Opinions wanted: The Well-Adjusted Child book & socialization

[Trivium Academy]

I have Twilight on reserve at the library but in the meantime, I have this book The Well-Adjusted Child: The Social Benefits of Homeschooling by Rachel Gathercole and two other books to read until Twilight gets here.

 

My dh and FIL have stated that they feel great that ds4 will be in preschool b/c of the socialization aspect. The only part of the socialization that I want for ds4 to learn is how to work in group setting moving from one task to another, to help prepare him for being at home in K.

 

In the book, The Well-Adjusted Child, I read this in the preface:

 

 

"Every day I see people worry about homeschoolers' socialization, just as I once did. I see people right and left choose not to homeschool, solely because of a vague sense that their children (or they themselves) will not have adequate social opportunities. They believe that they and their children will be stuck at home, friendless, weird. They have no idea that, at that very moment, droves of homeschooled children are playing at the park together, sleeping over at each other's houses, and taking classes together.

 

 

 

Homeschooling parents are gathering for picnics, brunches, game nights at each other's houses, and so on. "

It goes on to say that the opportunities are there. This book is really to help a new homeschooler feel more at ease about their socialization fears, from what I've read so far. My hope in reading this book is that it will show that a child raised at home (through homeschooling) indeed becomes a well-adjusted adult.

 

I, personally, think my children have ample socializing time through their current activities:

 

Ds4: soccer, church youth program and Sunday School, playing with neighbor's kids, going places with me including to the park and arranged play dates

 

Dd8: church youth program and Sunday School, playing with neighbor's kids, going places with me including to the park and arranged play dates

 

In my mind there is a fine line between having a social life and having a family life- the family life should always be dominant and I protect that as much as I can.

 

I'm interested:

1. What is your comfort zone with socialization?

- Do you participate in certain events just to satisfy socialization for your children?

 

2. What drives your involvement in outside activities? What is the primary reason? Academic or socialization?

[Carrie12345]

I'm reading the same book! I like it.

 

My kids' piano, drama and gymnastics classes are more about experiences than socialization. Our hs group and community service groups are primarily for socialization.

 

We live in an area where just going outside to play with other kids isn't really possible. We have one other family with small children on our block, and they're in school and day care until 6ish. Ds's main ps friends all live at least a mile away (and don't get home until 4:30.) The girls' closest friends live across the state line.

 

Even within our hs activities, the closest kids are 3 miles away. Any kind of social activity requires real planning. Having weekly and monthly activities on our calendar makes me feel so much better.

[Twinmom]

I'll have to check out this book. I've actually been considering sending my two oldest back to ps for socialization reasons, though it's not the perfect solution. Perhaps this can set my mind at ease a little.

[Shelly in IL]

Yes, we participate in our local co-op on Friday, purely for social reasons. It is a very academic co-op and ds (12) is taking religion, art and public speaking/debate; however, the main reason I sign them up is for the fun/football games/recess at noon.

 

I am not as concerned about ds 8's socialization. They learn from the occasional Cub Scout meeting, etc. (and he also goes to this co-o). But what I am seeing at the middle school level is much more sophistocated. I do think a certain level of exposure at this age is a good thing. We live out on a farm and the daily exposure to kids is not there. They need to play with others and have fun, so this is that exposure for them.

 

I recently wrote of my ds's experience on a group outing at an apple orchard playground. It was negative socialization, but boy did he learn from it. I think if he had more socialization, he would have better known how to handle it. Knowing about bullies is a part of socialization.

 

Other than that, no - I do not worry about socialization, per se. My children interact wonderfully with adults/kids their age/little children. That being said, there are definitely some advantages to enough socialization that they understand the nuances (even if it is somewhat negative or a little "pushing it") of everyday life. I am not condoning the inappropriate behavior of alot of middle schoolers these days - that is not what I mean by nuances. However; to be completely sheltered, doesn't exactly protect them, either.

 

I do think there is value in "socialization." I don't think it needs to come from a school setting - as I am sure you are asking based on your pre-school situation. I don't also think it is so important that you need to do more than the occasional playdate at that age. Plus, your youngest has the benefit of your older dc - I don't think the youngest children struggle with the same issues, socially, as maybe an oldest or an only.l

 

Hope this wasn't ridiculously obscure. Bottom line - your son doesn't need pre-school in my opinion. But, if it frees you to do better work with your others and it is a good experience for him, why not? good luck!

