Would You Be Interested/Offended if this Club Were Offered?

[Guest]

Get to know people because you genuinely like them - not because they fill a quota. The person who told me "I"m glad that you and your husband are our friends. I didn't have any friends in inter-racial marriages before you" - is not a close friend. I felt like she focused on things that we don't even think about.

This is one thing I worry about, though. I don't want it to seem as though I am "collecting" friends of a diverse profile. So, supposing I meet an AA woman and I like her and we have a couple things in common, I might be thinking, "I wouldn't mind asking her out to lunch and maybe form a closer friendship." But I am worried that it will be perceived as sycophantically trying to buddy up to her so she can be my token black friend.

 

I've thought the same thing with a woman I am friendly with who rides a motorized scooter. I don't want her to think I'm trying to "collect" a friend with a physical disability.

[poppy]

This whole thread is interesting to me since I never thought about people being a different race, they are ...people. Of course I live in a state that is diverse, even our farily small town is diverse.

I think - as far as children are concerned - we lead by example.

 

Years ago when ds attended private school (I think 3rd grade?), he had a good friend. This boy happened to be the son of  African Americans. Now my ds is the child of two Caucasians and was as bleached blond as they come in his younger years. During open house at the school, the little friend's parents and dh and I were talking to each other when my ds wanted to introduce a new teacher to us - his parents. He pointed dh and me out very specifically, then added that the other parents were friend's parents. It never occurred to him that the teacher may come to the conclusion that friend belongs with the African American couple...because he was just another kid and we were just two sets of parents.

 

That's the ideal. But I am going to guess you are white, since being colorblind is something people of color don't really have the option to do.

 

Case in point... Philando Castile.  Even putting aside his tragic death, he was pulled over by police an astounding 52 times in14 years.  This was someone with no criminal record. He ran a cafeteria in a Montessori school. He had a preschooler.  He was apparently a nice regular guy.   My husband is white, is 10 years older, drives too fast (IMO), I think he's been pulled over once?   I have been pulled over twice in my life. 52 times is crazy.   But it was reality for him, and I'm sure many others as well.

[poppy]

Our church has a group with that exact name. Wondering if we go to the same type of church....

 

It is a UU church.   Unitarian Universalist- which is a fairly active group in tackling issues of social and racial justice (it's fairly central to our mission overall).

Maybe some of the UU resources could be useful to the OP: http://www.uua.org/multiculturalism

[Daria]

This is one thing I worry about, though. I don't want it to seem as though I am "collecting" friends of a diverse profile. So, supposing I meet an AA woman and I like her and we have a couple things in common, I might be thinking, "I wouldn't mind asking her out to lunch and maybe form a closer friendship." But I am worried that it will be perceived as sycophantically trying to buddy up to her so she can be my token black friend.

 

I've thought the same thing with a woman I am friendly with who rides a motorized scooter. I don't want her to think I'm trying to "collect" a friend with a physical disability.

 

I absolutely understand these fears.  I think that many many well meaning white people experience similar fears.  However, I think that it's important to take steps that can make us uncomfortable.  

 

Racism (and ableism, but that's a whole different conversation) is a powerful dynamic in our country.  It's not just the sum of the actions of individual racist people, it's a current that runs through our culture and sweeps all of us along with it. People who would never consciously engage in racist thought or racist actions can unintentionally contribute to or participate in racism simply by avoiding discomfort.  

 

So, while I understand your discomfort with the possibility of being judged, I also think that subjecting ourselves to discomfort is part of the process of change.  

[Daria]

That's the ideal. But I am going to guess you are white, since being colorblind is something people of color don't really have the option to do.

 

Case in point... Philando Castile.  Even putting aside his tragic death, he was pulled over by police an astounding 52 times in14 years.  This was someone with no criminal record. He ran a cafeteria in a Montessori school. He had a preschooler.  He was apparently a nice regular guy.   My husband is white, is 10 years older, drives too fast (IMO), I think he's been pulled over once?   I have been pulled over twice in my life. 52 times is crazy.   But it was reality for him, and I'm sure many others as well.

 

I've been pulled over 5 times in my life.  

 

The first three times took place over the course of my first 15 years of driving.  Each happened after I had done something that was absolutely against the law.  Once, when I was a brand new driver, I drove right through a red light.  Another time I drove the wrong way on a one way street.  The third time, I was well over the speed limit in a residential neighborhood.  Each time, I was either alone in the car, or I had another white person in the passenger seat.  

 

Each of those traffic stops went the same way.

