(update in #11) Accommodations? IEP or 504? Help me figure this out.

[shinyhappypeople]

[Making schooling changes, using a homeschool-charter...]

 

First thing to think about:  do I want a 504 or an IEP.  I 504 seems simpler and addresses things like testing accommodations for state tests.  Since I'm doing the teaching at home, it seems like that's all I would need, however I welcome input.

 

[Deleting the rest for privacy.  Thank you for understanding. :) ]

 

 

Edited February 17, 2017 by shinyhappypeople

[Julie of KY]

I'm not sure what to recommend in your situation, but thought I'd throw out some thoughts.

 

I have kids with various learning disabilities. None have an IEP or 504. I have written up my own "educational plan" documenting accommodations for college board testing and they have had formal testing from a psychologist for learning disabilities. My oldest did not have any trouble getting accommodations for ACT/SAT/AP exams. We've been told he won't have trouble getting college accommodations.

 

I'm not sure you need an IEP or 504, but it might be helpful for you.

 

Definitely document accommodations. Google the learning disabilities to get a better idea what might be offered. List every single thing you can imagine her wanting as well as what you do in real life.

 

Document her goals as little tiny steps - in real life you might have bigger goals for her, but on paper, I'd list smaller goals that are more likely to be attained. It's always better in a review to say she made more progress than less.

 

Accommodations my kids need:

Scribe

Typing on a computer

Extra time or unlimited time for test and assignments

Accept "messy" work if handwritten

Someone to read novels aloud - use Learning Ally

Extra breaks during reading/tests

Extra space on paper for handwritten projects

Calculator or multiplication table

Do much of the work orally

Limited writing assingments

 

I'm lucky in that I don't have to report to anyone else. I can set my own goals which are endpoint goals - college or life accommodations; skill sets for if not going to college; College board accommodations.

How I get there is not micromanaged by anyone else. Over time, I can push my kids and start to get outside help, but it is at my pace so I feel lucky about that.

 

[PeterPan]

Julie, your dc are in school?  I've seen online where homeschoolers consider IEPs and 504s in a homeschool setting as documentation/paper trail.  Shiny is needing to step that up though, because here the real question is what will an IEP *get* her.  And actually, she should dig in on her state laws.  In our state, we have an extensive, state-funded disability scholarship program.  You give up your FAPE and receive a scholarship, accessible through "providers", with category amounts based on the tier of your IEP.  In our state, that list of disabilities would put her at tier 2 or tier 3, a significant scholarship.  It would actually be more to her financial advantage, in our state, to take the scholarship than to use the charter.  Other states are doing these scholarships as well, and they are sometimes new or not well known.  It's definitely worth asking!

 

Next, you need to know the law to find out what your charter is REQUIRED to do.  Are they required to service the IEP?  Your student should qualify for an IEP if anything on that list affects her ability to access her education.  So, for instance, if she has dyslexia but is doing fine educationally with normal plans (no specialized services), then she is accessing her education and would not need an IEP.  However, if her dyslexia (or anxiety or SLD math or...) require specialized services, then she should have an IEP.

 

So the REAL question you need to sort out first is what, legally, should your charter be compelled to provide as a result of having disabilities requiring an IEP?  They receive state funding.  Are they required to provide intervention services?  Are they required to provide therapies?  That anxiety should have goals and could benefit from specialized services in an IEP.  That could be something you could compel the charter, if your law says so, to provide ON TOP of whatever else they do. 

 

So there is big money on the table when you look at IEPs, and the first thing to look at is what your legal position is and what the responsibility of the school is.  That's what I would encourage you to find out first.

 

The ONLY reason to sign a 504, in your position, is if you cede she requires no specialized services (tutoring, intervention materials, therapies, etc.).  That's absurd with that list and the recentness of your evals.  In all probability, you're currently using intervention materials.  In all probability, she would benefit from services for the anxiety.  An OT can do direct service (not consultative) where they work on self-regulation programs likes Zones of Regulation, size of the problem materials, etc. etc.  Sometimes it will be the SLP.  Doesn't matter.  The point is, if you sign a 504, you just SCREWED yourself for trying to get anything the charter was LEGALLY REQUIRED to provide.  

 

I would not assume the charter will be forthcoming on the law and what they are required to provide.  Their goal is to save money.  Your goal is to get everything you can to benefit your dc.  

[City Mouse]

In general, 504 plan provides for accommodation but the student is supposed to be working on grade level content with thos accommodations. So things like extra time, frequent breaks, audio support, large print could fall under a 504 plan, but the actual course content or grading expectations would be the same (for example She would be expected to produce the same level of written work, but might be able to type instead of hand write or even use speach to text software to produce a composition)

 

Modifications are changes to the curriculum to change the actual content covered or the level of product that is produced. (It sounds like your daughter is not able to do grade level work in some areas so she would probably need an IEP with specific goals in the areas where she is behind.

