What math best prepares for BA?

[My4arrows]

I had discovered BA for my accelerated child a couple of years ago because he needed something more. He jumped around a lot in math curriculum because nothing was a good fit until BA when he was 6. My current 5 yo seems to be on the same mathematical path as older brother, just not as quickly, so I want to set a good foundation for him. He will be finishing up MUS primer this week and I'm trying to decide what to move him on to.

I'd rather not have him continue with mus because I feel that it wouldn't prepare him for BA quick enough. We also have MM here, but if there's something else that would work better, I'd like to know my options.

[wendyroo]

We use MM as our main curriculum, and add in BA when each kiddo is ready.

 

In your shoes, I would use whatever program you feel will work best for the particular kid and build a strong, conceptual foundation. I would not worry about getting to BA quickly enough.

 

Wendy

[Miss Tick]

My youngest used Miquon. "Best" is such a heavy word. My other BA kid used MEP.

Edited January 31, 2017 by SusanC

[mathmarm]

 

Assuming that you have them on hand already, I would skip MUS Alpha and go to Beta--easier format for little ones and easy to accelerate, and I would give them every word problem in MM1 and MM2 

 

I had discovered BA for my accelerated child a couple of years ago because he needed something more. He jumped around a lot in math curriculum because nothing was a good fit until BA when he was 6. My current 5 yo seems to be on the same mathematical path as older brother, just not as quickly, so I want to set a good foundation for him. He will be finishing up MUS primer this week and I'm trying to decide what to move him on to.
I'd rather not have him continue with mus because I feel that it wouldn't prepare him for BA quick enough. We also have MM here, but if there's something else that would work better, I'd like to know my options.

But I admit that I'm confused, is your only hesitation with continuing MUS that it's not going to move quick enough, or have you been unhappy with the program in other ways? Both MUS and Math Mammoth seem like solid programs. For a young child, I'd go with MUS because it seems to have a friendlier, more accessible format--Math Mammoth seems a little cramped visually and requires better fine-motor control than a lot of young children have.

 

Beast Academy is meant to be started in the 2nd grade,  as I understand it, there is never going to be a 1st grade Beast Academy program, this is because the kids that are the intended audience that are meant to be served by the Beast Academy Math program will not be short changed based on their earlier math experiences or education.

 

You're either a Math Beast, or you aren't, to lean on the trademark imagery. Assuming you are intending to begin your child in the 3rd grade level of Beast Academy, then I want to encourage you to make lessons that focus on skills utilized, but not taught in BA3. Give them practice in solving multistep word problems, and use whatever program will enable them to acquire skills. Have you thought about combining/accelerating MUS and Math Mammoth?

 

You said that MUS wouldn't get him ready "quick enough", but he's only 5/6 years old. You can use MUS or Math Mammoth (both strong on the conceptual teaching of our base-10 number system, and number-bonds) at his speed. I personally, have been impressed by what I've seen of MUS Arithmetic program (Alpha - Zeta, I believe) AND Math Mammoth.

 

 

I am having a hard time imagining why a Math-Inclined child wouldn't be well prepared by completing a streamlined version of MUS Alpha and Beta. If your child has picked up the topics from Alpha, then just MM 1b and MUS Beta, I think, make a fantastic 1st grade math program.

 

For the kind of child that is the intended audience of Beast Academy, it'll be hard to do the "wrong" early math. That is why there is no 1st grade BA planned/intended,the kids who are the target audience will bridge those concepts and extrapolate that if 1+1 = 2, then 1,000,000 + 1,000,000 = 2,000,000, you know?

 

[desertflower]

Singpore math seem to work fine for my oldest. I'm doing the same thing with my middle child.

[Julie of KY]

I've used MIquon and Singapore math in the early years before Beast.

 

[EKS]

I'd use Singapore.

[AmandaVT]

I started DS in MM1 in K. He finished 3B by the end of 1st grade and last year, we did MM 4 A&B along with Beast 3 A-D. This year, he's working through Beast 4 and I supplement with MM if I think he can use extra practice on a concept. I will say that so far when I try to do this, he flies through the MM pages very quickly and easily. It is nice to have all of the levels of MM to use as needed.

