How to encourage dd about going to cc before university...

[DoraBora]

Hello all:

 

My husband and I decided several years back that we could pay for three years of living-out-of-town university for each of our children. We told them this, and let them both know that we would be happy to help them work toward earning scholarships if they wanted to go away for freshman year. Otherwise, we plan for them begin their studies at our local community college.  (We are fortunate to have easy access to two different community college districts, each of which has an excellent transfer agreement with all of our state's public universities.)

 

My dd will be a senior this fall, and she has begun to express that she's feeling blue about "everyone" else going away for freshman year.  In theory, I think our plan is smart (for us), but in practice, it is painful to listen as she describes how left out of the excitement she feels.  I guess I feel a bit worse because she thinks she missed out so much in high school because we wouldn't send her to ps.  In truth, our area has a million opportunities for homeschoolers, most of which she has been unwilling to pursue.

 

I wish I could think of a way to make our plan more interesting, but I can't.  It is sort of uninspiring to start at cc and transfer to university... at least as compared to the paths of many of her friends.  

 

Has anyone dealt with his/her children having such feelings?  Does you have any words of encouragement I can offer to my dd?

 

Thank you in advance...

 

Dora

[momma2three]

Why not let her apply to the schools she wants to go to, and see if she gets financial aid?

[DoraBora]

Thank you.  I didn't make this clear...  She hasn't really worked toward gaining admission to a four year school.  When she started some SAT prep sophomore year, she gave up before she started.  She said, "I'm never going to earn a scholarship!"

 

She is regretting that decision now, and I guess I just thought it was too late for her to even try at this point.  She's taken the PSAT twice, but hasn't actually attempted the SAT.

 

It does seem that our state universities don't offer a lot of scholarships, but she might try for a smaller, private school...

 

 

[regentrude]

Thank you.  I didn't make this clear...  She hasn't really worked toward gaining admission to a four year school.  When she started some SAT prep sophomore year, she gave up before she started.  She said, "I'm never going to earn a scholarship!"

 

She is regretting that decision now, and I guess I just thought it was too late for her to even try at this point.  She's taken the PSAT twice, but hasn't actually attempted the SAT.

 

Why too late? She can still take the SAT or the ACT at the earliest fall test date and that will be in time for regular admission, just not for early. It is barely July now, so she would have plenty of time to study if she chooses to give it a shot.

 

There is currently a similar thread on the Collegeboard subforum; check it out.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

You might tally up how much in real dollars your plan has you paying.  Would the same amount of money pay for 4 years if she earned certain levels of scholarships.  (Just as an example, one school ds applied to awarded about 1/2 tuition based on SAT scores and gpa.  This brought the tuition down to under the in state rate for him as an OOS student.)

 

You might also consider if having her do dual enrollment at the CC this year would be a good fit.  She could attend CC courses, earning both college credit that would transfer and high school credits that you could put on her homeschool transcript.  DS1 did this and had around 25 college credits when he graduated from high school.  Some of it will not apply to his 4 year degree (ex. Pre-Calculus since he's a College of Engineering student), but he will have met his freshman Chemistry requirement, as well as a couple other graduation requirements.

 

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thank you.  I didn't make this clear...  She hasn't really worked toward gaining admission to a four year school.  When she started some SAT prep sophomore year, she gave up before she started.  She said, "I'm never going to earn a scholarship!"

 

She is regretting that decision now, and I guess I just thought it was too late for her to even try at this point.  She's taken the PSAT twice, but hasn't actually attempted the SAT.

 

It does seem that our state universities don't offer a lot of scholarships, but she might try for a smaller, private school...

 

If she is a rising senior, then make sure that you get her scheduled for one of the first fall SAT and/or ACT dates.  Even though a few schools are score optional, the majority want to see the SAT or ACT.  It tends to be even more important for a homeschooler.

 

On the other hand, CC admissions often don't care about the SAT/ACT scores.  

 

Have you sat down with her and looked at what she could/would be taking at the CC?  Have you walked around or taken an orientation tour?  That might help her to picture where she will be.  In our area, there is still time to register for dual enrollment for the fall.  There is definitely time for enrolling in the Spring semester.

