Be Careful Using Vintage History/Sociology Sources

[gstharr]

I stumble across a nice coffee-table volume of Reader's Digest History of Man; THE LAST TWO MILLION YEARS.  Looked at the beginning parts on the great civilizations: Mesopotamia, Ancient Egypt, Persian,  and Myceneans. I liked the subject  treatment and illustrations.  Thought it to be a perfect supplement to the 6th grader's text on ancient cultures.  He started reading it on the way to school.  A few minutes into the book, he states, "hey, do you know they use Negro in this book?"  I'm thinking it is Reader's Digest- they must  handle it appropriately.  So, I tell him that the word is archaic and really is inappropriate to use most times.  After he reads some more, 'hey, they use Negro a lot in this book."  I asked him to check when the book was published.  Finding out that it was 1973, I discuss with him the Civil Rights Act, and society's changes that were going on at that time.  But, I told him that I was a surprised  that Reader's Digest was using the term so casually as late as 1973   I am starting to think that I handled it well and that we would still be able to use the book for reference.  Then comes, "hey did you know that they call Asians "Mongoloids with slit eyes?"  I had to snatch the book from him before he retained something that would cause his immediate expulsion from school.

 

[Crimson Wife]

FWIW, I was taught the "three races" of "Negroid", "Mongoloid", and "Caucasoid" in 3rd grade in the mid-80's so I'm not shocked that the terms were used in '73. Also, "Indian" to refer to Native Americans and "Eskimo" to refer to the Inuit the same year.

]

I obviously do not use those outdated terms with my own kids but if they come up in some book written a while ago, I point out that they reflect the author's time. I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater by censoring otherwise good books simply because their authors use un-P.C. terminology.

[Garga]

The way you told that story is hilarious.  

 

I'd have taken the book away, too as it sounds like it was prevalent.  Once or twice, maybe we could talk, but not if it's riddled with the terms.   :)  Times have changed for the better and I wouldn't want my kids getting that old terminology in their heads and thinking in those terms or saying them out loud.  No, no, no!

 

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Garga

[gstharr]

FWIW, I was taught the "three races" of "Negroid", "Mongoloid", and "Caucasoid" in 3rd grade in the mid-80's so I'm not shocked that the terms were used in '73. Also, "Indian" to refer to Native Americans and "Eskimo" to refer to the Inuit the same year.

]

I obviously do not use those outdated terms with my own kids but if they come up in some book written a while ago, I point out that they reflect the author's time. I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater by censoring otherwise good books simply because their authors use un-P.C. terminology.MY 

 

My point was that I don't want the baby thrown out with the bathwater, or my son thrown out of school, because I inadvertently gave  something that would cause that. 

[jaredluvsjoanie]

I know some African-Americans who actually prefer the term Negro. Also, if it is TRULY offensive, perhaps the United Negro College Fund should find a new moniker. There also seems to be no problem with the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People). It is correct that the terms in the book reflect the author's time. It is also true that terms fall in and out of favor through time and from region to region. Something acceptable in one part of the country may not be acceptable elsewhere. You are right to be concerned that your son may absorb something and later inadvertently cause offence, but this is also a great opportunity for discussion in your family. Our present day has seen great strides in the acceptance of others, but, sadly, we also have the regrettable condition of hyper-sensitivity where everyone and his dog is looking for opportunities to be offended and relegate themselves to a status of perpetual victimhood.

Edited March 2, 2017 by JNDodge

[gstharr]

I know some African-Americans who actually prefer the term Negro. Also, if it is TRULY offensive, perhaps the United Negro College Fund should find a new moniker. There also seems to be no problem with the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People). It is correct that the terms in the book reflect the author's time. It is also true that terms fall in and out of favor through time and from region to region. Something acceptable in one part of the country may not be acceptable elsewhere. You are right to be concerned that your son may absorb something and later inadvertently cause offence, but this is also a great opportunity for discussion in your family. Our present day has seen great strides in the acceptance of others, but, sadly, we also have the regrettable condition of hyper-sensitivity where everyone and his dog is looking for opportunities to be offended and self-relegate themselves to a status of perpetual victimhood.

I'm surprised that it is only people you know, because is is usually some of my best friends are [insert group].  Tell  us how often [insert group] have been in your home for supper, or attended your church.   Did you miss the part where I took the opportunity for discussion of the the Civil Rights Act., and societal changes  that were  going on?.  Again, my concern was not getting my son kicked out of school. because of something I did.

[EndOfOrdinary]

My son has said a few questionable things when allowed to research by himself. My fabulous ideas of being resourceful became quite problematic! Best laid plans! Homeschool Fail!

