Cursive: essential or not?

[kokotg]

DS 7 has excellent printing and always has. I keep thinking it's getting to be about time to start cursive with him, but I'm having a hard time figuring out...why. I write in cursive very occasionally, and I'm one of the few people I know who uses it at all as an adult. I certainly would be managing just fine without it. I always thought maybe it would be a good idea so that he wouldn't get tripped up reading other people's cursive, but I've since talked to a few people who didn't teach their kids cursive and who say they can read it fine. I don't think he'd be especially resistant to it; in fact, he has a cursive book I picked up at a yard sale or somewhere and he occasionally picks it up on his own and works on it some. But as far as doing it officially, it's just one more thing to try to fit in, and I already have a lot of those things. I'm thinking of just buying him a workbook and letting him work on it if/when he wants to, but not requiring it.

 

So--thoughts? What am I missing? Will he be passed over for promotions in 20 years if I don't make him learn cursive?

[Haiku]

By the time I was a sophomore in high school, my teachers had stopped accepting handwritten work. Everything had to be typed. Since then, aside from my signature, I have never used cursive.

 

I think it's obsolete in the computer age, and as I mentioned in another thread, I don't value it enough as an art form to spend time on when my kids could be spending time on something more worthwhile. If they want to learn, I will help them, but it won't take up prime real estate in our school day.

 

Tara

[In The Great White North]

SAT essay scores are higher (statistically) for essays written in cursive than for essay written in print.

 

One theory was that more fluid,writing enables the writing thought processes better than printing.

 

I'll see if I can find the article.

[FO4UR]

IDK if he will be passed up for promotions in the future, but a nice cursive hand is a sign that a person is well-educated (whether true or not, not my debate LOL).

 

Cursive is faster than print, which comes in handy taking notes in college, writing in class essays, and personal writing (letters to his girlfriend LOL).

[keroro]

SAT essay scores are higher (statistically) for essays written in cursive than for essay written in print.

 

One theory was that more fluid,writing enables the writing thought processes better than printing.

 

I'll see if I can find the article.

 

Is this the article you are looking for? :001_smile:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001475_pf.html

 

[keroro]

One more:

 

http://www.guardonline.com/?q=node/47304

 

The articles states, "On the essay section of the SAT, required by most colleges for admission, students writing in cursive averaged slightly higher scores than those who printed."

 

I wonder just how "slight" the difference is? Although, I do think it has other benefits and still should be taught. I just don't put a huge amount of emphasis on it. Which is strange considering how much time was spent on the subject when I was in elementary school. Now keyboarding skills are probably a lot more important than cursive.

[Medieval Mom]

...it is a worthwhile subject to learn. It's not ESSENTIAL to know history-- most people don't use it on a daily basis, nor is it likely to come up in job promotions. For that matter, it's not ESSENTIAL to learn physics, chemistry, higher mathematics, foreign languages, etc. The ESSENTIALS are really the good old 3 R's. But do you really just want to teach the basics? That's up to you! :)

 

I am biased in that I use cursive every day. It's the way I've written almost all my life! Almost all the adults I know write in cursive exclusively, except for my husband and his parents. My husband never really learned cursive (long story), and feels this lack to be a real disadvantage. (He plans on learning now as an adult.)

 

In my humble opinion, I would teach him cursive so that he at least has the OPTION of using it or not when he is an adult. :)

 

Please read this post with good-humor and friendly opinion-- I don't mean to sound too soap-boxy!;)

[Reya]

One more:

 

http://www.guardonline.com/?q=node/47304

 

The articles states, "On the essay section of the SAT, required by most colleges for admission, students writing in cursive averaged slightly higher scores than those who printed."

 

I wonder just how "slight" the difference is? Although, I do think it has other benefits and still should be taught. I just don't put a huge amount of emphasis on it. Which is strange considering how much time was spent on the subject when I was in elementary school. Now keyboarding skills are probably a lot more important than cursive.

 

 

The bar is set VERY low for the SAT "essay". If a child can write halfway decently, a 700 is assured. Just look at the examples. I wouldn't sweat it.

[Reya]

IDK if he will be passed up for promotions in the future, but a nice cursive hand is a sign that a person is well-educated (whether true or not, not my debate LOL).

 

Cursive is faster than print, which comes in handy taking notes in college, writing in class essays, and personal writing (letters to his girlfriend LOL).

 

Cursive is NOT faster than print. It's slower--by a great deal. It takes more movement, and continuity doesn't make up for that.

