How many colleges require PE and health for admissions?

[happypamama]

I live in PA. We have to cover PE, health, and speech sometime in secondary, but none are listed as requirements for a high school diploma in PA. As a comparison, our state flagship university does not require any to be completed in high school.

 

DD is doing a small health unit this year, eighth. I'm of the opinion that health and safety is best approached from an as-needed approach, and I'd rather not have to find some sort of official something to cover 60 hours of high school health or whatever if I don't need to. She did speech last year in seventh.

 

Similar with PE. Her main PE is martial arts classes, which is also her main (currently only) official extracurricular activity. I am intending to list MA as PE for seventh and eighth, to check off the secondary PE requirement, but on the high school transcript, I will list it as an extracurricular.

 

That will satisfy evaluation requirements and diploma requirements, but I'd like to see more info about whether colleges required PE, health, and speech in grades nine through twelve. I don't care if your child was homeschooled, public schooled, or private schooled, whether your state required those subjects, or whether you did them anyway because you felt they were good ideas. I only care whether or not the college your child ended up choosing required or strongly encouraged those subjects. If you have sent more than one child to college, please answer the second and third questions applicably. Thanks!

[Luckymama]

I'm on college search 2.5 ;) None of the schools the kids have looked at, applied to, nor matriculated to have required PE, speech, or health in high school.

[happypamama]

I'm on college search 2.5 ;) None of the schools the kids have looked at, applied to, nor matriculated to have required PE, speech, or health in high school.

Here's hoping that's the case overall -- it sure would be nice not to need to think about those things again!

[creekland]

I have no idea to be honest.  We never looked at whether those were required.  My guys had PE and Health as courses and did some EC public speaking.  Middle son actually had a DE Public Speaking course too.  Youngest had the course in ps.  In hindsight I'd have had oldest do a DE Public Speaking course too - not because he really needed it as he speaks in public just fine, but because it seemed like such an interesting course.

 

I have no idea how much of other subjects my guys' colleges required either.  I just knew we had enough by doing what we wanted to do regardless of whether they went to college or not.  ;)

[happypamama]

I have no idea to be honest. We never looked at whether those were required. My guys had PE and Health as courses and did some EC public speaking. Middle son actually had a DE Public Speaking course too. Youngest had the course in ps. In hindsight I'd have had oldest do a DE Public Speaking course too - not because he really needed it as he speaks in public just fine, but because it seemed like such an interesting course.

 

I have no idea how much of other subjects my guys' colleges required either. I just knew we had enough by doing what we wanted to do regardless of whether they went to college or not. ;)

Did your boys do formal sports at all? I could see doing something, whatever they wanted, as PE if their main EC wasn't already a sport. I think that's what kind of bugs me about that -- I want that to be an EC and would rather not have to then remember to fit more PE into our schedule, if that makes sense. And public speaking -- their EC provides them with natural public speaking opportunities, albeit not with actual formal speech-writing, so I feel like they're getting practice with some of the aspects of public speaking. I could see including a little unit as part of LA about speech-writing and giving, but it would be nice to leave that as an optional DE class on it if they wanted to. DD just wants to do languages all day, so she will likely use some of her electives and possible DE for that, and it would be nice if we didn't need to substantiate public speaking, if that makes sense. Otoh, my second son is a big entertaining extrovert, so he might enjoy a public speaking class as an elective, but he might do the minimum in foreign languages. I'm very excited to see where their individual interests take them, and somewhere, we will have to go with the minimum in some subject or another for lack of more hours in the day. I'm just trying to figure out where we can do that and not shoot ourselves in the foot. :). Thank you!

[creekland]

Well... our PE consisted of a bit of hiking and some basic knowledge about sports - esp those we liked.  Mine also knew a bit more about equines (and equine sports) than most.

 

I'd hardly call it a hard course.  We didn't use any of that as ECs though.  We used Scuba as an EC, but never really counted it as PE.

 

Public speaking isn't a required course at the ps where I work, but kids do quite a few presentations in their classes.  It is offered as an elective course.

