AOPS self-paced vs. online class

[Alice]

There is probably a thread somewhere with this answer but I can't find exactly what I'm looking for. 

 

I'm wondering how many people have had their kids successfully work through the AOPS curriculum self-paced instead of using the online classes. 

 

My oldest is 8th grade and has done AOPS Pre-Algebra, about half of the Intro Algebra and Intro C&P. He should finish the Intro Algebra this year and the plan is to continue with Geometry next year. He is a good independent learner and the curriculum has been a great fit for him. He really likes math and likes the challenge. And he is a visual learner so is good at learning mostly from the textbook.

 

We didn't know about the videos online until he was a few chapters into Algebra. He used them but says that they were helpful but not necessary. It was more of a way to review what he had just learned in the chapter. Somehow, I didn't realize that there aren't any videos for the second half of Algebra and beyond but just discovered that. I was imagining that he would continue self-paced through high school and use the videos as needed. He thinks that he will be fine with the text alone but now I'm second guessing myself and wondering if it would be better to have him take a class. 

 

The reason we weren't going to have him do a class has to do with pacing and intensity. He likes Math and is good at it but the image I have of the classes from posts here and elsewhere online is that they are very fast and intense. He likes Math but he also likes a lot of other things and I'm not sure I see him spending hours and hours a day on Math, which is what I imagine he would need to do with the pace of the online classes. He is taking his first online class this year (Lukeion Latin) and doing well so he might do ok with it. 

 

I don't know. I'm just wondering if others out there had kids that did the AOPS books without the classes and it was a good thing. 

 

I think I'm just having the "pre-high school with the first kid to  homeschool high school" jitters". Every decision I make seems so weighty and I keep seconding guessing myself. It's like I'm back researching curriculum for 1st grade again and feeling like if I didn't pick the perfect grammar book that all would be lost forever. :) 

 

[Julie of KY]

Self paced is great if it works for you.

 

My oldest has done all of their books self-paced. He's taken a couple of online classes - competition math and intermediate NT (which has no book), but we prefer the self-paced so we can go at our own pace. 

 

I've done some of the books self-paced with my 2nd and 3rd kids as well as some i've tutored.

[JoJosMom]

From my reading of the AoPS threads, I think that more people use AoPS without the classes than with.  If it's working, why change?

[Alice]

From my reading of the AoPS threads, I think that more people use AoPS without the classes than with.  If it's working, why change?

 

 

That's a good question. No reason, except that I think everything about high school planning seems scary right now. 

[JoJosMom]

That's a good question. No reason, except that I think everything about high school planning seems scary right now. 

 

Oh, I totally get that!  :grouphug:

 

We're using the online classes.  Mostly because I am entirely incapable of helping. :glare:   They do go very, very quickly, though, so, if he's good with the current approach, you might want to stick with it.  On the other hand, if you want to stay with AoPS long term and think that he'll need support, I'd encourage you to make the jump sooner rather than later, to give him time to adjust.

[Arcadia]

That's a good question. No reason, except that I think everything about high school planning seems scary right now.

My kids are using the online classes mainly for social needs. However the nice benefit for me is that it is UC a-g approved and AoPS gives a grade for online classes higher than I would have given my kids. My kids would have gotten a C or D from me for their effort instead of an A or B.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Arcadia

[crazyforlatin]

I'm in the same position as Arcadia. We need a-g certification. Even though we've already finished AoPS algebra, we need to take the online class for certification in order to take a local placement test to test out of algebra. What a mess.

 

ETA: We did half of Pre algebra on our own and the other half online, just to have someone push us along. For algebra we took our time, but since circumstances may change, we need to be prepared with a certified class, so we're going to redo the book in a way. I like using AoPS on our own without the pressure of deadlines, but I also like outside accountability as well. If you need an online provider who uses AoPS without the rapid pace, you may want to look into WTMA.

Edited February 1, 2017 by crazyforlatin

[lewelma]

DS did the Intro Algebra and Geometry texts independently. They took him 4.5 years of self study to get through those 2 books. The slow methodical pace and deep understanding prepared him well for the online classes.  In 1.5 years he took: Intermediate Algebra, Intermed Number theory, Intermed Counting, Olympiad Geometry, and PreCalc. He got only blue bars all the way through. So I'm all for having a kid really dig deep into the Algebra book and go at a pace appropriate for *him.*

 

Ruth in NZ

[mirabillis]

 

I think I'm just having the "pre-high school with the first kid to  homeschool high school" jitters". Every decision I make seems so weighty and I keep seconding guessing myself. It's like I'm back researching curriculum for 1st grade again and feeling like if I didn't pick the perfect grammar book that all would be lost forever. :)

 

But doesn't it totally just feel that way? Here we've been on auto-pilot for years now and you enter high school, and bam, it's like you're a total newbie again. It gets better, I promise! We're only 1/2way through 9th grade (first high schooler), and I feel I am getting the ropes.