[Soror]

I don't think there is one right answer and as PP mentioned previously it is more about the kid themselves. My son used Right Start and rolled into Beast seamlessly, then did avariety of different things and is be doing well with ApPS pre-algebra.

 

My second daughter is in 1st now and has used a smattering of programs- MEP, MiF, Miquon, Right Start and Horizons (we've moved sideways instead of forward because that is what she needed) I plan to try her on Beast next year when they start releasing grade 2, I think it might be a great fit for her. I've not tried it with my older daughter and have no intention of it, she needs spiral and incremental, gets frustrated and stressed out easily when she can't figure things out.

 

Starting kids in Elementary with Beast, especially in 2nd grade I think it would be hard to screw it up for the right kind of kid. Play math, talk about math, play games, there are many good paths ( and Beast isn't the be all, end all for "mathy" kids either).

[My4arrows]

For some reason I can't quote right, but mathmarm-

"Assuming you are intending to begin your child in the 3rd grade level of Beast Academy, then I want to encourage you to make lessons that focus on skills utilized, but not taught in BA3."

 

I didn't articulate what I meant clearly I think, but this is more along the lines of what I was asking. Is there a good program that would best cover these skills.

 

Although I like mus A LOT (in fact we are using it for my oldest and he loves it), for my more math kids, it seems to move too slowly since they master it so quickly. I guess it's not slow, but rather I know it can get very expensive and I feel wasted a lot of the sheets. So although I have the levels up through epsilon on hand, I'm not sure it's the best fit for my 5 yo. He doesn't like to use the blocks and doesn't need them. He has self taught different concepts and doesn't need to reinforcement mus gives. He's usually mastered a topic by the first sheet and can apply the idea to more complex ideas.

 

Also as of now, I'm not planning on starting him in BA 3 in 1st grade like his brother, but if that's the best fit for him we will. Right now he's still in pre-k, just turned 5, so I have time to see where'd he falls.

 

Thank you, your post has helped me clarify my thoughts a lot for myself. somdtimes I overthink things!

Edited January 31, 2017 by My4arrows

[Cake and Pi]

Kid #3 is doing a combination of RS and MEP, with the intention of eventually trying BA.  Oldest moved into BA from RS.  I love RS, but I think the puzzly aspect of MEP is better "preparation" for BA.  Plus it's free.

 

I've also heard good things about Miquon, but we've never tried it.

[mathmarm]

Does your 5yo like worksheets? If you already have MUS up through Epsilon, and he doesn't need all of the sheets, then can you go back through the books and accelerate through a mix of the Systematic Review pages from each level and give him those problems? You can use sticky notes/postits to cover the answers and let him write on the sticky note OR you can put the problems on a lapsized whiteboard and let him write out the answer himself.

 

Another way to get more use out of MUS for your math leaning 5yo is to take a conversational approach to the books.

You guys can cover the answers with a sheet of paper and discuss the problems orally, then reveal to show him if he got it correct or not. If you find a mistake in the older childs work, just include that as an opportunity for your little one to check his  own work.

 

Make it conversational and interactive as though he's competing against "The Book" and not his older siblings past performance. 

 

If he says "13 + 8 = 21" you say "Lets see what The Book said" and if you move the piece of paper and see that his older sibling wrote 12 in that spot, then when you see what the books says, ask him if he still thinks that he's right, and if he confirms that he's right, let him  figure out  and tell you what "The Book did wrong"--Or "How is The Book trying to trick you?"  in that case.

 

That's a good and efficient way that reusing an older siblings math book for a math bright, younger sibling can work out win-win-win. Your 5yo will cover a lot more ground, more quickly doing math conversationally and the persistent use of Base-ten blocks in the book will help him to see the answers/process and he won't need to use the physical blocks since they are printed on the page.

 

 

There is a lot of value in practicing and gaining fluency with things that you understand and many small children tend to be pretty tolerant of practice. There is a satisfaction in feeling "Yay! I got it!" when they are young. 