[DebbS]

Would she be able to take all of her classes at the cc this year as a dual credit student? That way she could get her 1st year of college out of the way and still qualify for freshman scholarships at the 4 year university.  Although the first SAT isn't offered until Oct 1st, many universities don't require the SAT/ACT scores to be sent prior to or even with the application. So, you can still make the early application deadline and they will wait for the test scores before they make the admissions and scholarship decisions.

 

If your daughter is indeed interested in this plan and is willing to do what it takes to accomplish it then maybe this would be a good compromise. She'd probably want to self study for the SAT and/or ACT this summer to make sure that she does her best on the tests since she'll probably only have one shot at it for scholarship qualification purposes. Then she'd have to keep her grades up at the cc because they will figure into her high school GPA.

 

So...if she really, really wants to go the away from home route and she demonstrates the maturity to achieve it (yep - I'm the mean harsh person from the other thread), then this wouldn't cost you any more than you had originally planned. In fact, some community colleges have lower or state subsidized tuition for highschool students so it could save you money.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I say, let her try.  If it doesn't work out, she has the option you have offered her.  Trying isn't going to set her back for that idea right?  So no harm in aiming for that goal and going for it.

 

 

[justasque]

 

 

SAT prep can be a big huge deal, or it can be skimming the first chapter of a test prep book so you know the basic format of the test, and winging it from there.  While I'm not recommending the latter, I wouldn't stop a student from taking the exam just because the prep was minimal. We never did extensive prep at my house and we did just fine.   And I certainly wouldn't go the CC route just because there had been no SAT prep.  How did she do on the PSAT?

 

I agree with a previous poster that it may be worth considering starting at the CC for senior year dual enrollment.  It will give her a headstart at the cc, and give her a boost to her applications to uni.  (Only go this route, though, with a course load that is likely to result in good grades.)

 

Meanwhile, there's no reason your dd can't do the traditional senior year stuff - looking at colleges, going to Open House days, running the numbers to get a sense of possible aid amounts, looking closely at various majors at different schools, understanding what classes they entail and what kinds of jobs students get upon graduation.  She can make a list of schools she'd like to visit, and then a list of schools to which she'd like to apply.  You might find that there's actually a uni out there that is affordable.  Or you might find that the cc is a great place for your dd to start college.  

 

There are a lot of possible routes for your dd; some may be viable (financially, academically, socially), others may not be, but you dont' know which are which until after you've gathered information, visited some schools, applied to a few, and seen the financial aid awards from those schools.  Explore them together.  Don't limit her options before either of you know what her options really are.  If you go through this process, she may end up at a good-fit uni at a good price, or she may end up at the cc as planned.  Either way, evaluating the options will help both of you to be sure she is choosing the best path she has available to her.

Edited July 5, 2016 by justasque

[Vida Winter]

Is there a particular part of the country she is interested in?

[MomatHWTK]

It sounds like she is feeling hopeless because you've already planner her life for her and its not the life she wants. She's almost an adult, it is time to let her decide her goals. Plan for her to take the SAT and stop telling her that nothing is possible except to do it your way.

[katilac]

Another thought: paying one's way through college is certainly not as easy as it used to be, but it sounds to me like what your daughter would need to earn is just the difference between 4 years on campus vs 3 years on campus and 1 year of CC at home. 

 

One year of campus living plus one year of costlier tuition can certainly be a good amount, but I'd say it's a doable amount for a motivated teenager who is willing to work over the next couple of years and (possibly) take out a small loan. Actual part-time teen jobs are tough in my area, but my kids could be earning cash if they were willing to do yard work or babysit. 

 

It's probably time to quit talking about feelings and just discuss the facts: This is how much money we are willing to give you per year. Look at some 'away' schools and figure out the difference for that first year, and then decide if you want to work towards it. Her PSAT scores should give her some idea of whether scholarships are likely, unlikely, or somewhere in between.

 

If she has a decent shot at qualifying for scholarships at certain schools, that could be very motivating to prepare for the fall ACT. If her chances are slim to none, then some of that prep time might be better spent working. 

