"6th graders in the richest school districts are 4 grade levels ahead of children in the poorest districts."

[MeghansMom]

Someone went off on a tirade about every kid in bad neighborhoods watching hardcore porn, and it was pointed out that wasn't true.

 

There was some other silliness but Murphy and some others have dashed through it pretty well.

 

 

 

 

I think calling it a tirade and stating that she said EVERY kid is an exaggeration.

 

I actually lived in a welfare neighborhood many years ago and what she says is accurate. We did not even live in the worst of projects we lived in what was called the "white people" projects.

 

I don't feel that just because she was passionate about what she experienced should be cause to be dismissive of what she has to say.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I think calling it a tirade and stating that she said EVERY kid is an exaggeration.

 

I actually lived in a welfare neighborhood many years ago and what she says is accurate. We did not even live in the worst of projects we lived in what was called the "white people" projects.

 

I don't feel that just because she was passionate about what she experienced should be cause to be dismissive of what she has to say.

 

She said something to the effect that the good parents were the exception not the rule, and that even the "nice parents" saw nothing wrong with the kids watching porn.

 

"All" is a bit of an exaggeration on my part but not by much.  There is no doubt in my mind what she saw was true, but she was using a ridiculously broad brush and painted the majority as bad parents which is unfair.

[Tsuga]

With the 30 million word gap at age 3, before school even starts, the data don't surprise me.

 

ETA: A few weeks ago I heard a report on NPR about increased school funding vs educational success. The conclusion was that it is not as easy as throwing more money at the problem. They had schools that spent twice the national average and had nothing to show for.

The word gap study has a lot of issues with it.

 

That said it is obviously a parental input thing and not something that can be achieved by public school availability alone.

[Tsuga]

By the way as someone who does applied social science:

 

Asians work more and study for more years for sometimes HALF what whites get for the same education and extra hours (I mean half the marginal gain per year of education not half the total salary obviously).

 

They work so hard so they won't be grouped with black people. They and the Jews (what can I say) know they can find a niche.

 

Black people are already getting grouped with black people so sometimes (though not always) decide it's not worth it.

 

What are Asians doing differently?

 

Kissing more a**.

 

They certainly aren't getting the same payoff white kids get.

 

But everybody loves to talk about Jews and Asians.

"See how hard they work? They all live in one house and they don't complain!"

 

As far as I'm concerned they are only somewhat better off than black people. There is a reason Asian families lose the drive after 1.5 generations (on average). It's that when you know the game is rigged you try less.

 

If you doubt me look up the census data on lifelong earnings by race and education.

 

Asians work hard for less.

 

The "model" minority. I think black people have been in this country long enough.

 

And in case there is any doubt about what I am trying to say: we live in a very racist society and some people give up.

 

Ending racism is a critical part of getting people to work harder.

 

They have to have a chance to think they have a chance.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Tsuga

[DawnM]

 

 

Lower income families can't provide as many opportunities as wealthier families.  But that doesn't mean that education can't be valued.  When education is a priority, children can do very well, even with very little to work with.

 

 

What my job has been in the past was to make students aware of those opportunities.    Some of them just have no idea that anything beyond high school might be available to them.  And when they have allowed undocumented to get in-state tuition, that opened up another huge door for some.

 

I loved my job.

[DawnM]

Kissing more a**.

 

They certainly aren't getting the same payoff white kids get.

 

But everybody loves to talk about Jews and Asians.

"See how hard they work? They all live in one house and they don't complain!"

 

As far as I'm concerned they are only somewhat better off than black people. There is a reason Asian families lose the drive after 1.5 generations (on average). It's that when you know the game is rigged you try less.

 

If you doubt me look up the census data on lifelong earnings by race and education.

 

 

 

I think I am looking at different data than you are.  

 

It is TRUE that Asian immigrants often work very hard.  They work in restaurants, grocery stores, etc....and work long, long hours, but their children don't give up 1.5 generations in from what I have seen.

 

The data I am looking at www.census.gov shows that a professional degree brings in similar earnings for both white and Asian.  The disparity is with the Hispanic and Black populations.

 

Professional degree, lifetime earning:

 

Hispanic: $3,120,466

Black: $3,521,784

White: $4,754,930

Asian: $4,700,782

 

I am sure there is a lot this table isn't showing, but I don't have time to read through it this am.

 

I do see the greatest disparity between men vs. women.  Again, I don't know if this is because they are comparing women's lifetime including some time off for raising children, or working part time for a while, or if they are comparing apples to apples.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2016 by DawnM

[Dmmetler]

Today we recieved word that my niece has been accepted into an 8th grade to high school transition program run by an elite private school for low income students who have faced hardship. I'm pretty enthused as the results are solid (it's a long standing program) and because it means she will have FT summer enrichment and academic review classes this summer with continued support throughout high school including college application support. This is a privately funded program. But who was helping her with her application? Not her dad at all. Mom a little. And mainly my family, especially my older son. There's a lot of kids who would benefit but likely never even hear about it. As a poor kid growing up I benefited greatly from the fact that my mom was a reader and kept up on programs and stuff for me.