[PeterPan]

Some states have laws that allow you to get an IEP based on *discrepancy* between achievement and IQ.  

[kbutton]

In general, 504 plan provides for accommodation but the student is supposed to be working on grade level content with thos accommodations. So things like extra time, frequent breaks, audio support, large print could fall under a 504 plan, but the actual course content or grading expectations would be the same (for example She would be expected to produce the same level of written work, but might be able to type instead of hand write or even use speach to text software to produce a composition)

 

Modifications are changes to the curriculum to change the actual content covered or the level of product that is produced. (It sounds like your daughter is not able to do grade level work in some areas so she would probably need an IEP with specific goals in the areas where she is behind.

 

:iagree:   Commenting in your post below to show where I think you are wanting modifications.

 

First thing to think about:  do I want a 504 or an IEP.  I 504 seems simpler and addresses things like testing accommodations for state tests.  Since I'm doing the teaching at home, it seems like that's all I would need, however I welcome input. You probably don't qualify, but if a disability is severe enough, sometimes you get ALTERNATE testing. That's significant.

 

4. ???? How to accommodate  her current writing level?  She's learning to write a paragraph at the moment using the "hamburger" template.  This is clearly WAY below grade level for a typical 8th grader.  Also, she struggles with language in general (grammar, mechanics, spelling, and even, to a lesser degree, speaking)  She will always struggle, but I'm totally confident she'll make solid progress if we keep plugging away. Doing non-grade level work is a modification, and even if she catches up, she might need a reduced workload to keep up (for instance fewer assignments when possible, smaller number of problem sets in math, etc.). Sometimes, they will put in a 504 (I think) that the child spends x amount of time on an assignment vs. does x number of math problems in case that child is a super slow worker and also does not need as much repetition. I am not sure if the reduced workload is an accommodation or a modification.

 

5. ???? How to accommodate her math level?  This isn't quite as dire.  She'll be ready (or very close to ready) for pre-algebra by late spring.  Still a bit behind, but HUGE progress.  I'm proud of her :)  ETA:  I just remembered:  I want her to be able to use her multiplication table and other reference materials during math tests.  But, especially her multiplication table.  She cannot "show what she knows"  (e.g. she can multiply large numbers with decimals) without her table.  Is that even a possibility? Ditto for what I said about the writing.

 

My biggest fear is that the school will push her to "catch up" quickly.  NOTHING happens quickly with this kid, UNLESS it's internally motivated.  External stresses triggers a massive anxiety response and is completely counter-productive.  That needs to be serviced, like OhE said.

[lizlatorre]

I second the suggestion to look into whether or not your state has a disability scholarship. It has been the best possible scenario for us!

[OneStepAtATime]

Sorry to join in so late.  I can't think of anything useful to add that hasn't already been said but I wanted to send you hugs and best wishes.  I hope the process goes smoothly.  :)

[geodob]

Shiny, you asked if you want a 504 or an IEP ?

 

Where I've simply been looking at the development of Laws, since the 'Civil Rights Act of 1964' ?

Which lead to the 'Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990'.

Then to IDEA 2004.

Which started to make a more clearer distinction between, 'Medical Conditions' and 'Learning Disorders'.

 

Which is also where their was introduced the categories of Section 504, and IEP (Individual Education Plan).

Where it is important to understand the difference between a Medical Condition and a Learning Disorder?

 

As a Medical Condition may effect performance, while a Learning Disorder will effect cognitive processing.

 

Section 504, was specifically developed, to recognise any Medical Condition that effects 'Performance'.  

To provide appropriate support, that enables one to fully perform.

Which historically began with providing wheelchair access, to classrooms and the workplace.

 

It  would be ridiculous to deny someone 'easy wheelchair access', just because are smart and have good grades.

Yet students with 'medical conditions' , that are defined as 'other health impairments'?

Are often being denied support, because they are getting passing grades.

 

But the legal definition is: 'a medical condition that effects performance'.

Where a common topic raised here, is  Dysgraphia?

Which is often ejected, because it isn't a Learning Disorder.

Yet in fact, it can be diagnosed as a 'motor skill' medical condition, that 'effects performance'.

Which has to be legally recognised.  

 

So that coming back to: 'do I want a 504 or an IEP'?

It must be mentioned, that an IEP automatically includes any 504.

Where legally, the IEP is an extension of a 504.

 

As one can have a Medical Condition, as well as a Learning Disorder.

 

If your question of: 'Do I want a 504 or an IEP ?'

 

Was reframed as: 'Do I want support for a Medical Condition, or a Learning Disorder'?

The 'or' would disappear?

As the Anxiety Disorder and Convergence Insufficiency,  would come under a 504 Medical Condition.

