Listing 8th grade specialty credits on transcript

[bluebonnetgirl]

For a student who is aiming for an art, theater, or film degree in college, would it be good or not to list specific advanced art classes taken in 8th grade?

 

For instance my son is finishing up his 8th grade year and will have completed these by the summer of his 8th grade year:

 

Art I - a high school course taught by a professional teacher at a local homeschooling outsource center - a full year course - worth 1 Fine Art credit (plus private drawing lessons)

 

Animation I - through the www.animcourse.com - taken in spring semester of 8th grade year - worth 1/2 credit of Animation, according to the provider

 

Drama - apx. 60 hours toward acting in a local major production in the spring 2017 (spring of 8th grade year) - apx 1/2 credit of Theater.

 

Film camp - apx. 150 hours of a summer film camp that is a serious film camp with professional guidance; students work collaboratively over 3 intense weeks writing, acting, and editing a film - apx. 1 credit of Film Production

 

Thank you for your thoughts.

Edited April 1, 2017 by bluebonnetgirl

[Kassia]

I would definitely include the art since it is a high school course.  I don't think I would with the others.  

[bluebonnetgirl]

The Animation class and the Film camp are high school level for sure. As well as the Art I class.

Edited April 1, 2017 by bluebonnetgirl

[Lori D.]

Congrats on the high level of achievement and terrific experiences! :)

 

However, no, I would not count these on the high school transcript. Typically only Math (Algebra 1 and above), Science (Biology and above), and Foreign Language (of high school level, when the student continues with the next levels when in high school) are "brought up" from middle school onto the high school transcript.

 

Several reasons for this:

 

1. Only these credits easily show advancing levels of rigor.

2. Transcripts are largely for college admission, and colleges frequently only accept credits completed in the 4 years just prior to admission (so, grades 9-12 of high school).

3. English, Humanities, Fine Arts, and Elective credits are much more difficult to show that they ARE of high school level, and even more difficult to show continuing progression and increasing rigor, in the way that the Math, Science, and Foreign Language can be documented. As a result, it can look like you are "padding" the transcript" with these credits (yes, even when done with professionals and reputable options, as you listed). As a result, these types of credits are rarely "brought up" from middle school, unless they are college-level dual enrollment/dual credit courses.

 

Since your student is planning on a future college degree in the Arts, your student will likely be taking lots of Fine Arts credits through all of the years of high school, and they will likely be at a higher level of rigor due to your student's early start in Fine Arts in middle school. Since your student's high school Fine Arts courses will be at an advanced level of rigor -- let those future advanced courses shine on the transcript. :)

 

One place these 8th grade experiences can be acknowledged is on an extracurriculars list, or as part of a college admission essay or scholarship essay, to show that the student has had an early/long interest in the Fine Arts. Example:

 

"I have had a long interest in the performing and visual arts, as even in middle school I took Art and Animation classes, and participated in a major production of __(name of play for the theater experience)__, as well as attending the __(name of professional Film Camp)_, in which I participated as part of a team in the writing, filming, and editing of a short film over 3 weeks. I built onto these experiences in high school in a variety of ways, including __(launch into detailed highlighting of all the fantastic high school experiences, extracurriculars, and courses)__."

 

 

Not at ALL trying to minimize the quality or experience DS gained this year, but it sounds like he plans to continue in this field, and he will continue to improve and advance and have 4 full years to show on his transcript and extracurriculars list. And, by 12th grade, he will definitely want to spotlight his most recent and most rigorous experiences and coursework, which likely means these 8th grade experiences will not need to be included in his records.

 

BEST of luck to DS in his future Fine Arts endeavors, and to you in the administrative aspect of homeschooling high school. :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Lori D.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I have a student who was doing high school level work in most categories as an 8th grader.  He was in the same coop classes as his 9th grade brother, and did most of the same subjects at home.

 

However, as far as the transcript went, I handled it the same way that Lori D outlined.  I put algebra and Latin 1 on the transcript, but not physics, English or history.  He still did 4 credits of math, history, English and science during high school.  

 

The benefit for him of doing high school work in 8th grade was that he was working at a high level of ability mid way through high school.  It sounds like your ds would have a robust portfolio that included his high school years, without pulling from 8th grade.

