How do you know if you have a 'Mastery' or 'Spiral' kid?

[happynurse]

I know some folks put no stock in the 'mastery' vs. 'spiral' categories. But I also know a lot of folks do and I read about it frequently here on the boards. 

 

My oldest will be starting some gentle pre-k/kindy work this fall. We're planning to start with Rightstart Math, mostly because of its game based nature and the scripting (which will be helpful for this momma). 

 

Anyway, ultimately I gravitate toward spiral math materials because *I* would think the frequent review would be helpful. However, at 4 years old my son has managed to memorize all 50 states and their capitals, all the continents and oceans, almost all of the countries of the world, as well as all the planets, dwarf planets and every single bone of the body (by their actual medical terms). :huh:  Letters and their sounds were thoroughly memorized by the time he was two. All this completely by himself based on his own ever-changing interests. I didn't really do squat except provide him the books/videos he was interested in. (I'm not sure if he's gifted or just capable of memorize a lot of stuff).

 

Does this sound like mastery to you? Do you think this would be a child who would die in a spiral-type program and thrive in mastery? Because I always think of 'frequent review' as a good thing, because that's what I'd need, I'm wondering if this type of child is what those here on the board would consider 'mastery' minded. 

 

Thanks for your advice!

Edited June 16, 2016 by happynurse

[Guest]

I'm no expert, but my son has an amazing memory and memorized similar things at a young age and still to this day. I prefer spiral math, and he has done fine with it. I'd recommend what you are comfortable with it to start with and consider changing *if* you saw a problem.

[happynurse]

I'm no expert, but my son has an amazing memory and memorized similar things at a young age and still to this day. I prefer spiral math, and he has done fine with it. I'd recommend what you are comfortable with it to start with and consider changing *if* you saw a problem.

 

Thank you for your reply. I think the reason I'm thinking so hard about it is because *I* wouldn't be successful with a mastery program, so I have a hard time imagining that it may work for my child! Silly, I know. Again, thank you!

[LinRTX]

My daughter is great at memorizing and has been from a young age. But she needed a spiral math program to keep the math concepts in her head (not just memorizing the facts). I jumped from spiral to mastery program one year -- worst mistake ever. She needs spiral. Only time will tell with your child.

 

[SilverMoon]

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Edited Thursday at 01:04 AM by SilverMoon

[Arcadia]

Both my kids are mixed mastery-spiral depending on subject matter. My hubby is totally spiral, he would probably end up with a C instead of an A if he use a mastery style.

 

Most of my extended family have photographic memory, including my elderly aunts who had only finish elementary school. They could easily past history and geography exams by memorizing the night before :) My mom passed her nursing written exam purely through memory.

 

My kids had memorized the 50 states for a public school assessment and then promptly forgot most of it because they have no interest. All I know is that they can memorize for the sake of passing a test. My kids can't remember names of clouds when tested for public school science and apparently few kids care enough to remember.

 

My youngest could not tell time regardless of mastery or spiral. He finally get the concept of reading an analog watch much later.

 

I won't worry at 4 years old about choosing mastery or spiral curriculum. I would be prepared for moms in real life and teachers thinking and commenting that your child is hothouse.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think you can turn either focus into something that is workable.  Meaning if there isn't enough review, you can add review.  If there is too much review, you can cut back.  Many books I think are in the middle with this.  Plus even if there is a heavy mastery approach, a lot of the beginning stuff is really the same main concepts of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division.  For example, Singapore is said to be more mastery based because they teach a topic for awhile and then move onto another topic.  But the topics aren't radically different.  So one chapter might be straight up addition and subtraction, but then the next might be adding and subtracting weights and measurements which is really still just adding and subtracting. 

[MerryAtHope]

I don't think programs are always distinctly one or the other--a lot of mastery-based programs incorporate ongoing review. I think sometimes it's easier to look at other factors that are important to you and your child, rather than focus on just this. I also think it sometimes takes a few tries to find the right math program. I'd start with one and see how it works--for me, that was the best way to see what my child needed. 

[Ellie]

When I was homeschooling, "spiral" and "mastery" were never discussed. I still don't think it makes that much difference, especially when there isn't complete agreement on which product fits which category. I think it makes a difference in how the material is presented, not whether it's "spiral" or "mastery."

[Lori D.]

Agreeing with previous posters that most programs actually are a bit of a mix of both, with "mastery" programs having quite a bit of review and having a very big picture "spiraling back" to topics each year to go deeper with them.

 

Also agreeing with previous posters that what will be more helpful as your child gets older is what type of math explanations/instruction or point of view is the best fit for the student.