 

Health, to us, was formal one year.  It's the only time I used Abeka as I liked the in depth they provided and how easy it was to use (content was still in depth).  The rest of our health (every year) consisted of them keeping up with Nutrition Action and writing a summary about the topic of their choice in each magazine.  The rest consisted of normal discussions as we saw anything intriguing.

 

Considering at least two of the three are quite healthy with many of their choices in life (exercise and food choices), I consider their foundation to be just fine.  When they're home we'll continue discussions (we always do) and I'll likely mention some of the newer things I've learned via the diet threads on here, but still... I think their foundation was/is just fine.

 

Not everything needs to be a full fledged course to be on a transcript IMO.  But then again, I don't always follow meaningless rules as long as I'm satisfied with what I see.  And I get to see a bit from working at ps.  My guys could have an intelligent discussion about many health topics (and controversies) with pretty much anyone.  That's my goal with conveying knowledge.   ;)

[73349]

Many high schools don't even offer health or public speaking classes. I've never heard of someone not getting into college over PE.

[Garga]

Good question. Last year I did a brief search of college admission requirements on a few college websites. None of them listed PE, Speech, Health (or Civics) as requirements. So we studied all of those in 7th grade to meet the PA homeschool requirements. Unless I hear otherwise on this poll, I'm counting those boxes as checked.

 

That does nothing to answer your question, really, since my kids aren't in college as you know, but I just had to comment...because...no reason. Just wanted to comment!

[happypamama]

Good question. Last year I did a brief search of college admission requirements on a few college websites. None of them listed PE, Speech, Health (or Civics) as requirements. So we studied all of those in 7th grade to meet the PA homeschool requirements. Unless I hear otherwise on this poll, I'm counting those boxes as checked.

 

That does nothing to answer your question, really, since my kids aren't in college as you know, but I just had to comment...because...no reason. Just wanted to comment!

Yes, I need to check out all those links you sent me! I'm glad you commented. I will take this back to our group as we have more kids moving into the high school years. I haven't looked at a lot of colleges because the sheer scope of picking a college overwhelms me at this point, especially compared to my own ridiculously easy college search (I know it'll all work itself out in due time, but I don't have btdt advice to give my kids), but since my college's admissions requirements are pretty basic, I try to remember that maybe our kids will want to go somewhere else, and maybe other schools will require other things.

 

Civics. I had a momentary panic there because we aren't hugely into following news and politics, but then I remembered that they hit civics in current events and speech class last year, so there's no pressure, at least for the oldest one. Whew!

[Lori D.]

Some states with stricter homeschool regulations require credits is these subject areas for graduation from high school. That's the only time I've ever seen any of these subjects as requirements. When these are required by states for high school graduation, I usually see the following:

 

- Health = 0.5 credit (occasionally 1 credit)

- PE = 1.0 credit (sometimes 2 credits)

- Speech/Public Speaking is not a separate requirement, but is sometimes required as part of one of the English credits -- usually 0.25 to 0.5 credit in one of the years of high school English

 

Other courses (other than core subjects of Math, English, Science, Social Studies, Foreign Language, Fine Arts) I have seen required by some states for graduation:

- 0.5 credit = Driver's Ed

- 1.0 credit = Computer

- 1.0 credit = Career / Vocational-Tech 

 

Civics (the rights & duties of citizenship) is often folded into the Government credit as a unit, just as Personal Finance (applying money principles to self/family) is often a unit that is folded into an Economics credit.

 

re: college required courses

I have never seen PE, Health, or Speech (or those other subjects) as requirements for *college admission*. Colleges do accept these subjects as Electives, along with many other types of classes. :)

 

 

In answer to your questions:

 

No, these subjects were not required by our state for homeschoolers. Our state's board of education requires public high schools to include 0.5 credit of Speech/Public Speaking as part of 1 of the 4 high school English credits; and it also requires public schools to include information about state history as part of US history for high school, but does not require Health or PE. However, starting with the class of 2017, public school students in our state must pass a Civics test in order to graduate.