 

By accelerating him through MUS in a conversational way, and giving him all the word problems from Math Mammoth then I think that he could benefit pretty well. It keeps the handwriting slog out of math, and allows him to refine his skills, while building fluency and a strong conceptual foundation, it gives practice that isn't too taxing and if you wind up getting through 4 levels of MUS in a year, then you haven't opened your purse once to pay for it.

 

Unless the child is whining and fighting against the worksheets or the level of work, then I would have him do what I outlined above and just be prepared to move at his pace. When you find that he is struggling with a topic, then you earmark that lesson/topic and go back over some of the lesson pages for that particular skill and include a little extra practice for that. 

 

Since you already have MUS on hand, then you can do the lessons in the way that makes the most sense for your son. After Beta, I probably would do corresponding lessons from MUS Gamma and Delta, for example. Instead of waiting until the end of Gamma to touch on Division with him, etc. 

[Coco_Clark]

I've used Miquon this last kiddo and thought it was a GREAT fit. It emphasizes the same problem solving skills and going through all 6 Miquon books (advertised as grades 1-3, but I did them k-2) set us up perfectly to start Beast 3 in 3rd grade (2 is planned, but not out yet, so that was the earliest I could switch).

 

But previously I'd used Singapore Primary and that worked as well, going from Primary 2 into Beast 3.

 

I don't think anything could be "wrong" but I agree with you that it would take a LOT of MUS levels to prepare.

[My4arrows]

Does your 5yo like worksheets? If you already have MUS up through Epsilon, and he doesn't need all of the sheets, then can you go back through the books and accelerate through a mix of the Systematic Review pages from each level and give him those problems? You can use sticky notes/postits to cover the answers and let him write on the sticky note OR you can put the problems on a lapsized whiteboard and let him write out the answer himself.

 

Another way to get more use out of MUS for your math leaning 5yo is to take a conversational approach to the books.

You guys can cover the answers with a sheet of paper and discuss the problems orally, then reveal to show him if he got it correct or not. If you find a mistake in the older childs work, just include that as an opportunity for your little one to check his own work.

 

Make it conversational and interactive as though he's competing against "The Book" and not his older siblings past performance.

 

If he says "13 + 8 = 21" you say "Lets see what The Book said" and if you move the piece of paper and see that his older sibling wrote 12 in that spot, then when you see what the books says, ask him if he still thinks that he's right, and if he confirms that he's right, let him figure out and tell you what "The Book did wrong"--Or "How is The Book trying to trick you?" in that case.

 

That's a good and efficient way that reusing an older siblings math book for a math bright, younger sibling can work out win-win-win. Your 5yo will cover a lot more ground, more quickly doing math conversationally and the persistent use of Base-ten blocks in the book will help him to see the answers/process and he won't need to use the physical blocks since they are printed on the page.

 

 

There is a lot of value in practicing and gaining fluency with things that you understand and many small children tend to be pretty tolerant of practice. There is a satisfaction in feeling "Yay! I got it!" when they are young.

 

By accelerating him through MUS in a conversational way, and giving him all the word problems from Math Mammoth then I think that he could benefit pretty well. It keeps the handwriting slog out of math, and allows him to refine his skills, while building fluency and a strong conceptual foundation, it gives practice that isn't too taxing and if you wind up getting through 4 levels of MUS in a year, then you haven't opened your purse once to pay for it.

 

Unless the child is whining and fighting against the worksheets or the level of work, then I would have him do what I outlined above and just be prepared to move at his pace. When you find that he is struggling with a topic, then you earmark that lesson/topic and go back over some of the lesson pages for that particular skill and include a little extra practice for that.

 

Since you already have MUS on hand, then you can do the lessons in the way that makes the most sense for your son. After Beta, I probably would do corresponding lessons from MUS Gamma and Delta, for example. Instead of waiting until the end of Gamma to touch on Division with him, etc.

