Ancients for 11 yr old

[Flowergirl159]

I asked recently about books for my DD11 to read before she hits grade 7. We are studying Ancients, so last night I borrowed some of those books from a family member. 

 

She informed me that these would not be suitable for my 11DD. She thought they would have suited teenagers. If we follow the 4 yr history cycle, she will not get to ancients again until grade 10, so she could read them then. But what do we do now?

 

These are the books I am referring to:

Mara, Daughter of the Nile

The Golden Goblet

A Single Shard

Beyond the Desert Gate

God King

The Trojan War

Hittite Warrior

Theras and His Town

The Bronze Bow

 

Thanks :)

[HomeAgain]

Um....my kid read most of those at age 11-12.  He didn't care for Hittite Warrior, though.   Why don't you read through a few yourself and see how they are?

[Kfamily]

Hmmm, I would have thought that these choices would have been just right for her age.

 

If you are wanting to eliminate a couple and would like suggestions for replacements, I would look at a retelling of the Odyssey with The Wanderings of Odysseus by Rosemary Sutcliff and a retelling of the Aeneid with In Search of a Homeland: The Story of the Aeneid by Penelope Lively.

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Kfamily

[Sherry in OH]

I would skim through the books and then decide on a title by title basis.  If you decide the Trojan War is not suitable, consider Black Ships Before Troy.

 

A previous poster mentioned in Search of a Homeland.  Other tiles we liked included Shapeshifters: Tales from Ovid’s Metamorphoses, by Adrian Mitchell, Jamshid and the Lost Mountain of Light, by Howard Lee, Odyssey by Gillian Cross and Ludmila Zeman's Gilgamesh trilogy.

 

 

[ScoutTN]

Make your own judgments.
What is appropriate for one family or student may noy be for another. On terms of reading level, those are fine.

My Dd, who just turned 11, enjoyed several of those this past year. We did Sutcliff's retellings as RA for the Iliad and the Odyssey. I decided to wait on Mara because of the romance element. 

Seconding Zeman's picture book trilogy of Gilgamesh. Dd also read McCaughrean's and we discussed differences.

 

My 10 y.o. Dd's opinions:

The Golden Goblet -  good, not great

The Bronze Bow - excellent

Hittite Warrior - very good

Theras (and Lysis and other Caroline Dale Snedeker books) - ok, very easy. We did a couple of these as RAs.) 

 

She also read:

The Aeneid for Boys and Girls by Church

Tales from Ancient Egypt by Roger Lancelyn Green

Julius Caesar

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2016 by ScoutTN

[Flowergirl159]

Thanks for your thoughts  :)

 

Is there anywhere I may be able to locate the issues that are dealt with in each book? Perhaps a para on themes that may potentially not be suitable?

[SebastianCat]

All of those books are included in Sonlight Core G, which is for ages 11-13.   My kids have done/will do that core at age 12, so I don't think they are grossly inappropriate for an 11 year old.   Some of the content might be a bit intense or inappropriate for an individual 11 year old, but not as a general rule for the age.   (Example - when my DS read this SL Core, I substituted The Cat of Bubastes for Mara because I felt that Mara was a bit too focused on the romance and was more of a "girly" story.   My DD will read this Core starting this fall, and she will read Mara.)

 

I recommend that you pre-read them and decide for yourself.   Since you know your child and we don't, that's really the only way to make a truly informed decision.  I enjoyed all of them!

[HomeAgain]

Thanks for your thoughts   :)

 

Is there anywhere I may be able to locate the issues that are dealt with in each book? Perhaps a para on themes that may potentially not be suitable?

 

There really aren't any themes that aren't suitable in them.  Read them.  Then go back and ask the person who told you not to, why not.  And if you don't want to read them, read other books you expect your child to read in place of them.

[Tess in the Burbs]

We did those at 11. Mine hated Mara. We loved Hittite Warrior. Sonlight uses many of them for their middle school levels.

[EndOfOrdinary]

I think the issue might be one of the many issues with Classics. As an adult, I get a very different type of information from the Odyessey than my son did at 7 when he first read it. It was an adventure story. When he read it again at 9, it was about the social and cultural messages. When he does it again at 13 or 14, he might begin to understand the sexual and sexist tones that I got out of it as a late 20 something female.