 

If you are super-concerned with spiral vs. mastery, you can try out Miquon Math in another 1-2 years, and try it both ways (spiral and mastery) to see if your student has a preference. Miquon is set up with 6 workbooks, and you can either spiral -- complete a workbook at a time, which will cover a variety of topics and then the next workbook "spirals back around" and covers those topics again at a deeper level -- or go for mastery -- follow a topic from workbook to workbook until your student "hits a wall" with the topic, and then go back to the first workbook and start a new topic to follow from workbook to workbook.

 

 

...We're planning to start with Rightstart Math, mostly because of it's game based nature and the scripting (which will be helpful for this momma). 

 

...at 4 years old my son has managed to memorize all 50 states and their capitals, all the continents and oceans, almost all of the countries of the world, as well as all the planets, dwarf planets and every single bone of the body (by their actual medical terms).  :huh:  Letters and their sounds were thoroughly memorized by the time he was two. All this completely by himself based on his own ever-changing interests...

 

If anything, I'd say it might depend on the *why* your DS memorizes so easily as to what math program will be the best fit for DS. Is it part of his nature to analyze and try and figure out the "why" of things? Or is the memorizing coming as a by-produce because he's noticing "big picture" overall patterns to things? You might find that the reason "why" DS memorizes so easily and naturally might be a sign that DS is more analytical in math approach -- and less interested in hands-on and games of Right Start. Or, he may latch on to the abacus part of Right Start and love the discovery aspect of it… Or, any one of a dozen other reasons why, and Right Start may be perfect, or a complete bomb. DS is awfully young still, and no way of knowing -- and no point in worrying -- until you get there. ;)

 

Actually, your DS sounds very bright and interested and eager, and he'll probably do great with any number of math programs, so presentation style will likely not be a problem for you -- and much less will mastery vs. spiral likely be a problem! BEST of luck in your future math adventures and in your homeschooling journey! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Lori D.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah I don't really even know where people get off claiming that Singapore is mastery based.  There is a lot of review in those books.  No it is not quite like Saxon, but it reviews and the concepts build on each other.  Most of the concepts aren't radically different from one another.  Adding numbers, adding weights, adding up the sides of a rectangle to figure out perimeter, adding money, adding time...how are these radically different?  They aren't.

 

And then I googled "mastery based math" and I'm starting to wonder if mastery based really means something different than the way we are using it here.  It is often explained as a program that is more concept based than other programs (some programs rely more on memorization of facts and procedures).  So even if mastery based means this, I can't think of any program that is 100% mastery based or a 100% spiral.  At least not at the elementary level.

 

 

 

[happynurse]

 

 

 

 

 

If anything, I'd say it might depend on the *why* your DS memorizes so easily as to what math program will be the best fit for DS. Is it part of his nature to analyze and try and figure out the "why" of things? Or is the memorizing coming as a by-produce because he's noticing "big picture" overall patterns to things? You might find that the reason "why" DS memorizes so easily and naturally might be a sign that DS is more analytical in math approach -- and less interested in hands-on and games of Right Start. Or, he may latch on to the abacus part of Right Start and love the discovery aspect of it… Or, any one of a dozen other reasons why, and Right Start may be perfect, or a complete bomb. DS is awfully young still, and no way of knowing -- and no point in worrying -- until you get there. ;)

 

Actually, your DS sounds very bright and interested and eager, and he'll probably do great with any number of math programs, so presentation style will likely not be a problem for you -- and much less will mastery vs. spiral likely be a problem! BEST of luck in your future math adventures and in your homeschooling journey! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Thank you! I really do need to figure out the 'why' of it all. Being new to this, it's not as easy at it sounds, is it?! He'll just get really into a topic (often introduced through a story, TV show or abcmouse.com or something, and then just take off with it. And even when he moves on to something else, he doesn't ever have much trouble remembering anything he's already learned. That's what led me to thinking he may be 'mastery' minded, and I feared spiral might bore him. Thus far he seems to be kind of Type-A and inquisitive as to how everything actually works (within a 4 year old maturity level, of course). Hmmm...I'm talking this out in my head as I type, can you tell?!? Ha! Thank you again for giving my brain some direction!

[happynurse]

THANK YOU all for your replies. I've been thinking about it because, in a perfect world, I'd like to 'start the way I hope to finish', without having to make tons of curriculum changes (especially for math) if I don't have to. It sounds like this isn't information that I *should* know by now. I was kind of beating myself up for not being able to figure it out. ;) When I hear people say, "You need to know your child's learning style", I start feeling bad because I am still trying to figure out what the heck that is.