 

The officer approached my car calmly, almost apologetically.

 

He quietly explained what had happened, calling me "Ma'am" in the process.

 

He then gave me a ticket or a warning, apologized sheepishly for having to do so, and wished me a safe journey.

 

Between March of 2012 and January of 2013 when I sold my car, I was pulled over twice.  

 

Once, it was for "stopping over the line" at a stop sign.  I had actually stopped at the line, realized that a large bush on my right side was obstructing my vision and rolled forward before stopping again to check that no traffic was coming.  

 

The other time it was because one of those little lights that shines on one's rear license (yes, one of like six) was out.  

 

Both times the officer approached my car angrily.  The first officer stayed angry.  He demanded to know what I was doing in that neighborhood, and why I had chosen to drive on a residential street.  He seemed very skeptical when I explained that it was the shortest route between my kid's Tae Kwon Do class and my house, both of which were also in residential areas.   When he asked for my license and registration, he told me that if it wasn't up to date he could "Call CPS and send that kid back to foster care".  

 

The second experience went a little better.  The officer was clearly shocked to see me behind the wheel, but then calmed down and spoke to me respectfully, but the tone of his first words stuck with me. 

 

Do you wonder what happened in March of 2012?  My son, who is AA, turned 13 so I started letting him sit in the front seat.  Both officers approached from a position on the right hand side of the car.  They would have seen him before starting the stop, but wouldn't have seen me until afterwards.  

 

I know how to behave at a traffic stop, and during the last two incidents I was very aware that I was modeling for my son how to behave at a traffic stop.  But the tone both officers took was so different and scary, that it threw me off and I struggled to remember where my license might be, or to put words together coherently.

[QueenCat]

It is a UU church.   Unitarian Universalist- which is a fairly active group in tackling issues of social and racial justice (it's fairly central to our mission overall).

Maybe some of the UU resources could be useful to the OP: http://www.uua.org/multiculturalism

 

I thought so ;) We go to a UU church too. Great idea to give the OP that link!

[gardenmom5]

This whole thread is interesting to me since I never thought about people being a different race, they are ...people. Of course I live in a state that is diverse, even our farily small town is diverse.

I think - as far as children are concerned - we lead by example.

 

Years ago when ds attended private school (I think 3rd grade?), he had a good friend. This boy happened to be the son of  African Americans. Now my ds is the child of two Caucasians and was as bleached blond as they come in his younger years. During open house at the school, the little friend's parents and dh and I were talking to each other when my ds wanted to introduce a new teacher to us - his parents. He pointed dh and me out very specifically, then added that the other parents were friend's parents. It never occurred to him that the teacher may come to the conclusion that friend belongs with the African American couple...because he was just another kid and we were just two sets of parents.

 

this.

 

when 2dd was in elementary, she had some kid ask her what it was like being white.   2dd has no guile, and was the sweetest kid you'd ever meet.  she was open to everyone, etc.  the question upset her greatly because she didn't understand what it meant.  I asked her what race the kid was - she didn't know.  I asked her what the kid looked like, "she had black hair".  to her, that kid was 'just another kid', and hair color was the only difference she could see. 

 

2dd's bff from around that time (when they first had a class together) is Korean.  mind you, they're now 30 and both live in texas. (the closest they've been geographically in 12 years)   they were friends because of what they have in common.

 

eta: to her as a child,  'race' = what part of the world your ancestors came from. (again, we're in a very diverse area, and many are first generation in the US.)  it was no different than what part of the world different plants grow or animals inhabit.

Edited July 11, 2016 by gardenmom5

[mamiof5]

Get to know people because you genuinely like them - not because they fill a quota. The person who told me "I"m glad that you and your husband are our friends. I didn't have any friends in inter-racial marriages before you" - is not a close friend. I felt like she focused on things that we don't even think about.

Could not agree with this more! First of all, I never thought of the interracial marriage ordeal til I read a thread here. Dh is from US (and has some German ancestors generations back), I am Hispanic (no idea about my ancestors). I always chuckled at our strong headedness, and realized, of course, we were raised differently and in different cultures...but that's about it.

 

None of my friends are my friends to "fit their Hispanic/multiracial" quota. Yes, we talk about it sometimes, each other interested in our upbringing, our lives when we were children etc, but never to point out our race.

[mamiof5]

Answering the OP question. No, I wouldn't be interested. I know you have good intentions, but for many reasons others have posted, I just wouldn't be.