 

Tuition varies a lot. Room and board charges vary a lot. Talk in terms of money per year, not how many years at home versus how many years away. 

 

Keep in mind that some kids need more scaffolding than others. We all want them to work towards independence, but planning one's higher education and taking high stakes tests can be stressful! You can't always just hand them a prep book and an internet connection and say, knock yourself out, kid. You might need to do some of the preliminary research. You might need to set up a schedule for both research and prep. 

 

It's barely July before her senior year. There is plenty of time for her to pick up some work. There is plenty of time for additional research and test prep. I would not drag her through it kicking and screaming, but definitely I would be willing to do some of the initial legwork and figuring, so that I could tell her whether I thought it was possible or not. 

[Haiku]

We told my oldest dd (now 22) how much we could afford to give her each year for college. It was up to her to do what she wanted with it. We told her that she could live at home and we could pay for the first two years at community college (essentially two free years of college for her) and then she could transfer to a four-year school, either the local university (live at home and graduate with nearly zero debt) or somewhere where she had to live on campus (significantly increase the amount of debt she'd take on). Like your dd, she was unthrilled with the CC idea. She ended up going to a small liberal arts college. She got a huge amount in scholarships even with a very (very very) unimpressive ACT score, but due to the extremely high per-year cost she has still had to take out loans. She worries about it, but she made her own choice, so we don't stress about it.

 

I would encourage you to allow your dd to take ownership of her college decisions. Instead of telling her what she will be doing and where she will be going, you could tell her how much you can afford to give her to help with tuition/room and board and allow her to make decisions about how to spend it. 

 

I was told where I could go to college. I was given two choices. I was not allowed to attend the school I really wanted to attend. It worked out fine, but I still think it was the wrong move on my parents' part. It was my education, not theirs.

[DoraBora]

Thank you to all who have posted your thoughts and advice.  I am grateful for the shared wisdom...

 

I didn't include information about the conflict my dd and I have had over the last several years.  Our interactions have been stormy, but they are improving.  Because of this, efforts I made to early on to help her plan a schedule of preparation for the SAT or ACT fell flat.  She has been unwilling to work on test prep at all, and I think she feels that choice is coming back to haunt her.

 

I don't remember who posted upthread that I need to let her make her own choices and quit planning for her (or words to that effect), I really am trying in my spectacularly flawed way to let her make her own choices.  She is still growing up and is quite emotional.  So, this past year, when I stepped back to let her make her own choices about school (stopped making suggestions on how she should study), her grades dropped -- problems with friends had upset her derailed her concentration.  That's not the end of the world, and I told her so.  I want her to make her own way, and I never TOLD her I thought anything was impossible.  I was worried in my own head that it was too late at this point to try for partial scholarships.  

 

The whole point here is that my husband and I have saved and prepared to cover the rough COA for three years at a state university in Texas. She can look at any university in which she's interested, but we will only pay for three years of in-state.  (We've saved for tuition with the Texas pre-paid tuition plan.)   I'm also emotional about this because I want her to be happy and contented.

 

If she feels hopeless, I don't know what to do to help her.  She is a bright, talented girl who works hard when she is interested in something.  I encourage her often and let her know I love her every day.  I want her to fly... she just isn't showing me that she is able to do so just yet.  I know I could arrange a study schedule for her and teach her to prioritize her time, but she won't appreciate that.

 

She works part-time (only on Saturdays during the school year, because that's all she can handle; as many hours as they will give her during the summer). 

 

She is already signed up for six hours of dual credit in the fall, and she is actually excited about that.  I am thankful!

 

You have all given me much to think about.  Thank you again for the wonderful ideas!

 

... and regentrude... you made me laugh.  You mentioned the similar thread on the College Board subforum...  I started it and promptly forgot I had done so!  Holy cow!   :lol: 

[lmrich]

Could she go on to state university as a freshmen, and save to pay for her last year to avoid taking out so many loans?  She can earn credits this semester and next at the CC and maybe even take a course each summer  while still working. I know by the time I got to my junior year in college I was so much better able to balance everything - I got an apartment with friends (cheaper than dorm + meal plan) and worked 18 hours a week and kept up my grades. If I had to attempt that my freshmen year, I would have been overwhelemed. Who she is now and what she can do now, is not who she will be later. Two years is a lot of time to mature. 