 

Most of the kids with the prettiest handwriting were mediocre in my school. Doctors aren't the only people notorious for bad handwriting--the "law hand" of the past was also notorious. But I guess doctors and lawyers aren't well-educated....

 

Seriously, now, if I gave a fig for loopy cursive, I'd teach loopy cursive FIRST, not teach print and then RE-teach handwriting with cursive. I don't, so we're doing Italic cursive, which is soooooo much more legible. Doing lots of historical research, as I do, I can't tell you the aggravation I face when confronted with a "beautiful," "elegant" 19th-c. hand that is all loops and teeeny, tiny illegible bumps. Yes, lovely, it looks wonderful--but when wesruxvnm are virtually indistinguishable, it leaves more than a bit to be desired. And no, it's not that I'm a person who doesn't see enough loopy cursive: If you read a lot of period fiction, you'll run into many joking references to beautifully illegible handwriting! I much prefer the "uglier" hands that are actually decipherable.

[Jill]

I don't intend to teach cursive. It seems no longer necessary. And I had uncovered studies that indicated that it is not faster and is slower than printing. I myself use a form of handwriting that I would call...um... printsive? some letters are linked and others are not. That's my second fastest mode. The best idea/writing flow I get is when typing but perhaps that's because I've taken some wrist and hand damage over the years that make handwriting a bit uncomfortable to painful for me. I'd rather spend some of that extra time learning a non-roman language, say, Arabic or Chinese. - Jill

[Michelle T]

Michelle T

[Zelda]

I'd hate to see cursive as a common writing form fall by the wayside trampled by technology. Its not like its calligraphy requiring special tools. It may not deserve hours every week but I think having it as part of your skill set makes learning it a worthwhile endeavor.

[dcjlkplus3]

I'm trying to decide this as well. We just started 2nd grade yesterday. I was thinking that we may start cursive after Christmas. Her handwriting is beautiful, but I want her to have more options. I use both print and cursive and a combination of the two, but I have noticed that cursive is faster - and thus works better for things like taking notes or journaling. My dd7 already has neater writing than her dad, who's cursive is completely illegible and has to print to be read.

[funschooler5]

I don't think it's necessary. I said this in a different thread, but I find even neat cursive harder to read than print. I'd like my kids to be able to read it, and they can write it if they want, but I'm not going to force them to learn. My oldest is doing HWT cursive right now because she wants to learn it, but I'm honestly hoping it doesn't cross over into her other schoolwork. I will keep my mouth shut and let her decide though. :001_smile:

 

BTW, the only time I write cursive is when I'm signing something, and even that's a modified version of it. A lot of those cursive captal letters are kind of ugly in my opinion.:leaving:

[kokotg]

Thanks everyone--lots to think about! I had a feeling there'd be a lot of difference of opinion on the subject ;).

 

...it is a worthwhile subject to learn. It's not ESSENTIAL to know history-- most people don't use it on a daily basis, nor is it likely to come up in job promotions. For that matter, it's not ESSENTIAL to learn physics, chemistry, higher mathematics, foreign languages, etc. The ESSENTIALS are really the good old 3 R's. But do you really just want to teach the basics? That's up to you! :)

 

 

 

I hear what you're saying, and it's an important point--certainly there are a lot of "non-essential" subjects that are still very worthwhile. But I guess what I'm getting at is trying to figure out where exactly cursive ranks on the list of non-essential but still worthwhile things we could be doing, you know? Because I can't do all of them.

 

Cadam said:

 

If you decide not to teach it now (I think it's silly to make kids learn a new writing style just when they are starting to really write for school) that doesn't prevent him from learning later if he chooses.

 

I think this really gets at my hesitation about it. I want to ask him to do more writing this year, and I don't know that I want to complicate that or frustrate him by throwing cursive in there at the same time.

[Mamagistra]

Non-essential? :001_huh:

 

:svengo:

 

~Revives and retreats to corner, thinking archaic thoughts in fusty ol' loopy cursive...~ ;)

[Zelda]

You know, at our local public school they don't start cursive until 3rd grade when the kids are 8 and 9. They still do all of their other work in printing and just gradually move away from that. Why do we care what the public school does? I don't know that we do but I thought I'd throw that in for consideration.

[Kathleen in VA]

Well, I think the whole point of cursive is that it is faster if you do it correctly. The reason is because you do not keep picking up the pen and placing it back down. Now some folks who never really mastered cursive and love to print can write awfully fast in print - so as to whether it actually is faster is a toss up. I guess it depends on the person.

 

I like Getty-Dubay for this very reason. Once you learn the print version all you have to do is learn the connecting strokes so that you can keep your pen on the paper, speeding up the writing process. The actual letter formations are the same - you just learn how to connect them. That eliminates the need to learn two different kinds of writing.

