Independent interest based HS credit

[naturalmom]

I just heard a talk by Richard Ruszyck, and he mentioned the importance of students having time to explore academic learning apart from high school curriculum. I have been weighing in high school options for ds, and we have a rigorous 9th grade ahead. I am brainstorming a way to build in time for him to study, experiment, build, invent, explore in an ungraded way.

 

My idea is to have an annual credit in which the only requirements are (1) to spend a set number of hours per week, (2) do brief monthly write-ups so he can track what he's done over the years and set down goals for the next month, and (3) write a paper at the end of the year with a personal evaluation of his learning, and goals for the following year.

 

I would like to give credit academically without assigning a grade. Would this look inappropriate? He is a very motivated student, but I want to let him keep his energy and excitement in a non restricted way, but still have his remaining credits stay more traditional.

 

I am looking for feedback, both positive and negative welcomed (but please be tactful if you are telling me how stupid the idea is!) I would also appreciate advice on how to structure an unstructured course.

 

Thank you!

[regentrude]

I have given grades of "P" for all electives outside the core subjects where I did not assign a letter grade. It was no problem for any of the colleges with DD.

 

DD unschooled certain subjects, and DS does so too. I don't see any issue with it, if it's in addition to the basics - or even basics, if the student is very motivated (DD unschooled English in 11th)

[G5052]

A lot depends on the topic.

 

My younger one is doing a "Readings in Modern Literature" class next year. Basically I'm letting her pick a book a week and write on it as she wishes. She's a superb writer (AP English Comp this week) and very motivated.

 

My older one did the same for Russian. He picked his own books and study methods, focusing Russian conversational skills. So he has a "Conversational Russian" class on his transcript. Also a subject he was really into.

 

Both tracked their own hours, and I checked in regularly on their progress, so I felt comfortable assigning a grade. You don't have to give them credit, but these were independent, academic pursuits, so I did grade them.

Edited May 9, 2016 by G5052

[Jane Elliot]

I think it's a great idea. I don't know why you wouldn't just give a traditional grade for something like that.

[Chrysalis Academy]

We're doing two independent interest based credits this year - Theater Arts and Creative Writing.  They involve a combination of short courses, camps, independent work for which she tracks time, performing, attending performances and writing about them, and reading plays/watching film versions.  I plan to assign a grade, and I can't imagine it being anything other than an A because this is where her interest/passion lies and where she puts her best effort - where she'd put all her effort if I let her! Both credits will likely contain over 180 hours and I have no problem with giving her an A for these classes and describing them on the transcript in a way that colleges will get.

[8filltheheart]

My kids study a lot of their courses through independent study. Fwiw, I will no longer give P for a grade and all courses receive a letter grade. On a homeschool,to college loop there was a mother whose student was rejected by schools he was well qualified for. The problem stemmed from not giving letter grades and stating they worked to mastery and giving passes for all of the coursework. There are schools that convert passes to CS and generate their own GPA equivalent. Just giving a grade to begin with can avoid confusion and negative consequences.

 

For courses that cannot be given a grade, turn them into extra curricular activities instead.

[klmama]

Why not assign a grade?  Just have your ds learn what he wants to learn, and then document it at the end of each semester or year.  You could assign a grade to any output he has already produced (poetry, photos, projects constructed, musical compositions, etc.).  If there hasn't been any output, you could have him write several essays on aspects of what he learned and/or you could give a comprehensive final exam (first ask him to tell you a list of what he's learned about, then ask a question about each topic on the exam.) 

 

 

[naturalmom]

What if he delves into a lot of different topics rather than 1-2 specific areas? He's interested in math (he has a proof he's working on now, plus wants to go further on number theory), programming, various science areas, and I don't know what else he'd do if allowed time... Maybe just expand his own knowledge, or maybe try out ideas that may or may not work..

[2_girls_mommy]

WTM writes this into the 11th and 12th grade as part of the hs curriculum.  I don't plan on having one in 9th grade as we've got a full schedule.  But we will follow the plans in WTM for a year long project with paper and other appropriate output later.

[Corraleno]

What if he delves into a lot of different topics rather than 1-2 specific areas? He's interested in math (he has a proof he's working on now, plus wants to go further on number theory), programming, various science areas, and I don't know what else he'd do if allowed time... Maybe just expand his own knowledge, or maybe try out ideas that may or may not work..

 

I would definitely make time for those things and encourage your DS to pursue them, but unless he's going to be short of credits, I would be inclined to leave these sorts of things as ECs. I think homeschoolers have a tendency to want kids to "get credit" for anything educational they do, and sometimes that can leave the ECs looking a bit sparse (or at least overly scheduled/organized). 

 

A few years ago, a woman who had worked in admissions at Stanford made a series of videos in which she evaluated 3 or 4 different applications, pointing out what she found positive or negative about each one. One of the things that really stood out to me was the huge emphasis she put on what the student had done outside of school. One student, for example, listed about a dozen different school club memberships, which she dismissed as shallow and unconnected to his STEM interests. The one thing she was really impressed with in his application was that he listed the programming languages he knew, and she said he hadn't learned those in school, so it showed that he was using his free time to pursue something he was passionate about. Another student wrote a food blog in three languages, and the admissions person was really impressed by that, in spite of the girl's mediocre GPA and test scores. She said she thought this girl would be a really interesting person and a fun roommate.

 

All that to say.... it may be more impressive to colleges to see that a student is pursuing these kinds of activities in his spare time, for pleasure rather than for a grade or credit, versus adding a generic ungraded "assorted STEM projects"credit to the transcript.

[JanetC]

What if he delves into a lot of different topics rather than 1-2 specific areas? He's interested in math (he has a proof he's working on now, plus wants to go further on number theory), programming, various science areas, and I don't know what else he'd do if allowed time... Maybe just expand his own knowledge, or maybe try out ideas that may or may not work..