 

If I was thinking he would read into the sexual aspects, it was completely inappropriate for a 7 year old. That washed over his head. It was not relevant to him, so the information was discarded. The Sylla ripping the arms off a guy was fantastic for my 7 year old boy.

 

Ds (now 11.5) just read Catcher in the Rye for the first time. There is a prostitue in the book. It initially made me a bit leary. What did Ds get out of it? "No one seems to listen to Holden and he just is frustrated that no one is willing to see the way he sees the world." Ds found what he wanted from the book. It spoke to him, not the prostitute.

 

So yes, those books have content or themes that if read completely in the original probably would be considered questionable. That doesn't mean they are inappropriate. It just means you should ask the questions about what the student got from the book first. It was a shift for me, but it has really been helpful.

[2_girls_mommy]

Agree with above.  Mine read many of those in grades 5-6.  We are coming up on Ancients again, and my upcoming 7th grader will be getting a lot of those listed.

[Lori D.]

I asked recently about books for my DD11 to read before she hits grade 7. We are studying Ancients, so last night I borrowed some of those books from a family member. 

 

She informed me that these would not be suitable for my 11DD. She thought they would have suited teenagers. If we follow the 4 yr history cycle, she will not get to ancients again until grade 10, so she could read them then. But what do we do now?

 

These are the books I am referring to:

Mara, Daughter of the Nile

The Golden Goblet

A Single Shard

Beyond the Desert Gate

God King

The Trojan War

Hittite Warrior

Theras and His Town

The Bronze Bow

 

Thanks :)

 

Setting aside Beyond the Desert Gate (sequel to Ides of April), which has a middle-school *reading* level, but more of a high school/adult *interest* level, and is sometimes scheduled for high school, sometimes middle school… All the rest of those books are spot-on for grades 5-8, a few for grades 6-9 -- all very safely within range of an average 7th grade reader. :)

 

All of these books are scheduled in the middle school levels of more than one history-based homeschool curricula: Sonlight, Tapestry of Grace, Biblioplan, Pandia Press' History Odyssey, Memoria Press... (The only program I see using several of these books for high school is Beautiful Feet Ancients -- which is really a grade 5-8 program PLUS a high school program in one guide and with one pack of books. As a result, it is very lite and gentle for high school, which would be fine for a remedial student, or one not interested in History, or if needing a lite "get 'er done" History program for a high school credit.)

 

It's very kind of your relative to loan the books, but perhaps it's been awhile since she has read the books herself and doesn't quite remember the reading level and interest level very accurately? Or she used them with a student who was reading way below grade level, or with a student who did not enjoy reading, and so needed to use gentler/easier books for the older teen student? 

 

Whatever the reason, I agree with previous posters about all of these books being age-appropriate and nothing unsuitable subject-wise. If your student is reading at grade level, she is absolutely ready for these books, and will likely enjoy several of them a lot, if she enjoys historical fiction. :)

 

Enjoy your journey through the Ancients! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Lori D.

[kiwik]

I haven't read that many of them but 'the bronze bow' is good and a quick read. You have several months so put aside a couple of hours each week and read them. If you can't make it past chapter 3 reconsider. There are new versions of the Sutcliffe retellings with illustrations available from amazon now which look good (black ships before troy has been renamed the illiad - guess they thought it would be clearer).

[kiwik]

I haven't read that many of them but 'the bronze bow' is good and a quick read. You have several months so put aside a couple of hours each week and read them. If you can't make it past chapter 3 reconsider. There are new versions of the Sutcliffe retellings with illustrations available from amazon now which look good (black ships before troy has been renamed the illiad - guess they thought it would be clearer).

[Lori D.]

Is there anywhere I may be able to locate the issues that are dealt with in each book? Perhaps a para on themes that may potentially not be suitable?