[Harriet Vane]

When we first started homeschooling, I was very intentional about socialization and did participate in some activities specifically for that reason.

 

I have since given up worrying about socialization. As the quote said, my kids are so busy having sleepovers and goofing off with their friends they don't really know they're unsocialized homeschoolers. Also, I have grown to highly, highly value social time as family.

These days most of our outside activities are based on how well such activities supplement our academic instruction. I have also grown absolutely militant about keeping some free time in our schedule--there are just too many good activities.

 

I know many homeschoolers who do sign up for myriad activities because it provides a socialization outlet for their children. My children are blessed to have good friends and lots of play time, so I have actually swung the opposite direction of NOT participating in an academic activity wherein the academics are a thin disguise for an elaborate play date. We just don't have time in our school schedule to miss school time for something like that. In fact, I tend to become highly frustrated, even angry, when I have taken time out from school for a promising field trip or skill seminar only to find when I get there that the instruction is minimal and sub-par and everyone thinks it's great for the kids to just play together. As far as I am concerned, let's call it a playdate then and schedule it for AFTER school hours in that case.

 

We do go to park days in the summer, wherein a group of homeschoolers meet at an area park once a week. That activity is purely for fun.

 

Also my kids are allowed to have friends over or go to friends' houses virtually anytime we can work it out.

 

I might also linger 15-30 minutes after an academic activity because my kids are enjoying their friends, and why not? As an example, I teach a Bible study to my dd and her friends. We pray half an hour, have instruction for an hour, and then they play for 30-60 minutes. We purposely built in the play time at their request. They know that if they are honorable about engaging in class, that I will be honorable about stopping on time for them to goof off together. Another example might be going on an academic field trip but then arranging to have lunch in the park afterwards with friends.

 

We have chosen NOT to participate in certain activities specifically because it will interfere with our family's socialization. For example, we decided not to go to our church's new midweek program. We value our evenings at home together, especially because we are out a lot during the day. Also, dh's new job requires a lot more travel, so when Dad is home it's important for the rest of us to enjoy being with him. We used to participate in a midweek program at another church that the kids really enjoyed. My son was really sick that year and eventually had to be quarantined before surgery. We stopped going to the midweek program thinking that this would be temporary. However, each of us was surprised to discover how much we ALL preferred being home together. When asked to choose the kids said they preferred staying home, wrestling with their father, and reading aloud together.

[Lizzie in Ma]

I'm interested:

1. What is your comfort zone with socialization?

- Do you participate in certain events just to satisfy socialization for your children?

 

2. What drives your involvement in outside activities? What is the primary reason? Academic or socialization?

 

 

I am going to share with you some insights into my children who by any definition, according to the world, would be highly "unsocialized". Daily life involves my 2 dc, me, their dad and my twin and her fiance. Weekends often include family gatherings that add to the mix my parents or his, various cousins, aunts and uncles and their 20 something cousins. Sundays they see their friends at church and often bring one home or go over someone's house. Once a week, the little one has gymnastics and every other week the older one has writing class. Sometimes, in the afternoon we will hook up with other hsing friends but that is maybe once a month. There are occasional "tween" outings but I pick them carefully and the rare birthday party which are always other hsing families with mixed ages and everyone plays together. All big days are days with our family and others. We have never felt a need to go out of our way to "socialize" our children.

 

Now for the "how are they doing so socially crippled?" insight part.

Our dc can and will talk kindly and respectfully and with great enthusiasm to anyone. The manager of our local grocery store adores them and always hugs them. There is a man, new to our church. To an adult, he is strange, he smells, he talks to himself, he has a mental condition and has been lonely for so very long. Well, this guy came out to the church campsite for an overnight and our dc were simply thrilled to have a new playmate. They played football with him, cooked marshmallows with him, went clamming with him, just treated him as they treat everyone else. I was so dang proud of them but they didn't even realize how most people treat this man.

They know the walmart greeters by name and if they are handicapped, as many are, they are careful to make it easy for them to place a sticker on their hands while they stop and care to spend a minute on the greeting. So many people rush by pretending they are too busy to be 'greeted" by someone who makes them uncomfortable.