 

We have 2 DSs; both have gone to community college and/or a 4-year university.

No, these subjects were not required by the colleges.

Yes, I felt these topics were important enough as life skills to include them in our high schooling -- only one counting towards a credit, the rest we considered to be "part of life learning":

 

- informal (no credit awarded) Health topics throughout 7th-12th grades, for life preparation

- informal (no credit awarded) Driver's Ed training in 10th-11th grades, for safety

- informal (no credit awarded) career exploration in 11th-12th grades, for post high school preparation

- computer skills, throughout 7th-12th grade -- DSs self-taught out of their own interest

- co-op class on Study Skills, for developing an important school skill (not counted towards a credit)

- co-op class on Public Speaking, for developing an important life skill (not counted towards a credit)

- 0.5 credit of PE each year of high school, to develop a lifestyle habit of physical activity and to try out new activities

 

 

My only regret as far as those "extra" types of subjects was not trying harder to find time in grades 11th-12th for DSs to go through some sort of 1-year certificate program through dual enrollment at the community college, in order to learn a skilled trade that they could use as a "fall-back" job if needed in the future.  :)

 

One thing I would suggest as being very helpful as part of a Speech/Public Speaking unit or credit is putting together a powerpoint / visual slide presentation, as our DSs have had that as part of several college class requirements -- either group or individual presentations, with supporting slides or powerpoint.

[Grantmom]

I don't have a child in college yet, but I will also chime in that none of the colleges we have looked at so far have mentioned anything about PE, health, or speech in their requirements.  I have in fact not seen anything that gave any sort of requirement for a certain number of credits or  anything that mentioned electives of any sort.  Just among the colleges we have looked at, the only requirements I have seen are things like the core subjects, for example, 4 years of English, 3 years of science with a lab, etc.  And even some of those have said, "this is what we recommend" rather than saying it is required.

 

So, we are not putting any of those things on the transcript.  My kids are getting tons of public speaking through their classes and their ECs.  And they spend many hours on sports and generally being active, so I guess I will likely include those things in whatever thing we write up for the colleges.  But I won't make them a credit.

 

However, that brings up a really good point about number of credits on the transcript.  I wonder if, even if they don't require those things to be listed, if it might affect some colleges first glance at a transcript to not have those extra credits listed.  I mean, I feel like we are spending time on them and they are incorporated into many other things, but how do they know that?  For example, I was talking to a kid in public school the other day and he was taking only 4 classes (block schedule so they get in 8 classes a year).  However, one of those was driver's ed.  And the other three were what would be considered easier classes.  So, that student will have 8 credits at the end of the year.  But if my child is taking year-long classes, and only taking 6 classes, then he only has 6 credits at the end of the year.  He is taking a much more challenging courseload though, and is also still doing those other things like PE, drivers ed, etc, just not officially on the transcript.

 

So, just wondering if any of that might affect a college's initial glance at the student's application, when they are sorting through which ones to toss and which ones to look at more closely.

 

[regentrude]

None of the12  colleges DD applied to required PE or health.

 

But to ward off any that might have done:

We listed her sport (horseback riding) as an extracurricular and used the hiking, rock climbing and mountaineering we do together as a family for a yearly 0.5 credit in PE on her transcript - easy.

I agree that health is best covered on an as-needed basis. We do not do a "course", but cover the relevant topics informally, through conversation or books, during the high school years, and they take a First Aid class and become CPR certified. For all this together, I awarded 0.5 credit for "Health". I see no need for a designated class, but I see a need for teens to be educated about their bodies - and if they are, that's the health credit, pass/fail, so whatever college wants to can check the box.

[Grantmom]

Was the 0.5 credit you awarded for Health just a one time thing?  Or do you mean per year also, like for PE?

[regentrude]

Was the 0.5 credit you awarded for Health just a one time thing?  Or do you mean per year also, like for PE?

