Help! Has anyone ever returned a dog to a breeder?

[katalaska]

We are and have been really struggling with our now 10-month-old puppy. Over the weekend we dog-sat a 6-year-old dog and it gave us perspective on just how bad our puppy is! We adopted her at 9 weeks from a reputable breeder, vaccinated her, took her to the dog park, enrolled her in puppy class, had her spayed, boarded her for two weeks, etc.

 

And she is still "bad." Yes, she knows several commands. But her behavior is just out of bounds. While we've had the dog here, she just will NOT leave him alone. She pesters him to no end. I think we've believed it was "just us"--that she was pushy with people and needed more training/structure/direction in her life. We do provide those things (I believe).

 

The dog we've been watching is so patient with her--beyond MY level of tolerance. She licks his mouth constantly, jumps on him, mounts him, chases him. Yesterday we watched the two of them together for an hour and it NEVER got better. Even when she was completely fatigued (he was panting but she was practically hyperventilating) and they were both lying down, if he moved even one muscle she was back up again and in his face.

 

He was giving her ALL the right signals--speaking to her in dog-language. He put his ears back, he showed his teeth, he growled, he barked, and finally he did put his teeth on her (with about as much force as if you were guiding your grandmother across the street). But his MESSAGE was clear--"Back of, young 'un."

 

She never got the message.

 

I have an animal behaviorist from the university (not cheap, but an act of desperation) coming in less than an hour.

 

I'm thinking we may have to return this puppy to the breeder. :confused:

 

Any BTDT experience/advice/help!?

[Murphy101]

be prepared to accept that the breeder may refuse to take the animal back.

 

so far, it sounds like the dog just doesn't fit your family and that's it's debatable whether you can claim that's a breeder problem after 8 months of ownership.

 

some of what you describe is very much common puppy behavior the 1st year to 18 months. basicly they are just toddlers at that age.

 

what is the breed?

what behavior are you expecting? No 10 mo dog is going to be a docile lap dog for at least half the day. they are basicly toddlers and if not given constructive outlets, they will regress to den behavior. is she going for daily walks and getting lots of daily exercise?

what was your reason for buying a puppy vs an older dog?

[RoughCollie]

I agree with Martha that this situation may be a function of your dog's age.

 

My dog was not mature until he was 2 years old. He was hard to deal with during those 2 years. For example, every morning I would come downstairs and he would have the kids "treed" along the top of the sofa. They could not get down because he would not let them. He was a nipper and we had to put clove oil on the kids shoes so they could walk without the dog trying to stop them.

 

He also got into everything, became a wizard at getting out of the house and leading the entire neighborhood of kids on a merry chase for a couple of hours, ate my glasses, my cell phone, and many books I was then currently reading, took everything he could get his mouth around outside, ate socks, ate shoes, opened wallets (originally in purses or way back on a tall table) and ate the cash inside and scattered credit cards and driver's licenses all over the place, chewed holes in pillows and made our foyer look like a chicken had exploded in there, and generally made a huge pest of himself.

 

If we had lived on a farm with some animals to herd, I don't think our dog would have been a big problem at all.

 

Despite all that, I loved him dearly then, and still do. He is no longer a *huge* pest, although he has his moments.

 

RC

[Heather in the Kootenays]

We were this dog's third home. It was already 4 years old. I got it as a rescue animal complete with papers - a very expensive, very neglected, very neurotic dog. We kept it for about a year and it was not fitting in at all. When going through the papers it came with, I found a contract with the original owner stating that the dog should never have been passed on but should have been returned to the breeder when the original owner realized they couldn't keep it. I emailed them explaining that I couldn't keep the dog and that because it was a very difficult dog, I really didn't want to pass it on to anyone else and felt I might have to have it put down. The breeder took the dog back and resettled it with an appropriate owner - no kids, no dogs, no activity. I hope that it did OK there but I sometimes wonder.

 

Anyway, they took it back right away. I had to pay to ship it but I was very willing to do that rather than have it put down. I believed that it could be a good dog if someone could devote lots of attention to it.

[Danestress]

My breeder would insist that if I got rid of a dog, I return it to him and let him replace it. He would want to know about these issues.

 

If the behaviorist can't help you and you can't keep the dog, I would contact the breeder and let him know, asking for help. It's very possible that a dog who is not suitable for family life for the reasons you outlined would be a great working dog. She might really need a job to do, and maybe he could place the dog in a more suitable situation.

[Jen500]

My breeder would insist that if I got rid of a dog, I return it to him and let him replace it. He would want to know about these issues.

 

If the behaviorist can't help you and you can't keep the dog, I would contact the breeder and let him know, asking for help. It's very possible that a dog who is not suitable for family life for the reasons you outlined would be a great working dog. She might really need a job to do, and maybe he could place the dog in a more suitable situation.

