CA a-g requirements

[regentrude]

Can somebody explain to me in a  nutshell what these entail?

I understand that these stipulate certain required coursework in different areas. I read that the requirement can be satisfied by standardized tests or college courses - but is this a must?

I seem to have read here that the courses have to have been taught using approved materials? Can anybody point me to a list?

Thanks

 

 

 

[quark]

You can search approved providers here:

https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist#/list/search/all

[quark]

These are the subject requirements (min of 15 a-g courses and at least 11 before senior year): http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/minimum-requirements/subject-requirement/index.html

 

And these are the admit by exam requirements: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/minimum-requirements/examination/index.html

[quark]

Out of state student requirements: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/out-of-state/

[regentrude]

Thanks, quark. I have seen the list of requirements. The info for out of state students says that no list of approved courses for OOS students is provided.

 

So, if you homeschool, you have to use specific  materials for each course that are on the approved list?

Edited April 11, 2016 by regentrude

[Carol in Cal.]

Regarding approved materials, there is more to it than that.

 

I was in a charter, and there were approved materials for A-G credit that they would not certify us to use as A-G courses.  The requirement on THEM was to use approved materials with a certificated instructor for each subject.  They solved that by picking just one or two texts, making sure that their high school teachers were certificated for those students who were headed to a state university, and administering a final of their own devising as a condition of certifying those courses.

 

This was a crash and burn issue for a lot of folks.  Many solved it by deciding that they would leave the charter and teach their own selections.  I don't have personal knowledge of that resulting in a state university admission.  Others (like me) decided not to take on homeschooling high school.  Others decided that their children would not go to state universities unless they started at the local JC and were admitted from there after two years.

 

 

[Arcadia]

Link is to a-g requirements comparison table of CSU and UC

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/files/csu-uc-a-g-comparison-matrix.pdf

 

Course providers have to get re-approval for a-g every few years. If they don't the course ceased to be a-g approved after the initial approval period ends.

 

For example AoPS has courses approved starting from April 2016. So those of us with kids who started the classes before that date cannot claim the course is a-g approved.

[regentrude]

My question is about actual homeschooling without using outside providers. So that's not possible at all?

[Arcadia]

My question is about actual homeschooling without using outside providers. So that's not possible at all?

You can go by the satisfying the a-g requirements by exam route

 

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/minimum-requirements/subject-requirement/index.html

Basically fulfil the a-g requirements by taking the AP and/or SAT subject tests and meet the minimum scores stipulated in the link.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Arcadia

[regentrude]

You can go by the satisfying the a-g requirements by exam route

 

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/minimum-requirements/subject-requirement/index.html

Basically fulfil the a-g requirements by taking the AP and/or SAT subject tests and meet the minimum scores stipulated in the link.

 

for each subject? Is that the only way to do it if we do not use outside providers?

[Arcadia]

for each subject? Is that the only way to do it if we do not use outside providers?

There is also the SAT or ACT with writing and two sat subject tests score route posted by Quark in post #3

[regentrude]

There is also the SAT or ACT with writing and two sat subject tests score route posted by Quark in post #3

 

I understand that. So unless an outside provider is used, the coursework in each area must be substantiated by some exam or other, do I get that right?

[JenneinCA]

My question is about actual homeschooling without using outside providers. So that's not possible at all?

Not possible without taking a lot of tests.

[quark]

Some of it is also up in the air, regentrude. I know folks who have had students admitted to UCs (they are in state) but who didn't follow a-g to the letter and neither did they have every single course validated. It is a grey area in every local homeschool forum I have been a part of.

[regentrude]

Thanks, all. That was helpful.

[yvonne]

You can go by the satisfying the a-g requirements by exam route

 

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/minimum-requirements/subject-requirement/index.html

Basically fulfil the a-g requirements by taking the AP and/or SAT subject tests and meet the minimum scores stipulated in the link.

 

This is what we'll be doing. Instead of using a-g approved courses, our students will need to fulfill the a-g requirements through qualifying scores on the necessary SAT subject tests or AP exams if they want to attend a UC.

 

It isn't a matter of using a-g materials; you can't just use the text/s and syllabus used by some approved a-g course provider.  It's a matter of taking a-g approved courses from some provider who offers a course that has been a-g approved. (I've asked before about a home schooler getting a course a-g approved, but the answer has always been that that's not possible.)

 

In CA, one can use a public charter that offers a-g approved courses, as Carol mentioned. You teach the course at home, using the approved text, submitting the specific required assignments, and taking the required exams for the course. The charter's "Highly Qualified Teacher"  "oversees" your student's work, meets live online for at least one hour/week with the students taking the same course, and gives your student the grade that will appear on his transcript.