'

Edited June 16, 2016 by happynurse

[SparklyUnicorn]

THANK YOU all for your replies. I've been thinking about it because, in a perfect world, I'd like to 'start the way I hope to finish', without having to make tons of curriculum changes (especially for math) if I don't have to. It sounds like this isn't information that I *should* know by now. I was kind of beating myself up for not being able to figure it out. ;) When I hear people say, "You need to know your child's learning style", I start beating myself up, because I am still trying to figure out what the heck that is.

'

 

Sticking to one elementary program is ideal, IMO.  That said after getting my first kid through an entire math program I felt more confident to try other things with my second kid.  I probably could teach him elementary math without any textbook at this point. 

[Arcadia]

. Thus far he seems to be kind of Type-A and inquisitive as to how everything actually works (within a 4 year old maturity level, of course).

Since he is an early reader and inquisitive, try the Young Math books and then there are other books recomended under Living Math

 

Young math book titles. Your library might have most of the books

http://www.valerieslivinglibrary.com/math.htm

 

Living books reading list

http://www.livingmath.net/ReaderLists/tabid/268/language/en-US/Default.aspx

 

Kitchen Table math might be something for you (the parent) to look at. An old thread on it

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/305510-anyone-else-using-kitchen-table-math/

 

My kids went up to adult non-fiction early because the library has only so many math and science books in childrens and teens non-fiction.

[AmandaVT]

My kid sounds exactly like yours when he was that age. He is thriving in Beast Academy. :-)  He's a pretty agreeable kid in general so I'm sure he'd be fine with a spiral program, but Beast is a perfect fit at the moment. We started with Math Mammoth (cutting way down on the number of problems) and lots of games and moved to Beast this past year.

 

He still loves to memorize things and still remembers everything from when he was younger. Learning French has been a great experience too. 

[lanalouwho]

My son is five, we just started kinder at home. I decided our goals for this first year are to learn how he learns best. I was stressing myself out trying to make a plan for this year that would last forever, until I finally realized that was a little ridiculous. So I picked a curriculum and decided we would try it, and supplement with other approaches, and just spend this year figuring things out. You can plan and plan (and plan) but until you just jump in and start trying things, you'll never have more than an idea.

 

Sent from my HTCD200LVW using Tapatalk

[happynurse]

My son is five, we just started kinder at home. I decided our goals for this first year are to learn how he learns best. I was stressing myself out trying to make a plan for this year that would last forever, until I finally realized that was a little ridiculous. So I picked a curriculum and decided we would try it, and supplement with other approaches, and just spend this year figuring things out. You can plan and plan (and plan) but until you just jump in and start trying things, you'll never have more than an idea.

 

Sent from my HTCD200LVW using Tapatalk

 

Oh my goodness this is me to a tee! Thank you for chilling me out. :-)

[MerryAtHope]

THANK YOU all for your replies. I've been thinking about it because, in a perfect world, I'd like to 'start the way I hope to finish', without having to make tons of curriculum changes (especially for math) if I don't have to. It sounds like this isn't information that I *should* know by now. I was kind of beating myself up for not being able to figure it out. ;) When I hear people say, "You need to know your child's learning style", I start feeling bad because I am still trying to figure out what the heck that is.

'

 

A lot of times, when people talk about a child's learning style, they may mean "visual, auditory, or kinesthetic." However, there's a lot of evidence out there that finding ways to incorporate multiple learning styles helps with retention even more than focusing on your child's preferred mode. Ultimately, with a bright child who memorizes things fairly easily, it's probably not going to make a lot of difference. As you work with him though, these learning styles will come to light more. A lot of young children haven't expressed one particular preference yet either--so, nothing to beat yourself up over at all! 

 

And then, there are other models--there's one that has 7 or so different styles. You might like Cynthia Tobias' book, The Way They Learn. Excellent resource.

 

Overall, I would encourage you that instead of thinking you need to figure all this out now, just become a student of your child. Note things that work well and things that don't, and allow yourself the freedom to learn as you go. Also, allow yourself the freedom to fail and make mistakes. You won't be the perfect homeschooler (no one is!), so that's not your goal. Choose excellent (not perfect) resources, and see how they work. If they bomb, examine the pros and cons of that curriculum as they relate to your family, and then try something else the next year. You'll likely hit on something good fairly soon, but don't be dismayed if it takes a year or two--that's normal and okay. Consider it teacher education--you are learning what works and what doesn't for your teaching style and your child's learning style.

 

FWIW, I think finding something that works well for your teaching style is AS important--and sometimes MORE important--than your child's learning style. If it's easy and intuitive for you to use with the way that you think, you'll be freed up to adapt things to your child's needs (adding in more hands-on, more visual or auditory, adding in more examples or more review, moving faster or slower, and so on). If it doesn't work well for you, it's probably not going to be a good fit for your family overall. 