 

Having said that, anything that is done the summer between 8th and 9th grade IS typically counted as done in 9th grade.  So camps and academics that summer would not be something anyone would question.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

One other example.  DS 1 did a graphic arts class in coop in 8th grade.  I did not include that on his transcript either, not only because it was during 8th grade, but because I didn't think the hours spent on the course and the level of grading really rose to high school level.

[EKS]

I would put Art I and Animation I on the transcript, and in your course descriptions note that the *providers* say that they are high school level courses.  The others I would use as extracurriculars.  If colleges don't like it, they can exclude those courses in their thinking about your son.  I listed math, English, geography, and chemistry from 8th grade on my son's transcript--which went against the "don't give credit for anything except math and foreign language taken in middle school" wisdom given here.  He got into just about every (reasonably selective) college he applied to.

 

One thing that is interesting to note--WA (and maybe other states as well) define "high school" as beginning the day after 8th grade ends.  

[Lori D.]

...anything that is done the summer between 8th and 9th grade IS typically counted as done in 9th grade.  So camps and academics that summer would not be something anyone would question.

:iagree:

 

 

And I personally would count summer film camp (or other summer experience) as an extracurricular, so it doesn't get buried as  "0.5 credit = Film Production" on a transcript. Instead, on an extracurriculars list, you get to highlight his special contributions, leadership, and focus on what he got out of the experience.   :w00t:

 

On a transcript, it's just going to be 0.5 credit on a list with other Fine Arts credits.

 

Make that puppy shine!  ;)

[bluebonnetgirl]

N/m

Edited April 1, 2017 by bluebonnetgirl

[bluebonnetgirl]

The summer film camp is kind of a big deal. He is flying out of state for this experience and it is a selective camp (only 15 selected) with professionals teaching. The hours will easily add up to 150 hours, which is 1 credit right?

 

So list this as a credit in film production or not? It will occur in July 2017, the summer right before 9th grade.

 

I wish y'all agreed about what to include or not include for an aspiring art/film/theater major. So much gray area.

Edited April 1, 2017 by bluebonnetgirl

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The summer film camp is kind of a big deal. He is flying out of state for this experience and it is a selective camp (only 15 selected) with professionals teaching. The hours will easily add up to 150 hours, which is 1 credit right?

 

So list this as a credit in film production or not? It will occur in July 2017, the summer right before 9th grade.

 

I wish y'all agreed about what to include or not include for an aspiring art/film/theater major. So much gray area.

 

Does the summer film camp grant academic credit to all participants?  For example, if it were associated with a college.

 

Is there a reason you have to decide right now if it goes on the transcript?  Are you going to reduce the amount of academic work he does in 9th grade depending on what you decide?

 

I would probably leave it as an amazing, big deal elective.  The kind of thing that really stands out on his activities list.  It can be something you address in your school profile and/or counselor recommendation.  It doesn't have to be on his transcript to be something that gets noticed.  

 

I don't have personal experience, but I would think for an aspiring art/film/theater major, what will matter most is the portfolio of work, rather than the academic credit.

[Kassia]

My sons attended public school and all started high school English in 8th grade.  It was listed on their high school transcript as English 1 so I am doing the same with dd since we did high school English in 8th grade (Oak Meadow's Hero's Journey).  

 

ETA:  Our school district also offers a high school Physical Science class in 8th grade that is listed on the transcript as a high school class taken early.  Dd took a high school level physical science course at home in 8th grade and I was planning on counting that as an early high school class.  Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't?  

Edited April 2, 2017 by Erica H

[RootAnn]

I agree with Lori D & the others who said not to list these on the transcript as classes. The camp would be on an list of ECs.

 

ETA:  Our school district also offers a high school Physical Science class in 8th grade that is listed on the transcript as a high school class taken early.  Dd took a high school level physical science course at home in 8th grade and I was planning on counting that as an early high school class.  Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't?  

 

In many states & schools, physical science is not considered a high school level science and is typically done in 8th grade. It is, of course, up to you if you want to list it. Science classes are considered one of the few things that are typically included as being brought up from middle school, as was previously indicated. 