 

Why is that a problem? Wasn't that the point of giving him this time?

[teamturner]

I want to do some kind of independent study for my rising 11th grader who is interested in engineering. Rather than spend time on a random elective, I'd rather give him credit for exploring ideas he has. He wants to build something complicated. He already has a packed schedule with swim team and school that we often don't have time for an elective anyway. So carving out school time for him to explore his interests makes sense to me.

 

 

[naturalmom]

Well, I shared my idea with ds, who didn't like it at all. He wants free time to be just that - free. He doesn't need to write his goals down because he already knows what they are. And he won't need to refer back to see what he worked on, or to pick up a project later with a fresh idea, because he won't forget what he was thinking about or working on.

 

And honestly, he does keep all that stuff in his head already. So he'll still do a bunch of stuff, but we'll keep it off the transcript. Thanks for the brainstorming help, and from what some of you said, this may be the better option anyway!

[LisaKinVA]

I do create interest-based electives for my older kids.  I also keep these *very* light.  If the minimum is 120 hours worth of course work, we hit the minimum.  My purpose with these is to allow my kids time to explore areas they especially have an interest for further study -- to give them insight to what that study and practice might look like -- not to remake a college-level course or another venue for rigorous work.

 

Older DS will be continuing Robotics next year.  We are investing in the LEGO Mindstorms EV3 and Raspberry Pi, and he will help select a variety of projects, growing in difficulty.  There will be approximately 2 projects a quarter (depending upon difficulty), plus we are hoping to use either TGC Robotics Lectures OR start the Coursera Robotics on-line program.  If he does half of the Coursera program this year, he will probably only have 1 required project per quarter (because there is other actual work in the Coursera Program).  But, it's his choice.

 

Another elective I'm building or DS is an Introduction to Engineering Studies course, which will allow him to explore 4-6 different fields of study, using some books, some video, some audio. The main output will be narrative or comparison/contrast essays about what he's learned and what he likes/dislikes about it.  

 

DD, on the other hand, finds math and science fun.  Her electives are a bit more weighty, but I'm still attempting to stay on the lighter side (unless we move back stateside and she could actually DE in the courses, which would then transfer to at least one of the schools she's consdering).  I expect she will continue to do art, digital photography, and drama as she goes, though.

 

Electives are meant to allow for exploration of other areas of interest -- they don't have to rise to the level of rigor of AP Physics C to be important enough to grant credit, but should have some organizational basis.  If your son wishes to have more free time, that's great -- but just make sure he's hitting the minimum credits for a solid high school diploma (you can look to your local high school or possible college requirements, if that is important). 

 

[Epicurean]

Do you have a link to the talk by Richard Ruszyck? :)

[quark]

Well, I shared my idea with ds, who didn't like it at all. He wants free time to be just that - free. He doesn't need to write his goals down because he already knows what they are. And he won't need to refer back to see what he worked on, or to pick up a project later with a fresh idea, because he won't forget what he was thinking about or working on.

 

And honestly, he does keep all that stuff in his head already. So he'll still do a bunch of stuff, but we'll keep it off the transcript. Thanks for the brainstorming help, and from what some of you said, this may be the better option anyway!

 

Thank you for the update. I was wondering what you will eventually decide to do. The plan would have failed here too. I've found that when DS is motivated to explore math on his own, the quickest way to kill it is to ask him to write his ideas down or to do some kind of tracking for a credit. He still writes ideas and proofs on his whiteboard (I had a large-ish one mounted in his bedroom) and sometimes I take snaps if he has added something to it.

 

I've seen people refer to math explorations as Special Topics in Math or some related title. Usually they refer to books like AoPS Intro to Number Theory/ Counting & Probability and/ or the Vol1/ Vol 2 books as resources. I decided to award one credit to DS's combined study of all of these books plus a few more resources. Since these were done prior to high school I won't be including them in his GPA.

 

Despite trying to keep up, I abandoned my idea to track all of his other math explorations. Those will just be self directed learning that won't be included in the transcript. I am learning that not everything significant has to be transcripted or even reported to colleges if there is already enough evidence of interest and rigor. Some of it is just good for our own memories (if I can catch some of his whiteboard scribblings before they are wiped off forever!). :laugh:

[Corraleno]

So he'll still do a bunch of stuff, but we'll keep it off the transcript. Thanks for the brainstorming help, and from what some of you said, this may be the better option anyway!

 

And keep in mind that "not on the transcript" doesn't mean "not covered in the college application." There are plenty of other places where you can include these kinds of activities, like the essay, the counselor letter, the school profile, and the homeschool supplement (if the college asks for one).

Edited May 11, 2016 by Corraleno

[Sebastian (a lady)]

You migh have your kid keep track of the time he spends on these, then summarize them on a resume.

 

Ds used this to help him remember what he'd done over 3 years of high school when he was doing his applications.

[Grantmom]

Well, I shared my idea with ds, who didn't like it at all. He wants free time to be just that - free. He doesn't need to write his goals down because he already knows what they are. And he won't need to refer back to see what he worked on, or to pick up a project later with a fresh idea, because he won't forget what he was thinking about or working on.

 

And honestly, he does keep all that stuff in his head already. So he'll still do a bunch of stuff, but we'll keep it off the transcript. Thanks for the brainstorming help, and from what some of you said, this may be the better option anyway!

 

I can see this response.  I think this is basically why we homeschool, so I wouldn't want to put those kinds of limits on it, and I don't think that was what Richard Ruscyzk was talking about.  I think there will be other places to describe how you spent your time, if you already have a full schedule.  But if you want to make it into a credit, I think that you can make it what you want to make it.