What to use after Treasured Conversations?

[ItoLina]

My son is in third grade this year and we will likely finish Treasured Conversations by about June. I have LOVED this program and it has been so great for him. It's the first time we have consistently had writing lessons without arguments or tears, and I feel like his writing is improving. He has gained confidence in leaps and bounds and is actually enjoying writing.

 

So...if you used TC and loved it, what did you use next? I am at a loss. I really want to continue this great forward progress and especially his positive attitude toward writing.

 

Thanks!

 

 

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[ScoutTN]

What did you use before that provoked tears and arguments?

We loved TC too! 

[ItoLina]

What did you use before that provoked tears and arguments?

We loved TC too!

We tried WWE in first grade and BookShark language arts in second. I also tried some stuff on my own. Just journaling about topics we were studying, copy work from our current read aloud, etc. when I got totally discouraged by what we were using and didn't want to buy something else for the year.

[ScoutTN]

My Dd enjoyed CAP's Fable.  They include copywork and dictation (not as difficult as WWE), but have lots of other fun things with each lesson. It is designed for a semester, so it is easy to do along with something else. 

 

I know people with kids who find writing frustrating sometimes choose IEW or Bravewriter, though these have very different approaches.

 

 

[ItoLina]

My Dd enjoyed CAP's Fable. They include copywork and dictation (not as difficult as WWE), but have lots of other fun things with each lesson. It is designed for a semester, so it is easy to do along with something else.

 

I know people with kids who find writing frustrating sometimes choose IEW or Bravewriter, though these have very different approaches.

Thank you for the suggestions. I had been looking at CAP fable. I was just thinking I would want to use something with it for more nonfiction writing. I somewhat feel like after TC I could just use that method to add in some non fiction writing assignments on my own related to our history and science studies but I am a little nervous about really staying on top of that.

 

I have also considered IEW...but the price, ugh. Such an investment if it doesn't work out, and our track record with writing programs isn't great.

 

I have looked at Brave Writer and actually have read the Writers Jungle. I love the idea of it, but I just can't see myself doing it in real life. I need more of a concrete plan. Sometimes our life gets really busy and on those days things that aren't straight forward or at least a little open go get skipped.

 

DS gets really overwhelmed by the amount of writing and by new things that he doesn't feel he can immediately be successful at. One of the great things about TC for us was that it broke things up into really manageable chunks. Also, it built up skills so nicely and I loved the pace. He kept making gradual progress, but he never felt like he couldn't do the new task because it was really clear how he was just combining the skills from previous lessons to do this new thing. It was also great that he didn't have to just come up with a story out of the blue. When that is the case all I can get out of him is recaps if soccer matches, lol. I think those things were key to building up his confidence and stamina throughout this year.

 

I feel like IEW is described as having a lot of the characteristics we liked with TC, but I don't feel sure about it for some reason. How does CAP look as far as the amount of writing each day and scaffolding skills into so nothing gets sprung on them out of the blue?

[ondreeuh]

My Dd enjoyed CAP's Fable. They include copywork and dictation (not as difficult as WWE), but have lots of other fun things with each lesson. It is designed for a semester, so it is easy to do along with something else.

 

I know people with kids who find writing frustrating sometimes choose IEW or Bravewriter, though these have very different approaches.

We will do CAP Fable after finishing TC. It's more creative writing while TC is expository.

 

A less intense, topical program is Igniting Your Writing. It's on CurrClick and it's very affordable.

[ScoutTN]

The lessons in Fable are for four days a week, if I am remembering right. The suggested outline of a week is in the Teacher's book.You can adjust the pacing as needed or do some things orally to adjust for your particular student. 

 

I totally understand what you mean about Bravewriter!  I need more of a plan too. 

 

I think it would be easy to just have a student do some report writing similar to the end of TC, using science, history or whatever you are already doing as source material. I would need to plan those out ahead of time because otherwise it would not get done consistently. 

 

Another way to go would be a Killgallon Sentence or Paragraph book. 

[ItoLina]

Thank you all for helping me think this through.

 

I think I am leaning toward CAP Fable spread over a year with some TC style assignments related to our other subjects thrown in the mix. ScoutTN, I totally agree, I will have to pre plan these or they will never actually happen. So, I guess I better get planning our history and science studies, lol. I am definitely feeling less scared about doing it this way if it's pre planned though. I feel less worried that I would totally drop the ball if it's all scheduled out.

 

 

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[Squawky Acres]

Yes, you would like CAP Fable!  I just finished it with my third grader, and am now deciding between continuing with Narrative (the next CAP book), or taking a break and doing Treasured Conversations in between.

 

I just started Treasured Conversations with my second grader, who has named the squirrel who frequents our birdfeeder "Bushy the Hungry Squirrel."