 

Alternatively, anyone can take an a-g approved course through different providers offering a-g approved courses... BYU has some, APEX has some, UC Scout,....  You can search for providers on UC's a-g course list here, but it's clunky. 

 

Someone on this list (Laura in CA?), who homeschooled without worrying about the a-g requirements, has a son who was admitted to UC Berkeley (one of the most difficult UC's to get into) on the basis of his test scores.

 

The UCs have a lot of out of state students. I doubt many, if any, got in by taking a-g courses!

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by yvonne

[quark]

It also possible to validate courses with higher levels of each course. But that might still require outsourcing in some way, e.g. CC or putting together an AP syllabus and validating via AP exam. Kevin Karplus has written up a blog post about validating courses if you want to take a look.

 

I'm not sure how, without an exam, an English 12, for example, would validate English 9-11. We did home brewed English for 9th-10th (and part of 11th too) but DS will have a CC grade and hopefully a good AP result to validate as well for senior year. He also has validating SAT scores. So in effect, he will have a mix of a-g AND test scores. Obviously I am still confused about how all this works.

[yvonne]

It also possible to validate courses with higher levels of each course. But that might still require outsourcing in some way, e.g. CC or putting together an AP syllabus and validating via AP exam.

 

 

 

You don't validate the course as an a-g course.  If you get a certain minimum score on the SAT subject exam or on the AP exam, that score fulfills the a-g subject requirement.

 

For example, UC's "a" requirement (of the a-g list) is "History/social studies.... two years o fhistory/social science including one year of world history... and one year of US history....."  A score of 550 on the US History SAT Subject exam satisfies one year of the "a" requirement. A score of 540 on the World History SAT subject exam satisfies one year of the "a" requirement. (See the UC page for the necessary AP/IB exam scores or the "college courses" that also satisfy the "a" requirement.)

 

So, you can study whatever and however you want, any course, any text,... and as long as your SAT subject score/AP exam score/IB exam score or "college course" grade meets the minimum listed, you fulfill the a-g requirement. 

 

Are you in CA, Quark?

Edited April 11, 2016 by yvonne

[quark]

I am yvonne! So to answer regentrude's question, you still need either a test or to outsource right?

[crazyforlatin]

What about the "f" requirement below? How do we satisfy it if we can't take the AP exam? Maybe I should have continued Music Theory at the local music school.

 

F) Visual and performing arts

 

UC-approved high school courses

 

One yearlong course of visual and performing arts chosen from the following: dance, drama/theater, music or visual art

 

AP or IB examination

 

Score of 3, 4 or 5 on the AP History of Art, Studio Art or Music Theory Exam;

 

score of 5, 6 or 7 on any one IB HL exam in Dance, Film, Music, Theatre Arts or Visual Arts

 

College courses

 

Grade of C or better in any transferable course of 3 semester (4 quarter) units that clearly falls within one of four visual/performing arts disciplines: dance, drama/theater, music or visual art

[Lawyer&Mom]

I just wanted to clarify that there are two possible routes for a homeschooler. 1) Satisfy each a-g requirement by either using an accredited provider or by testing out of the particular requirement or a mixture of both. 2) Admission by examination. You don't satisfy the a-g requirements. Instead you submit test a mixture of test scores to establish eligibility. Here is the link: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/minimum-requirements/examination/index.html

[yvonne]

I just wanted to clarify that there are two possible routes for a homeschooler. 1) Satisfy each a-g requirement by either using an accredited provider or by testing out of the particular requirement or a mixture of both. 2) Admission by examination. You don't satisfy the a-g requirements. Instead you submit test a mixture of test scores to establish eligibility. Here is the link: http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/minimum-requirements/examination/index.html

 

There's also a third one, but it seems pretty subjective: admission by exception.

 

'Each year, a small number of students who have the ability and potential to succeed at UC — but don't meet our academic requirements — are admitted by exception.

 

Sometimes even the most creative, focused and intellectually passionate students aren't able to fulfill our requirements for eligibility. Maybe they're home-schooled and don't have transcripts. Maybe their life circumstances have prevented them living up to their promise. The list is endless...."

[yvonne]

I am yvonne! So to answer regentrude's question, you still need either a test or to outsource right?

 

So am I. The whole a-g thing is such a pain. It took me a full year to realize that trying to jump a-g hoops was only adding busy work hoops to the academic course work my students were already doing and that the exam route would get us to the same spot.  I felt so free after dropping the charter and its a-g requirements! 