And, while there are always rough spots, they are dear friends with each other and there isn't anything they wouldn't do for each other.

 

These are children who are "unsocialized". I wish I were eloquent enough to wrap it up with some great and deep summary but I am not. I think, Jess, that you are getting an earful from folks who love your kids but in the end, YOU and your dh have made a decision. They don't have to like it but they need to respect it and you need to have faith that you are doing the right thing. Pass the bean dip dear and forge ahead.

[Sophia]

1.

What is your comfort zone with socialization?

 

Friends are important.

I want all my children to eventually have a friendship similar to Jonathan and David's in the Bible.

This is for my older children.

 

At a younger age, I prefer to limit time with peers and have it closely supervised.

My 3 y.o. is currently at a Christian preschool with 8 other children and two adults.

Perfect ratio imo. Interestingly, ds does not ask to see the other children out of preschool although he does enjoy their company while there.

 

 

- Do you participate in certain events just to satisfy socialization for your children?

Yes.

I choose these events carefully though and consider what kind of socialization they will be getting.

 

What drives your involvement in outside activities? What is the primary reason? Academic or socialization?

 

Spiritual.

E.g., sports are pursued to encourage taking care of the bodies God gave us.

Music lessons/choir are pursued to foster a love for worship.

Co-op classes are joined to pursue an education that will be useful to God's kingdom someday.

 

hth,:001_smile:

[Chris in VA]

I'm teaching preschool this year, and one of the things we work on is social skills. I have a new perspective about this as a homeschooler--really, my views have changed and broadened from the time before I homeschooled and was exposed to the "negatives" of peer group socialization.

 

I want my preschoolers to learn to sit and listen to me, but I take care not to go on too long. I want them to show respect for each other--learning to take turns, learning that you cannot always go first, learning to wait patiently while others finish a task, using respectful language with others--all these are part of being kind and unselfish. I also want them to learn to stick with a task, even if it's hard, and to try new things. I want them to develop the language skills that make interacting with others a pleasant experience--how to say please and thank you, how to break into or initiate play, how to ask for what you want and need (not demanding, not getting upset, not just using a whine or a gesture). And, to make things easier for them and for their future teachers (none will probably be homeschooled, but who knows), I want them to learn to walk in a line, to keep their hands to themselves, to clean up after themselves (I don't clean up spills, I don't put away toys), and to do things like use the potty and wash their hands properly.

 

But so much of these "social skills" are either easily taught at home, or are unnecessary in the home setting. When's the last time you wanted your kids to walk in a line in the grocery store, for example? Not running off is one thing, and is probably the "homeschool application" of the line-walking idea, but still, a lot of the skills that help in school just don't apply at home.

 

On top of that, using co-op classes and lessons only partly helps with true social skill development. It's the free interaction and learning the "give and take" of play that most folks are really after. They want their child to be able to follow adult directions and all, but they really want their child to be able to get along with other kids and just "play nicely." So, I think opportunities for that unstructured play are important. But again, that can come from very small groups or even play at home with sibs.

 

Socialization is such a broad concept. So much of it involves our culture, too. I want my dd (and sons) to be able to read body language, to know when she's too loud or not communicating clearly (and be able to correct that), and to be able to initiate play and continue conversations. I think so much of that happens with people of all ages--and I don't particularly care if she has a ton of experiences with others her age. In fact, I want to shield her from too much play with other kids whose parents don't share our values--and also just from other kids, period--I've seen the worst of teen culture and I want my dd to have no part of it. Lots comes from media exposure, but just hanging with other kids who are dabbling in the "inappropriate according to Chris" can hinder my own kid's moral development.

 

Ok, I'm rambling. What was your question? :D

[Sophia]

I want my dd (and sons) to be able to read body language, to know when she's too loud or not communicating clearly (and be able to correct that), and to be able to initiate play and continue conversations.

 

This is huge.

I frequently coach my older dc on these things and often wonder how I would do so if I wasn't around them so much.

My oldest also spends a lot of time with dh so he can see how men interact with each other, resolve misunderstandings, communicate, etc.