 

One time thing. I do not spend 60 hours each year on health related topics to merit a half credit every year - but over the course of their entire high school time, sure.

 

OTOH, we spend a LOT of time mountaineering, together with educating them about backcountry ethics, leave no trace, navigation, rock climbing and canyoneering techniques, equipment use - so the half credit per year was well justified.

 

[FaithManor]

One time thing. I do not spend 60 hours each year on health related topics to merit a half credit every year - but over the course of their entire high school time, sure.

 

OTOH, we spend a LOT of time mountaineering, together with educating them about backcountry ethics, leave no trace, navigation, rock climbing and canyoneering techniques, equipment use - so the half credit per year was well justified.

 

I was thinking the same thing. We did not ever have a curriculum/text, but on the other hand we have taught the kids a lot of health and nutrition through these years approaching adulthood as well as first aid, and even more advanced topics since their sister is a paramedic and one grandmother a retired nursing professor.

 

We kayak, canoe, hike, cross country ski, downhill ski, and simply walk a lot locally so the boys are very active. Though I never awarded credit because none of the colleges they have applied to so far have required it on their transcripts, I could easily justify credit for both PE and Health if needed. That is one of the beautiful things about homeschooling...the practical approach to healthy living is easier to find time for due to having more flexibility. Our local high schools do nothing but practice team sports for PE and never talk about life long finess and health is a class that mostly non college bound students take as the college bound kids can't fit in with the limited scheduling offered. The class is rather watered down though the one highlight that I do think is great is that they teach CPR and students can get certified. But that's about it. I like our way better, LOL!

[Lori D.]

...that brings up a really good point about number of credits on the transcript.  I wonder if, even if they don't require those things to be listed, if it might affect some colleges first glance at a transcript to not have those extra credits listed.  I mean, I feel like we are spending time on them and they are incorporated into many other things, but how do they know that? ...

 

So, just wondering if any of that might affect a college's initial glance at the student's application, when they are sorting through which ones to toss and which ones to look at more closely.

 

That's where a separate extracurricular list comes in handy, for listing things like sports, clubs/organizations, community involvement/volunteering, etc. But I would also be careful to not go overboard there, either. (Like counting even the one time in 9th grade little Suzy went to one meeting of a group to see if she was interested in joining  :tongue_smilie: .)

 

I really think colleges assume things like driver's ed, study skills, cooking/cleaning, etc.  are basic life skills that a student IS doing, and it can really look like padding to add those as credits on a transcript or as activities on an extracurriculars list. Or, college admission offices just mentally dismiss that credit since it's not of interest or need for them, knowing some high schools automatically put that credit on there, and others don't.

 

And college admission offices are definitely smart enough to see the difference between a student with 28 credits that include Driver's Ed and Study Skills as credits but only has 3 sciences and math going up through Alg. 2 -- vs. a student with 24 credits who has 4-5 science credits and math going up through Calculus or Statistics, has AP courses, and is involved in several well-respected extracurricular activities. College admission offices look at the whole picture of the student, not just the number of credits. ;)

 

As far as whether or not to count some of these subjects as credit or list on an extracurricular document: YES, if your student accomplishes the learning in an unusual way (ex: internship in a foreign country); is so proficient that the studentt teaches the basic skill to others; or goes "above and beyond" simple life skills level of learning (ex: studies and develops chef or cake decorating techniques), then definitely add it to the extracurriculars list, and possibly the credit list if it is actual coursework quality.

 

Another idea: you can always blend in some of these short/miscellaneous subjects in with another credit and then explain in detail in the separate course description document. For example, explain that PE credit was earned through accrued hours of physical activity and basic health instruction -- maybe even entitle the credit "Health & PE". Or, for example, part of the grade xx English credit included composition instruction/practice, literature study of X, Y, and Z novels, and a unit on Public Speaking that included presentations of (fill in the blank) types.

 

Or, put all the "odds and ends" together as a 1-credit class of "Life Skills", and explain on the course description document that was units in Driver's Ed, Study Skills, Personal Finance, Career Exploration, Public Speaking, etc.

