S/o: Alternatives to consequences/punishment as discipline

[Innisfree]

So, like pretty much all the other parents of SN kids here, we've learned that punishments do not work for our dc. That learning process was painful for us, but far worse for our child.

 

In the interest of others reading and wondering how to handle tough situations, I'd like to offer an alternative which has made a big difference here. I was really pleased to stumble across this article recently and recognize the techniques it describes as those we have been taught to use.

 

I know the op of the other thread is likely very familiar with all this; my thought is that it may help others.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/03/no-spanking-no-time-out-no-problems/475440/

[OneStepAtATime]

Bumping this...

 

And maybe others with kids with special issues could post things that have worked for them, if they have some suggestions they would like to share?

 

Thanks for sharing...

[maize]

One thing that helps here once a kid hits meltdown mode (otherwise known as "the rational part of their brain is completely inaccessible) is distraction--the brain needs to be distracted out of the emotional loop it has fallen into. Depending on the child and the circumatances, there are a few things that can work. One of mine responds very well to audio books and has learned to seek them out herself when she is starting to fall apart. With my younger volatile child, sitting down and reading a picture book, pulling them into a tickle or wrestling game, or turning on a favorite video can all work to break the meltdown cycle.

 

Anything that the child would experience as antagonistic--lecture, time out, consequence--will only feed the emotional storm going on inside them. A child in meltdown mode is fully at the mercy of the primitive, fear driven part of their brain.

Edited December 10, 2016 by maize

[hornblower]

that is an excellent write up of the technique! Control environment, consider antecedents, practice good behavior, reward. 

& I love the last line "We don't change their children. We change the parents, so they can change their children."

 

Karen Pryor's Don't Shoot the Dog was in my LLL parenting library & got me started both on good parenting & good dog training :) 

[JustEm]

For my dd, the first line of defense is for me to reevaluate the day to determine the most likely cause of her behavior when I see she isn't at a meltdown yet but could be at one quickly.

 

So for example, she spent all day yesterday pestering siblings in a way she only does when something is off. Like she would purposely just take something out of someone's hands or blow in their face randomly. I was so tired that most of the day I didn't recognize it as an own going issue but just as individual events. It wasn't until my nephew told me she was chewing on a battery that I realized things have been brewing all day for her and she was about to explode. The battery chewing on is something that would directly involve a parent's attention instead of just poking at the other kids nerves. So when I heard she had the battery in her mouth I had to replay the last few days in my head and see what was different to cause her anxiety to be heightened. There were I few things, I've been working a lot and not home to cuddle at bedtime, she's been staying up later than usual, a new baby is coming in 3 weeks, and her brother has been talking about his upcoming bday a lot. All these things are triggers for her.

 

So instead of harp on the battery in her mouth I had her sit on my lap and asked her how she was feeling. She didn't respond so I asked if she missed me because I really miss her when I'm working so hard. She said yes and squeezed me tight. So I told her that once my pet sitting is done on Monday we can go out just the 2 of us for some special time together. I also asked her how she felt about her brother's bday. She said it just made her get more anxious for Christmas(another trigger.) She expressed being scared that she was going to ruin Christmas with her behavior. So we talked about ways we can be proactive about that so she doesn't have a meltdown and I assured her that if she had one it wouldn't ruin Christmas for anyone.

 

If I had reacted immediately to the battery in her mouth negatively then all hell would have broken loose and we would have both gone to bed in a terrible mood.

 

When she is in meltdown mode I go with her flow. If she needs to be alone I let her be alone. If she wants to destroy things then I stay close by and allow her to destroy things that arent needed but stop her when she is going to destroy something that isn't hers or is necessary. If she tried to hit I do have to restrain her safely but I talk lovingly while doing it and let her know I will let her go to be by herself or to cuddle if that is what she wants.

[6packofun]

Interesting article/interview. 

 

Not enough explanation of what to do when the child doesn't respond according to this psychologist's script.  (Give them a choice about getting ready to leave in your gentle voice and they still say no...over and over.  LOL) Perhaps there is a book that explains this better.

 

Also, I'd like to know what a parent IS to say or do when their child says, "You're a b*tch."  Ignore it because it's not a positive thing you can reinforce?  (Obviously yelling back at them or even explaining how that hurts you isn't an option, so I'm just wondering how many "Thanks for being at the table with us." comments it takes to reduce the anger or other reasons that we don't seem to be talking about that brings on "You're a b*tch." Is asking a teenager to express and explain why they say something too harsh on them?)

 

[maize]

Interesting article/interview. 

 

Not enough explanation of what to do when the child doesn't respond according to this psychologist's script.  (Give them a choice about getting ready to leave in your gentle voice and they still say no...over and over.  LOL) Perhaps there is a book that explains this better.

 

Also, I'd like to know what a parent IS to say or do when their child says, "You're a b*tch."  Ignore it because it's not a positive thing you can reinforce?  (Obviously yelling back at them or even explaining how that hurts you isn't an option, so I'm just wondering how many "Thanks for being at the table with us." comments it takes to reduce the anger or other reasons that we don't seem to be talking about that brings on "You're a b*tch." Is asking a teenager to express and explain why they say something too harsh on them?)

 

I think I would try to respond to "you're a b*tch" with emotional validation: "It sounds to me like you are pretty stressed/upset/angry right now." 

 

At a later unemotional time I would discuss appropriate and inappropriate use of language with them.

