Importance of DBQs

[Liza Q]

If your child was not planning to take an AP exam , would you spend much time having your child do them? The program we have been using for World History does have them so I have had him do a few this year but I was planning to drop them. I would rather spend more time on the regular timed essays and a research paper.

 

My oldest girls have told me that they never did anything like them on a test in college, so I am not too concerned with it being a necessary skill. But...if they are not used in college, why are they included on not just the AP exams but tests like the NY Regents? I was planning on having him use some old Regents exams this year as the text we are planning to use, The American Pageant, doesn't have any tests I can find.  Well, there are plenty of online quizzes but I was planning on making up a mid-term and final and I wanted the use the Regents questions for them. I live in NY so I figured it was a basic standard that I could use. I was surprised to see that there are DBQs on each test.

 

Basically - how useful are these in the real world?

[foxbridgeacademy]

In College my very first History class that's all we had on tests.  We were expected to write FRQ/DBQ's of 1-2 (blue book) page per question with 3 questions per test.  He gave a list of 7 questions he would pull from and we could bring 1 piece of paper with notes.  I loved/hated that class but I learned so much about writing.  For the Final 1/2 the grade was a conversation taking place between your choice of of 10 different known historical figures (Erasmus, Galileo, Des Cartes, etc).  I think the value in DBQ's is not doing well on a particular test.  It's about learning how to find an answer that is not stated and often not even implied.  Being able to pull together multiple sources and glean the bits to form a well thought out answer.  Doing this as an essay instead of the traditional shorter response DBQ I would think would be good too.

 

 

*1-2 pages, both sides.  1 2 sided page would not get you an A  :glare: .

Edited April 21, 2016 by foxbridgeacademy

[Momling]

I like them for teaching essay writing in content areas (mainly history I guess...). Especially when kids don't have the resources or time or ability to uncover primary sources on their own, a DBQ provides the relevant sources and are great for teaching how to analyze primary sources and develop an essay. I don't think you need to be preparing for a test to appreciate a DBQ.

[mschickie]

As for their direct use in college it is going to be professor dependent.  Now their indirect uses are abundant.  A DBQ is an excellent way for a student to work on analysis and in history primary source analysis is really the basis for any good paper.  So in that aspect they help a student develop critical thinking skills (which are important in all aspects of life) and they are helping them develop research writing skills.  Students who can successfully work with primary source documents and integrate them in an essay are learning how to develop their own arguments not based on others opinions.  That is a skill that can be carried into any other field.

[Liza Q]

Hmmm. Well, he can do the Part A parts well enough but is terrible at any kind of timed essay. I will have him do more as well as the thematic essays this year.

 

But I am really surprised. I had never even heard of them before 2 years ago so never had my older girls do anything like them. They read documents and discussed them with me and wrote about them, but not in this kind of structured way. I feel like I have been under a rock!

 

The structure is actually better for my son, so that is a plus!

 

Thanks.

[Corraleno]

But I am really surprised. I had never even heard of them before 2 years ago so never had my older girls do anything like them. They read documents and discussed them with me and wrote about them, but not in this kind of structured way. I feel like I have been under a rock!

 

Not once, in college or grad school, did I have a professor hand out two brief passages and a cartoon and say "write a 5 paragraph essay that checks all the boxes of this very specific and rather arbitrary rubric." The primary writing skills needed for college are (1) the ability to write short timed essays answering specific exam questions (what AP calls FRQs) and (2) the ability to write essays and research papers that synthesize and analyze various sources and use them in support of a thesis. To me, that's a very different skill from churning out an artificial DBQ, although I can understand that some people might see DBQs and the standard 5-paragraph essay as useful training exercises. But I think if your kids don't need those steps, then there's no reason to teach them.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Corraleno

[MarkT]

of interest

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document-based_question

[Ms Brooks]

Using them at the middle school level. It seems like what is expected of students. It also mixes things up a bit.

[Arch at Home]

DBQs are frequently used at my dds' CC in history, English 101, and literature classes. Instructors do not require the 5 paragraph format, leaning toward a more free form essay format, but intense analysis is expected as they respond to the set question. These essays, though frequently taking the place of exams, are not timed but are given to them as homework.

[GoVanGogh]

How do you teach this at home?

[Corraleno]

DBQs are frequently used at my dds' CC in history, English 101, and literature classes. Instructors do not require the 5 paragraph format, leaning toward a more free form essay format, but intense analysis is expected as they respond to the set question. These essays, though frequently taking the place of exams, are not timed but are given to them as homework.

