Algebra and Geometry at the same time?

[Merry]

Well, my soon to be a tenth grader son still is only half way through Algebra 1 and he wants to take Geometry at the public high school this fall.  So would it work for him to continue and finish Algebra 1 this year at home while taking Geometry at the school?

[Julie of KY]

Geometry does require algebra. A good geometry program would need through the end of algebra 1 as it may require quadradics. I would talk to the teacher before starting geometry without having algebra completed.

 

It would be much easier to do geometry with algebra 2.

[Lanny]

Well, my soon to be a tenth grader son still is only half way through Algebra 1 and he wants to take Geometry at the public high school this fall.  So would it work for him to continue and finish Algebra 1 this year at home while taking Geometry at the school?

 

The way you phrased that ("still is only half way through Algebra 1")  leads me to assume that he is having difficulty with the Math course (Algebra 1) that is the foundation for just about everything.  I would suggest that he consider beginning with Algebra 1 when he is in 10th grade in the Public High School.  He needs to be very solid with Algebra 1...  GL to him!

[regentrude]

A good geometry course will require algebra mastery to a degree that the algebra can be applied to a geometry problem without the student getting bogged down in the algebra itself. The student should have mastered linear equations, systems of linear equations, and quadratics.

If your DS as you say is "still only half way" through algebra 1, this indicates to me that he is not a strong math student (unless he just started the algebra 1 course half way through the school year). If he has been working on it for the entire school year and not managed to complete it, he would benefit from receiving a more solid grounding in algebra before advancing.

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by regentrude

[Merry]

Thank you for your feedback, everyone.  My son had been a strong math student until his father passed away three years ago.  He did fairly well for the first two years after that but then he had a very rough year so he was unable to work consistently.  He is doing a lot better now but unfortunately he got behind.  He is willing to finish Algebra with me and then do Geometry with me also later in the year but he was hoping to take it at the public high school.  I'll share with him what you guys said.

[Arcadia]

What book is he using for Algebra and what book is the school using for Geometry?

I had a rough academic semester in 9th about 2.5 years after my grandpa passed. I caught up and overtook in a semester. Sometimes the biggest impact from grief isn't immediate. :grouphug:

[SkateLeft]

My younger daughter took Algebra 2 and Geometry simultaneously, which is what our local public school does for students who want to accelerate their math sequence. I don't know if that would be a possibility for your son, but it worked well here.

[Mosaicmind]

All 5 of my oldest kids took Algebra 1 and Geometry their freshman year and the classes were also honors. They all got A+ for both semesters of each class. My kids did just fine and they were encouraged to take them together.

[MarkT]

I do NOT recommend overlapping in math unless your student is a true genius. The sequences were created for a reason that works for most students.

[wapiti]

Doubling up the end of algebra with the beginning of geometry may not be a good plan for a student who has been struggling, but for a highly capable, motivated student, I'd look into it.

 

I think the answer depends on a few things, such as what point the student will be in the algebra program when geometry starts and whether that would be sufficient to begin while finishing up algebra 1 on the side during, say, the first 2-3 months of the school geometry course.  Some geometry programs will require solving quadratics earlier than others, a topic often covered toward the end of algebra 1.  Perhaps you could ask a math teacher at the school and find out what geometry text the school uses - teacher emails are usually available on the school website though it's not always easy to tell who teaches geometry.

 

Another issue is whether the school will let him simply sign up for geometry without passing an algebra 1 test, either a placement test or final exam.  It would be worth finding out before you get set on your plans.

 

(Also, obviously, the student should continue forward with algebra 1 over the summer, daily.  When does the PS begin?  We only have a few weeks but in other parts of the country there might be 6-7 weeks left.)

Edited July 16, 2016 by wapiti

[Janeway]

You know, after I think about it more, I bet your child can handle it. Just work extra hard to get through as much algebra as possible, and thoroughly, before school starts in the fall. With a month left, give or take, with hard work, he should be able to complete it. There are colleges that do one course at a time. And here, for us, community college just started second summer session. It will last one month and have an entire college class during that time. Some students take two.