[Lori D.]

The summer film camp is kind of a big deal. He is flying out of state for this experience and it is a selective camp (only 15 selected) with professionals teaching. The hours will easily add up to 150 hours, which is 1 credit right?

 

So list this as a credit in film production or not? It will occur in July 2017, the summer right before 9th grade.

 

I wish y'all agreed about what to include or not include for an aspiring art/film/theater major. So much gray area.

 

In the end, it's your homeschool, your call. :)

 

I am of the same mind as Sebastian... Is there any reason you *need* to declare right now? If not, then keep good records and make the call further down the line, when it will most likely be more clear to you. :) It's also hard sometimes at this stage to NOT want to count everything as a credit just because someone says you can... It's only later on, along about 11th or 12th grade when you have stacks of credits and extracurriculars that you realize it's okay to consider letting go of putting absolutely everything on the transcript. ;) (It's a lot like a job application, and putting all of your fabulous experiences and leadership from the last ten years, when really, all the employer wants to know about -- or even is only going to LOOK at -- is the 2 or 3 most recent years... ;) )

 

Think in terms of the big picture, and how will the transcript look to an outsider (i.e., college admissions). How do these opportunities earned in 8th grade, stack up to later credits and experiences? What makes these earlier 8th grade experiences stand out and shine the best for DS -- as a credit, or an extracurricular? What else is on the transcript for comparison? -- maybe by 12th grade, DS will be doing all dual enrollment for his Fine Arts and will have earned an Associate's degree, or most of the credits towards an Associate's by that time -- so college credits on his transcript will look most impressive, and the being invited to fly out to a special film program will look much more impressive as a special extracurricular...

 

Again, I really think you'll be able to make the best decision later on, as DS's high school experience unfolds...

 

And, congrats on the special invitation to the Film Summer Camp! Sounds like an awesome opportunity. Hope that will open doors to a number of future special opportunities, as well! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

 

ETA:  Our school district also offers a high school Physical Science class in 8th grade that is listed on the transcript as a high school class taken early.  Dd took a high school level physical science course at home in 8th grade and I was planning on counting that as an early high school class.  Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't?  

 

Agreeing with RootAnn -- it's totally up to you, and there is no "one size fits all" answer for this. ;)

 

Just me, but to help decide, I would weigh the Physical Science against the other science credits your student takes in high school -- how does the Physical Science compare in volume and rigor? In retrospect, was it a legitimate 9th grade level science course? Weigh it against the student's other credits overall -- how does it fit in? It is an oddly "lite" credit by comparison, or does if fit right in?

 

Also, what's the reason for including it? Does that enable the student to graduate a year early and go on to college? Or spend the last year of high school doing all dual enrollment? Then probably not a problem.

 

Is it to have 5 sciences on the transcript (Physical Sci in 8th + 4 sciences in high school) to be competitive for a STEM college degree program? If so, Physical Science is not likely to help with that, since what would be looked for are advanced sciences, not just overall number of science credits.

 

Is it to get a science credit done before high school to leave more room in the high school schedule for credits of the student's interest? If so, be careful to also have 3 sciences with labs done during the high school years, in case the student's college of choice requires a minimum of 3 sciences, and that they are done during high school.

 

All the best, EricaH, as you think through what's best for awarding credit. :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Lori D.

[Kassia]

 

Just me, but to help decide, I would weigh the Physical Science against the other science credits your student takes in high school -- how does the Physical Science compare in volume and rigor? In retrospect, was it a legitimate 9th grade level science course? Weigh it against the student's other credits overall -- how does it fit in? It is an oddly "lite" credit by comparison, or does if fit right in?

 

Also, what's the reason for including it? Does that enable the student to graduate a year early and go on to college? Or spend the last year of high school doing all dual enrollment? Then probably not a problem.

 

Is it to have 5 sciences on the transcript (Physical Sci in 8th + 4 sciences in high school) to be competitive for a STEM college degree program? If so, Physical Science is not likely to help with that, since what would be looked for are advanced sciences, not just overall number of science credits.