 

Do these exams provide, as part of the exam, samples of various resources the student has never seen before, and require the students to use those specific resources to answer specific questions? Or are you referring to essay questions that ask the student to answer a question based on several sources the student has previously read as part of the class? The latter were the type of essay exams I had throughout college, but until this thread I'd never heard of a college class doing an AP-type DBQ. So I'm curious if that format is being used in colleges now, or if people are using the same term for different things.

 

These are examples of the type of exams that were very common when I was in college, which I would not call "DBQs," because they are based on the student's prior reading and study, rather than presenting the student with small snippets of previously unseen sources and requiring them to churn out a quick essay on those specific works.

 

1. Roman literature of the late Republic and early Principate (e.g. Livy's The Rise of Rome, the Res Gestae Divi Augusti, Virgil's Aeneid) is deeply concerned with representing a set of virtues believed to be characteristic of the Romans. Based on your knowledge of the Ara Pacis Augustae, can the same be said for Roman art of the period? If so, how do the images on the Ara Pacis express these virtues? If not, how does the Ara Pacis work to express different virtues or different ideas?
2. In "Parthenon and Parthenoi" Joan Connelly puts forward a controversial interpretation of the Parthenon frieze. Evaluate Connelly’s arguments regarding the attitude towards women presented on the frieze in light of your reading of the portrayal of women in any of the following works: Herodotus’s Histories, Aeschylus’s Oresteia, Sophocles’s Antigone, Xenophon’s Oeconomicus, or the rest of the Parthenon itself.
3. Choose three of the following texts: Seneca, Daniel, the Pirke Avot, the Rule of Community, Romans, John, Revelation, The Golden Ass, Perpetua's journal, Athanasius' biography of Anthony. Consider both the acquisition of the knowledge of the divine and how it functions in the individual’s and/or community’s life.
4. Compare the understanding of law, including the contexts in which these understandings developed, in three of the following: Exodus, the Rule of the Community, the Pirke Avot, Romans, Matthew and John.
5. Contrast Sappho's assessment of women in Fragment 16 with that of Semonides (Fragment 7), and Hesiod (either Works and Days 58-128 or Theogony 573-620) 

 

Would people refer to these questions as DBQs?

[swimmermom3]

Hmmm. Well, he can do the Part A parts well enough but is terrible at any kind of timed essay. I will have him do more as well as the thematic essays this year.

 

But I am really surprised. I had never even heard of them before 2 years ago so never had my older girls do anything like them. They read documents and discussed them with me and wrote about them, but not in this kind of structured way. I feel like I have been under a rock!

 

The structure is actually better for my son, so that is a plus!

 

Thanks.

 

I am a huge fan of DBQs for many of the reasons already stated.

 

I did want to tell you that timed essays get better - with a ton of practice. 

 

[Liza Q]

I am a huge fan of DBQs for many of the reasons already stated.

 

I did want to tell you that timed essays get better - with a ton of practice. 

 

 

Well. My daughters - even my very not academic hates school daughter - do fine with them. My son is ridiculous. Really.

 

Ok. That is a bad thing to say. He agrees with me that his dread and perfectionism are what gets in his way. When he gets past himself, he can do a passable job and with practice we both know that he can improve.

 

The DRAMA!!!!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I haven't seen something that is exactly the same as a dbq.  But I think it's worth keeping in mind that a DBQ is part of a test that is offered nationwide for an individual subject.  Part of the idea is that it allows the exam readers to evaluate the students' abilities to understand, contextualize and analyze documents from a given period.  The situation is as far as it could be from most college courses, where the individual instructor/professor controls the reading list, the course aims and the assignments.  To me it is a little bit like an in box exercise, which some higher level job application processes include.  (The job applicants are given a stack of papers and have to go through them in a timed period, deciding what action they would take with each one.)

 

The DBQ offers a controlled framework in which the student displays his/her ability to understand the context of documents and his/her ability to write cogently about the topic at hand.

 

I don't love the new history exam scoring rubric.  I think there is a fair amount of overlap between points like contextualization and synthesis.  I also think that there hasn't been nearly enough concrete examples of how actual essays would be scored.  (For example, there are three sample essays online from the 2015 APUSH exam.  None of the essays offered as samples earned a point for synthesis.  So how is a student supposed to understand the way to present synthesis in a manner that will cause the reader to award the point?)  I far preferred the old AP Euro rubric, with the core and supplemental points.  I think the direction the rubric is going rewards writing that stresses formula rather than actual analysis and insight.

[swimmermom3]

 

I don't love the new history exam scoring rubric.  I think there is a fair amount of overlap between points like contextualization and synthesis.  I also think that there hasn't been nearly enough concrete examples of how actual essays would be scored.  (For example, there are three sample essays online from the 2015 APUSH exam.  None of the essays offered as samples earned a point for synthesis.  So how is a student supposed to understand the way to present synthesis in a manner that will cause the reader to award the point?)  I far preferred the old AP Euro rubric, with the core and supplemental points.  I think the direction the rubric is going rewards writing that stresses formula rather than actual analysis and insight.