 

 

Typically, most non-competitive/non-selective colleges will list a *minimum* of about 20 credits for admission (top tier/competitive schools have higher requirements), usually listing something like this:

 

4 credits = English

3-4 credits = Math  (Alg. 1, Geom., Alg. 2, and a higher math with Alg. 2 as a pre-requisite)

3 credits = Science  (with labs) (often Biology and Chemistry preferred)

3 credits = Social Science  (1 credit = American History; 1 credit = World History; 0.5 credit each = Econ/Gov't)

2 credits = Foreign Language  (same language)

1 credit = Fine Arts

Electives

 

However, in order to be competitive for scholarships, students need to go "above and beyond" the minimum amount of credits.

 

And if applying to a top tier, or a competitive or selective school, the student absolutely needs to have more than the minimum required credits, esp. in the academic areas (Math, Science, Foreign Language, Social Science, English), plus the student needs to show high level of working (high SAT/ACT test scores, AP tests, honors courses, dual enrollment). And the student also needs to show that s/he is an interesting student and is doing more than just schoolwork (so, a variety of extracurricular activities and community service/volunteering).

 

At what point does "above and beyond" turn into "too many"? That will probably vary on the college. The average college knows high schools usually require between 22-24 credits for graduation, so they certainly expect to see that many credits (which is more than the average college's admission requirements). Many school districts have students doing 7 credits per year, so a total of 28 credits is not going to look odd. Some schools do a block scheduling so that students accomplish 8 credits per year, so colleges are used to looking at the profile of the high school, and will know that it is standard for students who graduated from those schools to have up to 32 credits.

 

And students who do a lot of dual enrollment will have a large number of credits, as 1 semester of dual enrollment of a college course typically equals 1 credit of high school work, so it's easy to accumulate a large number of credits -- so in that case, colleges see there is a very specific reason why the student has a high number of credits.

 

What is going to look odd is a student with over 28-30 credits who doesn't have a "good reason" for it (ex: dual enrollment, school's credit policy) -- and esp. if a lot of the credits are more life-skill-based (ex: Driver's Ed, Study Skills, Career Exploration) or outright "fluff" (Underwater Basket-Weaving) -- when, instead, colleges are expecting those extra credits to be either academic-based (ex: Pre-Calculus, Calculus, and Statistics as additional math credits beyond Alg. 2), or interest-based (ex: multiple music credits due to instrument learning; or, multiple credits in an elective area of high interest, such as culinary arts, computer, electronics, etc).

 

 

BEST of luck as you wear your administrator hat  :hat:  and work through all of these details! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Kareni]

My daughter did not take a formal Health class in high school. In all the colleges that my daughter considered, we did not see one that actually required a health credit.

My state does require health of public schooled students (though the requirements for homeschooled students are different). On the homeschool profile that I sent with my daughter's college applications, I had the following statement:

"DD has no formal health credit on her transcript; however, we have covered this subject on an informal basis throughout her high school years."

I also do not recall any of the colleges she considered requiring PE though my daughter did have several credits of PE that she accumulated through out of the home courses.

Regards,
Kareni

[EndOfOrdinary]

Lori mentioned this above, but in our state it is mandantory to graduate high school. State universities have to see it for admission. It is ridiculous, and only half a credit of PE, half a credit of health, but I have known students rejected and taking a very annoying community college semester to get the boxes checked.

[Luckymama]

Lori mentioned this above, but in our state it is mandantory to graduate high school. State universities have to see it for admission. It is ridiculous, and only half a credit of PE, half a credit of health, but I have known students rejected and taking a very annoying community college semester to get the boxes checked.

AZ? *scurries off to read U of A's website again*

[Lori D.]

AZ? *scurries off to read U of A's website again*

 

No. I believe EndOfOrdinary is in a PNW state. :)

[happypamama]

Thank you, everyone! This has been a super helpful discussion, both the part about what colleges require and the part about how many credits.