 

Another thing in my niece's favor. My state offers free college tuition for low income students who sign up in 7th and 8th grade and then maintain decent grades and stay out of legal trouble. Four fully funded years of tuition with a stipend for books. That's worth north of $55K in today's dollars. At that point, Pell grants and a small work study job should cover room and board and the rest of the books. But you have to be signed up by the end of the 8th grade. We had to run down that paperwork for her. Parents who are either overwhelmed, or struggling with mental health or addictions, or who just don't care, or who might not be literate enough to read what they get in the mail aren't infrequently failing to get that 1 page form in during the required window.

 

My DD participates in several talent search/GT programs for kids with high test scores,and we frequently receive notice of such programs for high performing kids, targeted towards low income kids. I have to wonder-how many low income kids ever even take the talent search exams, even if they qualify? The tests are given on Saturday, at one public high school in my region. How do they get there? And even if they take the test, if the information is mailed out via e-mail, how do families with no internet service at home get them? Or do the online applications?

 

Sometimes, it seems like programs are designed to make it hard for those who would benefit most to find and use them, just so they can say "we're doing something"-but not actually have to do much.

 

 

[Arcadia]

There is a reason Asian families lose the drive after 1.5 generations (on average). It's that when you know the game is rigged you try less.

The 2nd generation (all races) lose the drive as kids because Maslow's basic needs are met by their 1st generation parents. Many are in private schools here and when layoffs happened in 2009, kids whose parents were retrenched were pulled out and put back in to public schools on free/reduced fee lunches and breakfasts. When the parents are employed again, many went back to private schools. These kids aren't as complacent after that.

 

My kids are well aware that many things in life are rigged. Are people going to find ways to crash through or go round barriers, or be defeatist about it. Offshore labor cost is much lower, if an Asian here wants to compete as a manufacturing employee with the global labor force, the stacks are not in their favor. That is why going into sales is more attractive than engineering for example because of higher pay ceiling.

 

We filled up the 2010 U.S. Census form, the detailed long form. Not sure why they sent us since we are foreigners.

[MinivanMom]

My DD participates in several talent search/GT programs for kids with high test scores,and we frequently receive notice of such programs for high performing kids, targeted towards low income kids. I have to wonder-how many low income kids ever even take the talent search exams, even if they qualify? The tests are given on Saturday, at one public high school in my region. How do they get there? And even if they take the test, if the information is mailed out via e-mail, how do families with no internet service at home get them? Or do the online applications?

 

Sometimes, it seems like programs are designed to make it hard for those who would benefit most to find and use them, just so they can say "we're doing something"-but not actually have to do much.

 

Well, hopefully they all have a fabulous 7th grade English teacher who encourages them to find a way to take the test, convinces their single mother it's worth it, helps them fill out all the necessary applications for CTY summer camp, and then takes the time to mail them encouraging letters at camp. Every smart, poor kid needs a Mrs. Ewing.

 

This is why we need good public schools with caring, passionate teachers. Public school is where poor kids find support and hand-holding and encouragement. Yes, the programs and financial aid are out there, but students in poverty need teachers & counselors to help them through the process of finding and applying for it.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I read somewhere recently about an elementary school that had every kid take the test (during the regular school day, I assume) to get into the gifted program. Not surprisingly, the number of black and Latino kids admitted increased. I think having the kids tested twice a year for that would be good. Then it gives anyone new to the schoo or absent the first time a chance, plus it allows late bloomers an opportunity once they start to catch up.

Edited May 7, 2016 by HoppyTheToad

[lauraw4321]

My DD attends public school.  In second grade all kids are tested using a test that requires no language skills. It is entirely image-driven, so if the child's first language isn't English, they are not at a disadvantage. So, it should be an unbiased test.

 

But G&T is also based upon nominations. We nominated my DD because she was homeschooled at the time of initial testing. Teachers also must evaluate. So it's not as simple as doing well on a test, and thus the inherent biases of people probably show in the results. I'm curious to see how many children of color are in the program.

[Bluegoat]

The 2nd generation (all races) lose the drive as kids because Maslow's basic needs are met by their 1st generation parents. Many are in private schools here and when layoffs happened in 2009, kids whose parents were retrenched were pulled out and put back in to public schools on free/reduced fee lunches and breakfasts. When the parents are employed again, many went back to private schools. These kids aren't as complacent after that.

 

My kids are well aware that many things in life are rigged. Are people going to find ways to crash through or go round barriers, or be defeatist about it. Offshore labor cost is much lower, if an Asian here wants to compete as a manufacturing employee with the global labor force, the stacks are not in their favor. That is why going into sales is more attractive than engineering for example because of higher pay ceiling.

 

We filled up the 2010 U.S. Census form, the detailed long form. Not sure why they sent us since we are foreigners.

 

I think the other thing to consider with any group that immigrates is that the parents will tend to have values that reflect their culture of origin in many ways, and their kids will less so, and the grandkids are likely to have the new culture's values almost wholly.

 

If there are different attitudes to work, leisure, authority, education, and so on, that will ultimatly be reflected in outcomes.

[abcmommy]

Yes. This.

 

If you have never spent lots of time around inner city "culture" then you can't even imagine the kind of crap some of those kids see and experience.

 

You just assume that everyone is just as caring and well meaning as you are, you literally cannot conceive of the neglect and raunchiness that some children have to live with.

 

 

You might not have grown up there, but I assure you suburbia has its own seedy underbelly and it looks a lot like this.  Maybe with a nicer car in the driveway.