[Chrysalis Academy]

We've actually gone back to a combination of WWE3 and writing paragraphs about science topics this year in 4th grade, after doing much of TC in 3rd.  Dd tried CAP Fable, probably too young, and hasn't been interested in revisiting it. I did get BW Partnership Writing, and the "writing lifestyle" stuff is mostly things we already did or have incorporated. I actually didn't like the projects very much.  But then I'm not a crafty/projecty type, so if I'm going to do one, I need a lot of hand holding.

[ItoLina]

Yes, you would like CAP Fable! I just finished it with my third grader, and am now deciding between continuing with Narrative (the next CAP book), or taking a break and doing Treasured Conversations in between.

 

I just started Treasured Conversations with my second grader, who has named the squirrel who frequents our birdfeeder "Bushy the Hungry Squirrel."

Yes! All the stories in TC are so great! It was so motivating for my son.

[ItoLina]

We've actually gone back to a combination of WWE3 and writing paragraphs about science topics this year in 4th grade, after doing much of TC in 3rd. Dd tried CAP Fable, probably too young, and hasn't been interested in revisiting it. I did get BW Partnership Writing, and the "writing lifestyle" stuff is mostly things we already did or have incorporated. I actually didn't like the projects very much. But then I'm not a crafty/projecty type, so if I'm going to do one, I need a lot of hand holding.

I am SO not crafty either! That would be a big turn off for me. And honestly my son isn't into that type of thing either. Especially with writing. He doesn't want anything that's going to lengthen the process. My daughter...that's a whole other story.

[8filltheheart]

Yes! All the stories in TC are so great! It was so motivating for my son.

Can I just thank you?! I really needed a boost tonight and your post made my night! I am so glad he liked the stories. :)

[RootAnn]

My two girls loved Bushy and Cheddar so much that they wrote a couple of adventure (fan fiction) stories starring them.

 

Ny kids were on the older side of the TC range. One is doing WWS and the other moved into CAP Narrative 2.

 

Their writing-from-an-outline in history is amazing this year in SOTW4. I credit TC.

[Lori D.]

Wordsmith Apprentice (gr. 4-6) might be a good fit -- it is all 4 types of writing (Descriptive, Narrative, Expository, Persuasive), in the setting of writing for the different departments of a newspaper. Fun silly one-page comic to start each new unit -- the Editor in Chief explains the new department to you. Written in an informal tone and very gentle. Don't be scared off by the grade range -- you can do as big or small of a "bite" per day. Even my "pencil phobic" DSs really liked this program.

 

table of contents and sample pages = http://www.christianbook.com/wordsmith-apprentice-janie-cheaney/9781929683178/pd/683170?event=ESRCG

suggested schedule (VERY adaptable) = https://www.commonsensepress.com/wordsmith/wordsmith_apprentice_lesson_plan.htm

[ItoLina]

Can I just thank you?! I really needed a boost tonight and your post made my night! I am so glad he liked the stories. :)

Thank you! This writing program has been so wonderful for me and ds. It has totally changed the way we approach writing and his attitude toward the subject. It's the first time I have felt so sad over finishing a curriculum.

[ItoLina]

Wordsmith Apprentice (gr. 4-6) might be a good fit -- it is all 4 types of writing (Descriptive, Narrative, Expository, Persuasive), in the setting of writing for the different departments of a newspaper. Fun silly one-page comic to start each new unit -- the Editor in Chief explains the new department to you. Written in an informal tone and very gentle. Don't be scared off by the grade range -- you can do as big or small of a "bite" per day. Even my "pencil phobic" DSs really liked this program.

 

table of contents and sample pages = http://www.christianbook.com/wordsmith-apprentice-janie-cheaney/9781929683178/pd/683170?event=ESRCG

suggested schedule (VERY adaptable) = https://www.commonsensepress.com/wordsmith/wordsmith_apprentice_lesson_plan.htm

Thanks! I have never even looked at this so I will have to check it out.

[Sahamamama]

We tried CAP Fable, but hated it. We were happy to go back to WWE.

 

It has been a few years since you used WWE... and your son has grown as a writer... perhaps it would work well now? Based on how you described your son, I just don't see how CAP will be a good fit. It is so unnecessarily wordy, we were relieved to get back to the simplicity and clarity of WWE. HTH.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Sahamamama

[Porridge]

what is the suggested age range for Treasured Conversations? 

[ItoLina]

We tried CAP Fable, but hated it. We were happy to go back to WWE.

 

It has been a few years since you used WWE... and your son has grown as a writer... perhaps it would work well now? Based on how you described your son, I just don't see how CAP will be a good fit. It is so unnecessarily wordy, we were relieved to get back to the simplicity and clarity of WWE. HTH.