[Katrina]

I used to think the whole unsocialized homeschool child thing was a myth until I meet one. When we moved two years ago, our new next door neighbor homeschooled her kids primarily because she didn't want her kids to become influenced by other kids who didn't have her same values. (They weren't Christain, so it's not like they got to associate with people at church or anything.) When we met them, her son was literally bouncing off the walls because he had all this energy and had no outlet. So the unsocialized homeschooler CAN happen, but I think the parents need to really work at keeping their kids isolated.

 

For most of us though I don't think it's really much of an issue. Both my kids are in scouts, attended co-op classes with other homeschoolers, my dd plays hockey, my kids attended different camps during the summer, and they've never had any problems making friends with other kids.

 

I do think part of being socialized means how to get along with people different than yourselves. One of my dd13 friends she made in hockey is Jewish, and she's learned a lot about accepting other's religious beliefs and customs. (not eating pork, keeping kosher, etc.)

[Chris in VA]

I just wanted to say that I absolutely do believe my child should be around kids that are of different religions--I wasn't thinking about that particular value when I said what I did.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Can I just say :iagree: to all of the above! The only thing I have to add is that depending on the Sunday school, you can get experience in waiting turns, raising hands, and working in groups in that setting.

[Rose in BC]

I want my children to be socially adjusted and I believe one of the best ways to achieve this goal is for them to have a strong attachment with their parents and siblings and when possible, extended family.

 

I also believe that children are born with unique personalities and that being "social" for one child comes easier than for another. While I'm sure there are socially inept homeschooled children, I went to public school with plenty of socially inept public schooled children. I think it has less to do with where the kid goes to school and more to do with parenting and personality. Parenting you can change, personality, not so much.

 

I can only speak about my own three children, two who were adopted at the age of four (which some might see as a another adjustment strike against them). My kids each have unique personalities but each of them is able to be polite in public (okay, and sometimes not so polite), hold a conversation with people of all ages, play with kids younger than them, etc. People have hired my daughter to babysit since she was eleven and my son has been busy all summer with his lawn mowing business.

 

Equating unsocialized children with homeschooling is faulty logic. (Can you tell I have answered the "what about socialization" question a lot in my eight years of homeschooling?)

 

If anything, in my experience, with my unique family, homeschooling is what aided to well socialized children.

[iquilt]

I love that book so much I was considering buying several as Christmas presents this year, especially for my in-laws! When I took my oldest up there this summer my MIL dragged her to every kid she could find to see if DD could still interact with other children. When we told them all 3 would be playing soccer this fall she was shocked to find out homeschoolers would allow their children to play team sports with "other" kids. I'm still in shock over that one.

[Laurie4b]

Homeschooling can produce very well socialized children.

 

What I'm about to say is not going to be wildly popular. However, it's based on long experience in the homeschooling world. I've seen homeschooling produce some poorly socialized kids, too. There are three reasons that I can think of: 1) the parents themselves do not fit in well socially. It may be genes, but genes could be compounded by an environment that doesn't expose the kids to other role models . 2) Too much sheltering. This can go hand in hand with #1. If parents actively seek to protect their children from everyone but "like-minded" people, it can have a negative impact on the children's ability to interact with others not like them. Additionally, too much sheltering can paradoxically prevent the child from developing the ability to resist peer pressure when he or she is finally exposed to it. I've seen homeschooled kids from these kinds of environments "explode" once they are in high school or college . (Note: I'm not saying some sheltering is wrong. The younger the child, the more sheltering is appropriate. But there is such a thing as too much, imo. That's what I"m talking about.) 3) A child-centered approach can produce child-centered children. You hear this complaint from people serving in co-ops frequently. There is a sizeable portion of kids who are always late, don't do homework, don't pay attention, etc. There are different types of socialization dangers if you send your dc to public school or private school.

 

Now having said all that... a homeschooling lifestyle can make for children, teens, and young adults who are very well socialized. Some of the most outstanding young adults I know were homeschooled---and some of the most outstanding young adults I know were public-schooled. I think the key is not so much in how they are schooled, but how they are parented, and to a signficant extent, what their neurological wiring is like. The kid's own choices, including their spiritual choices, play a huge role.