 

As to the conversation, I don't have much to weigh in on this conversation... we didn't much like the chat-box style teaching format. But that was just us. And it wasn't what you were asking anyway! LOL

 

[SeaConquest]

What about a compromise by taking the WTMA's AOPS classes? They go slower than the regular AOPS courses.

[Alice]

 

But doesn't it totally just feel that way? Here we've been on auto-pilot for years now and you enter high school, and bam, it's like you're a total newbie again. It gets better, I promise! We're only 1/2way through 9th grade (first high schooler), and I feel I am getting the ropes.

 

As to the conversation, I don't have much to weigh in on this conversation... we didn't much like the chat-box style teaching format. But that was just us. And it wasn't what you were asking anyway! LOL

 

 

 

Thanks, it's still nice to hear that I'm not the only one who has lost my mind a little bit at the transition from middle to high school. 

 

What about a compromise by taking the WTMA's AOPS classes? They go slower than the regular AOPS courses.

 

 

That's a good thought. I might have to check that out. 

 

I'll probably just stick with self-paced for now. I should say he's not that slow. He did the first 13 chapters of Algebra in one year, so kind of a normal pace but not the lightening fast pace of the AOPS classes. Then he did C&P in about half a year and is set to finish the second half of the Algebra book in about half a school year. He's gotten faster as he's figured out the method and gotten older. I can mostly help him when needed. And the times that I haven't been able to help him he's been able to read the solutions manual and understand it. Recently he had a problem at the end of C&P that he didn't understand the solutions manual solution and I couldn't help him. I've never done the kind of math in C&P so was totally at a loss. We looked it up on the AOPS forums and someone had a different solution that he did understand but it bugged him that he couldn't figure out the one in the manual. There was one step where they inserted an identity but he didn't know where it came from and we couldn't find it in the text . So on his own he went back and derived the identity that they used to satisfy himself that the solution did make sense. That's why in general the program is a good fit for him. I think it requires a level of work beyond what he would have to do with other programs and he likes doing it. 

 

Geometry was one of my favorite subjects so I should be fine to help next year.  :) 

[regentrude]

Both of my kids did self paced with the textbook, from Algebra through calculus (pre-Algebra was not out when we needed it).

At very different paces, too: DD completed Intro to Alg in one year, DS took 2 years and did a one semester detour for C&P after doing the first half.

DD did geo and Intermediate Algebra simultaneously; DS is doing all consecutively. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by regentrude

[daijobu]

For regular classes, we only used the textbooks, not the online classes because they were too fast.  But my kids did take the AMC/MathCounts prep online classes.  

[crazyforlatin]

Just remembered that we did take MATHCOUNTS online last summer, and it was a great class. Too bad there is no UC certification for that class.

[wapiti]

Just remembered that we did take MATHCOUNTS online last summer, and it was a great class. Too bad there is no UC certification for that class.

 

How much weekly homework for that class?  I'm thinking it might be good plan for my ds10, who is taking algebra 1 at school but skipped several levels of math (and did not do aops prealgebra, unlike his older sibs).  I may run through the prealgebra text with him over the summer, but I'm wondering if this class might be a more fun way to review and deepen his experience with prealgebra topics.  Thoughts?

 

ETA, for Alice, I'd probably continue with AoPS Geometry, text only is fine.  One advantage of the class is that a weekly proof is graded, but some of them are very very hard.  I strongly recommend doing the corresponding lesson in the Geometry text prior to the class covering it.  The proof due the following week must be done on time in order to get graded.  The class helps keep the student on schedule, but if the student is short of time and falls behind, it's hard to get back on track (use the winter break for this, for example).

Edited February 1, 2017 by wapiti

[Arcadia]

Geometry was one of my favorite subjects so I should be fine to help next year. :)

 

 

My oldest did prealgebra, intro to algebra, intermediate C&P, intro to NT by the book. He did about half the intro to geometry book before class started about 1.5 years ago. Some of his solutions are different from the solution manual. I was exhausted from having my brains picked by him so when younger boy needed online classes for accountability, I pay up for oldest too. My younger does lots better (less underperforming) for outside classes. The difference is like an A effort for teachers, a C effort (for me) and a F effort for my husband.

 

My oldest found he like having classmates for math so we kept paying for AoPS classes from intermediate algebra onwards.

 

Geometry is my younger boy's favorite and luckily my oldest can tutor him for free because my brains are fried reading my oldest boy's homework.

 

Just remembered that we did take MATHCOUNTS online last summer, and it was a great class. Too bad there is no UC certification for that class.