 

I don't know, it just doesn't give me a good feeling to start a group with the purpose of pointing out racial differences. It wouldn't offend me, but I just wouldn't have any interest in it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

This is one thing I worry about, though. I don't want it to seem as though I am "collecting" friends of a diverse profile. So, supposing I meet an AA woman and I like her and we have a couple things in common, I might be thinking, "I wouldn't mind asking her out to lunch and maybe form a closer friendship." But I am worried that it will be perceived as sycophantically trying to buddy up to her so she can be my token black friend.

 

I've thought the same thing with a woman I am friendly with who rides a motorized scooter. I don't want her to think I'm trying to "collect" a friend with a physical disability.

 

Well, it's not like they are so dumb that they can't figure out if you are sincere.  And it isn't like they are obligated to have a closer friendship if they don't feel the same way towards you.  Just see how it goes.  And really before long you won't think of the person as "my black friend" (or whatever) but just "Ann" or "Sue".  It's not that you won't still know what their race is, but it becomes just one of many descriptors of who they are and certainly not one that defines them. 

[Homebody2]

Why not start a Roots and Shoots group?

www.rootsandshoots.org

 

Make it an inclusive group designed for families who want to serve their community. Depending on the projects you choose to do, you'll be exposed to all kinds of new places, ideas, etc.

[Pen]

Get to know people because you genuinely like them - not because they fill a quota.  The person who told me "I"m glad that you and your husband are our friends.  I didn't have any friends in inter-racial marriages before you" - is not a close friend.  I felt like she focused on things that we don't even think about. 

 

 

I agree with that. But also it could help to try to deliberately strike up conversations etc. with people who don't fit with one's usual whatever it might be type of group... and then look for areas of interest and genuine liking.

 

Or, in other words, I think it is hard to genuinely like people before getting to know them.   If "genuine liking" precedes getting to know the other person, then the apparent genuine liking is apt to be from an outward impression like same  church attended, or similar style of dress or something pretty superficial--just as superficial as trying to get to know someone to diversify types of people with whom one has formed friendships. So, personally, I don't think some conscious expansion and diversification of people with whom to start up getting to know each other is a bad thing.

 

In the case you refer to above, did you feel like the person who made the statement about inter-racial marriage was a friend but then changed you mind because of the statement, or did you already not feel so close a friendship existed even before the statement?

 

And might the friendship be deepened by expressing exactly what you expressed here--that it is a focus that you don't even think about?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I agree with that. But also it could help to try to deliberately strike up conversations etc. with people who don't fit with one's usual whatever it might be type of group... and then look for areas of interest and genuine liking.

 

Or, in other words, I think it is hard to genuinely like people before getting to know them.   If "genuine liking" precedes getting to know the other person, then the apparent genuine liking is apt to be from an outward impression like same  church attended, or similar style of dress or something pretty superficial--just as superficial as trying to get to know someone to diversify types of people with whom one has formed friendships. So, personally, I don't think some conscious expansion and diversification of people with whom to start up getting to know each other is a bad thing.

 

In the case you refer to above, did you feel like the person who made the statement about inter-racial marriage was a friend but then changed you mind because of the statement, or did you already not feel so close a friendship existed even before the statement?

 

And might the friendship be deepened by expressing exactly what you expressed here--that it is a focus that you don't even think about?

 

I have no "usual type of group" unless you want to say that my usual group are intelligent people with a good sense of humor and a relaxed attitude toward life.  There are people who fit that description in all racial groups.  I'm one of those obnoxious people who chats easily with whoever is around.  Some of those chats have led to casual friendships and some have led to deeper ones. 

 

The person who made the statement about the inter-racial marriage was actually a former boss of mine who has kept in touch.  We're Christmas card friends.  She wanted more getting together (part of that same conversation about inter-racial marriage).  I haven't pursued it and have kept it at Christmas card level.  If she had said "I enjoy talking to you so much" or "isn't it great how we both have an interest in xyz" then I wouldn't think it weird even if she had a comment or question about my marriage or my growing up in another culture at some point.  But the only thing she mentioned was my marriage so that felt weird to me because it singled that out about me. 

 

In actual fact, I rarely think about my marriage as being inter-racial.  I mean, obviously I know that it is.  And there are cultural dynamics at play esp. when we get together with extended family.  But it isn't a qualifier that I normally put on my marriage. 

[Pen]

My family has a lot of intermarriage and has had since one generation older than I am, so that by my generation we have a pretty big mixture, and even more so for the next generation down.