 

Most of all, have fun, and enjoy your little one!

[Guest]

Most kids, most of the time, it doesn't matter, imo.

 

When you have a kid that needs one or the other I think it tends to be very in your face, and there's just no way on earth you'd miss it.

And like everyone is saying, most actual materials are in the middle.

[happynurse]

A lot of times, when people talk about a child's learning style, they may mean "visual, auditory, or kinesthetic." However, there's a lot of evidence out there that finding ways to incorporate multiple learning styles helps with retention even more than focusing on your child's preferred mode. Ultimately, with a bright child who memorizes things fairly easily, it's probably not going to make a lot of difference. As you work with him though, these learning styles will come to light more. A lot of young children haven't expressed one particular preference yet either--so, nothing to beat yourself up over at all! 

 

And then, there are other models--there's one that has 7 or so different styles. You might like Cynthia Tobias' book, The Way They Learn. Excellent resource.

 

Overall, I would encourage you that instead of thinking you need to figure all this out now, just become a student of your child. Note things that work well and things that don't, and allow yourself the freedom to learn as you go. Also, allow yourself the freedom to fail and make mistakes. You won't be the perfect homeschooler (no one is!), so that's not your goal. Choose excellent (not perfect) resources, and see how they work. If they bomb, examine the pros and cons of that curriculum as they relate to your family, and then try something else the next year. You'll likely hit on something good fairly soon, but don't be dismayed if it takes a year or two--that's normal and okay. Consider it teacher education--you are learning what works and what doesn't for your teaching style and your child's learning style.

 

FWIW, I think finding something that works well for your teaching style is AS important--and sometimes MORE important--than your child's learning style. If it's easy and intuitive for you to use with the way that you think, you'll be freed up to adapt things to your child's needs (adding in more hands-on, more visual or auditory, adding in more examples or more review, moving faster or slower, and so on). If it doesn't work well for you, it's probably not going to be a good fit for your family overall. 

 

Most of all, have fun, and enjoy your little one!

 

 

Brilliant and encouraging advice. Thank you so much!

[freelylearned]

Trial and error is the only reliable way to know if your child responds well to one style of program or another...and things can change. My son started off in public school with Saxon and he thrived. The spiral method was a great confidence builder. He got almost every problem right and missed one problem all year long on his assessments. He thought math was awesome. So when we started homeschooling I chose Saxon again, even though he was a little less enthused about math in 3rd grade (still public school). He almost immediately hit a wall in 4th grade and we finally narrowed it down to two reasons: he wasn't getting the concrete, hands on use of manipulatives at the beginning of each lesson and the daily review was driving him insane. He'd rather move onto another concept rather than get bogged down in a review. We did a short stint in MEP math because it was a free alternative. Even though it was spiral, he loved because of the visual nature of it and that it spiraled challenging concepts that required a lot of problem solving, but I didn't love teaching it. Finally, we settled on Singapore which fits his learning style and my teaching style. Singapore is mastery approach because we spend weeks exploring the different sides of a concept before moving on. 

[Tracy]

Mostly, you just need to watch your kid, just as you are doing.  Very generally, kids who are in the middle of the bell curve (academically speaking) do better with spiral materials, while those on the outside of the bell curve do better with mastery materials.  Kids with learning disabilities often do better with mastery materials, because they just cannot process multiple concepts at one time.  Gifted kids may do better with mastery materials, because they just don't need as much exposure to a concept to learn it.  

 

There is also the issue of how much spiral do you need.  Some programs have a very tight spiral in which there is more frequent and substantial review than in other programs. So you may decide that you want some spiral, but for a child that appears to internalize concepts quickly and easily, you'll want to avoid a tight spiral.  

[ondreeuh]

I think he would revolt at something like Saxon or CLE, where like 10% of the lesson is working with something new and 90% is review, and the lessons seem to go in a random order. With those programs (and I think Right Start too) it is not so easy to skip ahead because the foundation is built in bits and pieces, here and there.

 

Singapore would be my starting place. Yes, each chapter builds on the next (which incorporates seamless review), but the beauty of that is that you can quickly assess your child's foundation and then teach from there. Often I skip the first lesson, maybe two, of a chapter because my son doesn't need it and we go straight to the more challenging, more application-based lessons. There are workbooks specifically for adding extra challenge that you can weave in. There is no reason to get bogged down in easy stuff.

 

Math Mammoth is mastery as well, but takes longer to get through each concept with LOTS of practice on every incremental step. I would bet your son is one who quickly understands the big picture, and it would be very tedious to inch his way to through the concepts instead of jumping right to the thick of it.

 

Beast Academy is even more straight-to-the-hard-stuff than Singapore. I would anticipate that is where he would fit best eventually.