While the Slow processing speed, SLD in Written Expression and Math, would come under an IEP as Learning Disorders.

 

Where it also needs to be highlighted, that the aim of education, is to help each individual realise their full potential.

To provide learning opportunities, that recognise learning differences.

[shinyhappypeople]

Wow, thank you all so much!!!  This is a lot of information to think about but now I feel like I kind of, sort of have a clue.  I'll probably be back with more questions soon.  

 

To be honest, I'm pretty nervous about homeschooling her through the charter again, but at least I'm wiser this time, and I can shield her (hopefully) from a lot of the stressful stuff.

 

Thank you :)

[shinyhappypeople]

Deleted for privacy.  Thank you for understanding :) 

Edited February 17, 2017 by shinyhappypeople

[OneStepAtATime]

Welcome to the world of educational bureaucracy.  Ugh!  Sooooooooo STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Who cares what is best for the child?  Let us work as hard as possible to blindly follow poorly thought out regulations and do our best to remain ignorant of better paths to follow.

 

I am sending my heartfelt sympathy and support.  

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[MooCow]

Ugh.....that sounds so horrible

[PeterPan]

*Technically* she's not quite telling you the law. You have the legal right to make a written request for evals, saying you suspect a disability. They then go through the formal process of having the meeting and turning you down. What they're saying is they want to do RTI. Can you demonstrate you've already done RTI? The law requires them to fit RTI *into* the IEP timeline. 

 

The law says they have to "consider" your evals. No, they don't have to use them. They merely have to demonstrate that they "considered" them.

 

I've forgotten the whole flow. She's enrolled? You're screwed. She's not enrolled? Why are we doing this. Ahh, you've enrolled her in a charter and want an IEP. What do you want to make happen with the IEP? The charter is probably showing their hand on what they'll do, as the same, incompetent person doing the RTI with non-evidence based materials is the same unqualified, letter-decorated, funded and financed with a retirement plan individual who will be doing her intervention when she has an IEP. And if she begins to make any progress and has less discrepancy when they eval, they will tell you that she merely needed RTI, had a sucky homeschooler education, is now able to access her education. They may offer to continue the lovely RTI indefinitely with no IEP.

 

For real, this happens. They're playing their hand, and either you want to play their game or not. You *do* have the legal right to request the evals now, but you would have to show that you've done the equivalent of RTI (have you? like you've done OG or paid a tutor?). 

 

Have fun. Snort. 

[Storygirl]

I understand your frustration. We went through the exact same thing. Well, not exact. In our case, we enrolled our children in private school, and the principal said that she was admitting them AS LONG AS we agreed to have them evaluated for IEPs. Perfect! We wanted IEPs. We had stacks of documentation and diagnoses of LDs (plus other issues) from neuropsychologists and other experts.

 

Yet a few weeks later at our meeting to consider our request for evaluations, the public school special ed coordinator denied our request. Because they had been homeschooled and didn't have "data" from classroom teachers yet. She said she would reconsider our request after the first nine weeks of school and said she was doing us a favor, since we had the documentation, because usually she made homeschoolers wait through an entire semester before agreeing to evaluations. Do you know what "data" from the teachers consisted of? She tried to make it sound so scientific, but their "data" was just their statement that they thought the student should be evaluated, because they saw that there were issues.

 

It was infuriating. I'm sorry you are dealing with the same kind of issue.

 

Under the law, yes, schools must CONSIDER outside evaluations, but they don't have to accept what they say, and they do conduct their own. I hesitate to say always. But yes, always.

 

 And part of the law says that there must be proof that the child had adequate teaching. That's another thing they can use as a kind of loophole. Because they could use the homeschool parent's information about how the child has been taught, but instead they say they need it to be one of their own classroom teachers.

 

I'm sorry you are getting the runaround. But I'm not surprised, sadly.

 

Why are you doing this again? Is the 504 not sufficient for what you need, if you plan to go back to homeschooling?

 

 

 

 

[Kanin]

OMG. This sounds incredibly frustrating!!

[shinyhappypeople]

 

Why are you doing this again? Is the 504 not sufficient for what you need, if you plan to go back to homeschooling?

LOL, that is an excellent question.  I asked myself that same question during the phone call. :) 

 

The 504 accommodations will probably be enough.  Originally we had intended to stay with the charter for a few semesters because our kids have expensive hobbies and we have a few bills I'd like to pay off quickly.  Um... nevermind.  We'll push through this semester and then we're GONE.  I haven't told them this yet.  

Edited February 7, 2017 by shinyhappypeople

[City Mouse]

Yep, that is public school.

[shinyhappypeople]

Deleted for privacy.  Thank you for understanding :) 

Edited February 17, 2017 by shinyhappypeople