lb trailer with a van that has a 3,500 lb rating - be sure it can actually tow it.

[CadenceSophia]

That seems really heavy. We had to tow a trailer that was close to 3000 lbs and it was not very fun. Actually it was terrifying and admittedly rather stupid, but I doubt you will be taking your pop up over the Canadian Rockies in the snow. Still if by van you mean minivan, I would think that is too heavy unless you are only planning to travel on flat land locally.

[Nan in Mass]

My husband says our biggish popup was 1600lbs unloaded, that yours is really heavy and he wonders why, and you should ask your mechanic whether towing it with your van will work but he suspects not.

[Carrie12345]

As someone who's been researching the same thing, double check you gross trailer weight.  My Grand Caravan, with 7 people and (basic) luggage, takes us down to just 3,000lbs towing.  I'm sure camping gear reduces it further.  The combination of dangerous driving and risk of ruining the car is just too great.  So now we're back to considering tenting or waiting for dh to get a heavy duty truck with which to pull a travel trailer.  Because upgrading my van to a Suburban is just a pipe dream!

Edited June 14, 2017 by Carrie12345

[Pawz4me]

IMO the best question isn't "how much can my vehicle tow" but is "how much weight can my vehicle stop quickly and safely."

 

A steady, careful driver on flat or mostly flat roads can probably tow more than their vehicle claims w/o causing any damage to the vehicle. But stopping is the real issue. Not being able to stop risks a LOT more than damaging your vehicle's transmission or other parts.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

We bought a PUP last summer and I have joined a couple of groups on FB to gain knowledge and see what others are doing. Your question is definitely in the Top 5 most frequently asked questions. If you're on FB try these pages: Pop Up Camper Owners, Pop Up Modifications. This question has been discussed multiple times this month alone.

 

What year is the Pup? Manufacturer? What are your plans for camping? Will you be taking additional things like bikes or kayaks? Will you be camping at sites with electric and water hookups or boondocking (taking your own water and using either batteries for the lights./AC)? Will you be cooking in the camper or taking items to create an outdoor kitchen? Every item you place in the camper adds weight and that weight adds up. Is your tow vehicle large enough to haul all of your gear and people too?

After we bought our PUP (12 foot 1994 Jayco Eagle towed with a 2001 Ford F150) I pay more attention to the PUPs on the road. My philosophy has become "Just because you can doesn't mean you should." I've seen some rig set ups that make you shake your head and wonder what the heck people are thinking. For instance, a minivan loaded down with a huge high wall PUP with bikes stored on the roof of the PUP. The van itself was loaded to the hilt with people and gear. Coolers and bags mounted on the roof, bags packed so high in the rear there is no way the driver could see out the rear window. The rear end of the van was sitting at an angle and scraped the road when going over bumps. We wanted to get as far away from that rolling mess as quickly as possible.

 

 

 

 

[historically accurate]

We wouldn't personally tow a pop-up that close to towing capacity. Our former pop-up had a slide out dinette area and was around 3000 lbs; we towed with a van that could tow 5700 lbs. It was a good match; we sold it when we switched cars (and the new one could only tow 3500 lbs).

 

Technically, you should be fine if you are in a flat area, but we personally wouldn't risk it.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

IMO the best question isn't "how much can my vehicle tow" but is "how much weight can my vehicle stop quickly and safely."

 

A steady, careful driver on flat or mostly flat roads can probably tow more than their vehicle claims w/o causing any damage to the vehicle. But stopping is the real issue. Not being able to stop risks a LOT more than damaging your vehicle's transmission or other parts.

 

It's not just about damaging the vehicle. There are other people on the road and a vehicle that is towing something that exceeds its towing capacity is putting those people at risk. What happens if a tire pops? What happens in strong winds and the camper sways or becomes unstable? What about traveling on wet roads? A vehicle that is hauling a trailer over its towing capacity is not going to handle as well as it would when the load is below the limit.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

The 'recommended' amount below towing capacity is 20%.  Here's a link that you might find useful: http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-trailer-weight-tt.shtml

[Pawz4me]

It's not just about damaging the vehicle. There are other people on the road and a vehicle that is towing something that exceeds its towing capacity is putting those people at risk. What happens if a tire pops? What happens in strong winds and the camper sways or becomes unstable? What about traveling on wet roads? A vehicle that is hauling a trailer over its towing capacity is not going to handle as well as it would when the load is below the limit.

 

I think you misinterpreted my post, or at least the intent. There's not a vehicle on the road that will be able to safely stop (IMO) a trailer that is at or near that vehicle's towing capacity. My point was that the safe thing to do is to look for something significantly under the vehicle's capacity. Do that and the OP shouldn't have issues with "the tail wagging the dog." Although that's not always true even well within weight limits. Sometimes an add on (or upgraded) anti-sway bar or hitch is needed for optimal handling.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Pawz4me

[skimomma]

That does seem really heavy for a PUP.  I agree with others that you want to go well below towing capacity.  I would also research your specific van as some "tow capacities" are much different than their real capacities.  In some cases they are under rated.

 

We have an old bare-bones PUP and love it.  It does not have a bathroom and we removed the sink and all plumbing.  We never used the sink and we were trying to bring our weight down because we are right up against our tow rating.  Our empty-weight is 1200 and our tow capacity is 1500.  In our case, our car really is capable of towing significantly more than 1500, not that I would recommend it.  Same vehicle is rated much higher in other countries.  With the removal of the sink (and cabinet) but adding our stored gear, we are right at 1500.  We only drive on relatively-flat roads and try to avoid interstates or other high-speed situations.  We have slightly less braking but no other issues towing.  We have been towing this trailer with this PUP for 12 years.  You can take your loaded PUP to a transfer station to weigh it.  We have also found some PUPs actually weigh more than listed.  We have wanted to replace ours for years but cannot find one that weighs less.

 

As far as recommendations, obviously you want to know if it goes up and down easily, that the canvas is not damaged and not terribly mildewy, and that all features work.  One thing that I would really REALLY like in ours is a 3-way fridge.  I don't mind roughing it in every other way but truly hate fishing dinner out of four days worth of cooler water.  Our PUP does not have a fridge at all but even some that do are electric only which is limiting in places with no hook-ups or while you are in transit.  A 3-way would be a dream.  

 

At the weight your are talking, it sounds like more PUP than you need.  Unless it is a steal, you might want to seek something lighter.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Thank you all, this is exactly what I was needing to hear. I'll check out the links and discuss with DH. I definitely don't want to ruin my van, though, and I certainly don't want to put anyone at risk on the road, so it sounds like this isn't going to be the opportunity for us. I appreciate all the info and will keep researching instead!

[gardenmom5]

IMO the best question isn't "how much can my vehicle tow" but is "how much weight can my vehicle stop quickly and safely."

 

A steady, careful driver on flat or mostly flat roads can probably tow more than their vehicle claims w/o causing any damage to the vehicle. But stopping is the real issue. Not being able to stop risks a LOT more than damaging your vehicle's transmission or other parts.

 

before you even get to stopping - you have to actually be able to get enough power from your engine to actually pull it.  if you are pulling too much weight - you risk burning up your transmission or your engine.