 

The algebra in geometry is pretty basic. 

Edited July 16, 2016 by Janeway

[Arcadia]

As to the original question. It is possible to do both concurrently with a motivated student. If he hasn't learn something that he need from algebra in geometry class, nothing that hitting the books after school won't solve.

 

One of mine did aops geometry and algebra concurrently, and he is definitely not a genius, just too much free time :lol:

 

Another issue is whether the school will let him simply sign up for geometry without passing an algebra 1 test, either a placement test or final exam. It would be worth finding out before you get set on your plans.

I agree. Here schools start back in 4 weeks. Admin comes back 2 weeks before first day of school. OP would need to check with the high school counselor.

[Mike in SA]

Been holding off a bit to think about this one.  Both DW and I are experienced math instructors, and have seen this question come up a few times.

 

I, for one, actually like the idea of geometry *before* algebra, but it isn't easy to pull off these days.  A student needs a strong prealgebra program, and teachers who know when to defer topics normally taught in geometry.  Some old-school programs (Euclidean-style) require no algebra whatsoever, and some will actually introduce algebraic concepts from an applied perspective.  This approach can work, and it can be a differentiator.  A student who develops a foundation this way will be very well prepared for higher math.

 

Now, the tougher realities...

 

Though I don't buy into the theory that a kid has to be "more intelligent" to follow one route over another, the background DOES have to be in place to support a particular path.

 

In the case of the OP, where algebra was a struggle, it suggests that the pre-algebra foundation is lacking.  Without that, both algebra and geometry will be difficult.  It won't matter if algebra is done first, or geometry, because what is missing is an understanding of the nature of an abstract system, the composition inherent in a mathematical symbol - be it a number, a variable, or a compound expression.

 

Ordinarily, given enough time, I might suggest either trying a challenging pre-algebra, or pausing to do some number theory if there is a perceived stigma in doing prealgebra.  Either would make up for the lacking foundation.

 

When we have been asked to work with an 11th or 12th grader who has been struggling, and looking to make a last-gasp push, we have occasionally had to turn to an adult remedial textbook for enrichment.  If we can identify and remediate the missing concepts quickly, there is good hope for recovery.  If not, then we really hope to at least place the student in a good position to succeed in the remedial course we expect they will need in college.

 

For a 10th grader, there is still plenty of time to recover, but recovery should be the point.  Don't try to push forward - try to recover lost concepts, and then accelerate.  There probably won't be time to side-step to number theory.

 

Algebra in 10th, geometry in 11th, and algebra 2 in 12th will get a kid into college; if the goal is to finish precalculus, then geometry and algebra 2 can be doubled up (with the added benefit of giving some cushion in 12th should one or the other linger).  These are all common scenarios for students, gifted or not.  What I recommend in this case is to go back to chapter reviews from prealgebra, find the missing foundation, and correct it.  Then, review the first half of algebra (via chapter reviews), and solidify.  Then, complete algebra 1.  For the prealgebra review, make sure you use a good mastery-style text, because mastery is absolutely the point here - not a complete redo of a spiral program.

[katilac]

What about finishing up with ALEKS? I generally use it as a supplement, but I'd be willing to use it to finish up algebra in a case like this. It will also help shore up any pre-algebra weaknesses. 

 

I suggest it over continuing with the text because it generally takes less time, because they assess for prior knowledge. The assessment itself will give you a good bit of information. 

 

My oldest missed a few topics in algebra 1 (she was taking forever to finish) and went on to do really well in geometry and beyond. She had a strong foundation but it was a rough year emotionally, very up and down in what she was able to tackle day to day. If you think it may be the same for your son, I'd not hesitate to git-r-done with algebra and move on. 

[J-rap]

Are you working on Algebra now over the summer?  Maybe you could get a good chunk done this summer still, and then finish up in the first quarter of the school year, while starting Geometry.  Geometry will probably feel fairly easy at the start.