creekland Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) ETA: This is "done" now - feel free to scroll to the end if you want to see how it ended. Thanks all! It's my last couple of days with my full time gig and I've been grading essay questions on our Mitosis test given Friday. Too many of my students in my "good" class messed up one of the essay questions with the same wrong answers (discussing the differences of chromatin, chromosomes, and chromatid pairs, but that really doesn't matter). Few, if any, students in my other class made the same mistake. These kids all have an extra Bio section with another science teacher... and there's one in particular who doesn't teach Bio that is coming to mind. I strongly suspect she might have told these kids incorrect info, BUT, they could have listened in class or read their book and gotten the correct info, so I'm undecided about what to do - if anything - with their grades. Any thoughts? My mind is really unsure at the moment. I might not even be correct with my suspicions, but it's really unusual for so many kids in this class to make the SAME mistake on an essay question. Edited November 24, 2015 by creekland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Is retesting them an option? (That might not work at all, but it's all I can think of at the moment.) Maybe going over the process of mitosis so that they understand it correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 So, the students who answered incorrectly all the same way share a bio section and you think perhaps the teacher there was "helping" with homework? I would consider bringing in all the students, sitting them down and saying "your work is remarkably similar" silence "you all made the same error(s)" silence then whatever appropriate warning? You are ask doomed to a future o involving French fries! Or, however you usually dismiss. DH says also check the Wikipedia page. Sometimes that is where the erroneous information starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Is retesting them an option? (That might not work at all, but it's all I can think of at the moment.) Maybe going over the process of mitosis so that they understand it correctly? No, retesting is not an option. Our last day is tomorrow, then we're off for a week for Thanksgiving break and their normal teacher is returning from her maternity leave and starting the next section. I've written the correct answers on all of their tests. I believe I have writer's cramp from it now! So, the students who answered incorrectly all the same way share a bio section and you think perhaps the teacher there was "helping" with homework? I would consider bringing in all the students, sitting them down and saying "your work is remarkably similar" silence "you all made the same error(s)" silence then whatever appropriate warning? You are ask doomed to a future o involving French fries! Or, however you usually dismiss. DH says also check the Wikipedia page. Sometimes that is where the erroneous information starts. Actually, no. Yes, they all share a Bio section where "extra" Bio "stuff" is gone over to help cram in all the material for our state Keystone test in Jan. My suspicion is that their teacher taught this section incorrectly... so I hate to punish the kids if they are relating what they learned in that class, but what they learned is wrong. There's no way cheating was involved and while there are study groups, there aren't this many who participate in any one group. I just looked at Wiki. Wiki has the info correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 That is tricky... Do you have one student you really trust? If you could look at her lecture notes then you would know if they were given this incorrect information from the teacher. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockhopper Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I would either a) not count that question for that class b) re-teach the material, then at the end of class, hand back the tests, and let students re-do that question and re-submit. If it's most likely that they were mis-taught by another teacher, I wouldn't penalize them for it. But it is a good teaching opportunity for them about not taking the instructor's word as law... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Yikes. I will have to figure out something to do. I just put the grades into my computer and this class now falls BEHIND my other class with the average (82 vs 85). This class has always been AHEAD of my other class by about the same margin. That question can be up to 10% of their grade on this test - though most didn't miss all of it, but I'll also admit I was giving them a few points rather liberally and wouldn't have if I were black & white on the issue. I can trust the whole class, so I'll ask them about it tomorrow... then I may have to discuss options with the head of the science dept. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 If it's most likely that they were mis-taught by another teacher, I wouldn't penalize them for it. But it is a good teaching opportunity for them about not taking the instructor's word as law... My thoughts exactly, but they really should be able to trust what another science teacher (albeit, not Bio) teaches them. Still... if they had read the book, or listened better when "I" went over it for review... (not as in depth since it was covered in that other section). Not every student missed it. Then again, some who didn't might not be in that section due to placement elsewhere, band, chorus, or orchestra as those meet at the same time. We have a really short class period tomorrow due to a food bank fundraiser. This whole situation is frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Creekland, my friend that teaches in the local high school had that happen once when the librarian - assisting a study group - actually did several geometry proofs WRONG on the board, and then told the students who were right that they were wrong which culminated in those kids doing similar proofs wrong on the test though they are all normally A and B students. He was flummoxed. But what he did was call each student at home that night, and just simply talked to them, questioned them about how they studied for the test, did it make sense to them to solve the proofs this way, did they understand why they were wrong, etc. and then it came out they had been instructed incorrectly by someone who was, well let me say NOT TOP SHELF in mathematics. He told them all that they could come into class the next day, solve a different proof, and he would let the grade on that proof stand in place of the two that were done wrongly on the test. He watched them all to make sure there was no cheating, and voila, everyone got it right without breaking a sweat. Since he was able to ascertain that they had been lead astray in an unusual set of circumstances, he was happy to make the accommodation. His principal did not have a problem with it. I am not certain how much leeway you have, but I would be tempted to call and phone interview the students, you know, have a little "fishing expedition" to see what you can find out. