Ball Point Pens Led to the Decline of Cursive?

[kewb]

It's an interesting theory but I think it is a load of hooey.

 

I learned cursive in elementary school using ball point pens. From 5th grade on every assignment had to be written in pen and in cursive.

 

People don't learn how to read and write cursive anymore because somewhere along the line it was decided that letting kids keyboard their papers was acceptable.

 

I made sure my kids learned cursive. I will don my tinfoil hat and say at the very least one needs to know how to read our original documents. If you can't read them youbarw now trusting someone's translation for you. That is a bad path.

 

I made sure my kids learned cursive. For 5th and 6th grade they wrote their assignments in cursive. They both have atrocious handwriting because they don't use it that often but they can read it.

[Word Nerd]

People don't learn how to read and write cursive anymore because somewhere along the line it was decided that letting kids keyboard their papers was acceptable.

 

Cursive is still taught in our district in third grade.

[kewb]

Cursive is still taught in our district in third grade.

I think they do a cursive unit in 3rd grade here, too. But after the unit is over they are not required to use it. I think that is a shame. I know a few kids who learned it in 3rd grade and now in high school struggle to read a greeting card with cursive.

It is not the fault of the ball point pen.

[Library Momma]

Cursive is still taught in our district in third grade.

 

Same here.  By 4th grade many assignments are required in cursive.  The spelling books that are used from 4th through 8th grade have the words printed in cursive.

[flyingiguana]

I thought that it was actually that it's a lot harder to print with a fountain pen, not that it's harder to do cursive with a ball point pen.  A decent ball point pen will do cursive just fine.

 

My leftie mom also got a lot of grief for writing left handed in school.  They finally gave up on her.  She's stubborn.

 

I did teach my kids to write cursive, mostly so they'd be able to READ it.  But they still can't read my mother's handwriting.  I have to translate that.

 

But I gave up cursive the minute it was no longer required. I hate it.  It makes my hand cramp up and it takes so long to write anything.  That, and I always got low grades in handwriting in school because I was more interested in getting thoughts down on paper than I was in writing less and making it look lovely.  Crazy thing, though is that all the boys in class had worse handwriting than me but better handwriting grades.  The resentment over that probably contributed a lot to my abandoning it.  (Be careful how you socialize girls.  It may backfire)

[flyingiguana]

Now I can see doing calligraphy, but that's not the same thing

[bibiche]

The aforementioned Pilot Varsity fountain pens are "disposable" and ridiculously inexpensive. Yet, are pretty good fountain pens.

 

So if you (or others) are curious to try one without spending the big bucks, this is a great option.

 

Bill

They are good pens - very smooth - and they *can* be refilled, although they weren't intended to be. DS writes with a fountain pen exclusively, so we always have a few around for when he misplaces his good fountain pen. They are also nice for sketching.

 

A link to how to refill them (cos why add to landfills?): http://peninkcillin.blogspot.com/2011/07/how-to-refill-your-pilot-varsity.html

[go_go_gadget]

Regarding lefties--did anyone else notice the angle of the paper in Mad Men when Betty was writing? It was a full 90-degree rotation to the left, which allowed for writing without smearing. It was fascinating.

 

I always hated ballpoints, and converted to fountain pens about four years ago, shortly after I remediated my penmanship with GDI. I use an italic nib, and Noodler's Bulletproof black ink. Once I learned to rotate my paper slightly to the right, I had no issues with smearing and my handwriting itself actually improved. My kids only use mechanical pencils for math, because I don't want them to get in the habit of pressing as hard as they tend to with wooden pencils. For everything else they use the Varsity fountain pens.

 

I no longer use pen and paper as such to take notes in class, but I write in cursive on my iPad, and the pen setting I use in GoodNotes is ''fountain pen''. That way I can erase, draw better graphs, write in many colors without carrying around a lot of pens, etc. I still carry my fountain pen for any on-paper writing needs, though, and sometimes write on paper just for fun.

[LucyStoner]

I think I have been required to type most papers since I was in the 6th grade. By 9th grade that was ALL papers.

 

I am 35, not 22, so typing everything isn't exactly new. I have my son, age 12, type most everything too. Typing is a life skill these days, not an optional add on class.

[AuNaturel]

I only buy uniball gel pens. They're so expensive though and I go through them fast because I grew up hand writing everything.

 

Even when I entered high school and college, the only required typed work was research papers and essays. They only started allowing people to bring in laptops to take notes when I was in college. You would see 1-3 people with them in an entire lecture hall. And I lived in Chicago at the time, so it wasn't because it was a small town. How quickly times change!

 

I absolutely hate regular ball point pens and my daughter complains that they hurt her hands and always asks to use my nice gel pens.