 

This has been a significant complaint in both the Euro and US teacher communities.

 

I've liked using my own DBQs to teach synthesis, but we started with it early on when something else we were trying wasn't working. For my youngest, pulling together information from disparate sources seemed tough until we put it in the context of primary and secondary source documents, if that makes sense.

 

I've really struggled with the direction that the AP history courses have taken and if I had a do-over, we wouldn't have bothered.  But of course, now as a senior with a college decision and a major, I know how the APs are playing out and know he could have afforded to do history "our way."

 

[Paula in MS]

i'm going to probably show my ignorance here.  But, can someone explain to me what the difference is between a dbq and an essay?  It just sounds like an essay that cites a source, but maybe I'm missing something.

[Corraleno]

i'm going to probably show my ignorance here.  But, can someone explain to me what the difference is between a dbq and an essay?  It just sounds like an essay that cites a source, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

In AP exams, a Document Based Question provides a set of primary sources — snippets of text, part of a letter or speech, a poster, a map, a political cartoon, etc. — and then requires the student to write a brief essay that cites all of the provided sources. They are usually sources the student has not seen before — they're not going to be things like the Constitution or Emancipation Proclamation or anything. The sources are provided as part of the exam because there is no one standard text for AP courses, so providing sources that most students will have never seen sort of evens the playing field.

 

This is generally irrelevant in college, though, since everyone in the class is (theoretically) reading the same texts and attending the same lectures and discussions, so they will generally be tested on the assigned material. IMHO, DBQs are an artifact of the AP testing process, and since my kids don't do APs, I don't teach that format. I do teach them to write essays citing multiple sources that they have read and studied, since that's what they'll be doing in college.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Corraleno

[Paula in MS]

In AP exams, a Document Based Question provides a set of primary sources — snippets of text, part of a letter or speech, a poster, a map, a political cartoon, etc. — and then requires the student to write a brief essay that cites all of the provided sources. They are usually sources the student has not seen before — they're not going to be things like the Constitution or Emancipation Proclamation or anything. The sources are provided as part of the exam because there is no one standard text for AP courses, so providing sources that most students will have never seen sort of evens the playing field.

 

This is generally irrelevant in college, though, since everyone in the class is (theoretically) reading the same texts and attending the same lectures and discussions, so they will generally be tested on the assigned material. IMHO, DBQs are an artifact of the AP testing process, and since my kids don't do APs, I don't teach that format. I do teach them to write essays citing multiple sources that they have read and studied, since that's what they'll be doing in college.

 

So, the only difference is just that you have to read/organize/connect the information on the spot?  I would think, though, that if you can write an essay connecting various sources that you have read, you could do a DBQ.  Right?  My dd is going into high school next year, so I am trying to make sure she is doing what she should be.  There's a lot to think about.  

[Joker]

My dds started ps in 6th grade and have been doing DBQs since then. I had no idea what they were before then but dds can do them now like they're nothing. There was a learning curve but it wasn't that big of a deal.

[Arch at Home]

Do these exams provide, as part of the exam, samples of various resources the student has never seen before, and require the students to use those specific resources to answer specific questions? Or are you referring to essay questions that ask the student to answer a question based on several sources the student has previously read as part of the class? The latter were the type of essay exams I had throughout college, but until this thread I'd never heard of a college class doing an AP-type DBQ. So I'm curious if that format is being used in colleges now, or if people are using the same term for different things.

 

We are definitely talking about different things. The girls frequently have to write response at CC which focus on documents that they have seen. They rarely if ever have essays in exams though the response essays that are written out of class often replace traditional exams.

[Brad S]

To me, DBQs seem like a good thing for many or most kids in middle school through high school to: (1) practice analyzing primary source documents; and (2) practice writing about their analysis and point of view in a time-efficient way.  In our case, I think DS has the first part under control pretty well but he could use more practice writing -- since he's a bit of a perfectionist, without limits he'll look up what I think is an excessive number of sources to support essays and re-read historical documents and literature again more than he needs to (I think it's because he's still needs practice writing efficiently and not that he doesn't comprehend the material well the first time).  DBQs seem like a good thing for us, at least until we get more practice writing and get the writing under control.

 

That leaves the question of where to get practice materials.  I looked through our library and there was Reading Between the Lines by learningexpresshub, but I thought that was dreadful drivel.  I also found this document, Document-Based Assessment for Global History, Revised Edition, which seems useful, and the reviews are mostly positive of the revised, or second, edition.  Finally, a free sample is available here.  Any other materials that anyone else has found?  Thanks.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Brad S