I'll think about this. The books we have are new, so I could use them and have him write the answers elsewhere. I do like the idea of combining gamma and delta. But I also already have all the levels of mm, so it may more more sense for me to print the lessons I need from there.

[My4arrows]

I've used Miquon this last kiddo and thought it was a GREAT fit. It emphasizes the same problem solving skills and going through all 6 Miquon books (advertised as grades 1-3, but I did them k-2) set us up perfectly to start Beast 3 in 3rd grade (2 is planned, but not out yet, so that was the earliest I could switch).

 

But previously I'd used Singapore Primary and that worked as well, going from Primary 2 into Beast 3.

 

I don't think anything could be "wrong" but I agree with you that it would take a LOT of MUS levels to prepare.

Thanks, I will look into Miquon as a different choice. For subjects like math, I don't mind finding what works best for each of my kids and having them go their own route.

[mathmarm]

I'll think about this. The books we have are new, so I could use them and have him write the answers elsewhere. I do like the idea of combining gamma and delta. But I also already have all the levels of mm, so it may more more sense for me to print the lessons I need from there.

 

Possibly. My main concern for the young child that you describe is that doing a workbook for math--is going to be fatiguing him with writing, reading, sitting, and other non-Math things.  You run the risk of creating a lot of negative associations with math time, that have nothing to do with math.

 

Ultimately, I think that the "best" way to prepare a young, but math-inclined child for BA is going to be the same way that you prepare them for anything: Let them be curious and love math. Let him taste success and teach him to be optimistic about the times that he's failed, and to continue when he's struggling.

 

Expose him to big ideas, and give him a thorough conceptual over view of The Basics. Read living math books,  play with the base-10 blocks and c-Rods and do some worksheets occassionally.

 

In your case, I think that it will be hard for you to loose if you making math a Together Time event and it's something that makes him giggle and feel good. He is five years old. Letting him accelerate through Math U See as an 75% oral/25% written math, while occasionally pulling in Math Mammoth for tougher problems or multi step problems is really a great Kindergarten program.

He is just 5 years old. 

 

If your 5yo has the fine motor endurance and attention span to do a book-based math program, then use one. You have 2 perfectly good options on hand, I don't recommend buying another. You can, of course if you want But if the boy is a Math Beast, then he's a Math Beast and your greatest risk is burning him out, not under stimulating him.

Edited January 31, 2017 by mathmarm

[Targhee]

I have had two use BA

The first used RS B and half of C then jumped into BA 3A

The second used mostly Singapore and miquon (with things I brought in from RS) then started 3A. Both were very successful with it.

[My4arrows]

Possibly. My main concern for the young child that you describe is that doing a workbook for math--is going to be fatiguing him with writing, reading, sitting, and other non-Math things. You run the risk of creating a lot of negative associations with math time, that have nothing to do with math.

 

Ultimately, I think that the "best" way to prepare a young, but math-inclined child for BA is going to be the same way that you prepare them for anything: Let them be curious and love math. Let him taste success and teach him to be optimistic about the times that he's failed, and to continue when he's struggling.

 

Expose him to big ideas, and give him a thorough conceptual over view of The Basics. Read living math books, play with the base-10 blocks and c-Rods and do some worksheets occassionally.

 

In your case, I think that it will be hard for you to loose if you making math a Together Time event and it's something that makes him giggle and feel good. He is five years old. Letting him accelerate through Math U See as an 75% oral/25% written math, while occasionally pulling in Math Mammoth for tougher problems or multi step problems is really a great Kindergarten program.

He is just 5 years old.

 

If your 5yo has the fine motor endurance and attention span to do a book-based math program, then use one. You have 2 perfectly good options on hand, I don't recommend buying another. You can, of course if you want But if the boy is a Math Beast, then he's a Math Beast and your greatest risk is burning him out, not under stimulating him.