 

So, yes, that's my understanding..... 1) a-g courses from some provider who offers approved a-g courses (BYU, APEX, UC Scout,...), 2) satisfying a-g courses with subject exams (SAT subject, AP, IB exams) or "college course" (haven't seen "college course" defined, though, so I'm not sure if that means CC course/4 year college course/state U course/any of the former that have been officially designated as an "a-g" course/...)  3) admission by examination (scores on SAT/ACT), and 4) admission by exception.

 

[Corraleno]

I am yvonne! So to answer regentrude's question, you still need either a test or to outsource right?

 

Or if you go the non-a-g exam route (which is what most homeschoolers seem to do if they are not doing a CC transfer program) you need SAT plus 2 SAT subject tests, with average scores of 690 (in state) or 710 (OOS) on each SAT component. Those are the minimum* scores required (and the bare minimum scores are not likely to be competitive at the top UCs). For students taking the ACT instead of the SAT, the minimum would be about 31 in-state and 32 OOS.

 

One tricky aspect of this approach, though, is that neither of the two SAT subject tests can be in subjects where the student has taken a DE course for credit. That particular restriction is causing some complications as I plan DS's senior year, trying to decide which courses to do as DE, which to do at home, and which subject tests to take, in order to maximize options for college admissions. 

 

*ETA: You don't need a minimum of 690/710 on each test, but the average of all tests needs to be there. So, for example, a student could have a 750 on SAT Latin and a 670 on SAT Bio and that would meet the minimum requirements. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Corraleno

[Corraleno]

So am I. The whole a-g thing is such a pain. It took me a full year to realize that trying to jump a-g hoops was only adding busy work hoops to the academic course work my students were already doing and that the exam route would get us to the same spot.  I felt so free after dropping the charter and its a-g requirements! 

 

So, yes, that's my understanding..... 1) a-g courses from some provider who offers approved a-g courses (BYU, APEX, UC Scout,...), 2) satisfying a-g courses with subject exams (SAT subject, AP, IB exams) or "college course" (haven't seen "college course" defined, though, so I'm not sure if that means CC course/4 year college course/state U course/any of the former that have been officially designated as an "a-g" course/...)  3) admission by examination (scores on SAT/ACT), and 4) admission by exception.

 

 

The definition is "a 3 credit UC-transferable course," although they accept certain nontransferable courses (like remedial math courses) for some of the lower level HS coursework. For CA residents, the CCs all have lists of transferable courses. For OOS residents, they accept courses from "a regionally accredited college or university ... if a course is comparable to one offered at a UC campus. If a course is not equivalent to a particular UC course, it must be appropriate for a UC degree in terms of its purpose, scope and depth."

Edited April 11, 2016 by Corraleno

[Arcadia]

What about the "f" requirement below? How do we satisfy it if we can't take the AP exam?

 

F) Visual and performing arts

...

College courses

 

Grade of C or better in any transferable course of 3 semester (4 quarter) units that clearly falls within one of four visual/performing arts disciplines: dance, drama/theater, music or visual art

Community college course. Have you look at the AP Music Theory exam prep books? The exam is kind of weird.

 

My kids rather do music composition than music theory so community college would work better than AP Music Theory.

[quark]

One tricky aspect of this approach, though, is that neither of the two SAT subject tests can be in subjects where the student has taken a DE course for credit. That particular restriction is causing some complications as I plan DS's senior year, trying to decide which courses to do as DE, which to do at home, and which subject tests to take, in order to maximize options for college admissions.

Jackie in my son's case he will be taking a subject test that overlaps with DE but not exactly...eg physics sat2 wont exactly overlap with calc based physics so I dont know how that will work. However when I spoke to an admissions rep at UCB she did not dissuade me but instead said to provide context to these choices my son made in the box included in the application. So it just adds to all the grey areas...sounds like these are not hard and fast rules.

 

On my phone. Pls excuse typos and abbreviations and lack of punctuation.

Edited April 12, 2016 by quark

[daijobu]

What about the "f" requirement below? How do we satisfy it if we can't take the AP exam? Maybe I should have continued Music Theory at the local music school.

 

F) Visual and performing arts

 

UC-approved high school courses

 

One yearlong course of visual and performing arts chosen from the following: dance, drama/theater, music or visual art

 

AP or IB examination

 

Score of 3, 4 or 5 on the AP History of Art, Studio Art or Music Theory Exam;

 

score of 5, 6 or 7 on any one IB HL exam in Dance, Film, Music, Theatre Arts or Visual Arts

 

College courses

 

Grade of C or better in any transferable course of 3 semester (4 quarter) units that clearly falls within one of four visual/performing arts disciplines: dance, drama/theater, music or visual art

 

OMG, I forgot about fine arts!  Is it okay if my dd participates in youth musical theater?