8circles Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I was thinking about this thread and what the Dallas Police Chief said about asking the cops to do too much. “We’re asking cops to do too much in this country,†Brown said at a briefing Monday. “We are. Every societal failure, we put it off on the cops to solve. Not enough mental health funding, let the cops handle it. … Here in Dallas we got a loose dog problem; let’s have the cops chase loose dogs. Schools fail, let’s give it to the cops. … That’s too much to ask. Policing was never meant to solve all those problems.†Some of these issues come with the job and some do not. A good % of calls are related to mental health issues, there's no getting around that. So unless they plan to call someone qualified to deal with them, the police need to be able to handle these situations on their own. It's not ideal, but it is their job. And then there's this "Police officials also suspended Commander Emile Hollant without pay for what North Miami City Manager Larry Spring Jr. said were inconsistencies in his statements about the shooting. Officials wouldn’t elaborate. " I agree that handing over so many issues to the police to solve is problematic - that needs to be corrected wherever that's happening. But I think that's different than expecting police officers to be properly trained to deal with mental health issues, loose dog issues, school issues, etc ON THE JOB. These are things that police officers will encounter as they're doing their actual jobs - they need to know how to handle them. They don't need to be mental health professionals, but they damn well should know what to do when they encounter an autistic person with a toy truck in the middle of the road without shooting them or their caregiver. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El... Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I am close to someone who has done a lot of police training work. I'm baffled when I see some of the reports that LE don't get enough training; he does SO MUCH with each potential officer, riding along, coaching them, yelling at them, correcting them, encouraging them... it's hours, and then months of hours. Anyhow. He works a large county, and it takes a few minutes to get places. He's told me that when his trainee officer starts to drive fast to a call, he sometimes puts this country song, "I'm in a Hurry," on the car stereo. He knows, and teaches, that going fast is the way mistakes are made. He's very serious about making good officers; he's also a little creative about how he does it. He's a good teacher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 In some areas, at least, there is more than litigation that leads to officers covering up mistakes or even their own crimes :( There is the "brotherhood" that closes ranks when one of their own screws up. Not saying this is an issue everywhere, of course. Our city has been having issues with this the last few years. Some officers ethically disagree with closing ranks, of course, and they have come out and told the truth about situations or turned in their coworkers (and some have seen their job cut or responsibilities lessened because of it). A friend's DH was one that spoke out on a recent officer-involved ethics issue that became a full-fledged public scandal and he has suffered retaliation within the force as a result. Fortunately, it seems to be getting better because of the few good officers that are speaking up regardless of the repercussions.l And this is exactly why Black Lives Matter started. To ensure that police are accountable for egregious mistakes. Glad to see that the spotlight appears to be having some impact here. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 A good percentage of calls relating to mental health issues.... YES. This. In the broadest sense, my guess is the large majority of police calls are related to mental health issues. Anger management, poor frustration tolerance, substance abuse that starts as self-medication for a wide range of issues, learning issues which have not been properly addressed and lead to unemployment and poverty... This is all axiomatic, right? If we could ensure that all children had all these issues identified and addressed, isn't it pretty clear that the police work load would plummet? So I would think that police would need to assume that they are dealing with mental health issues constantly. Understanding how to do so should be an absolutely fundamental part of the job, not an extravagant extra. 'Course, proper funding and infrastructure to treat those issues before they reach the stage of needing police help would be nice, too. Very well said. I can testify from years of working with youth with mental health issues, that the way to escalate the situation is to do what it appears LEOs are trained to do: 1) Yell orders when someone is disturbed (instead, speak calmly; yelling raises adrenaline of both of you and it's actually harder to hear and process when someone is yelling) 2) Expect instant compliance even when there is no real reason to expect a threat (time is an ally; let them calm down, back off if you need to) 3) Quickly escalate your demands (ask, order, force) 4) Take any kind of aggressive stance (this includes yelling, standing over a subject, etc. (In fact, I was trained to SIT DOWN in a tense situation. This echoes the "on one knee and smile" of the link from Mrs. Mungo that I linked earlier about military de-escalation in civilian zones.) 