My youngest is the same age as your child. Whatever he did from April 2016 when AoPS courses started being UC certified we didn't count as it is before 7th grade. I am on the fence whether I want to count this academic year's classes for my older as he would likely have an atypical lopsided transcript. Edited February 1, 2017 by Arcadia

[Arcadia]

How much weekly homework for that class? I'm thinking it might be good plan for my ds10, who is taking algebra 1 at school but skipped several levels of math (and did not do aops prealgebra, unlike his older sibs). I may run through the prealgebra text with him over the summer, but I'm wondering if this class might be a more fun way to review and deepen his experience with prealgebra topics. Thoughts?

DS11 did the advanced class over summer last year because he wanted to do better for the AMC8. I had to nag him to do his readings and homework. It felt like math circle all over again to me. I write it off as a summer camp expenses but I won't have paid if I didn't have that "fun summer money" to spend.

 

The prealgebra book was worth the time spent doing for both of mine. My oldest did lots of rabbit trails, my younger just wanted to get it done.

 

His was this MathCounts class. https://www.artofproblemsolving.com/school/course/mathcounts-advanced

[...................]

We did not like the online class.  IN fact it went so poorly my ds got turned off of AOPS completely after two successful years with it.

 

1.  The class doesn't use the Challenge problems from the book, and therefore your student has no access to the solutions througout the week.  My son liked using the solutions when he got stuck, or I liked to give him a hint, that would set him on the proper track.  With the online class, he felt completely frustrated and was unable to get through so many problems, and unable to see the solutions until class day.  this is the number one reason I do not recommend using the class unless your kid is really and truly profoundly gifted (as AOPS does advertise itself for highly gifted math students)

 

2. The class is all text, no speech, and no live teacher and it moves very quickly.  We found that our instructor lacked inspiration, and that the class was not really a teaching class but more of a "putting out fires" class - IOW the kids had to work through the book and teach themselves and the class was more about answering questions about where they got stuck.  Unfortunately the instructor didn't have the time to explain and cover all of the Challenge problems and the format wasn't conducive to learning.

 

3.  The "progress bar" was very upsetting for my son who is a "Competent Carl."  You student is really not expected to solve ALL of the Challenge problems but sometimes, with no hints, no help, no solutions manual and the class moving so fast, he would end a section with the bar really incomplete and he would feel so frustrated because he spent hours on Alcumus, hours in the book, hours solving all the regular practice problems but still end up with what he saw as a C because the bar would be only half completed.  

 

4.  Unless you yourself are REALLY amazing at math, and/or your ds is, I would recommend doing hte regular book, with all the regular practice problems, Alcumus (which is free) and considering the Challenge Problems as "Extra Credit"...let your son pick ONE to work on each week and be super proud if he does it.  

 

If your son IS profoundly gifted, then obviously you'll want to use the book and curriuclum to its full potential, but even then, I don't think the class is worth it unless your son enjoys the interaction via the message board, and / or he needs the accredited class in your state.

[crazyforlatin]

How much weekly homework for that class?  I'm thinking it might be good plan for my ds10, who is taking algebra 1 at school but skipped several levels of math (and did not do aops prealgebra, unlike his older sibs).  I may run through the prealgebra text with him over the summer, but I'm wondering if this class might be a more fun way to review and deepen his experience with prealgebra topics.  Thoughts?

 

 

 

There are around 15 problems per week, so the workload is about a 2-3 hours per week. They are typical AoPS pre-algebra and algebra problems. Not extremely challenging, but DD didn't finish up sequences and series in Chapter 21 of the algebra book before they introduced it in Mathcounts so it was new to her. Probability has been her weak point, apparently, all the way from pre-algebra. And probability showed up again in Mathcounts, and it's still her weak point. She didn't always do the homework problems; this class was more for her to be in a class with other kids. Despite it being a text based class, DD likes AOPS online a lot. And of course, after the end of the class, we started Math Circle and they introduced a few topics from Mathcounts. She's always enjoyed any Mathcounts problems in the books, so this was a fun class for her. We printed out all the problems and answers by the end of class since there was a message that we would not have access to it at a certain point. 

 

There is no written work in this class. 

[lewelma]

CalmingTea, that was a super helpful review!  My younger is good at math but not super confident and not willing to put in scads of time.  I'm thinking of keeping him with the books rather than putting him in the class. 

 

Ruth in NZ

[Arcadia]

My younger is good at math but not super confident and not willing to put in scads of time. I'm thinking of keeping him with the books rather than putting him in the class.

For my younger boy, the aops classes work better as an afterschool class than as his main math class. He would be happier and consistently perform better in a B&M class. He compete with B&M peers while older compete with himself.

 

Honestly my chatty younger boy gets his social needs from the aops forums as he has much less B&M class this year and so feel left out if he is not in a class. My quiet older gets his social needs mostly met by people watching so forums don't intrigue him much. So very different personalities in terms of academic and social needs.