 

I am relieved to see that the vast majority of colleges don't care about PE, etc. I certainly think that physical activity, especially of the lifelong variety, is good and necessary, and I think that studying health topics, etc. is important too; I'm certainly not going to force my children to sit on the couch all day and discourage health discussion. We encourage those things, discuss them as they come up or become relevant in some way, or whatever. But since I have enough to do in general, it's nice to know that I will likely not need to substantiate those subjects in any formal way.

 

The discussion of credits is helpful too. I think we will aim for 4 credits of each major subject (and more if they do DE for any of them), 4 credits of foreign language, plus about 2 credits a year in other things. For my DD, those other credits would, currently, come from Latin and fine arts (art, music and art history/appreciation, and guitar), but it'll be fun to see if they change.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Nope. We are Washington. No one would bat an eye if the credits just magically appeared around here. It is just a hoop to jump through, but a rather annoying one. Public high schools are sticklers and public universities just use it as a pile weeder. It is easy enough to do, but if forgotten it is just plain frustrating.

 

It is even required for a community college Associates! Most ridiculous class I ever took! :)

[creekland]

Remember, one can always use a P/F option on a transcript.  We did this with PE and Health and saved "grades" (ie GPA) for the major subjects.

 

This way anyone looking saw "normal" subjects kids from our ps would have had (PE - three years - half credit each year, Health - one year - half credit, Driver's Ed - one year - half credit, Fitness and Wellness - one year - half credit), but could easily see that we were NOT padding the GPA with these courses (or Wood Shop, etc). 

 

Many admissions folks SCAN applications quickly deciding which pile to put apps in.  Accept, reject, or look at more closely.  They do not have TIME to look in depth at an app.  We wanted to make sure ours didn't end up in the reject pile - and none did.

 

At many schools, test scores are important - esp for homeschoolers.  Otherwise, we wanted them to see ALL the basics in their quick scan to avoid that reject pile, then spend more of that quick scan time on ECs and essays, etc, if desired.

 

I never did any course descriptions.  They weren't needed with what we provided.  

[Mom22ns]

None of the colleges either of my kids has applied to have required any of those classes. However, in our search, I have seen at least two colleges that list PE as a high school requirement. However, they were non-competitive state colleges with a guaranteed acceptance with an ACT score of 22 or 24. 

[Ellie]

Good question. Last year I did a brief search of college admission requirements on a few college websites. None of them listed PE, Speech, Health (or Civics) as requirements.

 

At the high school level, "civics" is not usually required. Government is (sometimes government/economics combined). I suppose "civics" might be covered in the government course, but just not usually as a separate subject.

[Garga]

At the high school level, "civics" is not usually required. Government is (sometimes government/economics combined). I suppose "civics" might be covered in the government course, but just not usually as a separate subject.

 

 

That's good to know.  Our PA homeschool law requires "civics" to be taught sometime between 7th and 12th grade.  We got that out of the way in 7th, but I do want to do an economics class in high school.  I'll be sure to see whether government needs to be part of that or not.

 

Thanks!

[Julie of KY]

Univ. of Kentucky requires:

1/2 credit health

1/2 credit PE

1 credit - history and appreciation of visual, performing arts

as well as typical credits.

[creekland]

 

 

Univ. of Kentucky requires:

1/2 credit health

1/2 credit PE

1 credit - history and appreciation of visual, performing arts

as well as typical credits.

 

(Not sure why it didn't quote properly...)

 

Interesting with the bolded.  My guys had that too (Art History), so we'd have had it covered had any of their schools wanted it (still no idea).  Middle son was asked about it in one of his college interviews - likely because it stood out as different - a good thing.  We didn't do it for colleges, though.  We did it because I thought it'd be a great course for educated young men to have.

 

That's pretty much why we did all of our courses (except PE).

 

Definitely no regrets.

[Grantmom]

That is interesting.  That is the first I have seen.  Really good to know.  Thank you for sharing!