:iagree:

Our breeder was a lot of help when we adopted a dog and had some problems. She was very interested in having us keep the dog and give it a good home and be happy w/him. If it REALLY didn't work out, she would have taken the dog back. Ten months is still a puppy.

[Julie in CA]

She does much of what you describe. I really view that as pretty normal for puppies. They are a nuisance in so many ways, but they are still learning.

We still have some persistent problems with jumping and chewing (on us!) but that's normal. Our dog is high-energy, and we do our best to keep her tired out while she learns appropriate "manners". What I say about her is, "yeah, she's gonna be a nice dog, when she grows up!"

 

What we need is the Dog Whisperer to make house calls!

[Debbie in IL]

We returned a puppy to our breeder as well.

 

We had brought her home when she was 12 weeks old, and did all the training that you have mentioned. I know that much of her behavior was typical puppy behavior. However, it was just not a good fit for us. When we realized that she was changing the dynamic in our home, we decided that she needed to go back. Our breeder had insisted originally that if we had any problems, we would bring the puppy back to him and not to a shelter. We called him, explained the situation, and dh brought her back the next day.

 

It was awful to have to give her back - still brings tears to my eyes, and my kids still talk about her. But, we all know in our hearts that it was the right decision. We enjoy having a "peaceful" (most of the time!) home, and we believe that the puppy just wasn't right for our home. We recognize that this was definitely our problem, not the dog's! She was just a high-energy little puppy.

 

Happy ending...puppy ended up with an older couple, no kids, that just adore her.

 

And - breeder called us a year later to tell us that he had a 4 year old dog, same breed as earlier, who he would no longer be showing. He offered her to us at no cost...that was 4 years ago, and we just love Angel to pieces. Definitely, the right dog for our family.

 

Keep us posted, please - I hope everything works out well.

 

Deb

[Kris]

You are comparing a 10-month old puppy to a six year old dog -- that's not really "fair." ;)

 

She just sounds like a puppy to me. What breed is she?

 

That said, yes -- I have returned a dog to the breeder, but not after that period of time. We had a six month old Giant Schnauzer -- she was *gorgeous* but she was *not* the dog for us. I was in constant contact with the breeder for about a month, and then finally I returned her. It was heartbreaking, but she was literally eating the house -- the walls, the door jams -- and anything else in her path -- shoes, furniture, kitchen cabinets, clothes. We just weren't equipped to deal with her. She was smart as a whip, though, and obedience training her was a snap -- all the more disappointing that we couldn't find any "acceptable" chewies for her.

 

I know she would have outgrown the chewing, and probably fairly soon -- but not soon enough.

[Soph the vet]

Sounds like a pretty normal 10 month old dog to me, sorry.

Many reputable breeders will take a dog back no matter how long you have had them even for a mismatch situation as this sounds. I work with several breeders who have been known to take dogs back even after years if the fit is not right for the family. As far as any monetary settlement I am unsure how much you would get back, maybe nothing. I'll be curious to hear what the dog whisperer tells you.

[katalaska]

Thank you for your comments and support!

The dog behaviorist came and observed both dogs together and then my puppy alone.

The verdict is that we have a VERY anxious puppy. We've been doing a lot of the right things, even "all the right things." She said that our puppy's behavior is NOT normal.

My biggest concern was that our puppy is not responding appropriately to input from her own species. This is a real concern. It's one thing to not be responding super-well to a human (who can really mess things up and be confusing!) and quite another to not "get it" with a dog who is telling you to back off.

 

For those who asked, our puppy is a Standard Schnauzer who turns 10 months old tomorrow...we chose a puppy so that we could train her the way we wanted to train her as opposed to retraining an adult...we've done both before.

 

Anyway, the recommendation is to put her on the generic for Prozac and then to re-train, especially with tethering, and use food rewards to reinforce "calm" behavior. Our puppy is much better on lead (less frantic) than off. She NEVER lies down to rest unless crated--she's constantly on alert and the behaviorist characterized her as being "switched on" all the time.

 

The prognosis for improvement (recovery) is very good. It will be months of hard work (and at least four weeks before the medication starts to have an effect). Our puppy is smart and has learned lots of commands, routines, etc. and the fact that she is bonded to me are all positives. The fact that she is not aggressive about her food bowl and that she doesn't growl at us when she escalates her bad behavior are also positives.

 

We will get a written program and protocol from the behaviorist and she will fax the report to our veterinarian as well. Additionally, she is available for phone consultation for the next three months (included in the hefty fee I paid today).