 

I completely understand her wish to start as a freshmen; it is a big deal in the hearts of high school seniors to go away for school. My own dd thinks that going to a local school which has a great reputation would look "loserish" even though I would make her live on campus.  I do not see it that way, but I understand that she needs to be happy to be productive. 

 

[Tess in the Burbs]

Well, after my parents divorce mom said I could live at home and go to the local college.

 

I waited tables. A lot. Worked my butt off.

 

Paid my own way to a 4 year school. She didn't want me to go. I had to beg her for a ride there?!?!?

 

You made it clear what you can offer. If she wants otherwise she can do it. Academic or financially. It's all how badly she wants it. I did a lot of crazy, impossible things in my life when my parents said no 😉

[Haiku]

 

I want her to fly... she just isn't showing me that she is able to do so just yet.  

 

 

It may be helpful to remember that lots of parents feel that way about their teens. I was often in despair over my teen; she seemed so flaky and out of it, and I couldn't imagine how she would get it all together to succeed at college. Yet, she has. Had I forced my vision of what was best for her, I would have cut her off from a lot of opportunities and possibilities.

 

My dd and I also had (and still have, to some degree) a very conflictual relationship. In fact, she no longer lives at home in the summers because we have such a hard time living together. I'm sure that some of my beliefs about my daughter were based on our interactions and a failure to recognize that interpersonal conflict between teens and parents doesn't necessarily indicate how well a teen will navigate life outside her parents' home. (Interesting side story: yesterday my dd and I drove across town to pick up a friend of hers who was having a huge conflict with his parents; I spent some time talking to this young man and trying to help him see that some of what he was experiencing was not really outside the realm of normal friction between young adults and their parents [although unfortunately, in his case, another part of what he's dealing with is simply his parents' bigotry].)

 

I wouldn't worry so much about her ACT/SAT test prep and readiness. That is something that she has to take responsibility for herself. She should definitely take one of the tests, whether she has prepped for it or not, and see how she does. She may be pleasantly surprised, or she may find herself dealing with the consequences of her own inaction. Either way, it's a step in the direction of being responsible for herself and her choices.

 

I frequently tell my kids, "If you say you want to do something but aren't willing to do the work necessary for it, then you don't really want to do it, you just think it's a nice idea." That happens sometimes. It's a life lesson. 

 

In your situation I would suggest to dd that she look at come colleges she is interested, find out what she would need to do to achieve admittance, write up a sample budget for paying for it, and figure out where she wants to go from there. I remember that my dd told us that all her friends' parents were paying for them (completely) to go to school wherever they wanted to go (not true, of course), and she thought we were so mean that we wouldn't do that for her. No matter how many times we tried to explain to her that college was ridiculously expensive, that tuition/room and board had gone up 300% in 20 years at he school I went to and 250% over 20 years at the school dh went to, and that wages had stagnated or fallen during that time, and that very, very few people could afford to pay for college outright, it wasn't until dd made up a chart of the schools she was interested and saw for herself the sky-high prices that she developed some perspective on the matter.

 

Good luck!

[justasque]

... I remember that my dd told us that all her friends' parents were paying for them (completely) to go to school wherever they wanted to go (not true, of course), and she thought we were so mean that we wouldn't do that for her. ...

 

And, as we found, many kids start out looking at the high-profile schools, and even get accepted, but by May many of them have looked hard at the financial picture and made the quite sensible decision to go to the local state uni. 

 

No need to decide now.  Cast your net wide, look at a variety of schools, let dd apply to a variety of schools, go to Open House days and Accepted Student days and ask a ton of hard questions, and once the aid packages are in hand, sit down together and make a decision.  Just make sure 1) she knows there will be financial limitations, and 2) she applies to at least one school where she's likely to get in *and* likely to be able to afford it (and ideally, will actually want to go there).

[katilac]

 

 She should definitely take one of the tests, whether she has prepped for it or not, and see how she does. She may be pleasantly surprised, or she may find herself dealing with the consequences of her own inaction.  