I completely agree with you and in no way want to create a dislike of any learning for my children. I honestly am more in the camp of slow and steady get me ready, but following the lead of my kids. This is me following his lead. I hadn't planned on beginning any formal schoolwork with him until next year when he turns 6, but we have been working formally since this year upon his request. Also we do math together now. He asks daily to do it and asks for more than I give him. He's not content with the speed or quantity. Watching the way he thinks has shown me he is a math guy, which doesn't surprise me since this is an area of gifting for both my DH and I. For example he was talking on the phone today with my parents and they asked what he was learning. He said, adding 100s. So they asked what is 200+300 and his answer was well that's simple, it's just like 2+3 which is 5, so 500. This wasn't taught, but something he came up with. I'm not pushing him, he's pushing me.

 

We currently use a lot of living math books for fun, he has manipulative a he plays with to discover on his own and lots of hands on. He asks to learn things and I teach him. He LOVES worksheets much to my dismay. That's just how he is. Currently he's really into learning to read, math and logic puzzles (loves minbenders). So I focus on those things and add in fun. The plan for next year with it being K is FIAR as our base, whatever math I choose, continuing with reading lessons if needed, cursive and then tagging along with his older brothers as he wants. At most 45 minutes to 1 hour of school.

[mathmarm]

Yeah, academically, I think our little guys are around the same, except we initiated the academics for Jr, but since he's so enthusiastic about it, we have continued. Maybe my bias is that I kinda wish that I had gotten MUS--not because the lessons are so unique and special, but due to the format--it'd make it easy to give him work that he can do with more independence. Sometimes he wants a math worksheet and we spend a good deal of time making/finding a worksheet that's a good match for his dexterity/stamina/ etc. MUS just seems like such a great format.

 

Based on what you shared about his phone conversation, I would definitely start him in and streamline Beta for him, then simultaneously combine Gamma and Delta. With the base-10 understanding that he has/will going through MUS (Beta), you can also fold in Decimal  arithmetic along side Beta/Gamma+Delta, and have him do MUS Fractions and reconsider from there.

 

I might sit down and copy/staple the pages that I wanted him to do in smaller packets for a week at a time, that'll make it easier to speed-up/slow down MUS according to his interests. I would give him the Systematic Review/Enrichment Pages from Beta, and then put together corresponding pages of G and D and accelerate him through those two books at once also. and when he wants more? Pull word problems from Math Mammoth 1-3

 

I guess my hang up is that I think, in my mind, that MUS has the perfect format for a young child, so that's why I'm so Pro-MUS in this case. I wouldn't normally recommend that you buy MUS because of the cost, but since you have it all on hand anyway...

 

Anyway, that's my 0.05 (because it's more than .02 at this point :laugh:)

 

Edited January 31, 2017 by mathmarm

[My4arrows]

Yeah, academically, I think our little guys are around the same, except we initiated the academics for Jr, but since he's so enthusiastic about it, we have continued. Maybe my bias is that I kinda wish that I had gotten MUS--not because the lessons are so unique and special, but due to the format--it'd make it easy to give him work that he can do with more independence. Sometimes he wants a math worksheet and we spend a good deal of time making/finding a worksheet that's a good match for his dexterity/stamina/ etc. MUS just seems like such a great format.

 

Based on what you shared about his phone conversation, I would definitely start him in and streamline Beta for him, then simultaneously combine Gamma and Delta. With the base-10 understanding that he has/will going through MUS (Beta), you can also fold in Decimal arithmetic along side Beta/Gamma+Delta, and have him do MUS Fractions and reconsider from there.

 

I might sit down and copy/staple the pages that I wanted him to do in smaller packets for a week at a time, that'll make it easier to speed-up/slow down MUS according to his interests. I would give him the Systematic Review/Enrichment Pages from Beta, and then put together corresponding pages of G and D and accelerate him through those two books at once also. and when he wants more? Pull word problems from Math Mammoth 1-3

 

I guess my hang up is that I think, in my mind, that MUS has the perfect format for a young child, so that's why I'm so Pro-MUS in this case. I wouldn't normally recommend that you buy MUS because of the cost, but since you have it all on hand anyway...

 

Anyway, that's my 0.05 (because it's more than .02 at this point :laugh:)

Thanks for the thoughts! Definitely giving me lots to think about as I plan