Good to know. I considered going back to WWE but I was sort of unsure of what level to start with at this point. And we had such a bad experience the first time around I was hesitant, though I really do think he just wasn't ready for ANY writing program at the time we tried it. Definitely something to consider.

[ItoLina]

what is the suggested age range for Treasured Conversations?

I am not 100% sure but I think it's upper elementary? Like 3rd-5th or 6th grade-ish? Maybe someone else can chime in with a more sure answer. I really felt it was perfect for my son in 3rd grade. He is 8.

[texasmama]

We moved on to Writing Tales 1 and FLL3 after TC. It has worked very well.

[ScoutTN]

My two girls loved Bushy and Cheddar so much that they wrote a couple of adventure (fan fiction) stories starring them.

 

 

 

My Dd did this too and Ds narrated his to me, while watching the squirrels under our feeder. We had already named ours Chubby and Chunky, since they eat so much spilled bird food!

 

8, TC is truly a gem! 

[Sahamamama]

Good to know. I considered going back to WWE but I was sort of unsure of what level to start with at this point. And we had such a bad experience the first time around I was hesitant, though I really do think he just wasn't ready for ANY writing program at the time we tried it. Definitely something to consider.

 

Sorry, last night I was on my Kindle, so kept it short (for me, that is). ;)

 

What I was thinking was this: Your son struggled with WWE in 1st grade, but that might have been true for him then with any writing program. Many, many six year old boys are going to cry and struggle when it's time to write. They just aren't ready for that process.

 

But WWE may be the best fit for him, now that he is slightly older, a bit further along developmentally, and has had a positive writing experience with TC. In fact, SWB has stated that WWE was written with your son in mind! ;) (I'm loosely paraphrasing -- what she said was that WWE was written for the boy who struggles with writing and needs the steps broken down, one at a time.)

 

You wrote:

 

DS gets really overwhelmed by the amount of writing and by new things that he doesn't feel he can immediately be successful at. One of the great things about TC for us was that it broke things up into really manageable chunks. Also, it built up skills so nicely and I loved the pace. He kept making gradual progress, but he never felt like he couldn't do the new task because it was really clear how he was just combining the skills from previous lessons to do this new thing. It was also great that he didn't have to just come up with a story out of the blue. When that is the case all I can get out of him is recaps if soccer matches, lol. I think those things were key to building up his confidence and stamina throughout this year.

 

I'll just share our experience, and perhaps you will find it helpful. We tried CAP Fable with my oldest, verbal, word-loving, always-writing daughter. We tried it just for a "change of pace" from WWE, not because WWE wasn't working or we didn't like it, but just for something different.

 

Both of us hated CAP (sorry, I know some people love it, but we hated it). It was so wordy -- and this assessment comes from two super-wordy people, LOL! :) My daughter thought it jumped all over the place in the "preamble," which definitely seemed to amble.... If you want clear, concise, explicit instruction, CAP is not it (IMO)!

 

But I think the main flaw we saw in CAP was the lack of instruction. There were plenty of words all over the place, but the direct instruction (both to the student and to the teacher) was seriously lacking (in our opinion). I did take into account what my daughter thought of it all, because she is (and was then) a very insightful student, especially when it comes to writing. She asked to go back to WWE, and we were relieved to do so.

 

If your son responded to the gentle, incremental, clear, and explicit instruction of TC, you might want to consider going back to WWE again, now that he has had such a good writing experience. :hurray: Perhaps try the placement tests, or if you still have Level 1, just go through all the odd-numbered lessons until you finish them. If he has confidence with those, then WWE is a good track to be on.

 

FWIW, we never tried to finish one level of WWE per year, and we never did do any of Level 4 (I have it, though). We finished Level 1 in 1st grade, but slowed it down after that. No rush. We finished most of Level 2 in 2nd grade, the rest of Level 2 and part of Level 3 in 3rd grade, and the rest of Level 3 plus "other things" in 4th grade. My oldest moved into WWS 1 this year for 5th grade at half-pace, and is doing really well with it and enjoying it.

 

Some of those "other things" that we do in addition to WWE include -- lists for grocery shopping and Christmas, letters to friends and family, one-page narrations for History and Science and Literature, occasional short reports (e.g., if we go on a hayride and to a bonfire, they will write and draw about it the following day, and put that in the Family Record Book), occasional and voluntary short stories (I generally get Rainbow Fairy Princess stories, while you get soccer recaps, LOL), and anything else that they come up with.