 

So I am feeling much more hopeful. I haven't been in contact much with the breeder for several months. I've felt like such a failure...all the other puppies' reports on the website show the awards they've won (some are show dogs) and include photos of relaxed puppies hanging out with other dogs and people as well as reports of completed housebreaking (while our puppy still has fairly frequent "accidents"). I look at those pictures and read the reports and know our puppy doesn't measure up.

 

If we do the medication and the retraining and we still don't have a puppy who is calm some of the time (she NEVER sleeps or lies down unless crated) we may revisit the idea of returning her to the breeder. In our contract it states that we are not allowed to try to rehome the dog ourselves or put it in rescue; it must go back to the breeder. Up to a certain point we would get part of our money back but we really don't care about that--it's not about getting money back! It's more that if she isn't happy and we aren't happy with her then she will need to go elsewhere.

[rafiki]

.

[Mrs Mungo]

You are comparing a 10-month old puppy to a six year old dog -- that's not really "fair." ;)

 

:iagree:

[Carrie12345]

Kudos to you for even considering hiring an animal behaviorist, let alone actually doing it! Not many people bother to go the extra mile.

 

Lots of luck to you and your pooch!:)

[Jennifer3141]

Kudos to you for even considering hiring an animal behaviorist, let alone actually doing it! Not many people bother to go the extra mile.

 

Lots of luck to you and your pooch!:)

 

:iagree:

 

And I think it's marvelous that you are being so patient in trying to fix your relationship with your dog. What a marvelous thing for your kids to see!!!

 

Jen

[unsinkable]

Best wishes!

 

I want to print out your post to read when my 10 month old Jack Russell mix "acts up." (He basically rockets around the living room at top speed until we get him outside...that is the about the worst thing he does!)

[Alexandra]

He is lucky to have you in his corner. Not sure if anyone has suggested looking at some Cesar Millan videos...? CM suggests that most dogs do not get near enough exercise. He suggests 1 hour walking each day as a minimum. There are, however, certain ways to go about the walk that will help drain energy and establish you as the alpha. I would suggest you check it out. You sound like a very concientious pet owner and I wish you good luck.

[Heather in the Kootenays]

You sound like a wonderful dog person. I wish the people who had the dog I returned had been so responsible.

[st_claire]

Just wondering, it seems like you say he is calm when crated. Why not just keep him crated when you are not interested in paying attention to him?

[Frankie]

He is lucky to have you in his corner. Not sure if anyone has suggested looking at some Cesar Millan videos...? CM suggests that most dogs do not get near enough exercise. He suggests 1 hour walking each day as a minimum. There are, however, certain ways to go about the walk that will help drain energy and establish you as the alpha. I would suggest you check it out. You sound like a very concientious pet owner and I wish you good luck.

 

You would want to wait until the puppy is at least a year old before exercising that much or else get X-rays to see that the growth plates have closed. That much exercise for a puppy is not healthy.

 

Otherwise, I agree that dogs need good exercise and a job to do.

 

Frankie

[Elisabeth in IL]

Keep us informed on how your puppy does with the medicine and retraining. I'll be rooting for him.

[Kris]

My biggest concern was that our puppy is not responding appropriately to input from her own species. This is a real concern. It's one thing to not be responding super-well to a human (who can really mess things up and be confusing!) and quite another to not "get it" with a dog who is telling you to back off.

 

Kind of reminds me of my son . . . :D

 

Watching the nature shows, I was always amazed that the tiger cubs could get a growl or be brushed away by Mom and *they* took the hint -- "Now is *not* the time to be messing with Mom!" Not my kid, who takes it as a sign to move in for the kill! So much for opposable thumbs! :lol:

 

So I am feeling much more hopeful.

 

It must be a *such* a relief to know what your options are and to have a little help!

 

I haven't been in contact much with the breeder for several months. I've felt like such a failure...all the other puppies' reports on the website show the awards they've won (some are show dogs) and include photos of relaxed puppies hanging out with other dogs and people as well as reports of completed housebreaking (while our puppy still has fairly frequent "accidents"). I look at those pictures and read the reports and know our puppy doesn't measure up.

 

Were you planning to show her?

 

If we do the medication and the retraining and we still don't have a puppy who is calm some of the time (she NEVER sleeps or lies down unless crated) we may revisit the idea of returning her to the breeder.

 

No wonder you're so concerned! The poor thing must be exhausted -- not to mention you! How's her weight? She must eat constantly to keep up that kind of energy level!

 

In our contract it states that we are not allowed to try to rehome the dog ourselves or put it in rescue; it must go back to the breeder. Up to a certain point we would get part of our money back but we really don't care about that--it's not about getting money back! It's more that if she isn't happy and we aren't happy with her then she will need to go elsewhere.

 

A responsible breeder -- a responsible Mom. She's definitely got a lot going for her! If this doesn't work out, it certainly won't be for lack of considerable effort!

 

Good luck!