[hornblower]

 

Also, I'd like to know what a parent IS to say or do when their child says, "You're a b*tch."  Ignore it because it's not a positive thing you can reinforce?  (Obviously yelling back at them or even explaining how that hurts you isn't an option, so I'm just wondering how many "Thanks for being at the table with us." comments it takes to reduce the anger or other reasons that we don't seem to be talking about that brings on "You're a b*tch." Is asking a teenager to express and explain why they say something too harsh on them?)

 

I think techniques for a toddler or elementary school child or a child of any age with significant SN is different than a neurotypical teen. 

 

fwiw, I'd ignore. You can't fix it in the moment. (Unless you have an exceptionally lucky moment where you can defuse by laughing or joking or hugging or having a pillow fight or throwing a dinner bun at their head etc. )

 

& I would look at Gordon Neufeld's materials on relationship building with teens. His Making Sense of Adolescence dvd for ex. http://neufeldinstitute.org/category/dvds/

 

& check out Judy Arnall's Discipline without Distress. It has a chapter on teens. 

 

This is a good summary (just ignore the Steiner woo on that blog)

 

"The next part is sections is negotiate your “noâ€, focus on the child’s strength, speak respectfully (and insist on being spoken to respectfully), offer a one-time consultation, reflective questions (and I would add NonViolent Communication can be a good tool for those 14 and up), keep communication lines open, reconsider the situation with new information, have a few clear rules, decide what you will do, take a parent time-out, separate the big issues from the small issues (and mentions figuring out the three things you will uphold  no matter what), reduce the reasons for rebellion, respect privacy, change the environment, stimulation, model behavior, decide on problem ownership (this reminds me of Barbara Coloroso’s book), connect and then direct, problem-solve, use I-statements, active listening, spend time together, don’t lecture over a casual question about a “hotâ€topic, encourage capability, contracts, welcome your teenager’s friends,  developing humor and acceptance, and holding, cuddling and hugs (still important!)."

 

 

you'll see many of the ideas are essentially part of the ABC (antecedent, behavior, consequence) framework (change the environment, model bhvr, etc.) 

[Melissa in Australia]

For my older children a spanking made problematic behaviour magically disappear. 

 

 for the twins I am restricted in what I can do . I am not allowed to do time out or spanking ( and I do not think either approaches would work anyway. time out would just make them feel that another adult was rejecting them, and spanking would bring back trauma form their past)

 

Distractions do not work at all. they are using primitive brain as their default.

 

what I am doing is hand holding. especially with twin 1. We have found the key is to disengage completely from him and hold his hand ( restrain him) until he calms down. I usually sit down on a chair and pick a book up at random and pretend to be engrossed in it while he carries on. When he has calmed down enough to stop struggling then I give him a rocking cuddle and towards the end of the cuddle when he is able to start thinking again ( hopefully able to use upper brain) I try to describe ( with feelings) what he did and why I had to hold his hand.

 

If he does something very very wrong- like club goslings with a 2 by 4 then we are not able to stay calm and he finds himself very swiftly sat on a chair in the middle of the veranda while us the adults try to calm down. it is not so much as a punishment  ( Sitting on the chair) but keeping him safe while we calm down. Of course when he clubs animals he is in a different zone, and shuts down and cannot be talked to at all. We are seeking professional help for this 

[HomeAgain]

We use a combination of techniques from the How To Talk So Kids Will Listen..books, Kids Are Worth It, and Easy To Love, Difficult To Discipline.  Well, some days we do.  Some days are a total failure. :lol: They all sound quite a bit like the article, though. 

 

The most important thing I have learned, right or wrong, is to distance myself emotionally from the situation.  It is so blasted easy to get mad or frustrated if I feel invested in what is going on.  With tricky bits I make myself fall into robot mode: this is going to happen, you have these choices, absence of choice means this happens...etc.  and I refuse to care about anyone else's feelings on the matter.  Which sounds cold and harsh as I write it.  I don't think I have a way of explaining it that doesn't.

[AimeeM]

With a NT child, I would - when a meltdown is occurring - ignore.

 

With my SN child? The absolute only thing I can do at this point is hold him firmly in a "big hug" (his words; he likes to be held), not allow him to get away, and softly repeat things to him (he likes repetition, so I might say, over and over, "Marco is having a rough day; Marco feels like nothing is going his way!" followed by "When Marco is happy again, Marco and Ma can read Strega Nona" or whatever it is he might enjoy doing).

Unfortunately, though, there is absolutely no distracting him while he is melting. When he's in that zone, he's just there. We just have to keep him from hurting himself. He doesn't intentionally self-harm, but he throws himself around when he's melting and often ends up hurt depending on where he's melting. These can go on for 5 minutes or 20-30. Occasionally he vomits because he's so beside himself. Frequently, after a very long melt, he ends up with petechiae around his eyes.

 

So, I have no real answer to this question, other than that we hold on and wait it out. 

 

I'm hosting a party for some teens tonight, so I can't read the article right now, but I look forward to doing so later tonight.

[Plink]

Aimee, that technique is my failsafe too.  Showers, exercise, and crunchy snacks help when we are on the verge of a melt-down, but if it is already in full force hugs and patience are the only path through the storm.

[Melissa in Australia]

for meltdowns we have found that sometimes rolling up in a towel and doing soft chopping motions on all four sides helps reset.  But this is only for frustration meltdowns. after child has calmed down then we say  "remember we talk" because most often they have not asked for help in doing a task. 

[Innisfree]

I love hearing all these techniques. Thanks, guys!

[Xahm]

I love hearing these things. My kids don't seem to have any special needs but still respond well to these techniques. I'm thankful to have so many tools in my parenting toolbox. My parents were great, but I think having more positive parenting lets our house be much less stressful.