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) I think I would go with one of these options, or with Kinsa's option, assuming you can't speak with the kids as FaithManor suggested. I would either a) not count that question for that class b) re-teach the material, then at the end of class, hand back the tests, and let students re-do that question and re-submit. If it's most likely that they were mis-taught by another teacher, I wouldn't penalize them for it. But it is a good teaching opportunity for them about not taking the instructor's word as law... Edited November 22, 2015 by reefgazer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetC Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 You can't give points for incorrect work, but you could offer a make-up assignment (for homework, perhaps since there is little class time available) related to the material which was not taught well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 I wouldn't count that question for either class. Reassign it as bonus points for the students who did answer it correctly. If my suspicion is correct, I think this is the most workable idea mentioned given the short amount of time I have. I also think it will go over well with the head of the science dept, though honestly, he'd probably be behind whatever I suggested. I'll see what the students tell me tomorrow when I hand back the tests. There are definitely some who will speak up if they were taught incorrectly. It's difficult to imagine any other scenario to be honest. Thanks Hive. I was having a tough time figuring out a fair solution to this one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'm sorry I can't be of help, but this really struck a chord with me since dd is taking an online biology class and I had to lead her through just this same topic. A chromosome become 2 sister chromatids, but then when the chromatids separate, when is it no longer a chromatid anymore and just a regular chromosome. I had a tough time sorting through the fact that it only makes sense to speak of chromatids if there are 2 of them, but once a chromosome is in its own cell it's no longer called a chromatid, even though nothing about it has really changed. So confusing! I'm now glad she didn't ask me what chromatin is. Actually, do I have this right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'm sorry I can't be of help, but this really struck a chord with me since dd is taking an online biology class and I had to lead her through just this same topic. A chromosome become 2 sister chromatids, but then when the chromatids separate, when is it no longer a chromatid anymore and just a regular chromosome. I had a tough time sorting through the fact that it only makes sense to speak of chromatids if there are 2 of them, but once a chromosome is in its own cell it's no longer called a chromatid, even though nothing about it has really changed. So confusing! I'm now glad she didn't ask me what chromatin is. Actually, do I have this right? I suspect many teachers can be super picky on this if they want to be, but the way we teach it... chromatin - decondensed or uncoiled DNA strands found mostly during Interphase (a little in Prophase or Telophase due to condensing/decondensing) chromosomes - condensed or coiled DNA found in Prophase - Telophase; able to be seen under a microscope paired/sister chromatids - 2 identical chromosomes linked together at the centromere for mitosis. These get pulled apart at Anaphase so each daughter cell will be a clone of the original. Once pulled apart the "single" can be called a chromatid or chromosome more or less interchangeably. What the kids in this class were getting incorrect was messing up chromosomes and chromatin. That is definitely incorrect. It's all fixed now. And I'm officially done with the full time bit now too. These classes were awesome. Both gave me thank you cards and gifts and the one I had over our lunch period also had a full blown party set up (using other teachers as accomplices to get into my room while we (teachers) were eating lunch elsewhere). The real teacher and I have totally different styles of teaching. The kids know this. They had her for the first month of school. I'll admit to feeling quite honored that so many asked me if I could stay, esp since they are some of the top kids in our school. I like my methods too, of course, but outside confirmation from so many definitely is a nice mental bit to make me think I'm on the right track. It keeps me loved at school too. ;) But I love my freedom and part time work too much to give in and get a real teaching certificate... Ten weeks of full time is pretty much my limit I think. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiMi 4under3 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Can you omit that particular question in grading the test? Just don't count it. ETA: Just saw that you fixed it... :) Edited November 24, 2015 by MiMi 4under3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 So, I know I'm not the only one who wonders . . . What did you end up doing? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 So, I know I'm not the only one who wonders . . . What did you end up doing? I ended up spending my night trying to figure out an equitable answer for nothing. Today in class I handed the tests back out, mentioned the one question so many had missed, and waited for any complaints. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. This is not a class that would have stayed silent had they been taught incorrectly, so I'm now under the assumption that those who got it wrong truly didn't grasp those differences correctly. It stymies me that my "lesser" class got it right more than my "higher" class, but I suppose that's why we actually give the test rather than assigning grades on expectations. Out of 24 students who tested in the class, 11 had grades higher than 90%, so it wasn't that bad - just not quite as good as it could have been. Many students also told me they had 2 or 3 tests that same day, so their studying focus could have been elsewhere. It was at least divided. My averages were comparable (or a little higher) than other Bio classes, so that makes it reasonable too. Being able to stagger schedules is another pro of homeschooling BTW. And in general, I'm relieved to know there wasn't a teacher teaching it incorrectly! 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) nm Edited November 24, 2015 by foxbridgeacademy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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