 

Is it to get a science credit done before high school to leave more room in the high school schedule for credits of the student's interest? If so, be careful to also have 3 sciences with labs done during the high school years, in case the student's college of choice requires a minimum of 3 sciences, and that they are done during high school.

 

All the best, EricaH, as you think through what's best for awarding credit. :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

DD took Physical Science using Conceptual Academy when she was in 8th grade.  The course said it's for grades 10 and up.  She doesn't like science so I was hoping to use it as a science credit to free up her schedule for courses she likes better when she's older and she will still get four years of science.  This year she's doing Oak Meadow Biology.  Next year she'll do chemistry as a DE student (but it is an intro course, not a college level class) and then she'll do physics as a DE student.  She'll have her four credits then if I include the physical science taken in 8th grade.  At that point, she's free to take another science if she wants to and I'll probably encourage her to take an easy course at the community college just to make sure she has enough science credits to satisfy colleges.  

[Connections]

I completely understand your frustration with these gray areas. 

 

I encourage you to keep good records as others have indicated and it really will become less gray as the high school years unfold. 

 

I was in a smilar position at the beginning of high school (but not related to art) and now that we are a couple of years in and I can see the transcript developing, the decisions are easier to make. 

 

I do have a transcript (several versions actually) in progress and that helps quell my frustration. I have changed those transcripts through the years as the decisions become more clear. Seeing it on paper over the years also helps.

 

So many of these things homeschool decisions become more clear as the years pass, but for those of us (likely all of us on this board) who like to have all of our ducks in a row and who want the answers today, waiting is never easy! 

 

I feel your pain! 

 

And it sounds like you are providing fabulous learning experiences for your child- that will all be evident on paper when the time comes! 

 

 

 

 

[...................]

In my state ONLY math and foreign language are allowed to count...as Lori said, many states also allow Science, but mine does not.

So, you really need to check with your state. 

 

I would think if the courses were taken this coming summer, they would be considered 9th grade and could be included.  Other than that, and you may run into problems with colleges when they see discrepencies in the dates.

[Lori D.]

DD took Physical Science using Conceptual Academy when she was in 8th grade.  The course said it's for grades 10 and up.  She doesn't like science so I was hoping to use it as a science credit to free up her schedule for courses she likes better when she's older and she will still get four years of science.  This year she's doing Oak Meadow Biology.  Next year she'll do chemistry as a DE student (but it is an intro course, not a college level class) and then she'll do physics as a DE student.  She'll have her four credits then if I include the physical science taken in 8th grade.  At that point, she's free to take another science if she wants to and I'll probably encourage her to take an easy course at the community college just to make sure she has enough science credits to satisfy colleges.  

 

Especially if DD is not planning on a STEM field, she's only going to need 3 science credits for college admission (some colleges only require 2 sciences for admission). So that right there frees you up to not need a 4th science done in high school -- and gives you freedom to decide later on whether to include the 8th grade Physical Science or not.

 

Neither DS here was going into a STEM field, and we only did 3 Sciences in high school -- in fact we spread out those sciences, so did a 0.75 credit of science each year of high school to give us more breathing room in our schedule. However, we did the traditional high school sciences of Biology, Chemistry, Physics -- not Physical Science (done in 8th grade) -- as those 3 credits.

 

Just another way of looking at things. ;)

[Kassia]

Especially if DD is not planning on a STEM field, she's only going to need 3 science credits for college admission (some colleges only require 2 sciences for admission). So that right there frees you up to not need a 4th science done in high school -- and gives you freedom to decide later on whether to include the 8th grade Physical Science or not.

 

Neither DS here was going into a STEM field, and we only did 3 Sciences in high school -- in fact we spread out those sciences, so did a 0.75 credit of science each year of high school to give us more breathing room in our schedule. However, we did the traditional high school sciences of Biology, Chemistry, Physics -- not Physical Science (done in 8th grade) -- as those 3 credits.

 

Just another way of looking at things. ;)

 

Thank you, Lori, I always appreciate your input!  

 

Dd is looking at math or computer science majors but, for now, definitely not science.  She's only in 9th grade so we'll see.  I just want to keep her options open.  She will definitely have biology, chemistry, and physics.  