 

Last year for US History, they made their own History Notebooks that contained their written reports (one-page, they chose the topics) and drawings. They still go back and re-read those notebooks. This year they are doing the same for Ancient History and Science -- read from the History Book Basket or Science Shelf, choose a topic, and write a one-page report. Lather, rinse, repeat. ;) HTH.

[lanabug]

My 4th grader finished TC about 2 weeks ago and we went directly into The Most Wonderful Writing Lessons. Next year we will do Wordsmith Apprentice.

 

Lana

[ItoLina]

We moved on to Writing Tales 1 and FLL3 after TC. It has worked very well.

This is another one I haven't looked at. I will have to check it out thanks for the suggestion!

[ItoLina]

Sorry, last night I was on my Kindle, so kept it short (for me, that is). ;)

 

What I was thinking was this: Your son struggled with WWE in 1st grade, but that might have been true for him then with any writing program. Many, many six year old boys are going to cry and struggle when it's time to write. They just aren't ready for that process.

 

But WWE may be the best fit for him, now that he is slightly older, a bit further along developmentally, and has had a positive writing experience with TC. In fact, SWB has stated that WWE was written with your son in mind! ;) (I'm loosely paraphrasing -- what she said was that WWE was written for the boy who struggles with writing and needs the steps broken down, one at a time.)

 

You wrote:

 

 

DS gets really overwhelmed by the amount of writing and by new things that he doesn't feel he can immediately be successful at. One of the great things about TC for us was that it broke things up into really manageable chunks. Also, it built up skills so nicely and I loved the pace. He kept making gradual progress, but he never felt like he couldn't do the new task because it was really clear how he was just combining the skills from previous lessons to do this new thing. It was also great that he didn't have to just come up with a story out of the blue. When that is the case all I can get out of him is recaps if soccer matches, lol. I think those things were key to building up his confidence and stamina throughout this year.

I'll just share our experience, and perhaps you will find it helpful. We tried CAP Fable with my oldest, verbal, word-loving, always-writing daughter. We tried it just for a "change of pace" from WWE, not because WWE wasn't working or we didn't like it, but just for something different.

 

Both of us hated CAP (sorry, I know some people love it, but we hated it). It was so wordy -- and this assessment comes from two super-wordy people, LOL! :) My daughter thought it jumped all over the place in the "preamble," which definitely seemed to amble.... If you want clear, concise, explicit instruction, CAP is not it (IMO)!

 

But I think the main flaw we saw in CAP was the lack of instruction. There were plenty of words all over the place, but the direct instruction (both to the student and to the teacher) was seriously lacking (in our opinion). I did take into account what my daughter thought of it all, because she is (and was then) a very insightful student, especially when it comes to writing. She asked to go back to WWE, and we were relieved to do so.

 

If your son responded to the gentle, incremental, clear, and explicit instruction of TC, you might want to consider going back to WWE again, now that he has had such a good writing experience. :hurray: Perhaps try the placement tests, or if you still have Level 1, just go through all the odd-numbered lessons until you finish them. If he has confidence with those, then WWE is a good track to be on.

 

FWIW, we never tried to finish one level of WWE per year, and we never did do any of Level 4 (I have it, though). We finished Level 1 in 1st grade, but slowed it down after that. No rush. We finished most of Level 2 in 2nd grade, the rest of Level 2 and part of Level 3 in 3rd grade, and the rest of Level 3 plus "other things" in 4th grade. My oldest moved into WWS 1 this year for 5th grade at half-pace, and is doing really well with it and enjoying it.

 

Some of those "other things" that we do in addition to WWE include -- lists for grocery shopping and Christmas, letters to friends and family, one-page narrations for History and Science and Literature, occasional short reports (e.g., if we go on a hayride and to a bonfire, they will write and draw about it the following day, and put that in the Family Record Book), occasional and voluntary short stories (I generally get Rainbow Fairy Princess stories, while you get soccer recaps, LOL), and anything else that they come up with.

 

Last year for US History, they made their own History Notebooks that contained their written reports (one-page, they chose the topics) and drawings. They still go back and re-read those notebooks. This year they are doing the same for Ancient History and Science -- read from the History Book Basket or Science Shelf, choose a topic, and write a one-page report. Lather, rinse, repeat. ;) HTH.

This was very helpful. Thank you for taking the time to explain.

[ItoLina]

My 4th grader finished TC about 2 weeks ago and we went directly into The Most Wonderful Writing Lessons. Next year we will do Wordsmith Apprentice.

 

Lana

Thank you! I will add those to my list of things to check out.

[SoCal_Bear]

Sorry, I didn't read all the comments....but in case you are not aware. IEW guarantees their curricula. If it is a bad fit, they will refund you 100% no questions asked. You must order directly from them though.

 

http://iew.com/help-support/our-policies/100-money-back-guarantee