 

About second grade "Isn't it terrible that Muslim women cannot see. That must be really hard to do life stuff." What on Earth, child?!? My mother was teaching in Dubai. He decided to look up things about Arab nations and their culture. Much interogating later, turns out that he misunderstood that the Burqa was so Muslim women were figuratively "not seen". Not that they could not see. Gracious! I can only imagine where that would have gone in school.

[Jackie]

The same care needs taken with much classic literature. I nearly died when Caddie Woodlawn casually referred to some kids as "half-breeds" for being biracial. And I decided a certain word could be omitted when reading aloud from Kipling's Just So Stories. And every darn "frontier" story with Native Americans as savages...

[vonfirmath]

I know some African-Americans who actually prefer the term Negro. Also, if it is TRULY offensive, perhaps the United Negro College Fund should find a new moniker. There also seems to be no problem with the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People). It is correct that the terms in the book reflect the author's time. It is also true that terms fall in and out of favor through time and from region to region. Something acceptable in one part of the country may not be acceptable elsewhere. You are right to be concerned that your son may absorb something and later inadvertently cause offence, but this is also a great opportunity for discussion in your family. Our present day has seen great strides in the acceptance of others, but, sadly, we also have the regrettable condition of hyper-sensitivity where everyone and his dog is looking for opportunities to be offended and relegate themselves to a status of perpetual victimhood.

 

...I didn't know the word Negro was considered unacceptable now. I do hear AFrican-American more often. But I know people that do NOT like that term as well.

[Random]

I'm surprised that it is only people you know, because is is usually some of my best friends are [insert group].  Tell  us how often [insert group] have been in your home for supper, or attended your church.   Did you miss the part where I took the opportunity for discussion of the the Civil Rights Act., and societal changes  that were  going on?.  Again, my concern was not getting my son kicked out of school. because of something I did.

 

 

Would your son really be kicked out of school for innocently using a word that now has ugly connotations? 

 

FWIW, we used a vintage book of poems that referred to a kitten as a p*s*y.  That would've caused some really awkward situations if my son had used that word at a friend's house!  Hopefully, if it had happened without my knowledge the adults around would've just talked to me about it. 

 

Sometimes, these words change meaning over time and there's no ill will meant by the person who uses it now out of context, you know?

[...................]

FWIW, I was taught the "three races" of "Negroid", "Mongoloid", and "Caucasoid" in 3rd grade in the mid-80's so I'm not shocked that the terms were used in '73. Also, "Indian" to refer to Native Americans and "Eskimo" to refer to the Inuit the same year.

]

I obviously do not use those outdated terms with my own kids but if they come up in some book written a while ago, I point out that they reflect the author's time. I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater by censoring otherwise good books simply because their authors use un-P.C. terminology.

Yep my husband born in very early 70s was taught exactly this in New York on Long Island- a progressive and well educated area.

 

He still says caucasoid jokingly when people ask his race. He thinks it was all so strange and hilarious.

[...................]

The same care needs taken with much classic literature. I nearly died when Caddie Woodlawn casually referred to some kids as "half-breeds" for being biracial. And I decided a certain word could be omitted when reading aloud from Kipling's Just So Stories. And every darn "frontier" story with Native Americans as savages...

Exactly- it's our history and needs to be discussed.

 

OP:

If you don't really love that resource then sure get rid of it. But if you like the book it could be a fantastic source for discussions.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The 70's is hardly vintage.  :001_rolleyes:

 

OP, if your son can be expelled for reading books at home that do not match up with what is accepted there, then you need to pre-read everything you give him.  There is a lot of unacceptable things written even today on many levels.  A good school will use opportunities to discuss things rationally and objectively. 

[...................]

I don't know I mean early 70's is 45 years ago.  Isn't something kind of vintage when it nears 50 years?? 

[Guest]

I don't know I mean early 70's is 45 years ago. Isn't something kind of vintage when it nears 50 years??

Bite yer tongue, missy. (LoL)

 

I was also taught the three main races in school (Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid) in the 1980's.

[...................]

Lol yeah...that means my dh is nearly vintage haha I have a few years to go...

[foxbridgeacademy]

Also went to Elementary school in the 80's and learned the 3 "races".  Listing Caucasian on forms brought about a discussion on this just the other day with DD.... she now believes the 80's were full of biased idiots, but I remember thinking in the late 80's that we were pretty progressive compared to my mom's generation, who really were biased idiots.  

 

ETA: All this said in a light hearted kind of joking tone.

Edited March 3, 2017 by foxbridgeacademy

[JudoMom]

I don't know I mean early 70's is 45 years ago.  Isn't something kind of vintage when it nears 50 years?? 

 

Knock it off.  I'm still reeling from the discovery the other day that a nice young adult man that comes to our community group for church was born the year I graduated high school.  He's grown, has a job, etc.  Inconceivable.

Edited March 3, 2017 by JudoMom