 

That said, there can still be some surprises of understanding things, like for example, a relative of mine who looks very white was in an area that he often is with no trouble, but went there with a friend who was also mixed, but looking more black, and they got hassled by police for doing nothing in particular.

 

My ds looks quite brown and I have to be aware of perceptions and issues because they can be life or death for a brown teen boy.  I'd like to be able to be blind to this. But that is not reality.  A friend from college who is black and wealthy said he thought that he'd be insulated by wealth and status, but they aren't.

[poppy]

this.

 

when 2dd was in elementary, she had some kid ask her what it was like being white.   2dd has no guile, and was the sweetest kid you'd ever meet.  she was open to everyone, etc.  the question upset her greatly because she didn't understand what it meant.  I asked her what race the kid was - she didn't know.  I asked her what the kid looked like, "she had black hair".  to her, that kid was 'just another kid', and hair color was the only difference she could see. 

 

2dd's bff from around that time (when they first had a class together) is Korean.  mind you, they're now 30 and both live in texas. (the closest they've been geographically in 12 years)   they were friends because of what they have in common.

 

eta: to her as a child,  'race' = what part of the world your ancestors came from. (again, we're in a very diverse area, and many are first generation in the US.)  it was no different than what part of the world different plants grow or animals inhabit.

 

I think that's totally appropriate-- for children   This is how my kids currently are.  Ages 6 and 8.  They do not really recognize a difference between their dark-skinned friend who moved here from India and their dark skinned friend who is African American.

 

We've been listening to the Hamilton soundtrack, though, and watched a few clips, and that has introduced some interesting conversations about history and race.  The most likable character is an ardent advocate for abolition. Plus Thomas Jefferson is insulted for having slaves..... but I didn't inform my kids what the reference to "Sally" was about.

[SKL]

I never tried to become friends with a person of any color.  Friendships happen or they don't.  Someone makes a crack that the other person finds funny, or helps with a little thing, or just puts off a good vibe.  We make eye contact and smile and the rest is history.  Or the vibe isn't so good and we move along.

 

IME it isn't necessary to understand each person's lived experience in order to become friends.  That said, I'm a person who is very curious about cultures and backgrounds, so it ends up being part of our relationship to the extent the other person wants that.  Granted, it takes me time to learn where a person is coming from.  But then, all of us have our own package of experiences we bring.  It's not like white people all have a standard common life experience.  There are things to discover on both sides; otherwise, what is the point of friendship?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I've been pulled over 5 times in my life.  

 

The first three times took place over the course of my first 15 years of driving.  Each happened after I had done something that was absolutely against the law.  Once, when I was a brand new driver, I drove right through a red light.  Another time I drove the wrong way on a one way street.  The third time, I was well over the speed limit in a residential neighborhood.  Each time, I was either alone in the car, or I had another white person in the passenger seat.  

 

Each of those traffic stops went the same way.

 

The officer approached my car calmly, almost apologetically.

 

He quietly explained what had happened, calling me "Ma'am" in the process.

 

He then gave me a ticket or a warning, apologized sheepishly for having to do so, and wished me a safe journey.

 

Between March of 2012 and January of 2013 when I sold my car, I was pulled over twice.  

 

Once, it was for "stopping over the line" at a stop sign.  I had actually stopped at the line, realized that a large bush on my right side was obstructing my vision and rolled forward before stopping again to check that no traffic was coming.  

 

The other time it was because one of those little lights that shines on one's rear license (yes, one of like six) was out.  

 

Both times the officer approached my car angrily.  The first officer stayed angry.  He demanded to know what I was doing in that neighborhood, and why I had chosen to drive on a residential street.  He seemed very skeptical when I explained that it was the shortest route between my kid's Tae Kwon Do class and my house, both of which were also in residential areas.   When he asked for my license and registration, he told me that if it wasn't up to date he could "Call CPS and send that kid back to foster care".  

 

The second experience went a little better.  The officer was clearly shocked to see me behind the wheel, but then calmed down and spoke to me respectfully, but the tone of his first words stuck with me. 

 

Do you wonder what happened in March of 2012?  My son, who is AA, turned 13 so I started letting him sit in the front seat.  Both officers approached from a position on the right hand side of the car.  They would have seen him before starting the stop, but wouldn't have seen me until afterwards.  

 

I know how to behave at a traffic stop, and during the last two incidents I was very aware that I was modeling for my son how to behave at a traffic stop.  But the tone both officers took was so different and scary, that it threw me off and I struggled to remember where my license might be, or to put words together coherently.

 

Daria, this post is so upsetting. I'm so sorry that this is your experience.