 

I do think learning to *read* cursive is essential though. Dd9 has not learned traditional cursive and occasionally receives a birthday card or letter written in it. I always have to translate. One of these days I am going to have sit down with her and teach her how to read it if nothing else.

[Reya]

Well, I think the whole point of cursive is that it is faster if you do it correctly. The reason is because you do not keep picking up the pen and placing it back down. Now some folks who never really mastered cursive and love to print can write awfully fast in print - so as to whether it actually is faster is a toss up. I guess it depends on the person.

 

I like Getty-Dubay for this very reason. Once you learn the print version all you have to do is learn the connecting strokes so that you can keep your pen on the paper, speeding up the writing process. The actual letter formations are the same - you just learn how to connect them. That eliminates the need to learn two different kinds of writing.

 

I do think learning to *read* cursive is essential though. Dd9 has not learned traditional cursive and occasionally receives a birthday card or letter written in it. I always have to translate. One of these days I am going to have sit down with her and teach her how to read it if nothing else.

 

Teachers like to say it's faster. It isn't--among proficient writers of cursive versus proficient print writers, print writers win in speed hands-down. Lifting is done in conjunction with lateral movement and so doesn't add extra time. Extra movements, however, do.

 

The later stages of Getty-Dubay have quite a bit of practice reading cursive. Otherwise, you could have her read the cursive bits of the McGuffey readers to get more practice. That's a particularly idealized hand, though--most cursive hands look nothing like it! Way too easy to read. :-)

[SBP]

I don't value it enough as an art form to spend time on when my kids could be spending time on something more worthwhile.

 

:iagree:

 

We did the Classically Cursive books their third grade year, and both of my children learned it well enough to use it if it's ever required of them. Neither chooses to on a regular basis, however, and I don't require it. I find their printing easier to read and would much, much rather they spend time learning to type/word process at this stage rather than honing their cursive writing skills.

 

SBP

[FriedClams]

I think that it's not mandatory, but if you don't know how to at least read cursive that you can easily be perceived as poorly educated. My niece is in 6th grade, an excellent student and amazing kid, but my parents were shocked that she could not read a grocery list in cursive. I can almost understand not writing it - but being unable to read it?? Like handiwork or other seemingly tedious "old fashioned" skills - I think there is a lot that one can learn from the study and practice of cursive. It's mandatory in our house.

[Paintedlady]

I require that they learn it. I write in cursive all the time and figure they might want to as well. It's certainly easy enough to do so I figure why not learn it, yk?

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Mandatory at our house, usually beginning in third grade. My three older boys have learned it without complaint. Cursive is just normal around here. DH and I both write in cursive.

 

We use A Reason for Handwriting. The "transition" book makes cursive very easy.

[Zelda]

This made me think of something I often say, "Why don't women wear hats anymore? Why did they stop wearing hats?" I'm sure there was a good reason but, darn't, I like hats.

 

Do you think people will be saying in 70 years, "Why don't people use cursive anymore? It was so pretty."

[myfatherslily]

I love cursive and use it all the time. I will absolutely teach it to all my kids:) It's not at all non-essential to me! There's some good stuff here http://www.donpotter.net/ed.htm

 

I think that if your son has shown some interest in doing it on his own, it might be good to at least introduce it for a year or so.

 

Personally, I would love if we ditched PRINT and went back to all cursive!:)

[Ellie]

Cursive is how English has been written for hundreds of years. IMHO, yes, it is necessary.

[Tabrett]

I love cursive and use it all the time. I will absolutely teach it to all my kids:) It's not at all non-essential to me! There's some good stuff here http://www.donpotter.net/ed.htm

 

I think that if your son has shown some interest in doing it on his own, it might be good to at least introduce it for a year or so.

 

Personally, I would love if we ditched PRINT and went back to all cursive!:)

 

After reading the article at the Don Potter site, it's data on learning to print is only biased on the ball and stick method of writing print. I don't know of a handwriting method that teaches ball and stick. HWT's, Denelian, RFW and GDI all teach you to form letters very similar to cursive, just with out the loops. Mr. Potters argument about reversal problems with b's and d's and spacing problems because some letters are written from back to front are irrelevant unless you use ball and stick.

 

I think we should teach cursive, just not loopy cursive. Loopy cursive is not necessary. GDI, IMHO, is the most sensible type of cursive to teach. All you have to do is connect the letters. It is easy to read, faster to write and neater. You could easily use any method mentioned above to teach print and then switch to GDI cursive.