 

Need for socialization does influence my decisions about outside activities, but it is rarely *just* socialization. I like them to have some outside classes when they are younger because there is a "grammar" to outside classes that is important to "get" if you are college-bound. When they are older, for me, outside classes become an academic necessity. They also fulfill a socialization need. Same with sports--the kids don't play sports to make friends, but because they like the sport; however, they do make friends and they learn to get along with different people, including unfair and immature coaches! We don't live where there are a lot of other kids nearby, so playdates were important for my kids. I'm not great at arranging them, so I"m thankful for the friends who take the initiative.

 

I see no need for preschool classes unless it's a once or twice a week thing just to be around a group of other children. Preschools are popping up all over right now. I think it's more an effect of the "gotta have them ready for kindergarten where they've gotta to be ready to read or they won't be ready for first grade and they've gotta be taking AP college courses in high school so they can get into a good college" kind of pressure that we are seeing currently. I don't think preschool is necessary. For our kids, an hour of Sunday school was just fine.

[Audrey]

I have Twilight on reserve at the library but in the meantime, I have this book The Well-Adjusted Child: The Social Benefits of Homeschooling by Rachel Gathercole and two other books to read until Twilight gets here.

 

My dh and FIL have stated that they feel great that ds4 will be in preschool b/c of the socialization aspect. The only part of the socialization that I want for ds4 to learn is how to work in group setting moving from one task to another, to help prepare him for being at home in K.

 

 

In the book, The Well-Adjusted Child, I read this in the preface:

 

"Every day I see people worry about homeschoolers' socialization, just as I once did. I see people right and left choose not to homeschool, solely because of a vague sense that their children (or they themselves) will not have adequate social opportunities. They believe that they and their children will be stuck at home, friendless, weird. They have no idea that, at that very moment, droves of homeschooled children are playing at the park together, sleeping over at each other's houses, and taking classes together.

 

 

 

 

 

Homeschooling parents are gathering for picnics, brunches, game nights at each other's houses, and so on. "

 

It goes on to say that the opportunities are there. This book is really to help a new homeschooler feel more at ease about their socialization fears, from what I've read so far. My hope in reading this book is that it will show that a child raised at home (through homeschooling) indeed becomes a well-adjusted adult.

 

I, personally, think my children have ample socializing time through their current activities:

 

Ds4: soccer, church youth program and Sunday School, playing with neighbor's kids, going places with me including to the park and arranged play dates

 

Dd8: church youth program and Sunday School, playing with neighbor's kids, going places with me including to the park and arranged play dates

 

In my mind there is a fine line between having a social life and having a family life- the family life should always be dominant and I protect that as much as I can.

 

I'm interested:

1. What is your comfort zone with socialization?

- Do you participate in certain events just to satisfy socialization for your children?

 

2. What drives your involvement in outside activities? What is the primary reason? Academic or socialization?

 

 

I agree with what you've noted here. This isn't really addressing your questions, but...

 

Doesn't it get tiring to feel like you (we) always have to justify the socialization aspect of homeschooling? I really get tired of all the posts that focus on this. I'm not tired of the posters --- just the endless pressure on homeschoolers to PROVE that you (we) are socializing our kids properly (whatever the heck 'properly' really means).

 

It's the very last criticism that people have of homeschooling. It's the last thing that nay-sayers can latch on to about it.

 

It's a bogus argument.

 

Even if my kid doesn't play every day with other kids. Even if he isn't involved in several sports/activities/groups, he is still being 'socialized.' It p*sses me off to no end that nay-sayers and the general public at large equate PUBLIC SCHOOL with socialization, as if that is the only way a human being can develop potential of any kind.

 

So, to answer your questions:

1) I'm confortable with my child being in no activities at all, if that's what he chooses. Interaction with other children isn't a factor. Children are lousy at socializing anyway.

 

2) Real interest drives our involvement in activities. If there's no interest. We don't do it.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Socialization for me does not mean planned activities or playdates. Socialization for me means learning how to survive on one's own, not expect mom and dad to always be there to fix mistakes, iron out disagreements, prevent bad things from happening.

 

It's really hard to find a balance with homeschooling. In public school dd would be on her own and would be getting many more socialization benefits- not meaning being around other kids- but learning how to survive in the world on her own. I agree the opportunities are out there though.

 

Dd is involved in activities that interest her and enrich her experiences. Sometimes, she also gets the benefit of socialization. I think she gets more socialization experience from my asking her to run into the store by herself and purchase a small list of items than she does in dance class, though.