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Very well said. I can testify from years of working with youth with mental health issues, that the way to escalate the situation is to do what it appears LEOs are trained to do: 1) Yell orders when someone is disturbed (instead, speak calmly; yelling raises adrenaline of both of you and it's actually harder to hear and process when someone is yelling) 2) Expect instant compliance even when there is no real reason to expect a threat (time is an ally; let them calm down, back off if you need to) 3) Quickly escalate your demands (ask, order, force) 4) Take any kind of aggressive stance (this includes yelling, standing over a subject, etc. (In fact, I was trained to SIT DOWN in a tense situation. This echoes the "on one knee and smile" of the link from Mrs. Mungo that I linked earlier about military de-escalation in civilian zones.) Just want to bring extra attention to this. Spot on. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Facebook statement made by the sister of the autistic man ... https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10209260642529215&id=1116417784&hc_location=ufi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 Facebook statement made by the sister of the autistic man ... https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10209260642529215&id=1116417784&hc_location=ufi oh that poor man. They handcuffed him too & left him in a car for hours? I'd be spitting mad. Probably suing mad. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 His sister's statement is heartbreaking. 4 hours in a car? And they knew he was autistic? Shees! I hope Mr. Charles and her brother both heal quickly. I also hope for a thorough investigation that gives us the reason an officer would make conflicting statements. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) I read that post and I have a question about reading rights to a person who doesn;t understand and what the protocol is. This autistic man doesn't seem to be very verbal and I seriously doubt he understands his rights. I don't even understand what he was going to be charged with. It is as if you found a toddler sitting in the street. You don't charge the toddler with a crime. This man does not seem to have the reasoning ability to consciously disobey a law about traffic. Unfortunately I have all too often heard about mentally ill/mentally handicapped getting treated badly by police, basically without any understanding. That is why I agree with Katie about hiring more college educated graduates. I am prior federal law enforcement and we had people who got in with college degrees or with prior service elsewhere. Generally, the smarter agents did better than the less smart ones. One specific feature of this was that the ones who didn't think as much tended to rely on stereotypes while ones who were more discerning could distinguish between people who were more likely to be violating the law versus the ones who weren't. We didn't carry guns where I worked so there was no issue of anyone getting shot. But harassed unnecessarily- yes. Some didn't seem to know that being pleasant and engaging in conversation was also a very effective way to get clues on intent and distinguish who should be further investigated and who can go on their way. Edited July 24, 2016 by transientChris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I also agree that more hires should be from graduates with criminal justice and psychology degrees. The local U's CJ degree includes basic psychology and abnormal psych course work as well as social work classes. It also includes internships with the probation department and community mental health.i think this is preferable for LEO's now that we have so much more knowledge about non neurotypical issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX Native Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Facebook statement made by the sister of the autistic man ... https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10209260642529215&id=1116417784&hc_location=ufi Just, wow. My heart is broken. The police didn't even believe the group home staff and kept the man locked up 4 hours after finding there was no weapon. Wow. Clueless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Just, wow. My heart is broken. The police didn't even believe the group home staff and kept the man locked up 4 hours after finding there was no weapon. Wow. Clueless! I have to disagree. They were not clueless. They were still trying to find a way to spin the situation. This was done with intent. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX Native Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) I tend to agree. Although I'd also never use the word clueless. Stupid, asinine, those seem to fit better. It's similar to the way the cops knocked Tamir's 14 year old sister to the ground, handcuffed her, and stuck her alone in the back of the police car where she watched her little brother bleed to death just 10 feet away. While the police did nothing. Clueless? That's way too kind of a word. You are correct. Stupid was the word I was looking for. The situation just sucks the life out of my vocabulary. ETA: actually HEARTLESS may be even closer to the actual word to describe the people who did that to the dear man. Edited July 25, 2016 by TX native 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Did you all watch the new season of Orange is the New Black? The season ender -- trying to avoid spoilers -- involves the authorities not acting for hours as they sit and try to think of how to handle a tough situation . Even though most anyone would think quick action was the only reasonable and compassionate response. I thought it was a little over the top ... But it's the first thing I thought of hearing about that poor man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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