 

The very best option is to preview for yourself, as you know your student the very best, and also know your family values, and esp. what your goals are for discussion and Literature, and by previewing, you can see how a specific book fits in or does not fit in with your goals for Literature. :)

 

Just so you know, I am a conservative Christian and I totally understand wanting to know if there are intense/mature or difficult topics that my child might not be ready for, and while Common Sense Media and Plugged In are Christian websites which can be helpful, it is often only in a limited way. I tend to avoid the "checkmark-only" types of reviews which ONLY tally up "checkmarks" for cursing, violence, s*x, etc. IMO, those are not reviews, as they do not go into thoughtful depth about the purpose and themes of a specific work of Literature, how well or how poorly the book was written, and whether or not the book achieved its goals. (Note: Plugged In, and Common Sense Media, do sometimes provide family discussion questions or talking points, which is helpful.)

 

Other "checkmark" websites I have run across are JUST about "checkmarks" in a handful of "hot spots" for Christians (drugs, alcohol, s*x, violence). While this is well-meant, it often is misleading, as it takes events or words in the story out of context, and can make very minor/passing comments in the book suddenly appear as if that type of comment or attitude or worldview makes up a large part of the content of the book. Further, the "checkmark approach" completely misses the real point of Literature -- as to whether or not the book is well-written, is discussion-worthy, or is useful in guiding students through thoughtful wrestling of real-life ideas and themes. JMO! :)

 

Below are a few reviews from a variety of individuals, many are homeschoolers. Very few of these are actual reviews with thoughtful discussion about the book (so, not sure that these are going to be significantly more helpful), but they do describe what's in the book and provide one opinion about the book, which sometimes indirectly provides insight into suitability or potential interest for a student.

 

 

BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

Mara Daughter of the Nile -- Dear Author blog, book review

Golden Goblet -- Gloria Romanorum book description & brief review; Michelle Isenhoff book description & brief review; Scribd chapter summaries

Single Shard -- Kirkus Reviews very brief description and review

Beyond the Desert Gate -- Gloria Romanorum book description & brief review, Love 2 Learn book description and brief review

God King -- With Open Hands blog very brief book description and opinion

Trojan War -- Kirkus Reviews very brief description and review

Hittite Warrior -- Reuben Horst (homeschool student) blog book description and review

Theras and His Town -- Learning Resource Directory, book description and review

Bronze Bow -- Storypath, book description, review, discussion question ideas

Edited July 9, 2016 by Lori D.

[Flowergirl159]

Setting aside Beyond the Desert Gate (sequel to Ides of April), which has a middle-school *reading* level, but more of a high school/adult *interest* level, and is sometimes scheduled for high school, sometimes middle school… All the rest of those books are spot-on for grades 5-8, a few for grades 6-9 -- all very safely within range of an average 7th grade reader. :)

 

All of these books are scheduled in the middle school levels of more than one history-based homeschool curricula: Sonlight, Tapestry of Grace, Biblioplan, Pandia Press' History Odyssey, Memoria Press... (The only program I see using several of these books for high school is Beautiful Feet Ancients -- which is really a grade 5-8 program PLUS a high school program in one guide and with one pack of books. As a result, it is very lite and gentle for high school, which would be fine for a remedial student, or one not interested in History, or if needing a lite "get 'er done" History program for a high school credit.)

 

It's very kind of your relative to loan the books, but perhaps it's been awhile since she has read the books herself and doesn't quite remember the reading level and interest level very accurately? Or she used them with a student who was reading way below grade level, or with a student who did not enjoy reading, and so needed to use gentler/easier books for the older teen student? 

 

Whatever the reason, I agree with previous posters about all of these books being age-appropriate and nothing unsuitable subject-wise. If your student is reading at grade level, she is absolutely ready for these books, and will likely enjoy several of them a lot, if she enjoys historical fiction. :)

 

Enjoy your journey through the Ancients! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Wow! Thanks so much again Lori :)

 

My daughter will be 12 in December. Yes my daughter is reading above grade 6 level. :)

And yes she loves historical fiction! Especially any books that are on the Sonlight reader list (they are her favourite). All of these are on the Sonlight reader list, so will most likely love these ones too.

 

I really appreciate the effort you put into providing that information, I feel settled in trying these books. :)

 

I had noticed that a lot of lists included these books, so was a little confused.

 

Thanks so much.

[Flowergirl159]

Just saw your second post! 

 

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

 

Going to check out those reviews now :)

[coloradomomof5]

I bought these and the BF guide to go with the kingfisher world encyclopedia for my 5th grader for the fall.