 

I would not wait and take an actual test; she can take a practice test right now and get some solid information. Wherever her scores land, she can use that information to prep for the real test (with another practice or two in between). 

 

And this is quibbling a bit, but I would caution people against taking a low or lower-than-expected score as automatically "the consequences of her own inaction" or such. Test prep certainly can help you, but it's not going to move someone who naturally falls in the 60th or 70th percentile to the 90th percentile. 

 

Yes, there are always exceptions, and I'm all in favor of a moderate amount of test prep, but plenty of students work very hard and still don't qualify for scholarships. It's smart to maximize your chances for a scholarship, but no amount of studying can guarantee it. 

[...................]

I think this kind of one-option parenting can be really depressing to a young person 17 or 18 years old.  

 

My son is going into 9th, and we live in probably THE hardest state to transition from homeschool to college, in the country.  Yet, we have not forced him to think "I can only do CC and then transfer"  Instead we have sat down with him (multiple times, because it's a lot to take in), and laid out the options.  In fact, going into 9th we still aren't sure what the future holds because a lot of it depends on him.  If he pursues a LOT of testing, AP exams, etc. then he can go straight to university.  If he would rather focus on actually *learning* and studying, then he will need to finish two years at CC and then transfer.  EVEN THEN, we found out recently, he can complete two years at CC ans STILL apply as a freshman, if he wants. If he chooses an inexpensive state university, his debt won't be so bad.  Right now he actually WANTS to attend community college.  He plans to start early, and looks forward to spending time actually learning in high school rather than studying for tons of difficult tests....

 

Financially, we are pretty sure we can handle their room and board.  They will have to pay for their own books with summer jobs, and take out loans.  We will encourage them to get part time work-study to help with miscellaneous expenses.  The actual tuition will be their own debt.

 

Such is life...it's their choice.  If they want to take the bull by the horns and run with it,you should really let her!

 

  It won't kill her to be a little in debt. 

 

 

[Mike in SA]

Lots of ideas, but the other option: CC can be a GREAT choice!  Teaching at a cc is frequently better than at a four year institution (yes, there are the Ivies, etc, but we aren't talking about those).  Why?  Because at unis, there is tremendous pressure for profs to produce - research, books, something.  Teaching is not the priority for many.  Many courses are largely taught by TAs.  Honestly, I've seen a fair number where the TA was better than the sponsoring prof.

 

At a CC, teaching is the ONLY objective.  So, the kids get better attention.  Plus, classes are smaller, and professors are actually available. 

 

I know a number of very successful people who began via the CC route, and finished up at a four-year.  For a couple, the CC route opened the door to small private schools that might not have accepted the student out of HS.

 

Scholarships are not usually as good, but the pool for transfer students is not nearly as competitive.  So, in the end, overall costs can be lower, and the final degree can come from a more prestigious school.  Once you have that degree, the AA degree doesn't mean much.  But, I would advise pursuing the AA with fervor, as it will set the stage for further work.

 

 

[chiguirre]

You're in Texas? Then CC is a fabulous place to start, both for DE and her freshman year. You need 42 credits to be Core Complete. Those credits always include 6 American or Texas history credits and 6 American and Texas government credits. They usually include 2 composition classes and a public speaking class. You need at least one math class and two science classes. There are art, social science and humanities requirements and often a phys ed/nutrition class. If you fulfill all the requirements at any Texas CC or public university, the whole 42 credit chunk transfers completely whether or not the requirements line up exactly. 4 DE classes and one year of CC will allow her to be core complete and keep her options open at any university and major in the state.

 

There are many transfer agreements and you can always check to see if something transfers using the TCCN numbering system. Also, UT-Austin admits many kids to their CAP program where you attend another UT (basically all of them except Dallas) for your freshman year. If you get a 3.2 on classes that count toward the core, you automatically transfer to UT Austin your sophomore year. If you're in Austin, there's a similar deal with Austin Community College. If you're in Houston, you can simultaneously apply to Lone Star or HCC or San Jac and U of H at the same time. You save money on the courses you can take at CC and are guaranteed transfer if you meet the minimum gpa.