 

I just put in an order for 6 disposable fountain pens and a book on the Spencerian penmanship. It should be a fun change for this year and my daughter and I can learn together. :D

 

Honestly, the only thing I thought fountain pens were good for was ink drawings. I personal use the old old fashioned dip pen for that. I didn't even know you could find disposable ones! I'll come back to this thread and report back as to how we fair with the fountain pens vs gel pens.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[lailasmum]

We used fountain pens at school but I can't remember if it was compulsory or just something everyone tended to do. I hated cheap fountain pens though, so scratchy, my dad had a couple of Parker 45s that I still have and use, they were really smooth and became my pens back then. We never did the kind of cursive you learn in the USA but we did joined up writing but it was more like printing with hooks, no fancy curly capital letters either. I am not particularly drawn to using a fountain pen day to day and I'll also don't love using ballpoint pens, I like a smooth gel pen but not all gel pens are great. I personally dislike the look of cursive so I haven't felt the need to spend any time on it with my kids. They learn to join up as part of increased speed but I'm not going to bother with it beyond that. 

[regentrude]

Ah

 

I prefer to take notes by hand because for me that's a form of studying.  I imagine some people do just fine by typing notes though.  It's probably all what someone is used to.

 

Actually, no:

http://www.academia.edu/6273095/The_Pen_Is_Mightier_Than_The_Keyboard_Advantages_of_Longhand_Over_Laptop_Note_Taking

 

[AuNaturel]

 

 

I'll come back to this thread and report back as to how we fair with the fountain pens vs gel pens.

I'm back with my report.

 

My daughter has now been using fountain pens for 5 weeks. She absolutely loves them. She has zero complaints about hand pain from writing. She prefers her fountain pen to even the nicest of gel pens. No more tears during writing assignments!

 

It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows, however. The first two weeks, her penmanship worsened. She was also quite frustrated with relearning how to hold a pen and write with it. During this time we only practiced with the pen by copying down poetry, but other school assignments could be completed with any type of pen she desired. That stage passed quickly and she soon became comfortable with the new pen and preferred it to all others.

 

After she became accustomed to using the fountain pen, her penmanship has actually improved. I've also noticed far less mistakes/cross outs. I'm not sure why that is, but it's apparent. Speed is still an issue, but she is working to increase her pace.

 

If we are out and she uses a regular ball or gel pen, the improvement in penmanship is tremendous. I believe this is due to the fountain pen's limitations which unintentionally cause the hand to move differently when writing. Gel pens and ball pens keep consistent line thickness and therefore look "neater" but with better fountain pens, more practice, and increased speed, I'm sure that will eventually cease to be an issue.

 

We ordered these

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00FK3Q83A/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?qid=1444771820&sr=8-5&pi=SL75_QL70&keywords=fountain+pen+disposable

 

If I could go back in time, I would have chosen the fine tip over the medium. It's more difficult to write small without the lines running together unless the pen tip moves very swiftly without any pausing. I don't believe that would have been a problem with the fine tip.

 

When they all run dry, I plan to invest in an authentic fountain pen (not disposable). Any suggestions for nice ones that won't cost an outrageous amount?

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[bibiche]

Well, you can refill the disposables if you want (http://peninkcillin.blogspot.com/2011/07/how-to-refill-your-pilot-varsity.html), but for recommendations for a new pen, DS has and loves the Lamy ABC and a Lamy Safari.  They are both great pens. And the Safari comes in lots of fun colors.  You can get a cartridge converter for refilling the pens, which I recommend (although cartridges work better for us when traveling).  Also, DS loves having an ink eraser/overwriter pen that works with blue ink - that way he can use his fountain pen at all times because a mistake is easily erased.  

[vonfirmath]

Actually, no:

http://www.academia.edu/6273095/The_Pen_Is_Mightier_Than_The_Keyboard_Advantages_of_Longhand_Over_Laptop_Note_Taking

 

My dad, when going back to school as an adult, did find that he did better typing.

He can't read his own writing and he can't print fast enough to keep up. He could type fast enough to take notes .  And since he goes back and looks over his notes, he really does need to be able to actually READ Them.

[Tsuga]

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/08/ballpoint-pens-object-lesson-history-handwriting/402205/

 

The author of this article thinks that printing may have overtaken cursive because ball point pens are less comfortable to use than fountain pens. I've never tried a fountain pen, so I have no comment other than it's an interesting idea.

 

As if you couldn't just buy a fountain pen???

 

Anyway, most people learned to write cursive with graphite or lead.

 

I call bull about the demise of cursive--I think it's the keyboard--but I do agree that fountain pens are lovely.