[Sebastian (a lady)]

In my state ONLY math and foreign language are allowed to count...as Lori said, many states also allow Science, but mine does not.

So, you really need to check with your state.

 

I would think if the courses were taken this coming summer, they would be considered 9th grade and could be included. Other than that, and you may run into problems with colleges when they see discrepencies in the dates.

Does the state regulate homeschool coursework and transcripts?

 

I did use local policy to justify counting math and foreign language and to justify my policy for how I counted dual enrollment courses. But in my state it was still my policy to set as a homeschooled.

[...................]

^^ No, but the colleges will not accept any Science taken in 8th grade.  THe colleges know exactly what is usually done in high school, whether private or public and it will not be accepted as valid.

 

Which is why, as I said, you really have to check with what's usually done in your state.

[bluebonnetgirl]

I just wanted to follow up on my original post.

 

I checked with the film camp director about giving high school credit for the experience and he said this:  "Yes, I've had parents use it as part of their homeschooling credits before.  I have interns from college come and (your son) will be learning no less than they do."  (So this is not just a high school level class, but college worthy as well.)

 

I also checked with the Animation I provider and he said this:   "I would definitely list them on his transcript.    A half credit is what we suggest."

 

The Art I is a standard high school Art class taken from a professional artist at a local outsource center. He will be taking Art II next year, a more advanced high school art class.  

 

It seems logical for me to include the Art I (1 credit) and the Animation I (.5 credit) class as early high school credits (they were taken in 8th grade, the Art I was full year, and the Animation was spring semester of 8th grade year only)

 

The film camp experience probably should  be listed as Film Production (1 credit)as a 9th grade credit since it will be taken in the summer after 8th grade.

 

The drama production I probably won't list on his transcript, but will on his extracurricular experiences, especially as his debut, as he wants to continue to do other productions.

 

Remember, this teen will be pursuing an art/film/or theater degree.  These classes are what will help him shine.  His other classes will likely be average high school classes.  

[eternalsummer]

When I was in high school (15 years ago, but not *that* long), Art 1 was the introductory 9th grade art course; it was also the highest-level 8th grade art course.  If you took Art 1 as an 8th grader, you took Art 2 as a 9th grader.  They did not list Art 1 on the transcript; I'm sure they'd assume, seeing that you'd completed Art 2 in 9th, that you had taken Art 1 before that.

[J-rap]

Personally, I would list the art class and the animation class, but leave the film camp and any productions as EC.  (Even though the film camp does sound really great!)  I think the exception would be if you really needed that credit.  But as others have said, he will most likely have lots of film/theater experience throughout high school if this is a passion of his, and only a minimal amount of art credits are required.

 

That's not a bad thing at all, though.  I think it's just as easy to highlight the film camp somewhere else on a college application.  

 

I would start keeping a detailed list of every film/theatre related activity he is in.  He will most likely be asked to submit a separate theater/film resume on top of his application.  My dd had to submit a separate one for both theater and for music.  This is where she had a chance to really list all of her unique theater/film experiences, special projects, awards, etc.

 

Fortunately you have some time to think this through and tweak things as you go!  Just make sure to keep good records and you can always choose to include things on the transcript, or not.  You'll probably have a better idea of this as you go.

[Carrie12345]

For now, I would keep all the info/paper trails and tease it out as you go along.

 

I don't think my 8th grade daughter will pursue the arts, but it's a possibility.  I have no idea exactly how we'll document her musical theatre experience yet.  This has been her 3rd year, and she will probably have 4 more.  Her role this year was equal to her 9th grade sister's and several of the other high schoolers', though it wasn't a big lead.  I have it in my head that I will probably credit her largest role over the years, and then list the rest as a consistent activity, but I can't say for sure yet.  We'll see how things shake out as we get closer.

 

"Camp for credit" is another one I'm going to have to fiddle with in my head.  We have 2 week camps that award college credit in environmental science, so that seems like a no brainer for my environmental kids. But we also have environmental camps that are nearly as rigorous that aren't described as credit worthy, and it seems a shame to discount those.  It doesn't appear that they're going to NEED the credit there, but I like having it in my back pocket for now.